Starfall Design 3/31

1:25:12 AMSentor-Phonebeing a mod that is actually doing their job
1:25:14 AM~Cheesoidanother character slot
1:25:23 AM~Cheesoidbonus boxes of resources
1:25:29 AM~Cheesoidan instant tech unlock
1:25:36 AM~Cheesoidpriced appropriately of course
1:25:46 AMSentor-Phoneýéś śíŕ
1:25:49 AM~Cheesoidscaled to sie
1:25:51 AM~Cheesoidsize
1:26:18 AM~Cheesoidan ingame store of sorts
1:27:11 AMSentor-Phoneälšo ťhòşè țřâđé ŕìģhţş
1:27:40 AM~Cheesoidindeed
1:27:59 AM~Cheesoidso
1:28:03 AM~Cheesoidsolar reach
1:28:26 AM~Cheesoidit really feels like solar reach is just this but with an infinite map, individual building placement, and finer grained legion movement
1:28:41 AM~CheesoidI'm not sure if its needed
1:28:44 AMSentor-Phoneìf wè'ŕə §tìļĺ ďòìñğ ťháť ťŕąđè ťhìñģ
1:28:58 AMSentor-Phoneyeah it can be an incremental release i think
1:28:59 AM~Cheesoidthis may be a happy medium between the fall and silicon dawn tier
1:29:17 AMSentor-Phonethe map is in a very good place between tf and sd yes
1:29:29 AM~Cheesoidthinking about it, I'm not sure if solar reach individual building placement will work
1:29:41 AMSentor-Phoneid be comfortable using this codebase for all 3
1:29:43 AM~Cheesoidi put SD back up last summer and played it for a few months
1:29:54 AM~Cheesoidafter a while it got very tedious
1:29:59 AM~Cheesoidjust placing building after building
1:30:31 AMSentor-Phonefor solar reach there is really no shortage of space and planet things to map to the region/city model
1:30:51 AM~Cheesoidwell the point I'm thinking about is we don't even need to do a solar reach game
1:31:01 AM~Cheesoidmaybe take the fine grained legion movement and add it to winter wars
1:31:05 AM~Cheesoidand just scrap solar reach
1:31:19 AM~Cheesoidunless you feel there is more we can do to distinguish it
1:31:22 AMSentor-Phoneyes, just expand the map with new friendly names for city and region
1:31:32 AMSentor-Phoneregions would be like Eden orbit, edom orbit, solar orbit, Eden L1, Eden L4
1:31:32 AM~Cheesoidwe can keep midnight contingency as the pie in the sky super 3D game
1:31:45 AM~Cheesoidwe already talked about introducing edom
1:31:49 AMSentor-Phoneand cities in those regions be space stations
1:31:54 AM~Cheesoidso initially there will be a nice planet selector on the map
1:32:06 AMSentor-Phonethat works pretty abstractly too
1:32:13 AMSentor-PhoneEden, Edom, Space
1:32:22 AM~Cheesoidif we even get to space tier buildings
1:32:33 AMSentor-Phonedo we need different space buildings
1:32:41 AMSentor-Phonesurely a space station has similar needs
1:32:55 AM~Cheesoiddo we need to do space?
1:33:00 AM~Cheesoidi imagine its far enough off
1:33:03 AM~Cheesoidjust keep planet settlements
1:33:08 AM~Cheesoidedom, maybe some third planet
1:33:23 AM~Cheesoidmaybe introduce a worm hole whatever to another system
1:33:25 AM~Cheesoidkeep it all planet based
1:33:41 AMSentor-PhoneI'm saying if we wish to capture the SD style feel of space exploitation, we can easily do so in the current system
1:33:54 AMSentor-PhoneI'm not opposed to all planet based
1:33:54 AM~Cheesoidor if we do do space, just overlay it over a zoomed out planet with cities being space stations
1:33:54 AMSentor-Phonethat's what I'm saying
1:33:59 AM~CheesoidI'm leaning on planets entirely
1:34:05 AM~Cheesoidwe've done space a lot
1:34:17 AM~Cheesoidthe whole of winter wars will be 1950-2050 tech
1:34:23 AMSentor-Phoneyup
1:34:42 AM~Cheesoidbecause speaking realistically
1:34:50 AM~Cheesoidmidnight continegency is looking like itll be 2030 at this rate
1:35:05 AMSentor-PhoneI expect keeping space strictly a words only thing will retain some of the mystery for players, like for the space race, they can't themselves get to space so it has some mystery behind it
1:35:38 AM~Cheesoidyes, and forget not the state satellite ability
1:35:51 AM~Cheesoidintel and comms
1:36:09 AMSentor-Phonewhich is good because they won't then feel like they are trapped in a small world, they know there's more beyond
1:36:57 AM~Cheesoidso perhaps
1:36:59 AM~Cheesoidtwo map views
1:37:05 AM~Cheesoidglobal strategic view
1:37:08 AM~Cheesoidvarious nice state level overlays
1:37:11 AM~Cheesoidwar highlights and all that
1:37:45 AM~Cheesoidthen you can switch to a fine grained view (by clicking a region, navving from you city overview page, clicking a pm, whatever)
1:37:57 AMSentor-Phonesounds good to me
1:38:00 AM~Cheesoidits dragable like sf3.arke.me
1:38:05 AM~Cheesoidhttp://sf3.arke.me/Map/Index
1:38:07 AMSentor-Phonepetril?
1:38:13 AM~Cheesoidbut no fine grained building placement
1:38:16 AM~Cheesoidpreplaced cities by you
1:38:20 AMSentor-Phoneyup
1:38:23 AM~Cheesoidbut nice terrain backgrounds
1:38:32 AM~Cheesoidand we can let legions move freely or tie it to cities
1:38:34 AM~CheesoidI'm open to either
1:38:40 AMⓘ Sentor-Phone is now known as Petriloif
1:38:46 AMⓘ Petriloif is now known as Petriloid
1:38:49 AM~Cheesoidperhaps a mechanism for players to petion for founding a new city
1:39:09 AM~Cheesoidso for basic players
1:39:09 AM~Cheesoidsign in
1:39:14 AM~Cheesoidcollect if we do collections
1:39:19 AM~Cheesoidupgrade some buildings
1:39:22 AM~Cheesoidunlock a tech if you have it
1:39:42 AMPetriloidpunch the punching bag nations
1:39:44 AM~Cheesoid(I'm thinking the research lab will produce tech points so you can spend to unlock tech tree items or sell)
1:39:52 AM~Cheesoidand yes, war npcs
1:40:02 AM~Cheesoidso in the common palyer case, daily actions are still quickj
1:40:07 AM~Cheesoidlike a turn in rome
1:40:15 AM~Cheesoidjust press the , repeatedly looking for a yellow chevron to upgrade
1:40:19 AM~Cheesoidthen end turn
1:40:22 AM~Cheesoidoccasionally warring
1:40:32 AM~Cheesoidand when a war is one, spend a few more minutes moving legions and attacking
1:40:55 AMPetriloidstates will have things for them too, don't forget to contribute to the war fund, don't forget to join a squad, don't forget to fight our mortal foe State B
1:41:03 AM~Cheesoidwhy
1:41:05 AM~Cheesoidright*
1:41:09 AMPetriloid!
1:41:22 AM~Cheesoidbut for uninterested players, its still a quick came
1:41:22 AM~Cheesoidgame
1:41:22 AM~Cheesoidso we capture that crowd
1:41:22 AMPetriloidyup
1:41:31 AM~Cheesoidbut for the coanine people, they can spend a lot more time minmax buyselling
1:41:35 AMPetriloid:)
1:41:37 AMPetriloidcocaine
1:41:40 AM~Cheesoidmarkets, raiding, politicking
1:41:55 AMPetriloidI think my new identity should probably be Petril
1:42:13 AM~Cheesoid:)
1:42:33 AM~Cheesoidso midnight contingency
1:42:37 AM~Cheesoidwhat even is it
1:42:46 AM~Cheesoid3D, but what else?
1:42:49 AM~Cheesoideve with buildings?
1:42:59 AMPetriloiddon't forget as part of casual play players who lack resources to get that next building or unit will head to the market too
1:43:04 AM~Cheesoidis there a compelling feature set?
1:43:18 AM~Cheesoidright. I'm just saying for the common average case
1:43:24 AM~Cheesoidit can be palyed in five minutes a day
1:43:31 AMPetriloidit was interesting as the flee from the terminus thing
1:43:35 AM~Cheesoidbut for those more interested, there is a wealth of things to do
1:43:39 AMPetriloidneeds more work
1:43:40 AMPetriloidyes
1:44:26 AM~CheesoidI'm not even sure if there is anything we could do for MC
1:44:32 AM~Cheesoidwe don't have reosurces for eve tier
1:44:42 AM~Cheesoidhow would buildings even work
1:44:45 AMPetriloidit's not worth the worry yet
1:44:58 AMPetriloidit's literal years of starfall away
1:45:09 AM~Cheesoidwell it sets the tone and expectation for winter wars
1:45:22 AMPetriloidmidnight contingency?
1:45:27 AM~Cheesoidyes
1:45:33 AM~Cheesoidif we know there is a sequel of sorts we make different decisions in ww
1:45:38 AM~CheesoidMC = 3D
1:46:26 AM~Cheesoidi literally have no ferature ideas percolating for mc
1:46:31 AM~Cheesoidits literally just 3D something
1:46:35 AMPetriloideven if it ends up radically different matching old assets up to new has been done before
1:46:48 AMPetriloidso I wouldn't worry of it yet
1:46:54 AM~Cheesoidall the various silence of eden design docs were focused more on out of game things
1:46:57 AM~Cheesoidcorporations, alliances, markets
1:47:04 AM~Cheesoidit was light on the game itself
1:47:12 AM~Cheesoidthe point I'm making isd
1:47:19 AM~Cheesoidi think I'm leaning on just scrapping it entirely
1:47:35 AM~Cheesoidif we have ideas in five years after winter wars is solid, sure we can evaluate then
1:48:02 AM~Cheesoidlike we've often said time for us is very limited now
1:48:18 AMPetriloidyeah I wouldn't worry about what mc may be
1:48:29 AM~CheesoidI'm just going to cancel it in my head
1:48:30 AMPetriloidwinter wars will be a multi year project
1:48:34 AMPetriloidk
1:48:47 AMPetriloidein multi user dungeon
1:48:52 AM~Cheesoidso ill have my two personal projects
1:48:57 AM~CheesoidArkeOS and ArkeCLR
1:49:06 AM~Cheesoidand then winter wars, starfall, silence of eden
1:49:07 AM~Cheesoidwhichever
1:49:10 AM~Cheesoidwe wont need a tagline now
1:49:14 AMPetriloidI will chew on these things while I sleep
1:49:19 AM~Cheesoidme too
1:49:23 AM~Cheesoideither way id like to meet soon
1:49:30 AMPetriloidindeed
1:49:32 AM~Cheesoidhammer out mechanics and plot
1:49:39 AMPetriloidand duel to the death
1:49:41 AM~Cheesoidgive the plot the same review we have for mechanics
1:49:50 AMPetriloidyup
1:50:01 AM~Cheesoidfinal items:
1:50:28 AM~Cheesoidwe need some thought on upkeep items
1:50:36 AM~Cheesoidthe various construction resources are good
1:50:47 AMPetriloidplot here won't be "this list of things needs to happen" anymore, just the broad arcs to fit narrative into
1:50:47 AM~Cheesoidpeople eat food to live
1:50:50 AM~Cheesoidarmies use fuel to move, explosive to attack
1:51:04 AM~Cheesoiddo cities need water,electricity, and other services?
1:51:09 AMPetriloidhmmm
1:51:10 AM~Cheesoideducation, health, safety
1:51:21 AMPetriloidif i may be so bold
1:51:22 AM~Cheesoidthose are the only other things we've tossed around
1:51:51 AM~Cheesoidwater would be a really interesting resource we haven't explored before
1:52:59 AMPetriloidFood, Buildmats, Metal, Luxury, Logistics, Management
1:53:32 AMPetriloidlogistics are both the resource consumed on attack/move and by cities for their utilities and services
1:54:02 AMPetriloidmanagement is needed for higher level units and buildings and serves as a sort of asset luxury item
1:54:28 AM~Cheesoidmmmm
1:54:33 AMPetriloidbalancing them with cheaper alternates
1:54:35 AM~Cheesoidthese are very interesting thoughts
1:54:47 AM~Cheesoidi like the dual phase production we introduced in regnum
1:54:50 AM~Cheesoidmines make metal
1:54:51 AMPetriloidindeed
1:54:57 AM~Cheesoidblacksmiths use metal to make weapons
1:55:17 AM~Cheesoidso resources have two tiers
1:55:20 AM~Cheesoidconstruction level things
1:55:23 AM~Cheesoidand upkeep level things
1:55:32 AM~Cheesoidwood/metal go into buildmats and weapons
1:55:44 AM~Cheesoidfood, luxury, logistics, management, water go into upkeep
1:56:09 AMPetriloidyup
1:56:33 AM~Cheesoidif i do add something like electricity, itll be per-city and not needing to worry about transportation
1:56:45 AM~CheesoidMichigan really doesn't send power to California nayway
1:56:54 AM~CheesoidI'm thinking about some predefined slots too
1:57:06 AM~Cheesoidlike in rome you always had a city center slot, port slot on water, and resource slot if available
1:57:06 AMPetriloidif you want a construction level version of management, Manpower would be one generated by a building, spent on assets, and refined into Management
1:57:14 AMPetriloidliterally education system
1:57:20 AM~Cheesoid:)
1:57:47 AM~Cheesoidonly other idea we've toyed around with and not used here in witner wars yet are corps
1:57:56 AMPetriloidindeed
1:58:01 AM~Cheesoidthe compelling features are offering services
1:58:09 AM~Cheesoidbut we don't want to duplicate state functionality
1:58:19 AM~Cheesoidbut are there useful services or purposes to corps?
1:58:30 AMPetriloidwould be interesting if you could swap for a cost, forego your ability to use legions and gain service functionality
1:58:33 AM~Cheesoidthere's the market we could tie in, but markets can also live independently
1:59:09 AM~Cheesoidi think something we explored before:
1:59:10 AM~Cheesoida character can be a governor OR a ceo
1:59:23 AMPetriloidmmm nice location
1:59:25 AM~Cheesoidgovernor is as we know it now
1:59:31 AM~Cheesoidbut a ceo runs a corp that is trans-state
1:59:40 AMPetriloidindeed
1:59:40 AM~Cheesoidperhaps picking a city for an HQ or whatever
1:59:53 AM~Cheesoidwe explored a city leasing a building/slot to a corp
1:59:59 AMPetriloidyee
2:00:03 AM~Cheesoidservices i liked:
2:00:16 AM~Cheesoidescrow, insurance, courier, market
2:00:24 AM~Cheesoidpay X Corp $500 a turn
2:00:34 AMPetriloidplayer could build a city building called Business Zoning, allows for 1 corporate office there
2:00:37 AM~Cheesoidin event of war losses exceeding 10%, we pay replacement cost
2:01:00 AM~Cheesoidescrow facilitates physical good trade between players
2:01:05 AM~Cheesoidcourier moves things
2:01:07 AM~Cheesoidmarket as you know already
2:01:11 AMPetriloidthen player negotiates with corps to try and get the best payment for them to office there
2:01:42 AM~Cheesoidid like to see futures contracts emerge too
2:01:46 AMPetriloidcorps would jockey for safe regions
2:01:59 AM~Cheesoidi like the idea of services like these
2:02:03 AM~Cheesoidbut what would a ceo do on login?
2:02:12 AM~Cheesoidi don't want to code services ingame too much
2:02:19 AM~Cheesoidso many he will do manual insurance payouts?
2:02:31 AM~Cheesoidmove the courier legion around
2:03:38 AMPetriloidautomated with approval seems most fun, so he'd login and review pending payouts to approve, move the courier legion from one safeish point to another, advertise their services like any company
2:03:42 AM~Cheesoidthe only reason not to combine governor and ceo is that a ceo would be divorced from politics
2:04:02 AM~Cheesoidrather state control, if a state offered services, whenever it went to war it'd suffer
2:04:07 AMPetriloidindeed
2:04:17 AM~Cheesoida corp could embargo and not take sides, or it could aid
2:04:37 AM~Cheesoidother service ideas it could offer?
2:04:57 AMPetriloidnot at this hour sadly
2:05:02 AMPetriloidI am close to retiring
2:05:29 AM~Cheesoidworry not
2:05:34 AM~Cheesoidthe sleeping pills are nearly knocking me out as well
2:05:45 AM~Cheesoidi think i have enough to chew over
2:05:45 AMPetriloidpills here
2:05:47 AM~Cheesoidfinal thoughts?
2:05:52 AM* Petriloid chugs bottle
2:05:53 AMPetriloidno
2:05:56 AMPetriloidGodspeed
2:06:11 AM~Cheesoidaye
2:06:12 AM~Cheesoidgatonato
2:06:14 AMⓘ Petriloid is now known as Petril|Sleep
2:06:19 AMPetril|Sleepgato