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Yesterday, 12:38 PM #1
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Scrim Bans

Are Scrim bans actually supposed to be only on scrim only? If so, why?

I looked into the threads yesterday before making a ban on Ayjin (who rage quit because @Extreme Potatoes team was kicking his ass) and the part that vaguely says anything like that is one the the last sentences of the server notice thread. If it's true that we only want people banning just on Scrim only then I think it's probably best to make it obvious by putting it in the rules or FAQ as one of the very first things so that other admins don't make the same mistake. Albeit- the edgy asshole was on a tight rope and needed the global permnanant ban, but I figure fixing up the protocol would be a good idea.

On a side note, how do we ban only off of the scrim server? If we ban them regularly without entering it in SourceBans does it not ban them off of the other servers, or is it automated?

Tagging @Black Rain as I figure she can answer this.
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Yes, they're scrim only as of now. When XeNo revived this server for CS:GO, he told me that back in CS:S that players that were blocked from that server only if people were leaving without reason. It wasn't much of a problem back then as it is now. I'm pretty sure I clarified it in a Scrim thread to people that admins will need to contact an AO+ to issue a scrim-only ban. I did that for Ayjin last night when Potatoes messaged me about it so that why I lifted that perm. He said that he had to leave to scrim with his main team, because he does have a Main team on ESEA that he practices every night, but doesn't excuse that I won't block him from the server without getting a sub to replace him when he left.

Also, I added a plugin a month or two ago that bans disconnected players from the server if they dont rejoin back in 3 minutes (similar to MM), which was to make it easier for admins to not worry about applying punishment since the server would automatically ban them locally. I did reconsider changing the ban protocol to be for SB, but when I found this plugin I thought this would have been a much easier way to handle the issue. I'll look into seeing if the plugin still works and if it doesn't then I'll ask some coders to help tweak it up and test it again.
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@Black Rain

Thank you for the answer.

I did look over all of the threads and it did only say it once in a extremely ambiguous way. If this is one of the age old things we've been doing for a long time I don't know why I'm just hearing about it now. I've seen lots of bans by admins in the past relating to this exact thing so when I see Ayjin is your friend I can't help but feel a bit concerned about the situation. I'm just trying to get fair enforcement across the board, if this was something added recently that is fair enough but we should make it crystal clear. If you're willing to add that to the Rules or FAQ for the server it would make the admins jobs a lot easier in terms of knowing how to enforce or not enforce if we need higherups to give out the bans instead. I didn't know there was an automated system but I didn't ban him until atleast 5 minutes after he left and I didn't see anything pop up in chat that he was banned.

On a sidenote.

The fact that he just came off a permanent ban and exactly a month later is being an assclown by leaving in the middle of scrim & asking for the ban when I was courteous enough to ask him why he left is reason enough to not want to deal with him. If he had just said "Hey guys I got another team I gotta go play for, All Ts you wanna sub in?, I would of been perfectly happy to- I ended up annoyingly subbing in either way cause I didn't want to see the game get fucked up. I was a major advocate for Ayjin wayyyy before he was unbanned because I think that XeNo and his posse treated many situations extremely unfairly & I don't/didn't trust the pixie dust evidence they had on him. This guy acts like a snotty 12 yr old in the few times I've had to deal with him on any of our servers- including ones that aren't Scrim. It confuses me as to why on Scrim we dedicate the bans to just that singular server when on all the other servers we do not and the exact outcome of this in my opinion is going to be people like this kid Ayjin who spit in our face cause he knows he can likely get away with it. I think it's a bad way to handle administrating and I'd even argue that the fact we have global bans set across all our servers historically that mindset would be agreed with. At the very least I highly suggest not allowing him on the scrim server, if he wanted to warm-up for another game he could of done that without being a snotty asshole.
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He literally asked for a ban after being just off a perm. Setting him back to a perm pending a BD discussion.

This is an extremely rare scenario where common sense can dictate a slight deviation in the 'norm'.
Last edited by Caution; Yesterday at 02:02 PM.
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Yesterday, 05:26 PM #5
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I've always dished out bans this way since XeNo and I made the server. Anyone that usually comes to me about a person leaving mid-game, rage-quitting, or such without grabbing a sub or has a real problem like lagging out, I usually just ask for the Steam ID or grab it myself and ban them off the server for a temporary time. When Extreme Potatoes told me he raged quit the game then I told him I'll just ban him myself from the server so I went on ftp and threw his Steam ID on the ban list. A few hours later I logged on SB to do something and saw you permed him, which is why I ended up unbanning him since I already blocked him off the server. It's just something I've always done when it came to this server.

I can't find the thread which I posted about contacting any AO+ for manual bans but I'll clarify it in the FAQ and Scrim Rules stickied threads too. Punky also recently tweaked the the MatchBan plugin that I added a while ago so it should be working properly again.
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Yesterday, 06:21 PM #6
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Just to clarify, I didn't perm him- I went to multiple higher ups to get help (you were offline on Steam at the time) and Delirium increased it after I asked him about it.

Appreciate you making it more clear though, thanks.
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@Black Rain

I'm still kind of confused why we're relying on a plugin rather than letting admins our admins y'know.. administrate, here is a glaring example of a problem that a plugin cannot handle- but given the power to an admin can (it's also a typo/contradiction you should fix). If we want to use the plugin that's fair enough, it's the way it's handled competitive blah blah blah but we should probably clarify whether if it bans someone who had to do something are we gonna unban them or is it non-negotiable.

To clarify I'm not saying the bans should carry over server to server (thats a whole separate point I'll make), but I'm saying that the plugin is going to ban people irregardless what the reason they left was- where as before it wasn't as such. I'd also like to know why Scrim is any different then our other servers in terms of lighter punishments (besides "its always been that way"), because I genuinely think it encourages people to act like assholes knowing the punishment and likelihood of a punishment is low. If we're going to keep the auto-ban system we should make it more clear in that thread that there is NO EXCEPTIONS to the bans, and we should give our admins the ability to hand out punishments by themselves without running all of the bans through one person who has to manually put them all through.
Last edited by All Ts; Yesterday at 07:18 PM.
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 Quote Originally Posted by All Ts  View Post
@Black Rain

I'm still kind of confused why we're relying on a plugin rather than letting admins our admins y'know.. administrate, here is a glaring example of a problem that a plugin cannot handle- but given the power to an admin can (it's also a typo/contradiction you should fix). If we want to use the plugin that's fair enough, it's the way it's handled competitive blah blah blah but we should probably clarify whether if it bans someone who had to do something are we gonna unban them or is it non-negotiable.

To clarify I'm not saying the bans should carry over server to server (thats a whole separate point I'll make), but I'm saying that the plugin is going to ban people irregardless what the reason they left was- where as before it wasn't as such. I'd also like to know why Scrim is any different then our other servers in terms of lighter punishments (besides "its always been that way"), because I genuinely think it encourages people to act like assholes knowing the punishment and likelihood of a punishment is low. If we're going to keep the auto-ban system we should make it more clear in that thread that there is NO EXCEPTIONS to the bans, and we should give our admins the ability to hand out punishments by themselves without running all of the bans through one person who has to manually put them all through.
Forgot those two lines were in the thread so I removed it because at that time I would issue bans myself at the time. If it comes to the point where people act like assholes then I wouldn't be against people getting a server-wide ban. It's up for admin discretion when it comes to that. It's pretty rare where people come to me saying that someone is being a massive asshole on the server every time he/she scrims. The last time we had this problem was months ago by some jailbreak regular whose name I forgot. That ended up being player harassment, he got punished for it and stopped ever since then. The only reason I got this plugin was to try to encourage people to stay instead of leaving mid-match. When it comes to shit like being a complete asshole where you're ruining the experience then I don't necessarily have any objections with an admin applying protocol.
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I don't mean to butt in, but this plugin is only a helping hand to a situation that was occurring kinda often before. It wasn't so much that regs / randoms on the scrim server were being asshats, it was more that often people would just leave because of previous arrangements. While the scrim server stands as a breather to competitive, it was incredibly annoying to play a match and have someone just leave because of something he or she had to do before. Yes, there are exceptions to being able to leave, but realistically, if you're going to take the spot of someone in scrim, you should commit to it. If you can't stay out the whole time, don't sit the spot. Whoever leaves ends up making the entire server either play out a 4v5, waste 20-30 mins looking for a sub, or simply end the scrim which ultimately is again, a waste of time. Iirc @Black Rain the plugin should be giving minor cooldowns that ramp up based on repeated offenses right? This plugin helps combat this one issue, while the rest still requires an admin to take care of. I never thought that the scrim server had "lighter" punishments than any other server. There's no other server that requires 10 people that commit their time to a particular match which is the only thing that has a toned down version of punishment. If someones racist or being an asshole, I've always done the same in this server vs the other servers. I give warnings, I tell them to stop, and I kick accordingly. Most of the people on the scrim server are regulars who know not to do such things though so I've never gone beyond warning someone to not do something in case they forgot.

Just wanted to clarify why this plugins actually better than simply letting admins handle it tbh. Previously, I had to message Black Rain on multiple occasions for people just leaving.
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I should clarify something.

My point was moreover that the plugin on Scrim will now discriminate against all players who disconnect when we have admins who given the power could hand out server specific bans or even them globally (and not having to message a BD who a large portion of the time is busy). With the amount of time we put into the administrating processes and such I don't see why we would take such an impersonal blanket approach to administrating on a scrim server but if it's really that big of an issue I'm fine if that's the route they want to take. By large I was just showing that it's an issue per what it said in the thread I showed, as the plugin obviously isn't some Ultron AI that can detect what players are leaving for.

Another thing I tend to disagree with here (which is obviously situational) is that you're right that no other server requires 10 people to fully commit to a particular 30+ minute match, which is why when some dick for brains leaves without notice and is being a complete ass about it he deserves an actual punishment and not to be unbanned without even bothering to talk to the two people involved with the ban. It honestly annoys me that shit like this hasn't gotten spoken about for such a long time until someone who's friends with a BD is getting punished. Maybe it's ignorance to what our admins or doing, maybe it's not- it's just bewildering to me honestly. Other people in the past have banned some of our literally most active members such as LiableStone and Casual. Giving out a low-time punishment that does not carry over for leaving a server which people only play maybe ever 2-7 days is just a bad way to handle rulebreakers IMO. I absolutely think the question you asked about how the punishment works is an great one due to that.

Anyway, I don't want to spend too much time arguing semantics but I think little rule contradictions, ambiguity in the rules, and small additions of plugins (such as the mute on death) is things that people tend to take issue on admin or not, and we should take them a bit more on the serious side. I'm glad this thread and the situation atleast brought some kind of positive change.
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