[14:08:49] #Yellow Paint: alright, well I guess while we wait I'll give a summary what this one'll be about
[14:09:38] #Yellow Paint: something that isn't covered too often in competitive mons is how you prepare, specifically in a forum tournament setting
[14:09:57] #Yellow Paint: where both players get almost a week of time to prep
[14:10:37] #Yellow Paint: the main part of prep is team choice/teambuilding
[14:11:07] #Yellow Paint: but it also involves learning about how your opponent plays, what kind of teams or sets they tend to use
[14:11:37] #Yellow Paint: especially relevant when public replays are available
[14:11:59] #Yellow Paint: it becomes a bit of chicken/rock/scissors if you try to counterteam but they counterteam the counterteam and so on
[14:12:31] #Yellow Paint: but prep is usually better than no prep at all, and can give you a big advantage in tournaments
[14:12:35] nizza30: thats mad complicated
[14:13:27] #Yellow Paint: btw, we won't be turning on modchat for now to let people join in on the conversation directly
[14:13:48] @tsyon✿: made in time
[14:13:51] #Yellow Paint: ayo
[14:15:28] Clastia: oh no modchat, interesting
[14:15:42] #Yellow Paint: so tsyon, have you had any tour sets recently you wanna cover?
[14:15:47] #Yellow Paint: or do you mind using yourself as an example
[14:15:52] #Yellow Paint: or if you have anything else you wanna say
[14:16:00] @quziel: honest my prep last week for NUPL
[14:16:11] @quziel: was fairly heavily based on teh scout
[14:16:26] #Yellow Paint: ah sweet
[14:17:15] #Yellow Paint: mind passing some links then?
[14:17:25] @quziel: er, asking for permission
[14:17:36] #Yellow Paint: oh ic
[14:17:42] @quziel: ok, got it
[14:17:51] @quziel: gimme 2 min to finish a game
[14:18:00] #Yellow Paint: no worries
[14:19:07] Clastia: im currently prepping for mix and mega, tho i think thats too obscure an example here tbh
[14:19:21] %lalaya ☾: it doesn't matter which tier you're prepping for
[14:19:36] Clastia: fair, just the method for it is a little off from my experience
[14:19:52] Clastia: well, not off, but rather just different
[14:21:12] @quziel: ok
[14:21:13] @quziel: so done
[14:21:21] @quziel: so I was playing chaitanya in gen6 NU
[14:21:44] @quziel: they have a fair few public replays, so I was able to use a few automated tools to get an idea of what they use
[14:21:57] @quziel: being 1) https://fulllifegames.com/Tools/ReplayScouter/ and 2) https://replaystats-eo.herokuapp.com/scouter/
[14:22:17] @quziel: these two basically do the same thing, with the difference that the former gives a visual view first, and the second gives a text view first
[14:22:31] @quziel: there's no real difference, just like, figured I'd make it clear both are an option
[14:23:13] @quziel: !show https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/835628507337719879/973769160582635550/unknown.png

full-size image
[14:23:20] @quziel: these are the teams they used last NUPL
[14:23:26] TheShowdownHoedown: Those look very balance-y
[14:23:29] @quziel: very
[14:23:42] @quziel: the second team is also the most used team in the tier
[14:24:09] @quziel: broadly here my main thing was ensuring I could play around xatu, and that my main breakers could bypass the common defensive core
[14:24:39] @quziel: this is also gen6 so like
[14:24:53] @quziel: I sorta ended up wanting to bring a specific pyroar set
[14:24:56] @quziel: !code
Pyroar @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Hyper Voice
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
[14:25:10] @quziel: because his fire-type answers were usually either very burn weak, or rather passive (clefairy)
[14:25:14] TheShowdownHoedown: This reminds me of that balance breaker smokomodo
[14:25:58] @quziel: again, cause his fire type answers if you look at the scout are either hariyama (burn crippled), rhydon (burn crippled), clefairy (taunt crippled), or archeops (burn crippled)
[14:26:22] @quziel: additionally, because of very high steelix usage I also wanted to run xatu to essentially prevent it from getting rocks
[14:27:04] @quziel: I actually ended up using a highly modified version of the second team in the end, which got a win in the end (they brought a team almost the opposite of the above though)
[14:27:29] #Yellow Paint: right, something to keep in mind is that scouting isn't always reliable
[14:27:47] #Yellow Paint: so you should make sure the team you bring is still solid even if it's targeting certain matchups
[14:27:51] @quziel: ye absolutely
[14:27:52] @quziel: its more like
[14:28:00] @quziel: try to identify a common theme you can abuse
[14:28:02] #Yellow Paint: but it's just good practice to say
[14:28:03] @quziel: and then just build something very solid around it
[14:28:12] #Yellow Paint: if your opp really likes bringing a certain offensive core
[14:28:23] #Yellow Paint: you should at the very least be prepared to face it
[14:28:30] @quziel: https://pokepast.es/d7e58d20b5ed3687
[14:28:33] @quziel: I ended up bringing this
[14:28:47] @quziel: which as ya can see is really just sorta a fat balance that is made to have a strong advantage into opposing balance
[14:29:26] TheShowdownHoedown: The Barbara helps right?
[14:29:30] @quziel: ye
[14:29:37] @quziel: when facing fatter balances, a trick user is honest great
[14:29:39] TheShowdownHoedown: LMFAO "The barbara"
[14:29:50] @quziel: cause it both helps you if they go off-type
[14:29:52] @quziel: and bring like HO
[14:30:02] @quziel: and also it basically guarantees a crippled mon if they do run a fat team
[14:30:30] TheShowdownHoedown: They also don't seem to handle Barb too well either right?
[14:30:37] @quziel: eh, vileplume eats it
[14:30:43] TheShowdownHoedown: Aside from Plume who u can lure in to click Switcheroo
[14:30:45] TheShowdownHoedown: oh
[14:30:46] @quziel: ye
[14:31:50] @quziel: also note the ice punch on yama which is basically
[14:32:03] @quziel: if the plume does get tricked I can force my way through it
[14:32:30] TheShowdownHoedown: Yea Plume looks like it has its hands full here
[14:32:33] TheShowdownHoedown: (opposing plume)
[14:33:23] #Yellow Paint: and barbaracle itself is meant to be your own fire answer right
[14:33:35] @quziel: its my secondary answer ye
[14:34:13] @quziel: yama is obvs the primary fire resist here, but having barb gives me more flexibility when playing
[14:34:33] @quziel: I'll hand over tyson to talk more general stuff
[14:34:41] @tsyon✿: sup
[14:35:44] @tsyon✿: so when it comes to tours and preparing teams obviously you wanna make them succesful and be able to handle your opponent
[14:36:20] @tsyon✿: but at the same time when you prepare for your team sometimes thinking outside the box can be the difference from what is considered "standard"
[14:36:39] @quziel: ye, one thing prep is great for
[14:36:40] @quziel: or like scouts
[14:36:40] #Yellow Paint: you should also not forget to practice with and test any teams you use
[14:36:45] @quziel: is making a lure
[14:36:58] @quziel: if you notice a very common defensive core, you can absolutely try to lure one member
[14:37:14] @tsyon✿: oh yeah testing is important especially if you are trying out something new cause you wanna see
[14:37:22] #Yellow Paint: yeah a lure set can be a downside if you never see the mon you're trying to lure
[14:37:26] @quziel: while tricky barb clef isn't really a lure anymore as its known, if you expect eg pex + tran based on the scout
[14:37:37] #Yellow Paint: but in tournaments you can control it a lot more
[14:38:10] @quziel: (generally try to target multiple mons in the scout with the lure)
[14:38:31] @tsyon✿: mhm bringing something that not only works but also handles what you would normally see from scouting
[14:38:53] @quziel: its also important to note that like
[14:38:57] @quziel: tricky barb clef is still like
[14:38:58] @quziel: clef
[14:39:15] @quziel: you're spending a slot and an item, but you can still do usual clef stuff
[14:39:28] @tsyon✿: same function but does a very specific thing to handle specific mons
[14:41:14] #Yellow Paint: anyways do you wanna try doing a live demo?
[14:41:17] @quziel: ye
[14:41:25] @quziel: who's a good "target" for SSOU
[14:41:48] @tsyon✿: as in person or mon
[14:41:55] @quziel: person
[14:41:58] @tsyon✿: ox
[14:42:02] @quziel: gucci
[14:42:17] @quziel: you know his main palying alts?
[14:42:27] @tsyon✿: i do not unfortunately
[14:42:33] @quziel: well
[14:42:36] @quziel: that's the first step
[14:42:45] @quziel: click on their profile, check their winposts/replays, and see what alts they play on
[14:43:11] @quziel: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-tour-season-33-playoffs.3701675/page-4#post-9215002
[14:43:15] @quziel: ok so this is their most recent winpost
[14:43:35] @quziel: they seem to play on main, so after getting hteir main playing alt, open your favorite auto-scouter
[14:43:42] @quziel: https://fulllifegames.com/Tools/ReplayScouter/?name=oxthefox&tier=gen8ou&opponent=&replays=
[14:44:23] #Yellow Paint: though be careful that many replays are private
[14:44:35] @quziel: absolutely, though you can still get a good sample if htey have enough public replays
[14:44:42] @quziel: !show https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778823236581982239/978005421338026094/unknown.png
[14:44:50] @quziel: ok so here's their last few replays
[14:45:16] #Yellow Paint: a lot of tran and lando here
[14:45:21] @tsyon✿: yeah
[14:45:28] @quziel: its also like generally offensive builds
[14:46:07] #Yellow Paint: yeah, only one stall comp
[14:46:59] #Yellow Paint: there's also the question of in what ways you'd want to beat them
[14:47:05] @quziel: fairly high HO usage as well
[14:47:19] #Yellow Paint: cause it might be a wall they can't break, or something they can't switch into
[14:47:31] @quziel: interesting thign is also their steels are also like
[14:47:39] @quziel: sorta more physdef focused in a lot of cases
[14:48:31] @quziel: also very high fini usage
[14:48:38] @quziel: so that sorta raises how do you prep into that
[14:48:47] #Yellow Paint: first thing to come to mind is kyurem but it's banned
[14:49:05] @quziel: volcanion could be solid?
[14:49:10] @tsyon✿: i was thinking of something like offensive zappy
[14:49:14] @tsyon✿: volcanion also works
[14:49:26] #Yellow Paint: is specs gengar a thing?
[14:49:36] @tsyon✿: there is specs blacephalon
[14:50:49] #Yellow Paint: volcanion seems like the most reasonable choice
[14:51:08] #Yellow Paint: though it's slow ofc and can't switch into too much
[14:51:10] @quziel: volcanion + HO punisher would be like
[14:51:15] @quziel: how I'd try to structure
[14:51:23] SHENIA: J
[14:51:24] #Yellow Paint: so you'd need to find ways to get it in
[14:52:30] Holy Crap Dude: Hi dudes/dudettes!
[14:53:45] #Yellow Paint: so anything else we might add?
[14:53:56] #Yellow Paint: a ground switchin seems necessary
[14:54:02] @tsyon✿: so weavile can work along with volcanion since they both compliment each other
[14:54:10] @tsyon✿: and also gives us that HO punisher
[14:54:12] +MajesticM: How is volc + band p jab weav
[14:54:43] @tsyon✿: i dont think pjab is mandatory mostly cause the things it hits volcanion beats already
[14:55:01] +MajesticM: Right volc does beat fini
[14:55:02] @quziel: do ya think we wanna run standard 4 attacks volc
[14:55:08] @quziel: specs, or like a lure set (eg sub, fire spin, etc)
[14:55:29] @quziel: shit could even run bpress to randomly lure blissey
[14:55:29] @tsyon✿: standard 4 attacks works
[14:55:40] @quziel: then just band weav
[14:55:54] #Yellow Paint: what's the fourth attack?
[14:56:13] @quziel: idt we need pjab super hard
[14:56:16] @quziel: cause volc abuses the hell out of fini
[14:56:23] #Yellow Paint: ah ep
[14:56:24] @quziel: could jsut low kick to abuse the melm usage?
[14:56:45] #Yellow Paint: low kick makes sense
[14:56:49] +MajesticM: Low kick makes sense to me
[14:56:52] @tsyon✿: ye
[14:56:52] #Yellow Paint: hits tran too
[14:56:58] @quziel: we can either like
[14:57:19] @quziel: add an explicit wincon now, or like focus on the defensive core atm
[14:57:23] @quziel: both are valid
[14:58:09] #Yellow Paint: what would a wincon be?
[14:58:25] @quziel: my instinct is like
[14:58:32] @tsyon✿: something that cleans late game
[14:58:34] #Yellow Paint: defensive core/pivots seems better to me so you can actually bring the attackers in
[14:58:35] @quziel: something that we can use to clean after volc + weav pressure fairy types
[14:58:43] #Yellow Paint: ah ok
[14:59:00] #Yellow Paint: urshi?
[14:59:19] #Yellow Paint: assuming pex answers are gotten as well
[14:59:34] @tsyon✿: something like dragapult comes to mind
[14:59:54] #Yellow Paint: that sounds better
[15:00:15] @tsyon✿: also has u turn to bring volcanion and weavile in safely on mons that try to check pult
[15:00:18] @quziel: I could also see like
[15:00:19] @quziel: just dd nite
[15:00:35] #Yellow Paint: also fits with the trend of the steels being low spdef
[15:01:54] @quziel: both approaches work
[15:01:56] @quziel: so we could just
[15:02:07] @quziel: fill out the defensive core and decide after we at least get half of it settled
[15:02:29] @tsyon✿: true
[15:02:44] #Yellow Paint: sure
[15:03:40] @quziel: ok
[15:03:44] @quziel: so lets refer back to the scout
[15:03:52] @quziel: !code
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778823236581982239/978005421338026094/unknown.png
[15:03:55] @quziel: !show https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778823236581982239/978005421338026094/unknown.png
[15:04:04] @quziel: what are some common trends in their offensive cores
[15:04:37] #Yellow Paint: there's a lot of heavy ground attackers plus weavile
[15:04:47] @tsyon✿: a lot of garchomp, cm clef with hazard stack
[15:04:55] @quziel: do you think this is like
[15:04:59] @quziel: one of the times where physdef lando makes sense
[15:05:03] @quziel: ik its fallen off a ton, but like
[15:05:11] #Yellow Paint: oh I was thinking corvi
[15:05:37] @quziel: that also works
[15:05:39] #Yellow Paint: but I guess there's a ton of fire usage too
[15:05:40] @quziel: probably better
[15:05:47] +MajesticM: Would be ground immune and can uturn to attackers too
[15:08:33] +MajesticM: Bit of a niche pick but
[15:08:39] +MajesticM: Thoughts on rotom w
[15:09:37] @quziel: corv's safe for now
[15:09:45] @quziel: esp given low zone usage
[15:10:40] @tsyon✿: corv also gives us an answer to kart, lele, and pult
[15:10:55] #Yellow Paint: ok, so corv for now
[15:11:05] #Yellow Paint: volcanion weav corvi
[15:11:21] #Yellow Paint: tran switchin?
[15:11:23] @tsyon✿: ideally next should be an elec immunity
[15:11:40] @tsyon✿: fittingly enough garchomp provides us elec immunity and a tran check
[15:11:52] #Yellow Paint: ah neat
[15:11:55] @quziel: ye
[15:11:57] @quziel: chomp feels nice
[15:12:08] @quziel: I think frankly we can justify both SD and rocks
[15:12:13] @quziel: or well SD and/or rocks
[15:12:29] #Yellow Paint: those 4 would rely a lot on volcanion to beat fini
[15:12:34] @quziel: ye
[15:12:40] @quziel: I think in that case we'd be forced to run a secondary fini check
[15:13:31] @tsyon✿: we could do ferro gives us a way for rain, fini check, and also provides spikes for volcanion and weav
[15:14:32] wlr carti: https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen8nationaldex-1580492184
[15:14:41] wlr carti: prob my best tourn gameplay plz rate
[15:16:16] @quziel: we could def do like
[15:16:21] @quziel: chomp + ferro + fast shit
[15:17:18] @tsyon✿: two mons come to mind are either dragapult or koko
[15:17:50] #Yellow Paint: you mentioned zap being good into him earlier, how does koko compare?
[15:18:07] @quziel: high lando usage, my main worry is jus tlike
[15:18:15] @quziel: our lando counterplay does sorta come down to like
[15:18:17] @quziel: u-turn with corv
[15:18:21] @quziel: which is def fine
[15:18:25] @tsyon✿: cause we aren't using standard koko we run nm koko
[15:19:02] @quziel: ye
[15:19:26] @tsyon✿: also has the benefit of hitting tran and freinds
[15:19:48] #Yellow Paint: that works, sounds more balanced than pult
[15:20:15] @tsyon✿: yeah it also gives us yet another mon to bring everything in safely
[15:20:33] #Yellow Paint: pult would've had me worried about opposing koko
[15:21:10] @tsyon✿: koko also checks the likes of torn-t
[15:21:11] @quziel: gucci
[15:21:26] @quziel: finally
[15:21:30] @quziel: y'all thinik knock press ferro?
[15:21:32] @quziel: given we have volc
[15:21:40] #Yellow Paint: so the mons are volcanion, weav, corvi, ferro, chomp, koko?
[15:22:31] @tsyon✿: hmm i say gyro/ iron head
[15:22:36] #Yellow Paint: only 1 tran switchin, and chomp doesn't have recovery
[15:23:00] @tsyon✿: volc is kinda tran switchin outside of ep
[15:24:16] #Yellow Paint: oh I guess it's nm koko too to help
[15:24:33] @quziel: and do we want like
[15:24:36] @quziel: sr chomp or like
[15:24:37] @quziel: sd chomp
[15:24:45] @quziel: I'm sorta partial to sd chomp just to finish off a game here
[15:24:48] @tsyon✿: ye even then half of these mons don't let tran in safely
[15:25:00] @tsyon✿: we could do sd sr chomp
[15:26:03] #Yellow Paint: sure, why not
[15:26:24] @quziel: ye I was just figuring that like
[15:26:26] @quziel: scale shot cleaning is nice
[15:26:30] @quziel: and SD SR shot feels off
[15:26:38] +MajesticM: Are we worried about shifu clicking cc on everything?
[15:27:10] #Yellow Paint: ah, there it is
[15:27:15] @tsyon✿: o right shifu
[15:27:23] #Yellow Paint: do we want something other than ferro then?
[15:27:30] #Yellow Paint: that beats urshi still
[15:27:39] @quziel: we could be fini user
[15:27:44] @quziel: or maybe not idk
[15:28:22] @tsyon✿: the most we can do is slowbro > ferro
[15:28:38] @tsyon✿: i dont think fini is an issue tbh
[15:28:47] #Yellow Paint: a ton of pressure put on chomp if that though
[15:29:08] #Yellow Paint: though I guess bro helps with tran too
[15:29:27] @tsyon✿: cause tran and fini cant really switch into half of these mons
[15:29:47] #Yellow Paint: koko can be the secondary fini check
[15:30:01] @quziel: bro over ferro makes sense, and then a bulkier chomp
[15:30:07] @quziel: though I think I'd argue for SD weav then?
[15:30:18] @tsyon✿: and then specs volc for more poweR?
[15:30:22] @quziel: ye, or like
[15:30:24] @quziel: fire spin?
[15:30:46] @tsyon✿: do we need to trap anything
[15:30:55] @quziel: pex ig?
[15:31:03] @quziel: but ye, specs makes sense
[15:31:09] @tsyon✿: hmm now with fs slowbro
[15:31:16] @tsyon✿: pex is less of an issue
[15:32:28] @quziel: my worry here just comes down to like
[15:32:31] @quziel: koko ig
[15:32:44] @quziel: we could def change chomp to lando
[15:32:52] @quziel: cause tran is less of an issue with bro to help
[15:32:58] #Yellow Paint: that makes sense
[15:33:09] @tsyon✿: bro and volc with lando-t would cover tran
[15:33:16] #Yellow Paint: and lando could carry defog to support non boots volc?
[15:33:23] @quziel: defog corv
[15:33:25] @quziel: no secondary rocker
[15:33:30] #Yellow Paint: ah ok
[15:33:43] @quziel: https://pokepast.es/e6bf983daec6e836
[15:33:47] @quziel: something like this?
[15:34:17] @tsyon✿: run this spread for lando-t
[15:34:27] @tsyon✿: !code
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- U-turn
[15:34:48] @tsyon✿: this makes it so your faster then other lando-t so you can toxic them before they u-turn out
[15:35:26] @tsyon✿: also slowbro should be colbur for weav
[15:38:18] #Yellow Paint: is that it then?
[15:38:35] @tsyon✿: wait let me do some finishing touches
[15:38:44] #Yellow Paint: ah gotcha
[15:38:58] #Yellow Paint: afterwards we can do a quick review compared to the scout
[15:40:14] @tsyon✿: ngl i think iron head or even bb would be better for corv here
[15:40:42] @tsyon✿: iron head does have the advnantage on hitting tales and other fairies from sitting on corv
[15:41:38] +AM: hello
[15:41:47] #Yellow Paint: sure that works
[15:41:48] @quziel: hello
[15:42:06] #Yellow Paint: especially because we focused on fini specifically rather than fairies
[15:42:10] @tsyon✿: https://pokepast.es/1ae5786894c94e63 something like this
[15:43:31] @tsyon✿: anything else or this is fine ?
[15:43:45] wlr carti: whats a good physical setup sweeper for ndou
[15:43:57] #Yellow Paint: not sure about helmet corv compared to lefties but everything else looks fine to me
[15:44:20] @tsyon✿: helmet corv is mostly there to punish u turners, kart, and most importantly weavile
[15:44:35] #Yellow Paint: ah gotcha
[15:44:59] @tsyon✿: well I guess that's the finalized team
[15:45:01] #Yellow Paint: weavile wlr carti
[15:45:03] #Yellow Paint: cool then
[15:45:10] wlr carti: its kinda slow for ndou
[15:45:14] #Yellow Paint: wanna review the scout?
[15:45:33] #Yellow Paint: !show https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778823236581982239/978005421338026094/unknown.png
[15:46:09] #Yellow Paint: any last comments on the team?
[15:46:46] @tsyon✿: nope
[15:47:02] #Yellow Paint: alright, that's it for today then
[15:47:09] #Yellow Paint: thanks for coming!
[15:47:14] @tsyon✿: very cool