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  1. [14:08:49] #Yellow Paint: alright, well I guess while we wait I'll give a summary what this one'll be about
  2. [14:09:38] #Yellow Paint: something that isn't covered too often in competitive mons is how you prepare, specifically in a forum tournament setting
  3. [14:09:57] #Yellow Paint: where both players get almost a week of time to prep
  4. [14:10:37] #Yellow Paint: the main part of prep is team choice/teambuilding
  5. [14:11:07] #Yellow Paint: but it also involves learning about how your opponent plays, what kind of teams or sets they tend to use
  6. [14:11:37] #Yellow Paint: especially relevant when public replays are available
  7. [14:11:59] #Yellow Paint: it becomes a bit of chicken/rock/scissors if you try to counterteam but they counterteam the counterteam and so on
  8. [14:12:31] #Yellow Paint: but prep is usually better than no prep at all, and can give you a big advantage in tournaments
  9. [14:12:35] nizza30: thats mad complicated
  10. [14:13:27] #Yellow Paint: btw, we won't be turning on modchat for now to let people join in on the conversation directly
  11. [14:13:48] @tsyon✿: made in time
  12. [14:13:51] #Yellow Paint: ayo
  13. [14:15:28] Clastia: oh no modchat, interesting
  14. [14:15:42] #Yellow Paint: so tsyon, have you had any tour sets recently you wanna cover?
  15. [14:15:47] #Yellow Paint: or do you mind using yourself as an example
  16. [14:15:52] #Yellow Paint: or if you have anything else you wanna say
  17. [14:16:00] @quziel: honest my prep last week for NUPL
  18. [14:16:11] @quziel: was fairly heavily based on teh scout
  19. [14:16:26] #Yellow Paint: ah sweet
  20. [14:17:15] #Yellow Paint: mind passing some links then?
  21. [14:17:25] @quziel: er, asking for permission
  22. [14:17:36] #Yellow Paint: oh ic
  23. [14:17:42] @quziel: ok, got it
  24. [14:17:51] @quziel: gimme 2 min to finish a game
  25. [14:18:00] #Yellow Paint: no worries
  26. [14:19:07] Clastia: im currently prepping for mix and mega, tho i think thats too obscure an example here tbh
  27. [14:19:21] %lalaya ☾: it doesn't matter which tier you're prepping for
  28. [14:19:36] Clastia: fair, just the method for it is a little off from my experience
  29. [14:19:52] Clastia: well, not off, but rather just different
  30. [14:21:12] @quziel: ok
  31. [14:21:13] @quziel: so done
  32. [14:21:21] @quziel: so I was playing chaitanya in gen6 NU
  33. [14:21:44] @quziel: they have a fair few public replays, so I was able to use a few automated tools to get an idea of what they use
  34. [14:21:57] @quziel: being 1) and 2)
  35. [14:22:17] @quziel: these two basically do the same thing, with the difference that the former gives a visual view first, and the second gives a text view first
  36. [14:22:31] @quziel: there's no real difference, just like, figured I'd make it clear both are an option
  37. [14:23:13] @quziel: !show
  39. full-size image
  40. [14:23:20] @quziel: these are the teams they used last NUPL
  41. [14:23:26] TheShowdownHoedown: Those look very balance-y
  42. [14:23:29] @quziel: very
  43. [14:23:42] @quziel: the second team is also the most used team in the tier
  44. [14:24:09] @quziel: broadly here my main thing was ensuring I could play around xatu, and that my main breakers could bypass the common defensive core
  45. [14:24:39] @quziel: this is also gen6 so like
  46. [14:24:53] @quziel: I sorta ended up wanting to bring a specific pyroar set
  47. [14:24:56] @quziel: !code
  48. Pyroar @ Silk Scarf
  49. Ability: Unnerve
  50. EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
  51. Timid Nature
  52. IVs: 0 Atk
  53. - Fire Blast
  54. - Hyper Voice
  55. - Taunt
  56. - Will-O-Wisp
  57. [14:25:10] @quziel: because his fire-type answers were usually either very burn weak, or rather passive (clefairy)
  58. [14:25:14] TheShowdownHoedown: This reminds me of that balance breaker smokomodo
  59. [14:25:58] @quziel: again, cause his fire type answers if you look at the scout are either hariyama (burn crippled), rhydon (burn crippled), clefairy (taunt crippled), or archeops (burn crippled)
  60. [14:26:22] @quziel: additionally, because of very high steelix usage I also wanted to run xatu to essentially prevent it from getting rocks
  61. [14:27:04] @quziel: I actually ended up using a highly modified version of the second team in the end, which got a win in the end (they brought a team almost the opposite of the above though)
  62. [14:27:29] #Yellow Paint: right, something to keep in mind is that scouting isn't always reliable
  63. [14:27:47] #Yellow Paint: so you should make sure the team you bring is still solid even if it's targeting certain matchups
  64. [14:27:51] @quziel: ye absolutely
  65. [14:27:52] @quziel: its more like
  66. [14:28:00] @quziel: try to identify a common theme you can abuse
  67. [14:28:02] #Yellow Paint: but it's just good practice to say
  68. [14:28:03] @quziel: and then just build something very solid around it
  69. [14:28:12] #Yellow Paint: if your opp really likes bringing a certain offensive core
  70. [14:28:23] #Yellow Paint: you should at the very least be prepared to face it
  71. [14:28:30] @quziel:
  72. [14:28:33] @quziel: I ended up bringing this
  73. [14:28:47] @quziel: which as ya can see is really just sorta a fat balance that is made to have a strong advantage into opposing balance
  74. [14:29:26] TheShowdownHoedown: The Barbara helps right?
  75. [14:29:30] @quziel: ye
  76. [14:29:37] @quziel: when facing fatter balances, a trick user is honest great
  77. [14:29:39] TheShowdownHoedown: LMFAO "The barbara"
  78. [14:29:50] @quziel: cause it both helps you if they go off-type
  79. [14:29:52] @quziel: and bring like HO
  80. [14:30:02] @quziel: and also it basically guarantees a crippled mon if they do run a fat team
  81. [14:30:30] TheShowdownHoedown: They also don't seem to handle Barb too well either right?
  82. [14:30:37] @quziel: eh, vileplume eats it
  83. [14:30:43] TheShowdownHoedown: Aside from Plume who u can lure in to click Switcheroo
  84. [14:30:45] TheShowdownHoedown: oh
  85. [14:30:46] @quziel: ye
  86. [14:31:50] @quziel: also note the ice punch on yama which is basically
  87. [14:32:03] @quziel: if the plume does get tricked I can force my way through it
  88. [14:32:30] TheShowdownHoedown: Yea Plume looks like it has its hands full here
  89. [14:32:33] TheShowdownHoedown: (opposing plume)
  90. [14:33:23] #Yellow Paint: and barbaracle itself is meant to be your own fire answer right
  91. [14:33:35] @quziel: its my secondary answer ye
  92. [14:34:13] @quziel: yama is obvs the primary fire resist here, but having barb gives me more flexibility when playing
  93. [14:34:33] @quziel: I'll hand over tyson to talk more general stuff
  94. [14:34:41] @tsyon✿: sup
  95. [14:35:44] @tsyon✿: so when it comes to tours and preparing teams obviously you wanna make them succesful and be able to handle your opponent
  96. [14:36:20] @tsyon✿: but at the same time when you prepare for your team sometimes thinking outside the box can be the difference from what is considered "standard"
  97. [14:36:39] @quziel: ye, one thing prep is great for
  98. [14:36:40] @quziel: or like scouts
  99. [14:36:40] #Yellow Paint: you should also not forget to practice with and test any teams you use
  100. [14:36:45] @quziel: is making a lure
  101. [14:36:58] @quziel: if you notice a very common defensive core, you can absolutely try to lure one member
  102. [14:37:14] @tsyon✿: oh yeah testing is important especially if you are trying out something new cause you wanna see
  103. [14:37:22] #Yellow Paint: yeah a lure set can be a downside if you never see the mon you're trying to lure
  104. [14:37:26] @quziel: while tricky barb clef isn't really a lure anymore as its known, if you expect eg pex + tran based on the scout
  105. [14:37:37] #Yellow Paint: but in tournaments you can control it a lot more
  106. [14:38:10] @quziel: (generally try to target multiple mons in the scout with the lure)
  107. [14:38:31] @tsyon✿: mhm bringing something that not only works but also handles what you would normally see from scouting
  108. [14:38:53] @quziel: its also important to note that like
  109. [14:38:57] @quziel: tricky barb clef is still like
  110. [14:38:58] @quziel: clef
  111. [14:39:15] @quziel: you're spending a slot and an item, but you can still do usual clef stuff
  112. [14:39:28] @tsyon✿: same function but does a very specific thing to handle specific mons
  113. [14:41:14] #Yellow Paint: anyways do you wanna try doing a live demo?
  114. [14:41:17] @quziel: ye
  115. [14:41:25] @quziel: who's a good "target" for SSOU
  116. [14:41:48] @tsyon✿: as in person or mon
  117. [14:41:55] @quziel: person
  118. [14:41:58] @tsyon✿: ox
  119. [14:42:02] @quziel: gucci
  120. [14:42:17] @quziel: you know his main palying alts?
  121. [14:42:27] @tsyon✿: i do not unfortunately
  122. [14:42:33] @quziel: well
  123. [14:42:36] @quziel: that's the first step
  124. [14:42:45] @quziel: click on their profile, check their winposts/replays, and see what alts they play on
  125. [14:43:11] @quziel:
  126. [14:43:15] @quziel: ok so this is their most recent winpost
  127. [14:43:35] @quziel: they seem to play on main, so after getting hteir main playing alt, open your favorite auto-scouter
  128. [14:43:42] @quziel:
  129. [14:44:23] #Yellow Paint: though be careful that many replays are private
  130. [14:44:35] @quziel: absolutely, though you can still get a good sample if htey have enough public replays
  131. [14:44:42] @quziel: !show
  132. [14:44:50] @quziel: ok so here's their last few replays
  133. [14:45:16] #Yellow Paint: a lot of tran and lando here
  134. [14:45:21] @tsyon✿: yeah
  135. [14:45:28] @quziel: its also like generally offensive builds
  136. [14:46:07] #Yellow Paint: yeah, only one stall comp
  137. [14:46:59] #Yellow Paint: there's also the question of in what ways you'd want to beat them
  138. [14:47:05] @quziel: fairly high HO usage as well
  139. [14:47:19] #Yellow Paint: cause it might be a wall they can't break, or something they can't switch into
  140. [14:47:31] @quziel: interesting thign is also their steels are also like
  141. [14:47:39] @quziel: sorta more physdef focused in a lot of cases
  142. [14:48:31] @quziel: also very high fini usage
  143. [14:48:38] @quziel: so that sorta raises how do you prep into that
  144. [14:48:47] #Yellow Paint: first thing to come to mind is kyurem but it's banned
  145. [14:49:05] @quziel: volcanion could be solid?
  146. [14:49:10] @tsyon✿: i was thinking of something like offensive zappy
  147. [14:49:14] @tsyon✿: volcanion also works
  148. [14:49:26] #Yellow Paint: is specs gengar a thing?
  149. [14:49:36] @tsyon✿: there is specs blacephalon
  150. [14:50:49] #Yellow Paint: volcanion seems like the most reasonable choice
  151. [14:51:08] #Yellow Paint: though it's slow ofc and can't switch into too much
  152. [14:51:10] @quziel: volcanion + HO punisher would be like
  153. [14:51:15] @quziel: how I'd try to structure
  154. [14:51:23] SHENIA: J
  155. [14:51:24] #Yellow Paint: so you'd need to find ways to get it in
  156. [14:52:30] Holy Crap Dude: Hi dudes/dudettes!
  157. [14:53:45] #Yellow Paint: so anything else we might add?
  158. [14:53:56] #Yellow Paint: a ground switchin seems necessary
  159. [14:54:02] @tsyon✿: so weavile can work along with volcanion since they both compliment each other
  160. [14:54:10] @tsyon✿: and also gives us that HO punisher
  161. [14:54:12] +MajesticM: How is volc + band p jab weav
  162. [14:54:43] @tsyon✿: i dont think pjab is mandatory mostly cause the things it hits volcanion beats already
  163. [14:55:01] +MajesticM: Right volc does beat fini
  164. [14:55:02] @quziel: do ya think we wanna run standard 4 attacks volc
  165. [14:55:08] @quziel: specs, or like a lure set (eg sub, fire spin, etc)
  166. [14:55:29] @quziel: shit could even run bpress to randomly lure blissey
  167. [14:55:29] @tsyon✿: standard 4 attacks works
  168. [14:55:40] @quziel: then just band weav
  169. [14:55:54] #Yellow Paint: what's the fourth attack?
  170. [14:56:13] @quziel: idt we need pjab super hard
  171. [14:56:16] @quziel: cause volc abuses the hell out of fini
  172. [14:56:23] #Yellow Paint: ah ep
  173. [14:56:24] @quziel: could jsut low kick to abuse the melm usage?
  174. [14:56:45] #Yellow Paint: low kick makes sense
  175. [14:56:49] +MajesticM: Low kick makes sense to me
  176. [14:56:52] @tsyon✿: ye
  177. [14:56:52] #Yellow Paint: hits tran too
  178. [14:56:58] @quziel: we can either like
  179. [14:57:19] @quziel: add an explicit wincon now, or like focus on the defensive core atm
  180. [14:57:23] @quziel: both are valid
  181. [14:58:09] #Yellow Paint: what would a wincon be?
  182. [14:58:25] @quziel: my instinct is like
  183. [14:58:32] @tsyon✿: something that cleans late game
  184. [14:58:34] #Yellow Paint: defensive core/pivots seems better to me so you can actually bring the attackers in
  185. [14:58:35] @quziel: something that we can use to clean after volc + weav pressure fairy types
  186. [14:58:43] #Yellow Paint: ah ok
  187. [14:59:00] #Yellow Paint: urshi?
  188. [14:59:19] #Yellow Paint: assuming pex answers are gotten as well
  189. [14:59:34] @tsyon✿: something like dragapult comes to mind
  190. [14:59:54] #Yellow Paint: that sounds better
  191. [15:00:15] @tsyon✿: also has u turn to bring volcanion and weavile in safely on mons that try to check pult
  192. [15:00:18] @quziel: I could also see like
  193. [15:00:19] @quziel: just dd nite
  194. [15:00:35] #Yellow Paint: also fits with the trend of the steels being low spdef
  195. [15:01:54] @quziel: both approaches work
  196. [15:01:56] @quziel: so we could just
  197. [15:02:07] @quziel: fill out the defensive core and decide after we at least get half of it settled
  198. [15:02:29] @tsyon✿: true
  199. [15:02:44] #Yellow Paint: sure
  200. [15:03:40] @quziel: ok
  201. [15:03:44] @quziel: so lets refer back to the scout
  202. [15:03:52] @quziel: !code
  204. [15:03:55] @quziel: !show
  205. [15:04:04] @quziel: what are some common trends in their offensive cores
  206. [15:04:37] #Yellow Paint: there's a lot of heavy ground attackers plus weavile
  207. [15:04:47] @tsyon✿: a lot of garchomp, cm clef with hazard stack
  208. [15:04:55] @quziel: do you think this is like
  209. [15:04:59] @quziel: one of the times where physdef lando makes sense
  210. [15:05:03] @quziel: ik its fallen off a ton, but like
  211. [15:05:11] #Yellow Paint: oh I was thinking corvi
  212. [15:05:37] @quziel: that also works
  213. [15:05:39] #Yellow Paint: but I guess there's a ton of fire usage too
  214. [15:05:40] @quziel: probably better
  215. [15:05:47] +MajesticM: Would be ground immune and can uturn to attackers too
  216. [15:08:33] +MajesticM: Bit of a niche pick but
  217. [15:08:39] +MajesticM: Thoughts on rotom w
  218. [15:09:37] @quziel: corv's safe for now
  219. [15:09:45] @quziel: esp given low zone usage
  220. [15:10:40] @tsyon✿: corv also gives us an answer to kart, lele, and pult
  221. [15:10:55] #Yellow Paint: ok, so corv for now
  222. [15:11:05] #Yellow Paint: volcanion weav corvi
  223. [15:11:21] #Yellow Paint: tran switchin?
  224. [15:11:23] @tsyon✿: ideally next should be an elec immunity
  225. [15:11:40] @tsyon✿: fittingly enough garchomp provides us elec immunity and a tran check
  226. [15:11:52] #Yellow Paint: ah neat
  227. [15:11:55] @quziel: ye
  228. [15:11:57] @quziel: chomp feels nice
  229. [15:12:08] @quziel: I think frankly we can justify both SD and rocks
  230. [15:12:13] @quziel: or well SD and/or rocks
  231. [15:12:29] #Yellow Paint: those 4 would rely a lot on volcanion to beat fini
  232. [15:12:34] @quziel: ye
  233. [15:12:40] @quziel: I think in that case we'd be forced to run a secondary fini check
  234. [15:13:31] @tsyon✿: we could do ferro gives us a way for rain, fini check, and also provides spikes for volcanion and weav
  235. [15:14:32] wlr carti:
  236. [15:14:41] wlr carti: prob my best tourn gameplay plz rate
  237. [15:16:16] @quziel: we could def do like
  238. [15:16:21] @quziel: chomp + ferro + fast shit
  239. [15:17:18] @tsyon✿: two mons come to mind are either dragapult or koko
  240. [15:17:50] #Yellow Paint: you mentioned zap being good into him earlier, how does koko compare?
  241. [15:18:07] @quziel: high lando usage, my main worry is jus tlike
  242. [15:18:15] @quziel: our lando counterplay does sorta come down to like
  243. [15:18:17] @quziel: u-turn with corv
  244. [15:18:21] @quziel: which is def fine
  245. [15:18:25] @tsyon✿: cause we aren't using standard koko we run nm koko
  246. [15:19:02] @quziel: ye
  247. [15:19:26] @tsyon✿: also has the benefit of hitting tran and freinds
  248. [15:19:48] #Yellow Paint: that works, sounds more balanced than pult
  249. [15:20:15] @tsyon✿: yeah it also gives us yet another mon to bring everything in safely
  250. [15:20:33] #Yellow Paint: pult would've had me worried about opposing koko
  251. [15:21:10] @tsyon✿: koko also checks the likes of torn-t
  252. [15:21:11] @quziel: gucci
  253. [15:21:26] @quziel: finally
  254. [15:21:30] @quziel: y'all thinik knock press ferro?
  255. [15:21:32] @quziel: given we have volc
  256. [15:21:40] #Yellow Paint: so the mons are volcanion, weav, corvi, ferro, chomp, koko?
  257. [15:22:31] @tsyon✿: hmm i say gyro/ iron head
  258. [15:22:36] #Yellow Paint: only 1 tran switchin, and chomp doesn't have recovery
  259. [15:23:00] @tsyon✿: volc is kinda tran switchin outside of ep
  260. [15:24:16] #Yellow Paint: oh I guess it's nm koko too to help
  261. [15:24:33] @quziel: and do we want like
  262. [15:24:36] @quziel: sr chomp or like
  263. [15:24:37] @quziel: sd chomp
  264. [15:24:45] @quziel: I'm sorta partial to sd chomp just to finish off a game here
  265. [15:24:48] @tsyon✿: ye even then half of these mons don't let tran in safely
  266. [15:25:00] @tsyon✿: we could do sd sr chomp
  267. [15:26:03] #Yellow Paint: sure, why not
  268. [15:26:24] @quziel: ye I was just figuring that like
  269. [15:26:26] @quziel: scale shot cleaning is nice
  270. [15:26:30] @quziel: and SD SR shot feels off
  271. [15:26:38] +MajesticM: Are we worried about shifu clicking cc on everything?
  272. [15:27:10] #Yellow Paint: ah, there it is
  273. [15:27:15] @tsyon✿: o right shifu
  274. [15:27:23] #Yellow Paint: do we want something other than ferro then?
  275. [15:27:30] #Yellow Paint: that beats urshi still
  276. [15:27:39] @quziel: we could be fini user
  277. [15:27:44] @quziel: or maybe not idk
  278. [15:28:22] @tsyon✿: the most we can do is slowbro > ferro
  279. [15:28:38] @tsyon✿: i dont think fini is an issue tbh
  280. [15:28:47] #Yellow Paint: a ton of pressure put on chomp if that though
  281. [15:29:08] #Yellow Paint: though I guess bro helps with tran too
  282. [15:29:27] @tsyon✿: cause tran and fini cant really switch into half of these mons
  283. [15:29:47] #Yellow Paint: koko can be the secondary fini check
  284. [15:30:01] @quziel: bro over ferro makes sense, and then a bulkier chomp
  285. [15:30:07] @quziel: though I think I'd argue for SD weav then?
  286. [15:30:18] @tsyon✿: and then specs volc for more poweR?
  287. [15:30:22] @quziel: ye, or like
  288. [15:30:24] @quziel: fire spin?
  289. [15:30:46] @tsyon✿: do we need to trap anything
  290. [15:30:55] @quziel: pex ig?
  291. [15:31:03] @quziel: but ye, specs makes sense
  292. [15:31:09] @tsyon✿: hmm now with fs slowbro
  293. [15:31:16] @tsyon✿: pex is less of an issue
  294. [15:32:28] @quziel: my worry here just comes down to like
  295. [15:32:31] @quziel: koko ig
  296. [15:32:44] @quziel: we could def change chomp to lando
  297. [15:32:52] @quziel: cause tran is less of an issue with bro to help
  298. [15:32:58] #Yellow Paint: that makes sense
  299. [15:33:09] @tsyon✿: bro and volc with lando-t would cover tran
  300. [15:33:16] #Yellow Paint: and lando could carry defog to support non boots volc?
  301. [15:33:23] @quziel: defog corv
  302. [15:33:25] @quziel: no secondary rocker
  303. [15:33:30] #Yellow Paint: ah ok
  304. [15:33:43] @quziel:
  305. [15:33:47] @quziel: something like this?
  306. [15:34:17] @tsyon✿: run this spread for lando-t
  307. [15:34:27] @tsyon✿: !code
  308. Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
  309. Ability: Intimidate
  310. EVs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spe
  311. Careful Nature
  312. - Stealth Rock
  313. - Earthquake
  314. - Toxic
  315. - U-turn
  316. [15:34:48] @tsyon✿: this makes it so your faster then other lando-t so you can toxic them before they u-turn out
  317. [15:35:26] @tsyon✿: also slowbro should be colbur for weav
  318. [15:38:18] #Yellow Paint: is that it then?
  319. [15:38:35] @tsyon✿: wait let me do some finishing touches
  320. [15:38:44] #Yellow Paint: ah gotcha
  321. [15:38:58] #Yellow Paint: afterwards we can do a quick review compared to the scout
  322. [15:40:14] @tsyon✿: ngl i think iron head or even bb would be better for corv here
  323. [15:40:42] @tsyon✿: iron head does have the advnantage on hitting tales and other fairies from sitting on corv
  324. [15:41:38] +AM: hello
  325. [15:41:47] #Yellow Paint: sure that works
  326. [15:41:48] @quziel: hello
  327. [15:42:06] #Yellow Paint: especially because we focused on fini specifically rather than fairies
  328. [15:42:10] @tsyon✿: something like this
  329. [15:43:31] @tsyon✿: anything else or this is fine ?
  330. [15:43:45] wlr carti: whats a good physical setup sweeper for ndou
  331. [15:43:57] #Yellow Paint: not sure about helmet corv compared to lefties but everything else looks fine to me
  332. [15:44:20] @tsyon✿: helmet corv is mostly there to punish u turners, kart, and most importantly weavile
  333. [15:44:35] #Yellow Paint: ah gotcha
  334. [15:44:59] @tsyon✿: well I guess that's the finalized team
  335. [15:45:01] #Yellow Paint: weavile wlr carti
  336. [15:45:03] #Yellow Paint: cool then
  337. [15:45:10] wlr carti: its kinda slow for ndou
  338. [15:45:14] #Yellow Paint: wanna review the scout?
  339. [15:45:33] #Yellow Paint: !show
  340. [15:46:09] #Yellow Paint: any last comments on the team?
  341. [15:46:46] @tsyon✿: nope
  342. [15:47:02] #Yellow Paint: alright, that's it for today then
  343. [15:47:09] #Yellow Paint: thanks for coming!
  344. [15:47:14] @tsyon✿: very cool
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