(1:10:12 PM) You are not in || Loxxy || A Colorful Existence's contact list.
Conversation with Loxy on 2/24/2011 1:10:12 PM:
(1:10:12 PM) You are not in || Loxxy || A Colorful Existence's contact list.


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(1:10:37 PM) Jon: Out of curiosity, is anything else going to be done? I'm debating keeping Voran on CoTH.
(1:11:34 PM) Loxy: I have no idea, to be honest.
(1:11:42 PM) Loxy: It seems the discussion just died.
(1:12:01 PM) Loxy: But whatever happens, I'm pretty sure it's not going to be permanent.
(1:13:42 PM) Jon: Figures.
(1:13:53 PM) Jon: Thanks for at least trying to help and not letting them ban my ass.
(1:14:18 PM) Loxy: It's not the first time I argued something into it going stale and forgotten.
(1:14:22 PM) Loxy: I did it for Riff, too.
(1:14:26 PM) Loxy: *sigh*
(1:14:34 PM) Jon: What happened with Riffy?
(1:14:53 PM) Loxy: Someone reported her as rude in the Vent. And I argued against it as it wasn't.
(1:15:02 PM) Jon: Honestly? I'm tempted to make a very rude leaving topic, as, to be frank. I'm dragging 10+ good RPers to CoE.
(1:15:11 PM) Loxy: *droop*
(1:15:36 PM) Jon: I mean.....right now? Unless half the community packs up and leaves, I don't know you guys will do shit.
(1:16:23 PM) Loxy: Maybe. But it doesn't stop me from being sad about the whole thing. Many of my closest friends are "abandoning" me.
(1:16:30 PM) Jon: Oh?
(1:16:57 PM) Loxy: I don't have anything against them playing elsewhere. That's not the thing. And I don't have anything against them hating CotH, or whatever.
(1:17:03 PM) Loxy: It's just that my anchors are disappearing.
(1:17:33 PM) Loxy: Riffy was an anchor.
(1:17:36 PM) Loxy: Terant is an anchor.
(1:17:39 PM) Loxy: Binkle is an anchor.
(1:17:45 PM) Loxy: DaveM is one of my greatest anchors.
(1:18:11 PM) Jon: ....all moving to CoE, if you didn't know. Not sure about DaveM, but I know Hown is going to drag him.
(1:18:21 PM) Jon: And we talked shit about the prestige system.
(1:18:27 PM) Jon: Well, not moving.
(1:18:34 PM) Loxy: I already know, which is why it's not making things better.
(1:18:34 PM) Jon: Playing on both.
(1:18:36 PM) Loxy: He told me.
(1:18:50 PM) Jon: Told you they're moving, or playing on both?
(1:19:03 PM) Loxy: Playing on both, for Terant, Binkle and DaveM.
(1:20:10 PM) Jon: Yeah. Though I've found once people see CoE, they tend to favor it. When the admin himself hops in vent and asks for question, and the staff is actually kind.....I mean. It's bugged as shit.
(1:20:27 PM) Jon: But they still say how it's  the best. Don't want to depress you, but you deserve honesty.
(1:21:12 PM) Loxy: Meh. I'm not giving up. There are things going on in the background and I've been speaking to Kretol about stuff. And Grakor.
(1:21:29 PM) Loxy: Hawk's probably gone soon due to inactivity. Mouse and Drumgar, too. Anski? I talked to Kretol about her.
(1:21:39 PM) Jon: Let me guess, nothing happening.
(1:22:05 PM) Loxy: I wouldn't know yet, since they'd have to get a hold of her first and I only spoke to them two days ago.
(1:22:28 PM) Jon: Sucks. Though if there's no discussion, I doubt it'll happen.
(1:22:39 PM) Jon: Did I ever give you my log of Rigley and me?
(1:22:58 PM) Loxy: And most of our discussion was about the team as a whole and a potential new way of recruiting Forum GMs, and a new Storyteller rank.
(1:23:04 PM) Loxy: And new GMs.
(1:23:12 PM) Jon: Pfft. OUt with the old, in with the new.
(1:23:16 PM) Jon: Seriously, toss people.
(1:23:34 PM) Jon: Storyteller rank sounds nice. But the real problem is with the team's attitude.
(1:23:49 PM) Jon: I can't tell you how many people thanked me after I said shit, and just told me they didn't want to get banned.
(1:24:08 PM) Jon: .....also, I never got formally warned.
(1:24:53 PM) Loxy: Point is, things are happening. I'm working my ass off. And I'll probably crack at least once more before this is oeer.
(1:24:55 PM) Loxy: *over
(1:24:59 PM) Loxy: But shame to those who give up.
(1:25:25 PM) Jon: Sadly, you working you ass off might not be enough to fix anything.
(1:25:36 PM) Loxy: It will be.
(1:25:51 PM) Loxy: I will remain positive to the whole thing, because me saying "No, it's not possible" is making it impossible.
(1:25:52 PM) Jon: No one respects the GMs here. Everyone sees you all as lazy fucks, the prestige system is inexcusable. Of course, everyone <3s you.
(1:26:10 PM) Loxy: Change is possible.
(1:26:19 PM) Loxy: Otherwise, I would never have attained the Counselor rank in the first place.
(1:26:28 PM) Jon: Hasn't changed since Twilight joined. Same thing with new people, according to her.
(1:26:52 PM) Loxy: No reason to give up.
(1:27:55 PM) Jon: I admire it, but can't agree with it.
(1:28:18 PM) Jon: Unless they actually toss GMs. Which I think we both know won't happen.
(1:29:46 PM) Loxy: Then again, I don't think the GMs themselves is the whole problem. The problem lies on the whole community. So saying that the GMs should be the scapegoats without the inside of what they actually do behind the scenes is wrong, to me. Some of the GMs shouldn't be there, no. But, Rigley and Krilari? They're doing good jobs. And they have been working so very hard to improve.
(1:30:06 PM) Loxy: To the point where I had to cheer them up because they were depressed and dejected.
(1:30:13 PM) Loxy: It's just...
(1:30:22 PM) Loxy: Bah. I know too much about everything.
(1:31:02 PM) Loxy: Too much that I'm not supposed to talk about, either.
(1:31:32 PM) Jon: Eh. I shouldn't be naming people who are leaving, but if you want, I would tell.
(1:31:37 PM) Jon: Here's the problem with the community.
(1:31:43 PM) Jon: It's ALL shit talking behind backs.
(1:31:45 PM) Jon: All of it
(1:31:59 PM) Jon: No one is man enough to say anything to someone's face.
(1:32:22 PM) Jon: The entire. Fucking. Server. Talks shit about the Tri Written. I actually let them know so maybe they'd improve.
(1:32:33 PM) Loxy: As do I.
(1:32:36 PM) Jon: You know what caused it? GMs. You speak out, you miss them off.
(1:32:39 PM) Jon: *piss
(1:32:44 PM) Jon: If you're not banned.
(1:32:51 PM) Jon: I think you can admit that's true.
(1:32:59 PM) Jon: I'm sure half the staff wants to kill me.
(1:34:44 PM) Loxy: The problem with that is that whenever people do speak up, they do it in public forums in a manner that's not always suiting. People bottle things up until they burst, and when they burst, it comes out the wrong way. Teege did it well. He reported. Always. We know that he didn't always see the results he desired, but no report goes unposted. No report goes unarchived. People don't realize that.
(1:35:01 PM) Loxy: And the shit talking on the GM side has lessened significantly since I started putting my foot down, for instance.
(1:35:11 PM) Loxy: I snarled at Hawk when he was being anrgy at Maulbane.
(1:35:21 PM) Loxy: I've put my foot down to Anski several times.
(1:35:26 PM) Loxy: As with Drumgar.
(1:35:49 PM) Jon: Doesn't answer my question if the staff hates me.
(1:36:24 PM) Jon: Because, I mean, everyone knows the GMs are lazy on this stuff. PMs don't get read, you don't get a response.
(1:36:39 PM) Jon: I had to ask Nexi to address a PM, since it got ignored by the staff.
(1:37:43 PM) Loxy: PMs do get read. Not always responded to, no, since we post the PMs for discussion. And many times, the topic drops underneath others of bigger urgence. Yes, we could get much better at that. And that's something that could definitely be fixed.
(1:37:52 PM) Loxy: And personally, I'm pretty clueless about most PMs since I never get any.
(1:39:11 PM) Loxy: But saying that the main discussion forum has 8,000 replies alone speaks for that there is in fact activity.
(1:39:45 PM) Jon: Personally, I think people need to be transparent. GMs aren't.
(1:39:50 PM) Jon: It's your server. Not the players, frankly.
(1:40:00 PM) Jon: GMs make all the choices, no?
(1:40:51 PM) Loxy: In the end, yes.
(1:41:39 PM) Jon: Without telling the players why. Never got an answer on Ratchet arena, it was fucking ingored.
(1:41:51 PM) Jon: And we see things like, "Oh, we don't want things to be destroyed in Cata."
(1:41:57 PM) Jon: That's an excuse for being lazy.
(1:42:06 PM) Jon: And the prestige system?
(1:42:20 PM) Jon: GMs have little incentive to work on it.
(1:42:36 PM) Loxy: I can answer the Ratched arena issue.
(1:42:44 PM) Loxy: Because it was built by Lethys.
(1:42:50 PM) Loxy: And none of us could recreate it.
(1:42:53 PM) Jon: Yet. Universally, we wanted it.
(1:43:08 PM) Jon: Who cares if you recreate it? Give us something that was like it.
(1:43:10 PM) Jon: And see.
(1:43:12 PM) Jon: This is just it.
(1:43:16 PM) Jon: Conflicting shit.
(1:43:20 PM) Jon: Rigley gave us another answer.
(1:43:30 PM) Loxy: He didn't know the core answer.
(1:43:34 PM) Loxy: *shrug*
(1:43:51 PM) Jon: But it's all this shit. And GMs are NEVER removed.
(1:43:53 PM) Jon: For being lazy.
(1:43:55 PM) Jon: Never.
(1:44:01 PM) Jon: And some of them keep the attitude.
(1:44:03 PM) Jon: Like cressy.
(1:44:06 PM) Jon: Good riddance.
(1:44:59 PM) Loxy: Lethys was the best builder CotH ever had. None of us are even close to what he managed to build.
(1:45:03 PM) Loxy: Rigley's the closest.
(1:45:07 PM) Loxy: And he's the main builder.
(1:45:33 PM) Jon: Doesn't mean not to try.
(1:45:44 PM) Jon: But whatever. Be honest. How hated am I with the GMs now?
(1:45:52 PM) Jon: I already know Rigley and others do, since they went for the perma.
(1:46:31 PM) Loxy: Many do think you're a, to quote "D-bag". I can't answer exactly how many since I didn't ask and have no clue.
(1:47:02 PM) Jon: XD
(1:47:05 PM) Jon: Please tell me who.
(1:47:09 PM) Loxy: No.
(1:47:10 PM) Jon: And I expected it.
(1:47:17 PM) Jon: See.
(1:47:22 PM) Jon: More shit talking behind my back.
(1:47:36 PM) Jon: I know where you're coming from.
(1:47:44 PM) Jon: But it's just going to be the GMs talking shit behind my back.
(1:47:47 PM) Loxy: And, to be completely honest. Who doesn't have an opinion about someone else?
(1:47:49 PM) Jon: The cycle continues.
(1:47:53 PM) Loxy: And why can't GMs have them?

:/
(1:47:59 PM) Jon: There's a difference between opinions.
(1:48:06 PM) Jon: And talking shit. Which I know happens in vent.
(1:48:20 PM) Jon: And I'm SURE, Rigley, Anski talked shit once I did it.
(1:48:23 PM) Jon: Don't tell me otherwise.
(1:48:27 PM) Loxy: And doesn't that happen over in your Vent as well?
(1:48:38 PM) Loxy: Rigley did not, in fact.
(1:48:52 PM) Jon: Anksi then.
(1:49:09 PM) Jon: Though the perma ban sort of makes talking shit irrelevant.
(1:51:09 PM) Loxy: Either way. -Gossiping- happens everywhere. The shit talking happens everywhere. I and others are trying to enforce it when we see it, but in the end everyone does it. Everywhere. Outside of CotH. Probably over on CoE as well. But whenever the GMs have a negative opinion, no matter how justified it is or how it's formulated, it's wrong.
(1:51:18 PM) Loxy: Because they are talking behind someone's back.
(1:51:28 PM) Loxy: But everyone else does it. It's only wrong when we do.
(1:51:36 PM) Loxy: NO, not saying I agree with it.
(1:51:36 PM) Jon: Oh, I'm not saying that.
(1:51:39 PM) Loxy: Just an observation.
(1:51:47 PM) Jon: It's a problem, players do it too.
(1:51:52 PM) Jon: We talk shit about Wuvumns and Rilgey.
(1:51:57 PM) Jon: Tri Written.
(1:52:10 PM) Jon: Just saying. GMs are supposed to be the best, and should be people you want to be like.
(1:52:12 PM) Jon: They're not.
(1:52:20 PM) Jon: You know?
(1:52:41 PM) Jon: I think it's fucking wrong that people talk shit about the Tri Written. Wuvumns and Rilgey? You can't speak up.
(1:52:47 PM) Jon: Or you have the GMs hate you and perma ban you.
(1:52:59 PM) Jon: But if you could tell me the GMs don't think I'm a dbag, I'd appreciate it.
(1:53:10 PM) Jon: I already only talk to basically you and Nexi anyways.
(1:53:21 PM) Loxy: However, it's not about the fact that you DID speak up. It's the way you did it. I did tell you before you spoke in public that it wasn't the right forum for it.
(1:53:40 PM) Jon: They asked for it.
(1:53:49 PM) Loxy: Doesn't make it right.
(1:53:49 PM) Jon: Spiralin and I basically ansked the questions together.
(1:54:02 PM) Jon: Justifies it. Doesn't mean I'm better than you.
(1:54:15 PM) Jon: Cressy fucking called him disrespectful, and Anski took it personal.
(1:54:18 PM) Jon: That bitch does it all the time.
(1:54:27 PM) Jon: Why would I fucking respect the GMs.
(1:54:31 PM) Jon: When we don't get ANY.
(1:54:57 PM) Jon: We tried to hint about favortism. Cliff even fucking made it clear Wuvumns was a problem.
(1:55:11 PM) Jon: And he was ignored, even when Spiralin and I said he had a point.....her.
(1:55:20 PM) Loxy: He wasn't ignored.
(1:55:26 PM) Loxy: Why do you think Rigley was depressed?
(1:55:46 PM) Jon: Yeah, he really was.
(1:55:52 PM) Jon: They never brought it up.
(1:55:54 PM) Loxy: Yes, he was in fact.
(1:56:02 PM) Loxy: I heard him on Vent and I spoke to him in private.
(1:56:10 PM) Jon: Well, they didn't bother to tell us.
(1:56:10 PM) Loxy: So yes.
(1:56:20 PM) Jon: Maybe if he hadn't brushed it off, I wouldn't have done that crap.
(1:56:37 PM) Loxy: Public image and continuity.
(1:56:48 PM) Loxy: M&G still needed to continue.
(1:56:57 PM) Loxy: And, the issues aren't addressed THEN and THERE.
(1:57:14 PM) Jon: If it can't be addressed in front of everyone, when will it be?
(1:57:18 PM) Jon: It won't.
(1:57:21 PM) Loxy: THEN.
(1:57:24 PM) Loxy: And THERE.
(1:57:29 PM) Jon: Because how the fuck do I know what you do in your private forum?
(1:57:31 PM) Jon: I don't.
(1:57:31 PM) Loxy: Change doesn't happen in the snap of two fingers.
(1:57:40 PM) Loxy: But people assume and expect it will.
(1:57:42 PM) Jon: True. But talking about it can happen there.
(1:57:46 PM) Jon: Which it wasn't.
(1:58:01 PM) Jon: And you know why I did it in front of everyone?
(1:58:15 PM) Jon: Why I personally did it? It says something if I get banned.
(1:58:50 PM) Jon: And really. You should be able to speak up. Whether it's polite or not means nothing. Especially if we don't get any.
(1:59:35 PM) Loxy: No one should be expecting a good response to something put out the wrong way. Both sides stooping to the same level does not provoke good responses. Never. And should never be expected to.
(1:59:46 PM) Loxy: So I will never understand why people seem to think it works.
(2:00:25 PM) Jon: I play the, "They started it" card.
(2:00:32 PM) Jon: Oh, it doesn't work.
(2:00:34 PM) Loxy: It doesn't matter if you don't experience it as being treated respectfully. Of you bite back, do you expect them not to?
(2:00:37 PM) Loxy: *If
(2:00:44 PM) Loxy: If we turn it around.
(2:01:17 PM) Loxy: And "They started it" never works.
(2:01:18 PM) Jon: I was pissed. Spiralin and I put it respectfully. We were ingored. Why would I bother to hide how pissed I was?
(2:01:19 PM) Jon: And frankly.
(2:01:21 PM) Loxy: Look at Israel.
(2:01:26 PM) Jon: I think we both know it wasn't as bad as I meant it.
(2:02:30 PM) Loxy: As long as people keep punching eachother back because everyone refuses to be the "better person", this issue won't ever go anywhere since people justify bad attitudes by pointing fingers at others.
(2:03:18 PM) Jon: And there's the thing. The GMs should be. But fuckers like Anksi screw it over.
(2:03:25 PM) Jon: I've seen her rage twice.
(2:03:58 PM) Jon: I won't say I did the perfect thing. But people going for a perma ban. Justifies everything we said.
(2:04:15 PM) Jon: And Kretol wonders why people hide behind a god damn level 1 alt.
(2:04:26 PM) Jon: Move my damn banning topic out and we'll see.
(2:04:30 PM) Jon: God I wanted to post that.
(2:04:38 PM) Loxy: Not -ONLY- us. Of course many GMs turn sour if they're greeted as idiots, horrible people and morons everywhere. People are shaped greatly by other peoples' expectations of them. If someone expects you to be a horrible person and treats you as such, you will eventually become it.
(2:05:01 PM) Loxy: I read enough psychology to know this is true.
(2:05:33 PM) Jon: That's just the thing. No one would admit they hate the GMs.
(2:06:05 PM) Jon: Seriously though. You have no idea how much I want that fucking banning topic to be moved to a public forum. Though I shouldn't know that.
(2:06:11 PM) Jon: Which is why I didn't post that to Kretol.
(2:07:20 PM) Loxy: Mhm. I already got in enough trouble, thanks.
(2:07:27 PM) Jon: Do tell.
(2:07:33 PM) Loxy: No.
(2:07:51 PM) Jon: Bleh, fair enough, you don't think I can be trusted, it's fair.
(2:08:20 PM) Loxy: That's not it. But I'm not going to throw those things out. They're between me and Kretol, and between the other GMs.
(2:08:45 PM) Jon: Fair enough, though I think it's fair if you wouldn't want to trust me.
(2:08:58 PM) Jon: Anyways. You sound in a bad mood, I should end this and eat :P
(2:09:14 PM) Jon: Keep in mind, when I talk shit about the GMs, you and Nexi are exempt.
(2:09:41 PM) Loxy: We never are, because we're still "the GM team". And we will always be "the GM team".
(2:09:55 PM) Jon: Even when you get kicked out.
(2:10:02 PM) Loxy: Until we step down. Well, we will still partly be, because everyone will look at us the same.
(2:10:11 PM) Jon: Because most keep the attitude.
(2:10:14 PM) Jon: To be honest.
(2:10:16 PM) Loxy: Not always.
(2:10:36 PM) Loxy: But if people are treated as outcasts by the entire community, of course they'll act different.
(2:10:40 PM) Loxy: Cressy and Rensin?
(2:10:45 PM) Jon: Heh. Rensin.
(2:10:45 PM) Loxy: Everyone knew them too well as GMs.
(2:10:52 PM) Loxy: There was no way they'd be able to be players again.
(2:11:08 PM) Loxy: Because people continued to treat them differently.
(2:11:56 PM) Jon: Which is why you can place half of it on the community.
(2:11:58 PM) Jon: Which is fair.
(2:12:14 PM) Jon: Better to be a 'dbag' then to keep talking shit behinds backs, in my opinion.
(2:14:15 PM) Loxy: Anyway, you know what's fucking funny? I created the Counselor GM title to take care of the bottled up opinions.
(2:14:20 PM) Loxy: When did I coin the expression?
(2:14:23 PM) Loxy: Months before I become a GM.
(2:15:41 PM) Loxy: The solution is right there. People could be using me more than they already are. Riffy said it was useless. But she was the only one addressing things. I can't work with small amounts of material.
(2:15:46 PM) Loxy: I need overwhelming proof.
(2:16:31 PM) Jon: But no one will bother to. Which is sad, because GMs will think you're a dbag and shit. And when people ask for brutal honesty, they get pissed.
(2:16:43 PM) Jon: Anyways, hopefully I'll talk to you about something else later.