Fem vs Ame

Fem vs Ame

Fem R1
* samus missiles at close range
* missiles are fast
* shoot bullets out of air from outside of building they are fired within
* dodge close range gunfire
* dodge into gunfire
* grab supersonic missile
* blasts crater concrete, rend metal, detonate ships when charged
* strikes launch heavy foes into concrete
* ice beams encase opponents
* heat from explosives and plasma beams
* power bombs make big explosions, so do super missiles
* samus gets kicked through concrete and rebar floor, through a concrete and rebar floor, indented into wall
* solid piercing resist, heat resist, pressure resist
* samus wants to shoot you
* uses all options at range
* can fight melee, will lay traps and disengage for range
* protect slower allies, seek cover
* ww tracks bullets with her eyes
* blocks bullets many times, many ways
* fights with sword and shield, which makes it so she both attacks faster and is less exposed doing so
* diana cuts through metal, stabs concrete
* shatters marble statues bigger than she is, charges through walls
* 30t lifting, ranged liftcheck
* shield blocks strong attacks
* launched into tanks and ground
* shield has piercing resist
* gauntlets also
* poison and electric resistance
* diana always seeks advantage and moves around opponents
* ranged liftcheck again
* blasts with aoe to regain advantage state
* trips opponents, stabs
* protects teammates, shotcalls, distracts opponents
* edward reacts in 10ms, can perceive 1ms but doesn't react in 1ms
* faster than 12ms reactions
* human speed is slow motion
* complex action in 10ms
* athletic human is slow motion
* travel speed > 100mph
* superhuman thinkin
* edward grapples with grip that crushes iron to dust and lifts 200x+ his own weight, is heavier than a human of his size
* grapples people stronger than he is
* bites shred steel
* vampire teeth more effective against vampire skin than human teeth are to human skin
* bites are venomous and cause massive pain
* kicks launch foes 3 stories up
* throws foes through a tree
* tackles hard enough to crater wooden floor
* can be tackled by another vampire without notable damage
* braces against a shove that splits stone
* a thrown boulder is annoying
* unable to kill himself
-beyda
* very bullet proof, like cutting through granite
* rips opponents apart, throws objects at opponents
* will engage and disengage with high travel speed
* attacks distracted foes esp when their back is turned
* superboy and geoforce have hundreds of appearances and have fewer bullet timing feats than samus or diana, and as such should not be considered truly "bullet timing" as opposed to short bursts of speed
-idk how solid i am on this point but i suppose it's an alright one to make
* none of team ame is going to oneshot fem team, esoterics/range have no posited speed
* team ame cant take hits for that long, feats show staggering or winding, slow recovery from hits
* team ame weaker, slower, no one shots, can likely be overwhelmed quickly by team fem
* edward is a telepath and will know everything combat relevant about team ame
* aware of battle plans, strategies, next moves
* edward ambushes distracted foes
* samus shoots fast with aoe, if you're not engaging samus you're taking damage from her
* samus shoots down fast projectiles
* will seek cover behind teammates
* diana protec
* distracts opponents to allow for ambush

extremely fucking solid response

Ame R1
* ian obliterates corner of building
* tendrils pierce metal, has a bunch of them, they move at arrow speed, dodging would be very difficult for non-agile opponents
* taze a dude
* light a dude on fire
* superboy punches supergirl into crater, obliterage chunk of road
* geo-force obliterates a large chunk of building
* samus put through 1ft concrete
* piercing to wood piercing, which is worse than ian
* fem scales to feat that is unclear how piercing it is due to explosion
* no electric resist
* ww good blunt dura, cant fight for extended time period
* diana has no piercing resist, but bulletproof is worse than ian's tendrils
* no fire resist
* edward blunt dura vague, boulder could be small, stone could be small
* busts wood? lol
* ian pierce metal which is > granite
* samus blast minorly damage concrete, put people through concrete with strikes
* burn and freeze
* aoe explosive vaguely large
* blunt force not that good, beams do below tier damage, strikes through less than 1ft concrete, temp attacks good, explosives vague
* ww decent striking, equal or worse to team ame
* cut through metal
* treebusting edward
* lift 100x his own weight
-you fool. you utter imbecile. you cretin.
* bites through metal, poison causes pain
* decent grappling and piercing but probably unable to hurt team ame significantly
* witchblade gives dura for 3 concrete floors worth of hits
* witchblade holds open spino jaw, much smaller alligator is 1.5t bite force
* grappling witchblade bad due to tendrils point blank
* witchblade can block itself and can block high powered hunting rifle
* and witchblade can make a shield
* superboy takes hit that big chunks road
* superboy stronger than edward
-this doesn't necessarily prove that, you could get numbers for both, why not just directly compare them to solidify this point
* king shark cant bite him, king shark bites through metal armor
* darts that shred metal helicopters dont work on him
* even while dying painkillers dont work on him, plus isn't human so why does terrestrial poison work
* superboy touches brimstone who is very hot, and can be frozen solid
* geo takes hit that throws him far away, through house
* geo lifts large tank, so stronger than edward
-compare the fucking numbers
* owlrang can't cut him despite cutting through metal
* unaffected by anesthetic gas
* fine in lava or frozen solid
* ian catches bullets
* superboy protects his grilfrend after bullet is fired
* geo increases gravity on bullets after they're fired
* distance between samus and projectiles in feats is large
* ww blocks bullets, comparable to ian and superboy at best
* edward reacts in 10ms
-only kind of what fem said and is somewhat contraindicated by the feats fem posted of completing a complex action in 10ms
* geo can increase grav 20x
* or decrease to make foes float
* increased grav on samus's armor will kill her, no lifting feats
* edward floating is basically incap
* also works on samus in that she'd be unable to dodge
* superboy can dismantle techshit with discrete parts
* touching samus is a wincon against her
* can dismantle her through the floor they're both touching
* ian absorbs magic as his primary function
* absorbs witchblade
* absorbs the darkness, which is a primordial extrauniversal force
* ww gains her power from magic
* ian will absorb this magic
* draining the magic will weaken her
* team ame has instant wincons
* geo increases gravity on projectiles to prevent reaching and contain explosions
* superboy deflects projectiles with ttk
* and pushes off aim from range
* samus missiles not mach bc dont look like mach
* bullets samus shoots have ricocheted making them slower
* some vague speed feats
* "i was a millisecond too slow" is not 1ms perception
-idk could be with a character who otherwise reacts in similar timeframes
* edward slow anyway
* ian 20 appearances, 8 bullet timing feats
* superboy bulletproof, why react to bullets tbh
* but also react to missiles, protec gril from bullet, grab missile, catch arrow from off panel
* geo interacts with guns like 4 times, 2x block with gravity, 2x hit from behind
* arrow speed tendrils and a shitload of them
* electric attacks fast
* basically a flamethrower but can make anyone who grapples him be on fire

very solid, but i would rather you didn't say feats were better than your opponents' without directly comparing them

Fem R2
* ian has no answer to "edward rips his witchblade arm off and throws it somewhere"
* geo cant accelerate in the air, can be shot down
* superboy fails to break out of ice, and gets mogged by ice beam + super missile
* edward knows these things and will relay them to team
* knows what advantages team ame has, including travel speed and danger relative to other teammates
* samus shoots down any projectiles
* diana blocks any projectiles
* team ame cannot do damage at range
* samus has multiple mach projectiles that don't have a ballistic component that geo can shut down
-i dont think whether or not the projectiles have a ballistic component is what determines if geo can shut them down, wouldn't increasing gravity on any particular projectile massively alter their flight path, or are you saying the missiles are tracking and can accelerate through 20x gravity
* diana restrains anyone at range with 30t lifting
* edward throws hard
* team ame cannot group due to aoe, if blitz then diana makes you fuck off
* diana takes out footing, puts you in position for piercing and blunt
* samus makes traps with explosives that force disengage or outright loss
* acrobatic, can disengage quickly
* edward waits for distraction, rips apart
* neck kisses uwu
* in cqc, you get stabbed by diana, ripped apart by edward, or blasted by samus
* if team fem gets disadvantaged, diana makes the fuckoff move and resets neutral or samus drops nades on you
* if you disengage, edward bites your head off
* diana's bullet timing is better than team ame, ame says "comparable at best" but why? diana is doing it like 30x in a row vs once or twice
-this is actual factuals
* diana consistently operates at these speeds, whereas team ame "doesnt interact with bullets very often" which is lol, diana blitzfucks your team prove they're fast all the time
* why is diana's blunt dura not enough to survive an extended bout
* she's shaking off a similar hit to what superboy puts out
* diana has a 100% success rate vs bullets, is always fast, this makes up for lack of piercing resist
* this is a sonic boom, it's called artistic liberty sweaty
* plus other mach projectiles have similar rings in the comic
* anyway real life shit travels at the same subsonic speeds as samus's shit if it is subsonic and they're completely reactable to her
* samus raises her arm, aims, fires, re-aims, fires again in 10-20ms, basically does several actions in that time which indicates faster reactions
* 19ms/shot in other feats, 6ms limb movement
* samus is always fast
* samus's regular blasts were never argued to be OHKOs, they just can't be ignored
* ame called a scan vague that is relatively explicit
* hitting a heavy opponent through reinforced concrete is good and will allow for disengage
* engaging samus in the first place will be very difficult
* and has dura to take hits when she needs to
* the piercing dura "explosion" feat ame called out is actually fairly explicitly piercing dura
* samus does not have electric dura but that doesnt matter if ame doesn't show scans of his team using it
* in fiction "a millisecond" sometimes isn't a millisecond but in twilight it probably is
* ame says 10ms is slow for the tier but calls a 13ms feat decent last round, which is it pal
-fax get his ass
* acktchually vampires lift several hundred x their own weight not just 100x
-yeah but he knows and said as much in chat smh nice dunk tho
* edward is a 30 tonner before accounting for his actual weight
* "i doubt he could hurt my team" foh, lethal poison, piercing > your team, grappling, relevant speed, detects weaknesses
* boulder probably large, and also boulder probably large ?
* edward's dura might not be stellar but it's not irrelevant, plus he'll know when someone targets him
* team ame doesnt have a cohesive plan of attack posited, or even general strategies pertaining to synergy
* why should i accept unlinked claims for ian nottingham
* why can ian nottingham absorb diana if he's made to absorb the witchblade and darkness, topcowshit, as opposed to dceushit
-eh, this could be a good point but i'm not sold on it
* catching projectiles makes him lose vs samus
* team fem manipulates battle distance pretty easily and can stop him from getting in range
* plus he has to stop and concentrate to absorb magic
* edward will notice and stop him
* geo has floated one person ever question mark?
* edward will aimdodge geo
* also if he does float edward what stops samus from just shooting him
* why can't diana throw shit at him to make him stop
* samus lifts a big missile so she passes the liftcheck
* plus she's been fine after a grav attack anyway
* ttk will be planned around by team fem - "stay off floor, dont get grabbed"
-ok idiot they're both touching the air, checkmate
* he goes for melee first in the same scan anyway
* ian is a consistent bullet timer, sure, but he still loses in cqc to any member of team fem
* plus bullet timing 8 times is not "maintains bullet timing speeds"
* ian's striking feat is pretty unclear
* tendrils not relevant at distance
-idt he argued them at distance in particular but rather as an antigrappling measure
* fire and electricity irrelevant until speed provided
* diana shields team and has great fire and electric resistance
* electric character isnt the one ame's running
-this is probably witchbladeshit
* bite force doesn't scale linearly to size
-https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347140961568161792/808042285925269544/what_lol.png
* tendrils dont affect edward because he's more durable than a car door or a lizard
* what attack is the witchblade tanking?
* no hunting rifle in this fight, irrelevant to blades and arrows
* edward's piercing > a hunting rifle
* blocking handgun fire means nothing
* durg resist and poison resist are not the same
* witchblade gets frozen
* featless heat
* superboy's feat is irregular for him and surprises him too and is also worse than samus's similar feat
* the missile catch is good
* is there any context to when superboy starts moving in the arrow catch
* if superboy isn't typically endangered by projectiles why would he dodge here, where it will get him killed and also he doesn't know that
* superboy probably won't be able to engage without taking hits on the way in, getting pushed around, etc.
* and when he does hit it won't oneshot any member of my team
* strikes break material and dont pulverize it
-idt this criticism of ame's striking feats is necessarily super salient
* jerking around samus's aim doesnt actually advance a wincon so if he does it he's wasting time
* superboy is pretty consistently staggered
* "i lift more" isn't winning the grapple, people grapple outside their weight class constantly
* superboy is weaker than edward at a baseline anyway
* and diana can cut superboy fine
* geo has one bullet timing feat
* he gets hits by bullets while distracted, which is what my team will do
* BRICK FEAT BRICK FEAT BRICK FEAT FOOL
* can't seem to grav energy attacks
* graving missiles doesn't do that much since it's just meant to scatter your team
* diana takes a similar hit better than geo-force
* lifting memes
* batarangs cause bleed damage
* can be frozen

extremely solid rebuttals, good presentation of battle plan and general strategy, well done

Ame R2
* fleeing is the only strategy that satisfies every one of fem's win cons
-idt this is true:
* 1 is true, communication is a fair point to raise
* 2 is untrue, iirc samus was argued to disrupt geo if he floats edward and diana and samus were argued to basically pair up
* 3 this was argued yes but with the caveat that diana was acting as buffer in most instances
* 4 is untrue, fem argued edward reads geo-force's thoughts and aimdodges his pointing
* 5 is untrue, fem argued edward rips ian apart and also that ian's magic absorption was slow and would allow for disruption from samus/ww
* art does take liberties
* the evidence geo can manipulate grav is that he does it, not that the line exists or looks like that
* the rings are however meant to be evidence and they dont look the part
* the spikes around the gun are the muzzle flash
* takes 100ms for an rpg to accelerate to 300m/s, exits at 117m/s so about 3x slower
-i dont think the central claim was refuted here: "the bullets have rings similar to the missiles, the bullets are supersonic and that is the indication, the missiles have rings and are as such supersonic as well"
* ricochet feat is 30ms
-fem didnt deny this, 30ms is between 21 and 32, the argument was that samus completed at least 5 actions in this time frame
* dash feat is aim dodging over unclear time frame
-yeah
* mowing a crowd down with a machine gun isnt a reaction feat
-tru
* not bullet timing bc no evidence she moved after bullet was fired
* beams dont do anything
* team ame tanks the kick crater
* 3 bombs to destroy some robots, missile craters dirt
* beam and ice cannon have no clear speed
* missiles blocked by grav or dismantled with ttk
* samus's dura is below team ame's striking
* rando monster =/= bullet timing human, how does she dodge someone fast
* samus doesnt actually stay at range that much
* no electricity resistance
-post feats howard
* ww moves much less than ian or superboy in her bullet timing feats
* worse volume in boulder slash than team ame can take
* tackle is eh, doesn't do that much
-compare feats you fucking woward
* disarming ww is clearly not that difficult
* lasso has no speed feats
-he literally did post the feat where it blocks bullets by spinning in a circle
* ww cant take like 20 good hits
-why, she's clearly fine after this one
* dodging and blocking bullets isn't the same thing as cqc esp when your opponents are dog tier comapred to you
* the attack the shield scales to is piercing and if it wasn't it isn't close to how hard team ame hits
* text doesn't say he perceived a single millisecond
* 10ms isn't irrelevant but it's slow
* striking is all wood busting
* team ame has piercing feats that counter edward's teeth, edward has no feats of chewing metal
* cracking a 4ft dia stone of unknown thickness is worse than team ame striking and dura
-striking isn't being argued as edward's kill move here, i don't really know why so much time is being spent on it
* a 1ft rock would be enough to distract someone undertier
* team ame beats edward up in a few hits
* samus doesn't avoid cqc
-these albums include one where she disengages after being forced into cqc and another where she makes distance with her gun and uses it primarily to fight her opponent as opposed to her fists except when she has to physically be in the way to protect joey
* ww won't use her sword bc ares no-sold and destroyed her sword
* she rarely uses the sword first anyway
* edward spent the whole fight with victoria feinting and lunging
-to preserve a position between her and bella, with a fairly equal opponent, which is not what fem is arguing your team to be
* edward just rips the arm off a distracted enemy who was already weakened
-like fem is arguing he does to your team, yes
* edward doesnt memory dive
* can only read 2 people at once
* cant read memories
* team ame would have to think the information pertaining to strengths and weaknesses
* the witchblade also thinks and acts independent of the user and is unpredictable as such
* ian scales to previous witchblade users
* why would he catch things that he doesn't know if they'll hurt him, it just shows he's fast and bullet times
* witchblade detects supernatural enemies and assesses threat levels, will know ww is magic and dangerous
* ian fast bc scales to sara pezzini, bullet timer
* ian building feat is a punch, witchblade is strong
-not the strongest evidence but i dont really see a way he accomplishes that feat otherwise
* tendrils attack from several directions
* dozens of tendrils
* blocking isn't good, tendrils channel electricity, shield won't help because they go around or through
* electricity is light speed, ian shocks with a touch
* the three hits in the ian feat are better than any of fem's team's hits
* spino is big and built similar to crocs
* arms used, not tendrils
* witchblade will shred edward if he grapples
* witchblade will regrow arm if it gets ripped off
-if the witchblade gets ripped off?
* witchblade durable to piercing
* witchblade heals stab wounds
* witchblade recovers from freezing in time to get back up and stab the person who froze her
* and lets users take big fire blasts
* superboy is fast
* and will dodge shit he doesn't know if it will hurt him, bullets are just meaningless
* ttk dismantles samus's suit, escapes grapples, sends missiles back at samus, throws enemies off roof or trips them, aim jerk was subconscious from before he knew about ttk, should require no concentration
* superboy not injured by hit
* fine hit through bus, cratering asphalt
* hits are not antifeats, are superior to anything fem's team can put out
* lifts between 16 and 40 tons of liquid nitrogen
* also orange juice 23t, with truck 40t
-how do you get a 34,000lb truck for that
* lifts yacht, train engine, is better lifter than edward
* superboy is cut by a magical dagger made to not heal the wound
* ww's sword isn't magically sharp or anything, it's just a sharp sword that is also magic
* geo can find opponents anywhere with geokinesis if they're on the ground
* geo can block energy attacks with rocks
* deathstroke is fucking with geo's mind when he looks like he just discovered 4loko
* and m1 abrams is 60t feat, edward cant grapple someone 2x stronger, flexes out of redwoods
* azrael feat is from the 90s, geo's dura gets better over time
* freeze blast is bigger than samus's ice beam, it did work, but he doesnt care about the cold aspect
-how bout the immobility aspect
* ian passively absorbs magic
-he's clearly like, having to take it all in in that scan tho, he's not just continuing on his merry way
* succs ww within 10ft
* geo floats foes several times
* can apply this over a large area
* doesnt need to maintain grav with holding position
* geo has free arm, if ww fights him she's not protecting samus from superboy who oneshots her
* "explicitly only survived the grav attack with morph ball"
-where does it say that
* grav crushes samus, not the suit
* samus has to never ever be touched by superboy in this fight
* superboy goes for the ttkable shit immediately

there were some lines of argumentation that i wasn't really a fan of, but overall this is a good response for continued assertion of physical superiority

Fem R3
* superboy is slow, he has two speed feats
* geo has one bullet timing feat in decades of appearances
* ian catches bullets, accepts melees, which is bad
* ww and samus individually have more and better bullet timing than geo and superboy combined
* you cant just bullet time once and end the fight
* diana bullet times really hard
* edward 10ms
* samus completes several actions in 10-30ms with high rate of fire
* samus does not have automatic fire, feat is 19ms/shot
* samus jumps in the timeframe it takes for bullets to reach her
* not talking about the spikes, talking about the rings
* team fem is very consistently bullet timing
* also they fight well, dodging, blocking, etc at those speeds
* singular isolated speed feats are much worse than consistently being fast
* team keeps fighting through damage and can tank a lot
* the way team fem fights disinclines any actual test to their durability
* witchblade has mediocre piercing electricity and heat
* samus is near a sun and fine, diana absorbs heat fine, edward is more durable than a falmethrower proof missile proof tank proof car
* when does geo actually do any graving of the person inside the suit as opposed to the whole deal, plus samus's suit is resistant anyway
* team fem strong
* ian's feat shows no aftermath, no way to know what state he was in after the hit
* superboy's dura is basically just cherrypicking
-idt this is super duper true in isolation but it is in the context of "take a bunch of these hits in the next 100ms or you die"
* geo is just weak
* samus's thermal vectors immobilize
* diana's sword is sharp and she hits hard
* edward's venom is fucking obnoxious
* he's strong and grabs hard
* and his teeth are dummy piercing
* ice works on witchblade dudes, poison resist is 0, piercing does not scale anywhere near my team, and no answer tog etting grabbed and lego'd
* superboy immobilized by ice, no poison resistance, no piercing on edward's level
* geo has no poison dura, ice immobilizes him, no piercing resist on edward's or ww's level, doesn't grapple, and edward literally eats him if he ever stops
* edward grapples
* edward reads minds really fucking hard
* and your team will definitely think about the fight in terms edward can take and advantage from
* samus disengages here's a ton of evidence
* pointing out the diana stip is cheap, it's clearly meant to refer to the mental state
* geo has to do a lot of shit to do the things ame needs him to do
* and his geokinesis tophvision isn't real
* edward can literally Just Dodge and that's it
* how does superboy engage, if he's with his team he's slow because they're slow, if he's fast he gets 3v1'd immediately
* ian cannot absorb diana's powers in a relevant time frame to not get smacked
* if the witchblade hates men, why does ian scale to sara's feats
* ame has not presented any strategy in particular for how his team will fight

savagery

Ame R3
* samus weak, 6" of concrete
-you said this was 1ft in your first response
* superboy, geo, and ian all hit harder than this
* no electricity feats so ian shocks her
* ww takes hits comparable to superboy, ian and geo hit harder than superboy
* edward takes hits that crack a boulder, has no electricity resist
* ttk is instant and strong
* if superboy gets to samus he can grapple her, she cannot escape
* suit can be ttk'd
* witchblade piercing is better than edward piercing because they're both metal
-idt this is actually true, edward's teeth are here argued and not refuted by you to be more sharp against steel-analogous skin than human teeth are to human skin, whereas the witchblade just pierces a car door which is probably like, aluminum
* tendrils can attack from several angles
* geo didnt crush the mech bc it ate katana
* first move against some opponents is to grav them
* superboy durable
* superboy piercing dura good
-the king shark thing looks very fake, the "mechanized, metallic armor" looks like space suit shit, not a whole metal deal
* superboy is fine touching brimstone and is fine after being frozen solid
* knife was enchanted to cut superboy specifically
* geo durable
* to piercing that cuts through metal
-again this isn't steel in any significant amount as is being argued edward pierces with his teeth by fem
* geo dura good
* ian durable
* witchblade blocks itself and rifle
* plus can make a shield
* witchblade takes heat that slags metal
-it looks like what it's slagging is witchblade material
* tank being frozen solid
* ian has full witchblade, not just excalibur, so his dura is better
* watchblade users durable
* samus blasts are bad, good blast needs charge time of several seconds
* screw attacks don't do anything
* ice beam not fast
* ice is weak and thin
* geo contains explosions with gravity, drops her missiles
* superboy redirects or disassembles missiles
* witchblade absorbs energy from her energy blasts
-why didn't you link this scan before now
* ww shatters marble but it's less than what it takes to hurt team ame
* has sword but easily disarmed
* superboy and geo double edward's lifting, he cant grapple them, and ian's is near enough not to get eaten
-this doesn't actually address the claim that edward can outgrapple someone stronger than him, and as argued geo and superboy are not grapplers in particular in the same way edward is
* ian shreds edward if he grapples
-fem said this doesn't matter
* ripping ian's arm off doesn't do anything because the witchblade will just grow a new one
* biting through steel is vague and doesn't pierce team ame anyway
-this sounds fake
* superboy fast
* geo does the bullet thing twice
* geo points at bullet time speed and has hitscan gravity
* ian fast
* regularity doesn't mean anything
-this doesn't at all refute the central point of fem's argument that your team besides ian isn't again and again doing things in timeframes relevant to bullets, just affirms the central claim that these are feats in isolation and they aren't or even can't do them again and again and again like fem's team is posited to be able to
* ww just moves her arms in bullet time
* samus feats take place in x ms
* the automatic feat is not reaction
-it was a rate of fire feat and as far as i'm concerned it still stands as 19ms/shot
* missiles are not supersonic bc rings dont match
* edward doesnt restrain then rip or bite
* against victoria he baits for a long time
* edward doesnt open with grapples
-this would be a much much much stronger point if you pointed out him opening with something that is not grappling against an opponent more similar to your team and in more similar circumstances than the fight with victoria
* cant read deep memories
-idt this was claimed
* cant read 3 minds at once
-the scan fem posted had edward sitting in a cafeteria, hearing actually explicitly no shit HUNDREDS of thoughts at once
* edward cant read the witchblade's thoughts and as such won't be able to read ian's because he's fully merged with it
-should've made this point before this response, why the fuck did you wait
* samus doesn't abuse ranged advantage
* never more than 20ft from opponents, which is in ttk range
* ww never uses anything piercing on ares
-she thought the dude she's trying to stab was ares
* she gets disarmed easily anyway
* ian is a master swordfighter, superboy disarms with ttk
-make these fucking points in an earlier response than response 3
* didnt use it against superman, why use it against superboy
-bruh
* barely uses it against humans and she doesn't bisect them
* no reason to block projectiles if he plus gravs her and null gravs edward
* geo multitasks often
* pointing in edward's general direction will tag him
-this doesn't actually seem to counter the precog
* superboy goes for dismantling mechanical enemies
* ian absorbs the magicks
* witchblade likes ian and not any other men

your win cons are still strong

Okay, this was a fucking doozy to sit and judge. I think I was at it for like four hours on Superbowl Sunday.

I think the win conditions constructed by Fem under the conditions outlined are enough to beat Ame's team overall, even though Ame's win conditions and overall powersets are really fucking strong on their own. Fem's team has pretty good physicals in the first place and I don't think any member of Ame's team actually survives the 1v1 with him, but as argued they don't even get the chance. Ame saved a lot of good points that might've swung the match for response 3, which in my mind means they should've been brought up sooner, especially considering most of the important points in this debate were there from the get-go, and also means I can't count the new claims.

I say "they don't even get the chance" to 1v1 Edward because as argued, Edward isn't blitzing, he's hearing their thoughts and going off of that, so when Geoforce decides "i'm gonna null grav this entire area" Edward gets the fuck out of dodge before that actually happens. I thought several of the point Ame brought up against Edward were not at all good ("can't read 3 minds at once" when Fem linked Edward hearing hundreds of thoughts at once, "this fight where he has to maintain position against an opponent with similar physicals in order to protect a nearby person made of paper mache is similar enough to the fight here that it tells us he won't open with blitz+grapple" when the circumstances here are wildly wildly different).

I think Samus is sufficiently disruptive even if Geoforce is attentive in attacking her, because it basically means Edward has run of the place. I think Fem's counter to "20x grav on Samus specifically" was good and worked, I think Geo is probably just increasing grav on the whole person and suit combo. Ame never actually specifically countered "Edward grapples above his weight class", just posited that Geoforce and Superboy were stronger lifters without rebutting "he can do this despite that", instead relying on the disparity to do the argumentative work.

I don't think Ian's magic absorption is going to be extremely effective in this fight because he would have to engage with Diana for a long time even if it were passive, and I'm not sure he actually can. I generally bought the arguments from Fem that said, "even if you can in isolation perform feats in bullet-relevant time frames, that doesn't mean you can do it 30x in a row". I think Fem sufficiently demonstrated that basically any action his team was going to take was going to be 1) in a relevant time frame to Ame's team, 2) consistently that, and 3) constant and repeated and his characters will do that over and over again.

Geo-Force was fucking strong in this fight, and he's basically the crux of whether or not I think Ame wins. But as is, I don't think any member of team Ame can stand to getting bitten by Edward, and I think Samus is disruptive and has a buffer of Diana that allows her to be that constantly, and Diana can hold her own against any member of Ame's team.

I'm giving the win to Fem, but it was extremely close due to the raw power Ame's team brought to the table.