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  1. The Gridcoin Fireside #17 - Building a Treasury
  2.  
  3. 00:00:05 Hello and welcome to another episode of Gridcoin Fireside. Today is August 15th and we are going to build off the last three episodes and talk about our treasury system, what it means and how we might build one if we want to build the grid coin fireside is to get together a grid coin participants takes place every Thursday 8pm, EDT on a grid coin discord server. Everyone's welcome to join the discussion through the voice chat text chat where you can just sit back and listen. If you say something
  4.  
  5. 00:00:28 the relevant and the text chat we'll bring it into the recording and you'll get your voice on the podcast. That's awesome. If you want us to cover, want us to cover a specific episode in the future regarding anything cryptocurrency or grid coin or science related. Feel free to reach out to one of your friendly hosts, your hosts being myself, Jay Ringo, and down below. As always we've got the Goblin pop in the corner. Yeah, down below to your back, your back below. Get down. I want the corner. All right. Well, occupying the corner with Goblin on the sofa chair is, I like chocolate and because here, whispering his way into the room.
  6.  
  7. 00:01:06 Yeah. Hello.
  8.  
  9. 00:01:08 And of course everyone, I'm stealing your catch, phrase? Yellow is his catch phrase? Ya-llow. You got to sound way more Russian.
  10.  
  11. 00:01:14 You don't so least
  12.  
  13. 00:01:15 I never until that kinetic. Oh, I'm told no, I'm totally, I'm totally Russian chocolate. Russian. Yeah. And that was the question. That's fine. He tried all right. You tried. You're not, you're not in a Russian. It's a different region of Russia. China,
  14.  
  15. 00:01:34 if you want to sell it, you got to put time into it. You kept the rushing. They things.
  16.  
  17. 00:01:41 If you don't, if you don't cut that I quit. Oh Man. Okay. Right into the news here. We've no project brief this week. Delta's, which those are biweekly presentations next week or not next week. Cause when you're taking the week off next week, so the last Thursday of August, which is August 29th he will be talking about world community grid. Be sure to check that out. It should be a fun one. WCG is a very large Boeing project. They do a lot of work, both developing BOINC itself and maintaining the community and just doing pretty cool science with data projects. So keep an ear to the ground for that one step. Today we're just going to go straight to the news and then we'll get into the topic. And there's not much for news this week. It mostly has to do with polls a. So there's the white paper poll which did close and it was validated. Last I checked, it was about at 50%. AVW. So that's a pretty good validation considering, uh, in that past as a yes. So that is the new content for the new white paper. Uh, we are going to move into a design process and we're going to polish it up a little bit, maybe the terminology page. Uh, and I still need to implement the one suggestion that is going to be implemented, which is clarifying a bit in the economic section.
  18.  
  19. 00:02:53 Why not? Why not talk about, uh, what this has been a change that you might be, you know, people might not have read the proposal.
  20.  
  21. 00:03:01 Sure, sure. So the new white paper is basically a redefinition of the grid coin network building off of the first definition, which was the original white paper that I put together with a group of people. Uh, this new one is just, it's a little clearer. It's a little more in depth. It's a little more of a white paper than that first one. Uh, so it will help a lot in outreach. It is the sort of second layer, uh, introduction to grid coin. So the first one is the website as something like the website, at least the first layer. Um, so people would go to the website, they'd be like, oh, that's grid coin all right, I want to learn a little more. They'd click around the website, they'd be a little bit, and then they'd find the white paper and the white paper would go into more depth on exactly how grid coin is run.
  22.  
  23. 00:03:44 And then ideally we will have a blue paper, which would be like a third layer of outreach where if someone wants to learn even more on a technical level, they would go to the blue paper. We do have one section of the blue paper written, which was written by Jim Snip and chocolate. And that has to do with the way proof of stake works in grid coin and it's a really good technical paper. Uh, you can find the blue paper on grid coined that world. Um, I think someone is trying to make a pull request to get it on the gridcoin.us website as well. Uh, so that's what the new white paper does is it basically just clarifies things that make it a little easier for outreach. It's something you can give to people at conferences and stuff like that as well. Uh, besides that, Paul, the other pole that passed and was validated was the reimbursement polls. So that means, uh, me f king leg and loaded anvils are getting 200 USD equivalent for our presentations at the, uh, BOINC workshop the couple months ago in July. Uh, so thank you everyone for voting in that we really appreciate it is, uh, it, it inspires me.
  24.  
  25. 00:04:52 Oh shoot. You're right. That one ends August 19th. So you can still vote in that one. It is validated and it is, uh, the, the winning option is the 200 USD. Uh, so there's still a chance that it could switch. Uh, cause do you remember you can change your vote until the end of a poll. So as far as I always remember, cause I didn't know this when I first joined. Uh, you're not voting multiple times. You're just changing your vote. The, he was like my first poll and it was like a question about colors. I'm pretty sure it was something about like, what's your favorite color? That was my favorite poll. It's purple with that. No, no. I know. I think he's onto something. It's, it's green.
  26.  
  27. 00:05:32 All right, right, right. I missed that one right there. My head orange twice. My favorite color growing up. It's blue now. Nethlik's, psychic. It's freaking me out a little bit guys. Yeah. They moving along here at the other pole that is running right now is the proposal for a new website. Essentially it is a redesign of the grid coin u s website put together by a largely myself and who staring at the robotic mind and smuggle OSU. Uh, shmoogle does lot of development for the gridcoin.us website. Uh, the other guys have helped to put together and are going to help put together the content. Should this poll pass. Uh, the site will be designed and will be designed by Mad Max Payne who is going to be doing the design for the white paper now that that has passed. And he also designed the Gui Gui assets.
  28.  
  29. 00:06:24 Uh, so that will be designed uniformity and yes, I'm sorry, robotic mind robotic right now. So there's a lot of development for a gridcoin.US and anyone is welcome to do development for that stuff in the web Dev Channel and slack. Um, yeah. So this gridcoin.world proposal basically says, let's rebuild the website from the ground up with design principles in mind. Uh, basically acknowledging that the gridcoin.us website was designed a long time ago, uh, without a lot of design principles in mind. It's served its purpose very well and it's time to build something a little more, uh, accessible to just the general population. Uh, the proposal is asking for $2,500 in funding. Half of that would be raised from the community and then the other half would be fund matched by d foundation. Uh, and there's a bunch of information in the proposal about how that would work in terms of if we don't raise the money to fund match it then we basically won't build the site. But read the proposal for that. It's hard to describe right here without the proposal in front of me that poll is going till September 5th. Be sure to vote in that, uh, that it needs 40% AVW to be validated as well cause it is an outreach proposal. Uh, are there any questions under the dot world proposal by the way? Cause we, that was released last Thursday, uh, and I am here. I put it together and I'm here to answer questions. If anyone's got any questions or concern about what that would mean.
  30.  
  31. 00:07:50 Yeah, I have a question. What's the point? Not trying to sound mean or anything. I just don't see the point in making a second website. So would be a second website. It would be a
  32.  
  33. 00:08:00 basement of the u s website. And the point is that the u s website is ad it's not friendly. Honestly, it is not an accessible website. There's walls, some texts. It's not designed by a designer. It was put together sort of, I think it was cm who largely built it and great site for someone who just like built a website for a grid coin. Uh, but it was not designed with design principles in mind, which is things like progressive disclosure where you, you introduce the concepts on the homepage and then you guide the user through the site. So they learn what grid coin is without really realizing they're learning what grid coin is. A, it would use cards and info graphs more than walls of text and tables. Uh, it would consolidate the website into, I think it's, Oh, I forgot. I, I went through so many different design process or design, uh, drafts, I think it's nine pages.
  34.  
  35. 00:08:54 So we'd consolidate a website. Right now the grid coin u website is very large. Uh, we have the navigation bar and then each item on the Nav bar has a dropdown menu. It's very difficult to sort of navigate through the site and find everything you want to find right away. Uh, I know just personally, people who have gone to the site and just stopped there because it's not accessible. They don't, they're not able to easily find what they want to find. Um, so the point of the new site is to make things, uh, essentially as I've said, more accessible to people from the outside. It would introduce them to grid coin, introduced them to cryptocurrency and then introduce them to the different ways they can participate in the network from crunching to building a BOINC project to, uh, to developing, to contributing outside of code development.
  36.  
  37. 00:09:42 But why it differently? It's just a replacement. The investment put it on people already know.
  38.  
  39. 00:09:46 So first I will read what Nick says here and then I'll answer that. So he's saying the website is our official introduction to anyone who is now part of grid coin is not sufficient that the website has other aid information. There also has to have the right look and feel. People might make spot judgements based on how things look. Those impressions can either enhance or impede adoption. Absolutely. So the point of the grid coin dot World URL, uh, is that the grid coin.us domain in my opinion just sounds a off pudding to anyone who doesn't live in the u s uh, ideally we would be using something like grid coin dot network, but that is being used as a black explorer right now. A grid coin dot world in my view, speaks to us being a global currency. We're not just the United States currency. Uh,
  40.  
  41. 00:10:32 [inaudible], Eh, already take grid point out what, dot info. I think that would be a better year, but I have no idea.
  42.  
  43. 00:10:40 Uh, it might be, it might not be the one we have is good coin dot world. Uh, and uh, I've, the feedback I've gotten on that domain is that there's much better than grid coin dot us. Uh, robotic minds. Just saying here that the grid coin dot us, we'll probably end up redirecting it to the same place as gridcoin dot world. If this poll passes again a ... Yeah, we could get another domain. At this point though, since the word is out there, there are probably people squatting on a bunch of URL names that we couldn't use anymore because they're squatting on it cause they know we're looking to build a new websites. When we were putting this proposal together, we discussed it. The people who put the proposals together and said, what's the, uh, what's the domain we should use? And we settled on grid coin dot world because it was available. It wasn't expensive to squat on and it feels appropriate. It we're a world currency for a global currency. We're a global network. Uh, let's use a global domain. That world, uh, the US domain comes, it's a legacy domain from rob. Rob, I think bought that domain. Uh, so we're, we're sort of moving beyond that point in our history. I think
  44.  
  45. 00:11:44 that doesn't seem to be anything on dot info. And I just think that [inaudible]
  46.  
  47. 00:11:48 that's perfectly fine. I will say we're not going to switch it from dot world unless there's like a huge swell of support for it.
  48.  
  49. 00:11:56 Dot Info.
  50.  
  51. 00:11:58 Any other questions on the sorts of intent and process of dot world? All right. Uh, what other news [inaudible] the voting to get it on txbit exchange is still going on. We are absolutely crushing. Uh, we're at 206 votes. The next highest is five. That's at five. Yeah. Keep it up guys. We might lose it, right? Uh, do keep it up, uh, though because it is nice to be able to then take the results of this poll to other outlets to other places we might look to get involved with and say, look at how active our community is. We were completely destroying this poll from the beginning, but we didn't stop there. We kept going. This is how dedicated our community is. This is, uh, it's just a good thing to be able to show other people. So let's see. If we can't get that up to 300 votes, you can vote once every 24 hours. Uh, you have to register an account and two factor, authenticate it.
  52.  
  53. 00:12:56 Maybe you know the other polls fairly for you. Also it's to learn six [inaudible].
  54.  
  55. 00:13:00 Awesome. Keep the voting coming. Uh, so yeah, that will be a new exchange for us actually when this passes, uh, that Poll Ends August 27th so that is something to look forward to. That's pretty awesome. Uh, Barton put this together by the way, so if you see him, give him a shout out. So thank you. Uh, yeah, keep the voting going. The link will be in the description below. Uh, speaking of the description below, I will apologize right now to everyone who took part in last week's discussion and the, the episode hasn't been uploaded yet. It's been edited. It's been a pain in my butt, edited it because it was such a long discussion in our destiny. Does that like long recordings? So I'm working on it. I got to rebuild it. Re edited it. Hopefully I can finagle it to work. Patients pleased as I get this to work. I think you can see attendance. They just posted the, I GitHub, a thread for the grid coin.world proposal and final news I think unless anyone has anything else is the Emoji contest for me, myself and I, which as again, thank you people. Thank you people.
  56.  
  57. 00:14:04 Thank you guys for putting that together. It really does mean a lot and I think it's ended and I think I'm going to be a trebuchet
  58.  
  59. 00:14:11 that was so stupid. I showed them the power of fossils literally being another submission had more than three votes I noticed before, but you're going to keep them. One of them is robotic painters put it up so people could vote on the first blue. So yeah, the most popular, he's got three votes each as with five, so that was not a good plan
  60.  
  61. 00:14:29 in my defense. I mean I think he did just fine. In my defense, I did ask for an age of empires theme and it's the only age of empires, a Emoji they could put up there, so I am happy with it. I would have also accepted a monk or a phalanx or a centaur. Wow. A centurion bound solo.
  62.  
  63. 00:14:51 I posted a cowboy. That's pretty much a monk. Right?
  64.  
  65. 00:14:56 Okay.
  66.  
  67. 00:14:57 They both wake up in the morning, then go throughout the day and then go to bed at night. It's pretty much the same thing
  68.  
  69. 00:15:03 that makes all of us the same thing. We're all people, although robotic mind does bring up a good point. Who's to say we're people so
  70.  
  71. 00:15:10 nope. Disrupt my narrative.
  72.  
  73. 00:15:13 All right, so that is all the news this week. Uh, does anyone else have anything else that I might've missed here? Grid coin, community news. Alright then. Whew. Oh my emojis in here. Yay. Oh, that's fun.
  74.  
  75. 00:15:25 Oh yeah, there are all the ways [inaudible].
  76.  
  77. 00:15:28 Yeah. All right. That's like your mic man. It is. It's so hummy. It is so hommy. Alright, then we will move into the main discussion for tonight, which is treasuries in these sort of systems. I guess in blockchain system. Uh, this is something I personally have talked about for over a year, almost two years. I first wrote a simple skeleton outline for what a Treasury might look like back in January of 2018 posting on get hub. I'll have that link in the description below. Um, and since then we have seen in the cryptocurrency space, treasury start to pop up for coins. The thinking behind the treasury. Well, first a treasury is simply a means to collect money. Uh, how you distribute that money is a different thing. Uh, that can come in forms of a budget or whatever. But, uh, treasury acknowledges that it costs money to develop things and it also acknowledges that there are ways, different ways to collect money.
  78.  
  79. 00:16:21 So the point is let's figure out how to do it and then fund things moving forward. Now in the cryptocurrency space, we are in a unique position that as chocolate, so delicately put it last week, we're minting our own currency. The fact that we can't fund things while we are minting our own currency is a little bit ridiculous. I think he's absolutely right, right when he says that at. So what we've seen in this space is there are coins like dash for example, where every, there's a percentage of every block reward that goes directly into a treasury. Uh, and then through the dash system, they've figured out how to distribute those funds to different, uh, development projects or initiatives. Uh, we have seen coins that are like pre mined or that are ICO where they just take a bunch of the coins at the genesis of the blockchain or the token and they put it directly into a treasury and then they figure out how to distribute those coins from one way or another.
  80.  
  81. 00:17:19 So the Grid Coin Foundation for grid coin is kind of already a treasury. We have it where we sort of have a way to distribute funds. We've got to figure out a better way to do it I think. But it's moving forward. The grid coin dot world proposal is asking for funds that are not development funds. So it's sort of, we're sort of starting that process of how to distribute funds to things that are not code development. Um, the thinking as why we need a treasury, is that exactly what chocolates said, I guess as we, to develop this stuff and we need to pay for, develop this stuff. If we had the funds to run marketing campaigns, we'd be running marketing campaigns. If you don't have the funds to run marketing campaigns, you just straight up cannot run marketing campaigns. People can develop out of passion. People can run communities out of passion, but it's very difficult to do marketing out of passion because marketing just costs money.
  82.  
  83. 00:18:09 If you want to take an ad out in a magazine that costs money, if you want to go to a conference that costs money, if you want to do like very intricate marketing plans, marketing initiatives, those costs a lot of money. We're talking millions of dollars, so we need money to do this stuff. Uh, and we can't continue. We can't just rely on the benevolence of whales to, to fund this stuff. As we discussed last week, there are plenty of opportunities for these wells to fund it and they haven't in the past. Hopefully they will in the future more than they have in the past. But if you just depend on the benevolence of whales, you have to have a very, very, very solid network. An example of that. And the only example of that that I can think of is bitcoin and bitcoin worked because the wells were all, um, oh Goblin, what's the word?
  84.  
  85. 00:18:55 Even evangelists. Angel investors, no evangelists. Someone who believes, just believes you, believer, I think it's evangelists. They were all bitcoin evangelists. So they took the mined early and as soon as the price went up, as soon as they were able to use the bitcoin to do stuff, they did stuff with it immediately. It because they believed in what they were building in alternative form of money and alternative economic system and internal alternative governance system, a cryptographic future, a future that relies on cryptography to secure privacy and monetary transactions. So because they believed so intently intensely in that they had no trouble at all personally using their bitcoin that they got early on to develop foundations, to develop companies and to jumpstart the network effect. I hate to break it to anyone who doesn't already know this grid coin is not like bitcoin. Uh, there are some things we can look at, uh, bitcoin for examples and how to run stuff.
  86.  
  87. 00:19:57 For example, the fact that their whales did do this stuff, but they also had a pretty good amount of whales and they were all very active in the community and they're all very still, most of them are still very active in the community. Grid coin has a few whales there. They participate in voting, they participate in their own way, but they're not nearly like the bitcoin whales of your. So if we can't depend on whales to fund stuff into jumpstart the network factor, we're going to need a treasury. We've already spoken a little bit about how we can find a treasuries. When we talked about manual rewards claims because of the MRC, you will have fees. So in the original Treasury document I put together in 2018, uh, I called these a fee based, uh, funding so that it's essentially all it is. So when you pay a fee, a portion of it goes to x, a portion of it goes to why portion of it goes z.
  88.  
  89. 00:20:47 And you can determine how you split that up in any way you want. Maybe some of it is mandated to go to development. Maybe some of it is mandated to go to marketing and then some of it is mandated to go somewhere, but the user gets to choose where that somewhere is based on a couple options which we might be able to get into today. Uh, there are also the, so there's fee based funding. There's also block-based funding or black rewards funding. I forget what I called it in the document, but um, that's basically what dash does where every, let's say to use grid coins for word structures and example if we meant or c for every state block, maybe one of those GRC, instead of going to the stake over the block, it goes to the treasury and we'd have to determine how that treasury, how that GRC gets split up.
  90.  
  91. 00:21:33 Again, maybe some of it is mandated, maybe Senate is mandated with choice, maybe it's all 100% choice. And then you sort of have a nice treasury release system based on the will of the network, which is kind of intricate in interesting and kind of beautiful and says, I bet you use the word protocol. I probably did a protocol based funding guys. It's protocol protocol. Uh, w what kind of funding protocol base. Oh, okay. Um, there it is. Uh, let's just stop there right now. They're, I think they're the two other examples I put in there. One of them is donation and another one is a way I cannot think I've sat my head, I cannot remember off the top my head right now. So, uh, but those are two different ways you can raise it, uh, funds for a treasury. And just to the, this'll be the end of the introduction then we can open up for discussion here.
  92.  
  93. 00:22:24 But I mentioned that you have to find out how to distribute the funds to entities. So the grid coin and dot world proposal is introducing something called um, a verified side staking address this concept. It's introducing a technological concept in an analog way. So it's very experimental right now. And then it's basically just me, uh, donating money to this website and then we'll see how it goes from there. Right. Uh, but the concept and the technical level is that an entity, let's say a BOINC project would register with the grid coin network, verify their existence and maybe there are legal requirements in that process. Uh, but that entity is then a verified side staking address. Everyone knows who owns it and what they're doing and you can then distribute coins to that address without having fear of the person just taking the money and running because they're, they went through a process to get there and if they take the money and run it, it's a failure of the process and not the value of the person and sort of shifts blame from an individual to a protocol.
  94.  
  95. 00:23:32 So that is one way that we can sort of expand on this, take a treasury and find ways to release funds from the Treasury in a pretty interesting way. I if you want to learn more about what verified side staking address this. We can talk about it more here or you can read the proposal a and go into a little bit of detail in the proposal. Introducing the concepts and the benefits of this are a lot of benefits that come with this sort of, um, incubation mechanism where, uh, maybe this entity request funds from the foundation with a percent interest on it. And they have those funds for a term in contract for a contract term, let's say five years. At the end of five years, hopefully they will have built a profitable business. They send that money back with interest. So the foundation just made money while also jumps starting a business in the grid coin ecosystem.
  96.  
  97. 00:24:20 Uh, and there's some other stuff you can do with a verified size. They can dress concept. So that is the treasury way to raise funds. There are several ways to do it directly in the protocol, uh, without having to force anyone to give money to it. I, let's open it up. Are there any thoughts on it? Are there any concerns about making a treasury, uh, or is, is there any confusion about why we even need a treasury? Does everyone think we need a treasury? I remember when I first introduced this, and in 2018 there was, uh, a little bit of hesitation. Oh. And also before I poke Goblin, just so we can fill air time and we'll say that steam just created a treasury system where they, uh, their treasury system is based on the company. Steam has a bunch of funds and they're now putting it into a treasury and they're developing in a way for, uh, people in the community to request funds from the Treasury in a Dow type system.
  98.  
  99. 00:25:18 So this is not a new concept. Cardano has been working very hard at developing a treasury system for their blockchain. There are plenty of others in development. It is something that is, I think, going to be required for many small cap coins in particular. Because again, in order to have an economic network that functions and grows without a treasury, you have to be bitcoin in, we're not that big. So an alternative to a treasury, wouldn't that be like a, like a funded based model, right. Where it could be. Um, I always forget the term which is set, uh, one sec. When you're thinking, I'll read about Hownix, right here it says, people definitely need reassurances about how the treasury will operate and how trust is handled and place where trustless is a big deal. Absolutely. So that is why when I'm doing the gridcoin dot world thing, it is only my funds that are s jump-starting it and only I'm like keeping control of my funds like I can back out at any moment because I'm putting a bit of GRC, it's a hundred thousand years seat down to jumpstart this thing.
  100.  
  101. 00:26:19 Uh, but when you get into, that's the analog test of accounts that when you get into the technical, uh, if we can develop this into a technical mechanism, absolutely, there has to be a, uh, a way to handle it. That is trustless and there are other communities doing it. So we'll be able to learn from what other communities have done. Uh, for example, steam is, has learned from the Dao and you know, the ethereum Dao that got hacked and failed and they've built a different one. So we're going to be able to learn from the ethereum, Dao, the steam, Dao, the maker Dao, all these different DAOs that are working around. And the Daos are more about how they distribute funds. The way to collect funds isn't, I don't think trust, it has nothing to do with trustless. If you put it into a protocol.
  102.  
  103. 00:27:04 So the way dash does it, the, you put funds into the treasury just straight from the block reward and then the handling of the funds and the distribution of the funds is where the trust can. But just growing the treasury, we all think we could just grow the treasury and then not have a way to release funds. That's exactly what the foundation would be if we just remove everyone's access that people who have the keys that we moved their access, we have a treasury, we would just need to figure out how to release the funds. So that's what, that's what I was saying. Uh, so, so sorry, the term I was looking for, it was like contract, right? So like what an alternative to a, to a, uh, to a giant fund be effectively like a, like a protocol based contract where you can, you can make polls for specific activities or specific things people pay into a, an address that's linked to that, to that poll saying, hey guys, if you want to fund this, right, uh, just pay to this address.
  104.  
  105. 00:28:03 And when it hits a specific value, then it, then it goes to that specific, uh, activity. Absolutely. But that is how to distribute funds. The, the raising funds for that activity is the difficult part because if you're just relying on donations, nothing will get done. I don't think it's ever happened in history that I know of. I don't think anything has ever worked just based on donations alone. Uh, so you can have that system in terms of distribution. But to go off of that, to say we do that path, let's say you have 10 GRC per stakes block. When GRC must be donated to an initiative that is, uh, being, uh, sought to be funded. Uh, and if there is no initiative, then it goes to the grid coin foundation or something like that. Uh, then you have the one GRC guaranteed to be funding something.
  106.  
  107. 00:28:55 So that's funding a treasury. What that treasury actually looks like in the end, whether it's one centralized address that people request funds from or whether it's a bunch of ad, it's a bunch of verified side staking addresses that are each running their own initiative, whether it's a bunch of, it's a swarm of distributed, um, initiatives. What that looks like in the end is different than having a mechanism that requires things to be funded from the first place. So you're absolutely right and I think there's a lot of promise in that type of a treasury distribution mechanism or treasury system. But is it relying on donations is something I think we need to get past? No, I, sorry, I didn't mean to push that in a donation sense. I meant to push that in a, a protocol based, uh, capture and mechanism,
  108.  
  109. 00:29:42 right? Like, okay, good. I like, yeah. And it would 100% right. I, I agree. Like relying entirely on donations isn't always the smartest. Right. But, but making it so that people have to have keys to things as opposed to making like [inaudible] and I mean this is the currently active method we have. So which is, which is why I always use it, but like making it so that the polling would activate or deactivate fund releasing without anyone's input and it was only able to really get in and out via polls if they passed a certain value. Right.
  110.  
  111. 00:30:13 Yeah. I think that's a really good idea then. So hold on. Before we get there, does anyone think that having like a protocol based way of raising funds is a bad idea? Because if not, we can start talking about on the second part.
  112.  
  113. 00:30:26 Well, I don't want to detract. Sorry, I didn't make, I dropped, but I don't want to detract from the, from the, from the, the funds. Like you're right. The um, I'm horrible terms tonight. I apologize. Uh, I don't mean to detract from the other. The other topic, it, uh, it just, I see this as an alternative and the only reason I would, I would disagree with any, with anyone regarding the need or existence of having that giant fund would be the possibility of doing this method, which I would see as more community-centric and decentralized and more along our, our general mantra as opposed to the other method, which requires people with keys requires a effectively a board of directors style. Right. But sorry, I cut someone off. Yeah. My question was how is the treasury different from the foundation?
  114.  
  115. 00:31:14 So the foundation has no way to raise funds as the foundation is entirely donation-based. So the treasury to the difference or the distinction that Galvin's talking about right now is between where the funds would go once they're collected, whether they would go to the, uh, to the foundation, which is held by a couple of people, or whether they would go into a contract mechanism, which I think is pretty interesting. So the foundation again is, has no way to raise funds. So a treasury system would say that every out of every state block out of the 10 GRC is just an example. One G or C would go to the foundation or for every MRC fee paid, 10% would go to the foundation. And that's how the MRC, uh, mechanism has been proposed so far with 90% of the fee going to development, which would mean it would go to the foundation and 10% going to the staker.
  116.  
  117. 00:32:05 So to build off to Galvon, I think what you're talking about is really good at yet. And to sort of give an example about that. So let's say, uh, there are three different marketing initiatives that want to get going. Uh, they all put their proposal out, you know, one after the other, whatever, whatever the time frame is there. And, uh, they, they, in the proposal, they say this proposal activates at 100,000 GRC. Uh, so that would mean that, uh, people would be, let's say we were using the 10 GRC stake reward and one GRC must go to fund something. Let's use that s, uh, example right now. So that means every stake black one, GRC would have to go to one of these three proposals. And once that means we'd just go into a contract. And if at any point that a proposal fails that there would be a time limit in the proposal that says we need to raise 100,000 GRC within like a month. Uh, if that month passes and then 100,000 GRC or not raised, then all the funds would go back to the people who donated it. Well, who, who contributed to it? Cause it's a forced donation. So there would be no human interaction there completely. Trustless. And then once the a hundred thousand, if during that month, the a hundred thousand GRC or is raised or surpassed, then the GRC would be, uh, automatically released to the creator of their proposal and they'd be able to deal with it what they wanted. Uh, that's what you're describing, right?
  118.  
  119. 00:33:29 Yeah. Effectively. Yeah. Except like I imagine if I really had to think of an entire stream of it, um, like a, like a wish list, like a, like a, in a perfect world, I would imagine you'd create a poll. The poll would have very specific parameters that you'd have to fill out in order to actually obviously work cause it programmatically has to be picked up. Um, once it got kicked off, it would say, you know, once as long was this poll hits a certain like x amount of traffic, either users magnitude, whatever you set it to, right, the poll, uh, the poll will trigger on the, on the protocol and automatic generation of a wallet address, right? To then act as effectively the location for, for where all the coins are going to be going, right. And then that address will, you know, will redirect all funds towards, towards x location upon receipt of 100,000 in total value, since it has an address, it should be stable, right? Which means technically if you start putting coins into it, if you, if you get to like 900,000, um, and you're like 900,000, 900 and 900 and whatever, right, it'll, it'll be able to actually like stake a little bit. So it'll be earning a little bit on the side to help to help with the actual progress of it. And then, um, once it hits 100,000, given the timeframe that it was that was specified, it would, uh, it would relinquish to the, either the location or
  120.  
  121. 00:34:52 you cut out there at the end.
  122.  
  123. 00:34:53 Sorry, I just, I'm saying I just think that'd be a really cool situation to, to be able to do that. Yeah.
  124.  
  125. 00:34:59 Yeah, I think so too. I think that's a pretty interesting way to do things. I think he could work,
  126.  
  127. 00:35:03 we need Barton here or one of the developers to pretty much tell me where the holes are, but it's not, it's not whether or not the idea is good or not. I, I personally think it's, I mean, I, I think it's a pretty decent idea and I think it's a pretty decent, a way of doing things. And I think it's something that I don't really see any other crypto doing that. I think, uh, [inaudible] in regards like the voting stuff, like the catch and release, I barely shouldn't, there's at least one, but the integration of voting into that, um, uh, on the blockchain I think is not something that's really done. So I think it's a good idea. But the, the, this, that, oh my goodness, sorry. The distinction, uh, being not whether or not it's really good or not, it's whether or not it's feasible given the platform we're on. There are certain limitations we have to follow with, um, with how our protocol is currently structured and how we have to try to avoid to break other things. So
  128.  
  129. 00:35:54 quick question, Goblin. When did you turn 50? When I turned 50 and ironically said, my goodness, I don't care. Stupid, fun little fact that never said a curse word. I believe it. I believe that you would believe that
  130.  
  131. 00:36:10 sipping. Just finally, just to build off that a little bit, that's kind of what a verified side staking address is looking to do. Uh, so basically it's saying someone asks, someone verifies where they are. Maybe they don't need to verify who they are, but in this proposal they do. And then they ask for funds and they can ask it from the foundation or they can ask it from the community. And once the funds are raised there, like all the funds are put into a contract, a smart contract essentially. And once they're raised, those funds must always stay in that wallet. Uh, but they can be used to stake and any fund raise beyond that seeking that that frozen amount of funds can be used by the entity in any way that they see fit. And at the end of the contract, whatever the contract says happens to those original funds happens to those, to those original funds.
  132.  
  133. 00:37:01 So maybe, you know, they asked for a million GRC so they can be a pretty heavy stake in wallet and they use all the stake rewards to fund an initiative and they say after five years, either we will have succeeded or we will have failed. But at the end of five years there's GRC go back to whoever put it in. So if it came from the foundation it goes back to the foundation or it goes back to the person, uh, or maybe they get burned or maybe they stay locked up forever, which has its own set of values as I, I really think it's technically feasible, whether it's technically feasible soon with our current code basis. Another question. Uh, but it, it, the, the idea of voting with money is pretty interesting. Uh, we're where you lock up funds and those funds, once they hit a certain amount, something happens to them. I think that would, uh, it would be interesting if, if the protocol would also allow, again, like I said before, those to stake, cause it's,
  134.  
  135. 00:37:54 you start asking for a decent amount of, of coins. Like, Hey, we got a raise like 1 million GRC in order to pay out this, this initiative. Right? Then you're looking at a situation where it's like, okay, so when I'm at 900,000, should it, should it be allowed to stake, right? Cause then, then, then it could start helping like everyone it,
  136.  
  137. 00:38:14 you know what I mean? Like it would actually help earn it and the, and the protocol itself would contribute to the actual, would contribute to the actual [inaudible] actual,
  138.  
  139. 00:38:22 uh, I don't know, initiative itself. I don't know if that makes any sense. Similar to a trust, like a, a block of money that isn't moved and then just continues to grow and then whatever's whatever collects that be spent. But
  140.  
  141. 00:38:35 the actual original fund doesn't get someone that's like a trust.
  142.  
  143. 00:38:40 Absolutely. Yes. But just a short term trust, like, yeah. And that's what blockchain is built to do. To put all of the, the banking mechanisms into code can do some pretty cool stuff with it if you don't have to get banks to sign on.
  144.  
  145. 00:38:53 I want to ask, like if there's money in the trust in the, in this, uh, treasury, does the projects or things that are asking for money, do they have to uh, related to or specific Gridcoin development?
  146.  
  147. 00:39:06 The way I see it, I don't think so because what you'd be doing is you, no matter what the person would end up building in the grid coin ecosystem because they're getting funded with grid coin. So it would create utility for the coin in terms of, uh, buying and selling the coin. Uh, so maybe they want to start like a pet grooming business, but they wanted to jumpstart it with our, with a currency that is generated based on, uh, contributions to science. Uh, maybe they want to fund some research, uh, some scientific research. So they want to clearly use the scientific coin. Uh, so I think it could be anything I, it just depends on what network the person wants to look at. And this goes back to a discussion from a couple episodes ago where we're like, let's build a network that people want to come and use.
  148.  
  149. 00:39:50 Yeah. And I think another idea would be to do it as like a loan. The projects, if it's a profitable project, then they take out the loan from the treasury, that understanding that the [inaudible] or some sort of
  150.  
  151. 00:40:02 absolutely. So if it's a pet grooming business, then they make profit at the end of it and they then feed that money back to either the people that contributed or if it's the foundation, they end up feeding it back to the foundation. And all of a sudden if it's the foundation, you now have more funding for development. So this would let us separate the foundation from other initiatives so that the foundation could be used to primarily funded, uh, protocol development. While we can use this other mechanism to fund other things like building the ecosystem, incubating businesses, uh, and at the same time you could use this funding initiative to fund development. Let's say a developer comes on board and it's like, I want to build this thing, but it's going to take me a lot of time. I want to get paid for it. Here's how much a grid coin I'm happy asking for to build this thing out as if it reaches a certain point, I'll build it.
  152.  
  153. 00:40:51 If I succeed in it gets implemented, then I get to keep the funds. If it does not get implemented then the funds go back and yeah, basically that. And then we can, I don't know if I like this, but just spit balling off of that, you know you can vote, you end up voting on protocol development based on which protocol development gets funded over the long-term. But at the same time we have a voting mechanism based on stake in a network for protocol development, which is also pretty, pretty awesome. So I don't know which would be better. And without having that both through fully.
  154.  
  155. 00:41:22 How about does everything has to be voted or would there be some part of fun where like quickly action control my somebody that we all trust could spent my spot,
  156.  
  157. 00:41:33 the smaller amount, kind of like a cash box. So I think that goes into more verify the verified side staking address where that I'm trying to bid, which is basically this entity has said, we are who we are and this is what we do. And you all, you're putting trust in us as that entity. And then that entity, whenever they're given funds, it gets to do whatever they want with it. So with the grid coin dot world, uh, side staking address any fund that gets any GRC, they get sent there beyond the original, uh, trust essentially. Um, there is no poll on how that fund, how that GRC is spent. So the, it says it right in the proposal, like any fund B, any GRC beyond the initiating 100,000 GRC will be spent based on the decisions of the Management Board. And that's that. And you know, if, if that entity loses the trust of people, then people will stop sending their, uh, GRC to that address and they'll stop getting funded and they'll disappear.
  158.  
  159. 00:42:36 So I think that it can operate in both ways, but I think having those entities, those entities, it should be a process for those entities to be formed similar to how nonprofits are formed or LLCs are from stuff like that. So there are barriers of entry. Some random person can't come in and just build one of these and ask for a lot of money. They probably won't be different money anyway because no one knows who they are or what they're trying to do, but you know, they can, there are people they can take advantage of and those people would send them money. So by putting in a process that makes it difficult to make one of these entities, first of all, limits the number of entities that can exist in the first place. And then it limits the ability to scam that system. So yeah, I think both can exist, but in order to build one of those entities, that has to be a process.
  160.  
  161. 00:43:21 Hownix? As if that control has been allotted through some previous vote than some discretionary spending could happen, it probably shouldn't happen ad hoc. The general bounce should be as somehow spelled out beforehand. Absolutely. I think that's basically what I just said. But building a process that, that says what these entities are going to use. They're funded for a, this is how, you know, we have betrayed your trust sort of things, but just having like a marketing initiative, uh, pop up just a, an uh, a one time thing pop up. I don't think it needs, um, maybe it does, but after that my head, I guess I don't think it needs that, that process to go through or maybe it's up to a certain amount of funds. Like if you ask for more than a hundred thousand years, see you have to go through a process to make sure you're legit.
  162.  
  163. 00:44:07 Uh, but below that then it's, it's higher risk. But lower GRC at risk, he has transparency as a relevant aspect. Absolutely. At the same time though, especially considering the space we're in, the transparency can come at several different levels. Transparency can come through reputation. Uh, so you could be an anonymous but reputable contributor. And I think that could be transparent enough. And that also ties into the ..., The concept of reputation tokens and being able to put reputation on the blockchain where you know, one day, way down the road you can say, look, you can only make this if your reputation score is higher than some number, right? And the way you get reputation is through contributions, measurable contributions, but that that's difficult to do. But again, that is, that's exactly what the current banking system does, right? Except they do it in a very centralized way.
  164.  
  165. 00:44:57 That's what a credit score is. It says like, the bank is only going to give you a loan if you can prove your reputable person and they use a credit score to do that. And then they also denied loans to people based on where they're born or stuff like that. So we're trying to get that bad stuff out of there. First of all, the ability to deny someone access to banking. And the second the, the requirement to trust the centralized entity that manages a centralized ledger. Uh, we want to get rid of that. So the way you do that is put it into a protocol. So I think that's really what the discussion is, is revolving around, which is basically do everything that a bank does, but in a protocol, in a trustless way, take the tools that are bank uses that I trust, a credit scores, stuff like that and put it into a protocol.
  166.  
  167. 00:45:44 Uh, and on top of that build a way to raise funds that is different from the way that banks raise funds, which is from a fees or from block rewards or from some mechanisms we haven't thought of yet. Hownix adds as I meant something more like a trend like transparency reporting when a person has agreed to use funds in a particular manner than openly reporting those transactions, not just on the blockchain is an important part of maintaining the trust. And the trustee absolutely agree with that. And so the way that other people in other communities get funded for this stuff is they say exactly that I need like $5,000 to do x, y, and Z. I will put out reports every month saying where that money went, uh, in that if any point, like I don't do that, I lose access to my funds by the contract.
  168.  
  169. 00:46:32 Uh, so it's not, someone took the funds away from me. It's, I broke my own contract so I don't have access to those funds anymore. Um, but I think some of this stuff is pretty difficult to measure, but I might not be, I don't know. It can also be gamed, I think. But the way that other communities are developing this stuff makes me feel that we're going to solve that problem in the coming years. In terms of a trust and funding, which, which coin has the best treasures? I could not tell you what's the best one. I don't think there are many functioning ones. I think dashes system is pretty right. Uh, that's really the one I know the most about. Uh, I know cardano, when there's comes out, it probably gonna be pretty decent. They, I mean, they're taking their time, developing whatever they're developing, but they put a lot of thought into this stuff.
  170.  
  171. 00:47:20 They've been talking about developing treasury systems since before Cardano was a thing. Uh, yeah, I'm interested to see how or I'm interested to see how, I mean the Dow was interesting, uh, but that was basically just based on donations, right? Uh, I think some stuff that coins are doing that isn't directly connected to treasury, like raising funds, like playing around with uh, different types of blocks throughout a day. Uh, so pink coin recently developed this thing where they're staking algorithm changes for a certain amount of time during the day and they use it to incentivize stakers and particularly large stakers to do specific things so that smaller stakers have a chance to stake. You can do that sort of block manipulation to raise funds. So maybe every superblock raises funds for the treasury. Maybe we have a different type of block every so often that raises funds to the treasury. I think that's some interesting stuff that's getting explored for different reasons that, and those reasons can just be translated into for raising funds. Michael Jensen, he's trying to say something or did you accidentally on mute?
  172.  
  173. 00:48:26 Well, I'm a little tired now. It's, it's like three 30 in the morning in Sweden. Um, but you, you guys want one, some comments from a Newbie? Um, uh, I think maybe I've been in the community community for about two months now. So I guess the, the community itself are, uh, I would be the kind of person that, that the marketing department would, would target. Okay. And I could [inaudible] so basically this, this, the short story is I ended up in, in, uh, this grid coin community, um, based on, uh, I saw some kind of win win situation. I really, I really think there is a great, uh, basic foundation here. So, so I, I kind kinda tried to, to figure out, okay, how can I, how can I be the best possible member in this community? Um, and it was not easy because, you know, information about grid coin is all over the place.
  174.  
  175. 00:49:37 Uh, I finally found the fireside and that's what keeps me awake. Um, besides, uh, La Galaxy playing soccer. Um, so, um, if I had to choose between Wednesday and Thursday, I would, I would try to synchronize it. So when, whenever La Galaxy place, could we synchronize that with the Fireside in some way? No, I'm kidding. I'm just kidding. Now listen to me maybe to maybe the kind of cultural issue. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm from the corporate world, the real world. Um, I see this decentralization, um, all over the place looking at the white pages. I, I've tried everything to, to, to really understand everything and on the, but basically basically for me it's about trust. Okay. So what I did is, okay, I understood that in order to secure the blockchain, I need to, to, uh, to have some, some GRC in my wallet. So I put a couple of millions there.
  176.  
  177. 00:50:46 Um, it's topped, it's on top of my portfolios along with the Russian stocks and so on. So it's, it's not a big deal for me. Uh, I've found a couple of computers in the basement and I, and I, I have a mag of 221 now. Um, I felt that Delta did a good job, so I, I gave him like 10,000 GRC. So, um, but w w when it comes to when it comes to, um, I mean I have no problem. I, I could, I could donate them my 1.3 million GRCs uh, but it comes down to trust because when I entered, when I entered the community, um, what I'm looking for is, is trustworthy people. Okay. So I've been here for two months. Okay. I have found James Owens, I guess you guys, you've been, uh, you've been here for years and you know each other and so on.
  178.  
  179. 00:51:47 But I'm a Newbie. Okay. Um, I've just arrived. Okay. So I know that if I have any technical issues, I have some maybe some, uh, ideas about how to just, uh, distribute, uh, um, uh, GRCs to the foundation. So I talked to him about that. So I guess if James Owens would leave, I would leave. Okay. If I had any problem with my hardware, I would reach out to melk. Okay. You understand what I, when I say the problem is that, um, to me the foundation, I do not, uh, I is, I guess my question is what, what, what, what's the reason that the foundation is not a public fund foundation so that I can see who runs the business. Okay, I can see now that's, that's that guy CD. It's uh, uh, I can do a background check because eventually in the end, if we want to get investors into this, you would need that. I personally think that, I mean we have a white list now. Wood, wood, wood, the wood, our own community meet the criteria to be on that list. May I think you're speaking kind of the best truth. So the foundation is, it's gone through some phases of development where we've gotten it, Hands, that the community, internal community trusts. And the fear right now is, you know, when you
  180.  
  181. 00:53:26 hold that type of money, you don't want to just throw your name out without having some sort of, uh, protection behind you. So the thinking is it should probably be incorporated in some form or another. And once that happens, uh, then the people behind that are verified entities. This is also why I'm sort of starting to push for verified side staking addresses where the people asking for money have to verify their existence and verify their trustability. Uh,
  182.  
  183. 00:53:54 but what does that have to do with the d? This is the centralization bit of it is it, uh, that you can hide behind, uh, and, and not, not let people know who you are.
  184.  
  185. 00:54:09 I think it ties to reputation. Like I can trust someone without knowing who they are personally based on what they know. They have put in a lot of work. They've invested time in it.
  186.  
  187. 00:54:20 Yeah. But I think you decrease the number of people wanting to join the community because I don't, I don't know who you guys, where do I do where, where do I find this information?
  188.  
  189. 00:54:33 Yeah, absolutely. And that's why I,
  190.  
  191. 00:54:36 I agree with you when I say you're, you understand me? Uh, I'm, I'm just, I'm just, and maybe it's a cultural thing. I, I'm, uh, I just, I don't want to waste your time and please stop me. But, uh, if, if, if, uh, if you think that are spending your time, but, okay, because for me as an example, I'm a statutory licensed accountant, financial advisor in Sweden. Okay. Uh, I, I have like 25, 20 years, 25 years of being an, I'm CFO at different levels. Um, I've been board member eup European, the branch. He was, us, based company. Um, uh, and, and, and that is what that is. So, so, um, people know who I am. I'm trustworthy. Okay. So, um, uh, you, you, you can't just, I'm from Sweden. Uh, you can't just go outside. I'm saying I'm a, I'm an, I'm an an.
  192.  
  193. 00:55:40 Financial, uh, advisor. Okay. You need to be licensed. And that means that I need to provide all the information about myself and my background. So I have like 150 clients. I do their accounting. Um, and I can tell you a fun, fun story if you want. Uh, I went out, it was one of my clients. He's in the real estate business and he had like 10,000 euros, and he said, do what you want with it. Um, and I said, well, I can do that. I didn't put it into grid coin for, for, for, for several reasons. Uh, because in order to cash out, I would need, uh, to go through three, um, exchanges I would need to with me two wallets. Okay. So, eh, but that's another thing. Um, uh, but then I said, that's very, I tried to introduce it into, uh, into BOINC and I, and I, and I told them, you just need to, to install this program on your computer here. Uh, and then we'll, we'll look for ET. And he just looked at me, uh, don't touch my computer. Uh, you can have my 10,000 euros, but don't touch my computer. So I guess I'm a bad marketing guy, but, um, and maybe, uh, he didn't want me to, to, to, to, to look into his computer. Maybe there was a lot of Bulgarian cam girls today. I don't know.
  194.  
  195. 00:57:18 But the reason is, I mean, uh, I mean, I know, I, I understand, I understand what you're saying. Things needs to be organized. OK. Um, we, we need to have, uh, this at least where I come from. Okay. You have the, um, thing being de-centralized will not and can never be the final solution. Okay. Uh, centralization and I, uh, would need to be organized. Okay. And, and after it has been organized, you need to find some kind of ideology to build it on and on top of that, and now we are talking, you need to apply some rules that, that would, that would, uh, that would regulate, regulate things like, um, equality, um, solidarity and so on. You understand? Absolutely. I just don't, and I know actually I, I did reach out to, to, to James because I had a question. Uh, uh, because, um, uh, instead of just posting something I would, I asked him, is this possible?
  196.  
  197. 00:58:28 Um, I, I would, I would, uh, I would, uh, I asked him this, okay, I'll keep my 1.3 million, uh, to just secure the blockchain, but I'm willing to give all of my, my research to the foundation. Okay. That could be a way. Yeah. And he and that, and actually he, he said, he said, well no problem. I can set up that can set that up. I don't think it's the, the, the best way to do it, but um, in order to do that I need to trust the foundation, the people that, that are behind this. Because I, yeah, I think you understand me. Absolutely. I understand you , and Goblin you have a word here after me here real quick. But yeah, the journey we've been on for the past couple of years is exactly what you're talking about, which is bringing Gridcoin out of the shadows and getting people like Jim, I agree
  198.  
  199. 00:59:22 with you. He is major reason. Uh, I am still here in the community because he is a very verified person who is doing great work. Um, so the journey is continuing. The organization, uh, journey ended. The, the thing we're trying to get to is the way to fund stuff without having to ask you to do it. While it is very nice if you grow it to do what you're doing and given all your research awards to the foundation. I absolutely see why there's hesitation there. And the, the goal, Jim has talked about this before, a lot of people in the community have talked about it before, which is turning and this is what happened to bitcoin too, which is creating nonprofits may feel actual entities that people can then donate to, uh, to get stuff funded. Uh, and I think that stuff is around the corner, but the journey has been a long, long one and, uh, many bumps along the road. But we are, we're definitely getting there, uh, because of what you said and I agree with it and a lot of people in the community who have business experience understand exactly what you're talking about. Uh, but it is, uh, we're in a very specific environment. So,
  200.  
  201. 01:00:33 yeah, and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm really saying that and then that the reason why I was still here, I, I see, I see the, the Gridcoin point, uh, community, um, on top of, of, uh, of the [inaudible] project as a lovely island. Okay. Um, you, it's, it's, it's a really good thing. It's just that, that, um, there are so many that man looking from it from a corporate point of view, the problem that we have at the moment is that we have different departments, um, that are at different levels. Okay. They're not synchronized. So we have, we have a release that would normally trigger the marketing department. You would have different financial department. We would do a financial evaluation about is it worth it? Uh, and so on and so on. So it seems like the, the R&D department is way ahead of everyone.
  202.  
  203. 01:01:35 So the problem there is, and this is a problem I've dealt with, which is sinking the departments and yeah, it's more difficult than it seems because of this specific environment we're in, which is the cryptocurrency and blockchain environment. So there, there's a lot of pushback to it, but we're getting to that point where the communication between developers and marketers is improving and vastly so we can get that sort of flow going. And from that flow, you find people who are capable of building this stuff. And then from there you end up being able to build stuff. So those are great. Great, great. Yeah, there's a [inaudible] behind it. It's just a very difficult and long, long process. We're starting to get some out
  204.  
  205. 01:02:16 and I, I don't want to take more of your time, but I think that those are the kinds of questions that you're going to face, uh, in, during the expansion that you're talking about. Okay. People coming in knowing nothing.
  206.  
  207. 01:02:30 I just want to say a, you're not a bother at all. We actually love these kinds of questions. People interacting with us like this.
  208.  
  209. 01:02:37 Yeah. And I, and I,
  210.  
  211. 01:02:39 especially at 3:00 AM this is very coherent for 3:00 AM
  212.  
  213. 01:02:43 we're, we're in the same, we're in the same time zone by the way. I'm in Germany.
  214.  
  215. 01:02:46 Oh you are? Okay. But, but my problem is that that La Galaxy played yesterday night, so [inaudible] the second night. I'm up now. So what is that? I don't know what that is. Well it's, it's football. You guys, for some reason you call it soccer.
  216.  
  217. 01:03:04 Yeah. Cause that's what it is.
  218.  
  219. 01:03:05 Because they thought they thought different sport where it will carry an x shaped object that don't actually ever kick it with your passion, you know, the history of all that. But that's for a completely different time. [inaudible] it's because it's a game with a ball that's played on it. Yeah.
  220.  
  221. 01:03:26 It's only for Slaton Ebrahimian which, you know, he's from Sweden, so I follow him. So,
  222.  
  223. 01:03:32 so one thing I did want to add though is, is um, effectively kind of what you're describing from what I can hear. And by the way, so we're, we're from very similar, um, we're from very similar sectors that like real world stuff. So I'm just much, much earlier on in that career. But, um, but, but so I understand a lot of what you're saying and I hear very similar stuff, but if I can be what you're describing as similar to kind of what happens on, um, I don't know if you're on Reddit, but like they have like AMAs, right? Where it's like, ask me anything. And affectively, someone posts a picture and says, Hey, you know, this is me. And or, or, um, or they have other sub-Reddits where people will answer questions or need to be verified. And there's a small group of people like the moderators who will actually privately validate that that person is who they say they are and telling the rest of the people in the chat form guys, we validated them.
  224.  
  225. 01:04:23 They are good. Continue, right? Like you don't have to worry about them pretending they're not who they say they are and what that allows that person to talk still anonymously but validate their credentials with a, with effectively a small board of, of, of people who the community said you do the validation to tell us yes or no and then we'll just sit here and enjoy that, enjoy the rest of it. And I think that's the best middle ground to what you're describing and kind of what we exist in today because there's a lot of people who wouldn't want to give up that anonymity But, but to your point, there needs to be a larger, a larger group of people. You cut out a larger group of people, there needs to be a larger group of people who do it in order to bring more people in and make them more, feel more comfortable.
  226.  
  227. 01:05:07 Right. Like, I've been here for like two, three years and while I don't have a ton of time to dedicate to it, I love answering questions. I love, I love, you know, doing, uh, doing stuff and I, I've done things like, um, the mark like market grid where I trust, I trust some of these guys so much that I, I've like, they're like, oh, we, you know, you have the, you have the intermediate to make sure that nobody loses money. And I'll usually just, as long as I find a trade with someone who I know has been in the community long enough, I'll usually just trade directly with them. Like, I was like, I, I know, I know you're trustworthy. You know, I, I've, I've, I know your name around, I've seen you on the, on the, on the, you know, on the podcast for like six, seven months now.
  228.  
  229. 01:05:42 I was like, just, you know, here's like 5,000. We'll, we'll do our trade and whatever. Right? So there are trustworthy people here, but to your point, other than just being here for six to eight months and just seeing the name again and again and again, there's not too much other way that to validate that. So I think it would be an interesting thing to set up some validation method, but, but to Jringos pointed, it is difficult to, to hold the method that we exist in now that have attracted some people but also switch it to a method that would attract more. So yeah, that's how I say. Is that fair though?
  230.  
  231. 01:06:17 Yes, sure. And but, but, and then those also comes to, I'm in my position that, that I actually have access to a lot of potential investors. Okay. Uh, I even have personal codes to their accounts. I'm trustworthy. Okay. So I can do whatever I want with the certain amount of money, but I can advise them. Okay. So, but in order to advise them to invest in grid coin, I need a need. I need to know more about the foundation and the people that I got that are going to handle the money that, that, uh, we, we invest in this. OK. And I, I think you, you, you, you agree with me from my point of view at least.
  232.  
  233. 01:07:07 No, I, I agree. Um, yeah, but I do just want to make sure it's, it's, it's uh, properly conveyed that there are certain that this is like, some of this isn't the first time we've hearing about it, right? Like we've, we've, the podcast is how many episodes old and we bumped into similar, similar types of questions, not necessarily as front as a, as head on, but we, we bumped into similar things where it's like, you know, w what did we do? We are right. Like do we make people who are above a certain dollar value who are trying to vote in polls? Like you put it in their names and tell us their names, right? Cause they have so many power and do we, do, we make people announce their, their, um, their intentions or their, or their net worth. And so they can't hide behind a wallet address. Like what, what, what do we do? So, so those, those comments have come up in the past, but we haven't had too much of a, of a deep dive, at least in my opinion as to how to resolve it or, or an actual direction to take it. That's very true.
  234.  
  235. 01:08:01 Yeah. And the, the, the, the, there you had the, the, the, the cultural differences because me in Sweden, I need to be 100% transparent against the tax authorities in order to keep my license. So I have no problem. I have no problem with, with the telling who I am and so on because that's, that's what I have to do to keep my license. Um, um, but, um, I'm learning every day, but I, I really enjoy the, the, the, uh, uh, the, the community, you know, I'm, I'm just going to follow and I, I learn new things every day. And, uh, it's funny coming from the real world and the corporate, uh, the corporate world and go into the crypto currency, uh, thing. So, uh, I'll just, I'll just a hang on and, and, and learn more and listen to you guys and, um, keep up, keep up. Good work. I mean, I, I love the support that you give the Newbie to, to, uh, in the, in the discord, uh, channel and so on. So, so, uh, I have no problems. Um,
  236.  
  237. 01:09:16 yeah, but people have the option to expose their real, real names and so on with the regard. You know, what they do in the coin. This is an option. I think in decentralized system, this is the case, right? You can have, okay. Who are willing to do that. And there's some people who are not willing to do that. And of course you can apply more trust to the people who do expose themselves. But on the other hand, you know, some people might have a good reason to stay behind, you know, for sure. Sure, sure. So it's a, it's really an option, uh, compared versus, you know, maybe the government of Sweden where it's mandatory to, uh, to actually have all these [inaudible].
  238.  
  239. 01:09:55 Well, it's not, it's not mandatory, but in my position that I have, it's mandatory. Okay. So because, um, uh, I, I can't have any criminal history, I can't have any issues with the tax authorities because then I'll lose my license. So I have to do everything by the rules. So, uh, um, that's my position.
  240.  
  241. 01:10:19 Yeah. And what you're talking about here I think is the transition from the, the, the, those types of rules, that type of system to a new one. And that transition requires people, uh, who do verify their identity and do shatter. Then em do come out from behind the wall. And what we've been doing for the past couple of years is building a community that makes people want to do that, who are willing to do that. Because I agree with you, in order to get people from the legacy system into this new system, you have to have people like Andreas Antonopoulos, like Hal Finney, like people who, people who could have chosen to be anonymous but were non anonymous because they wanted to develop this thing. So they brought in other people and we've been building a community that is encouraging more people to do that and more people are starting to do it.
  242.  
  243. 01:11:08 I'm starting to develop with larger groups as related to grid coin. I've, you know, people like me are willing to go out me and Goblin and, and put our faces out there and names out there and talk about this stuff and put ourselves in front of like specifically BOINC projects. We have developers now coming in who were not afraid to, to really be who they are in the real world. So I think what you're saying is critical to getting that transition, getting people like yourself and the people you know and work with into the system. But at the same time, wait, who sits, who's staring at this? Just said, we have to also respect the people who want to remain anonymous in this type of system. Uh, but when they remain anonymous, they sacrificed a specific amount of trust and that is, uh, not helpful for the transition, but it's absolutely their, their choice. And they can do it for whatever the reason they want. And I think we'll continue to get more people who will verify their identity over time. And when we have people like that, then we can build stuff like nonprofits where that brings comfort to people from the legacy system. So I think we all absolutely agree with that,
  244.  
  245. 01:12:13 especially the, the, the, the organization part because you, you don't want guys like me doing the marketing
  246.  
  247. 01:12:21 trust me. But the next day I know what I did wrong because this I, I started talking about ET I mean if I, if I had said, let's cure cancer, let's find a cure for cancer. Maybe. Maybe he will. Yeah, let's do that. I mean, it's just, it's, it's, it's not my, um, as, as someone who's has pitched this to a certain patch, but it's someone who's had this exact same conversation with a bunch of coworkers and other and other, uh, like colleagues. I highly recommend coming up with like a one minute elevator pitch where you just, you clear up your thoughts and you're like, this is how we'll introduce it and just make it as streamlined as possible. Every time I describe it, I always get a lot of like, it sounds like you're describing SETI. And I'm like, well, setting it, yes, it's steady, but with more option, just do it that way. And they're like, ah, okay. And also this guy, it turns out, yeah, I mean I knew that before. He is a, um, uh, uh, he's
  248.  
  249. 01:13:27 a Christian Guy, so, so he, he doesn't believe in the science, so it was totally wrong. So, so I'll, I'll just stay out of the marketing. So, but, but um, yeah, I don't want to take more of your time. I just, I just think that those are the kind of questions that you're going to meet in the future. Um, and I hope I have helped you in some way. Uh, and I'll just, I'll just, uh, follow, uh, follow the development here and do whatever I can to, to, to help the community. Okay.
  250.  
  251. 01:14:02 Awesome. Thank you. And uh, Terrance hold on one second. I just want to echo, as I said in the chat here, he, he's basically saying, stick around and help us build stuff out. Your, your
  252.  
  253. 01:14:12 experience can definitely, uh, help when it comes to organizing this stuff. Yeah, for sure. I've been spent, I've been spending 20 years, uh, pissing people people off and actually being, being in as a CFO, uh, it's about coming into a board meeting and I can see three or four people, I can look in their eyes. Oh No, what's his, what's his go to the scene, tell us now. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's about, it's about being brutally honest. OK. You have an opinion, opinion and you tell it, okay, I've had two guys leaving the room. They never came back. Okay. But, but, but I, at least I did what I could and I do mistakes and I learn from it. Um, but that's my way of, of, of, um, of running my business and, and so on. Another, I think the community needs, uh, that kind of persons also that, that are brutally honest, that, that, that just, these are the facts. Realize it. Okay. Um, so maybe I can be a part of that. Um, um, in, um, still in a humble way. Um, I have grown, um, learned, learned a lot since my early years. So, but um, for now I'll, I'll just, I'll, I'll just, uh, I'll just, um, uh, follow the, the evolution of, of, of the project and, and uh, uh, I'll be here on the fire sides.
  254.  
  255. 01:15:51 Yeah. I think you definitely, you know, their main contribution now could be asking questions about concerns you have. That's really what I'm trying. Yeah. Honestly, what I'm trying to do yet, and I like to respond to that as well. Like the thing is, uh, you also need to look at other projects as well. Like, you know, you brought up the example of ET and you know, how, how does other coins compare to that? Like look a Bitcoin, right? It doesn't even have signs, uh, at the back supporting thing. It, it's just about mining, running things on computers. How do you sell that? That's even a harder sell than saying, you know, we're using a radio dish, listening to radio signals, real radio signals, and in doing real processing, it's kind of a irrelevant. Of course, the whole home market, the crypto market is still new.
  256.  
  257. 01:16:46 So you have kind of like a Moonshot [inaudible] war, right? The idea is kind of out there, it's way out there, out of the box, right? So you have to have people who kind of have at least a little bit of a belief in that, you know, this whole decentralization and this whole incentivize, uh, ecosystem of work, right? You have to have that small at least to get in there. And then once you'd want, you can compare different projects. Some of them are really way out there, right? Like, you know, Gridcoin, actually one of the ones that is, that is more practical and that is actually working. And that is, you know, have a really good community. So these are the kind of selling points that you need to tell the investors.
  258.  
  259. 01:17:29 Yeah. And, and, and, and trust me, it will be the next step to me. I mean, I, I think I have re I, I understand most of it what I need to, and it's hard for me. I mean, I come from the corporate corporate word now in, in some way. I need to, uh, do a, uh, I need to see things upside down to understand it. Okay. So I will try to do it, uh, um, um, [inaudible] and do and do my best. But, but you need to know you've been here for a while. It's not an easy task. OK. It's, uh, it's, it's a, I mean, being an accountant doesn't mean that you're, you're a genius in, in maps. Uh, um, but it's interesting and I'm, I'm, um, I'm looking into it so that, that, that will definitely be my next, next step to look at other currencies. I mean, we have like three, is it 3000 tokens out there and we are ranked as 632 or something. So there must be someone out there that have the solution to, to, uh, to what we are trying to solve. So,
  260.  
  261. 01:18:40 yeah, I think a big point here and Sorta to tie this back in and close up the recording and we can continue this conversation afterwards for sure. But yeah, yeah. A main point here is that you shouldn't have to be the person that's going out and doing the marketing if that's not your strong suit. You don't have a human people who are here to do marketing. We should have people constantly running marketing and initiatives. And to tie this back into how do we fund this stuff like the marketing in cheap is it's difficult to do. It's not a very tangible product. Um, and we have to find ways to fund it. And some of the ideas that came up in the earlier part of the show, which was like having people put forward initiatives and then once they're asking for funding, once their funding, uh, threshold is met, then that marketing initiative is funding.
  262.  
  263. 01:19:27 I think that's ways to, to develop this stuff. So when you go out to talk to someone, you can say, this grid coin thing is really cool. I can't really explain it really well, but here's the person you can go into who in it. Here's the resource you can go to. Here's the website, grid coin dot world that's not overloaded with text, that's really easy to go through and we need to find ways to fund the development of those resources that you can have just in your back pocket to give to someone who might be interested in this stuff.
  264.  
  265. 01:19:56 I understand, I understand.
  266.  
  267. 01:19:58 Yeah. And I think that's, that's where we're getting to at this point.
  268.  
  269. 01:20:01 Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for you for your time. Thank you.
  270.  
  271. 01:20:05 Definitely. I now let's continue to talk after the recording. I just don't want to have to edit another two hour episode because audacity hates that. I just want to say a no, thank you for your reservation. Yes, definitely. Your questions whenever. Uh, yeah. So, so that, that was great. This is what we need to hear and this is why we need brutal honesty in this stuff. And in that vein, I will be brutally honest. We need a treasury system. If you don't have a treasury system. I don't see how we can continue to grow. So we need to find a way to fund initiatives as they come forward. We need to continue to bring up reputable people in the community and develop a process to get them funds and uh, and do all the stuff that we've been talking about. So, uh, and that, no.
  272.  
  273. 01:20:50 Are there any other thoughts about anything that, uh, Michael Jansen down here said or anything that we talked about in the beginning about how to raise these funds? Uh, it seems like we all, at least here, I agree that there has to be some sort of protocol funding of these initiatives. We can't just simply rely on donations forever. Uh, and, and then the main questions are how do we determine where that money goes after we start raising it. Uh, so beyond that, are there any other final thoughts to close this out? Alright, then I will take this opportunity and just to say join the marketing channel and slack. There are a bunch, we put together a document a couple of weeks ago about some initiatives we want to get going shortly. Uh, it is also at the beginning of school season. So hopefully it will be able to get, uh, an initiative out with universities.
  274.  
  275. 01:21:40 Where are you going to try and find where he physically lives based off that car horn? I'm not sure if it was in his background or what it might. Uh, we'll just close it down there. There was, this has been a really good discussion and thank you Michael for the questions. That was very energizing. It's good to hear, uh, new voices and new opinions and it, uh, uh, a stern voice is very, very useful in this sort of development. So I definitely appreciate it. Stick around, give, uh, help us organize stuff with your experience when you can, where you see fit. Uh, other than that, we will not be back next week. We will be back the week after that
  276.  
  277. 01:22:23 where we'll have a project brief from Delta talking about world community grid and we will have a talk about a topic to discuss by then. So everyone have a fun week next week and we will see Ya. What's the date on August 29th you're on the grid coin discord server.
  278.  
  279. 01:22:39 Thanks [Loud Music].
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