[16:15] ★5gen: Today's CCAT will start the trend of incorporating the ZU Good Cores resource that Froasty runs in our builds. We will use the cores in this post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/zeroused.3629669/page-9#post-7822884.
[16:15] ★5gen: Using the sets directly is not a requirement. Alternatively, if you want to build around a different core, you must submit it through the Good Cores project (after the CCAT also works) for future CCATs.
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[16:19] Spooky Phobias was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
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[16:20] Aaronboyer was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
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[16:21] Union Caboche was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
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[16:22] barba atun was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
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[16:23] ★5gen: i'll make a poll to vote on
(The poll has ended – scroll down to see the results)
(A poll was started by 5gen.)
[16:26] superstrike66 was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
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(The poll timer was set to 3 minute(s) by 5gen.)
The poll timer was turned on: the poll will end in 3 minute(s).
[16:29] +Spooky Phobias: ight I'm here
[16:29] ★5gen: welcome
[16:29] +Spooky Phobias: Muk tang ftw
[16:29] +superstrike66: I think that a balance team could be nice
[16:29] +Spooky Phobias: also good job on making the decision on what cores we should build on 5gen
[16:30] ★5gen: i copied the ones from the good cores post
[16:30] Broken phobias: I'll be participating from my reg account fyi 5gen
[16:30] Broken phobias: I will not revote on the poll though
[16:30] ★5gen: sounds good man
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 Poll ended Which core should we build around

1. Muk+Probopass (1 vote)
 17%
2. Grumpig+Tangela (0 votes)
 0%
3. Muk+Tangela (2 votes)
 33%
4. Lickilicky+Pyukumuku (0 votes)
 0%
5. Chatot+Probopass (1 vote)
 17%
6. Probopass+Toucannon (1 vote)
 17%
7. Carbink+Rampardos (1 vote)
 17%
8. Purugly+Smeargle (0 votes)
 0%
[16:32] +superstrike66: tangelmuk sounds fun
[16:32] +barba atun: it is winning now lol
[16:32] ★5gen: So we're building around Muk+Tangela
[16:33] ★5gen: any thoughts on the sets?
[16:33] Broken phobias: I think we should give muk the standard set tbh
[16:33] +barba atun: that is?
[16:33] Broken phobias: but instead give it fire punch so we aren't restricted
[16:33] +Union Caboche: cursemuk
[16:33] +Union Caboche: !code
See code...
[16:33] +barba atun: oh
[16:33] Broken phobias: make it 8 speed
[16:34] Broken phobias: so it outspeeds other curse muk.
[16:34] +barba atun: lol
[16:34] ★5gen: neat tech
[16:34] +superstrike66: should we do b-sluge as ability?
[16:34] +superstrike66: *item
[16:34] ★5gen: not atm
[16:34] +Union Caboche: we could add probopass too
[16:34] +superstrike66: alt
[16:34] Broken phobias: this is lowkey super important when forced into that situation which is often
[16:34] +superstrike66: let's add alt
[16:34] ★5gen: because Pyukumuku can use block and soak
[16:34] +barba atun: i think muk should run at least two physical attacks
[16:34] ★5gen: black sludge would hurt muk
[16:34] +Union Caboche: black sludge/leftovers is the same when the ability is sticky hold
[16:35] Broken phobias: nah barba atun
[16:35] +Union Caboche: yeah too
[16:35] Broken phobias: run Fire punch over Poison Jab imo
[16:35] +barba atun: if you face other muk lol
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[16:35] +superstrike66: p-jab and f-punch
[16:36] +Union Caboche: we could build Something very bulky with probopass + alty
[16:36] +Union Caboche: i dont like too much too bulky teams actually but that's an option
[16:36] +superstrike66: bulky offense or balance
[16:36] +Spooky Phobias: !code
See code...
[16:36] ★5gen: if we go muk+tang"probo
[16:36] ★5gen: +*
[16:37] ★5gen: then we'd probably be free to go pjab, but i'm not sure about going probo
[16:37] +Spooky Phobias: I don't like Probo tbh
[16:37] +Aaronboyer: probo makes sense for steel-trapping
[16:37] +Spooky Phobias: it doesn't apply enough offensive pressure even with a Z-move
[16:37] +Spooky Phobias: Why trap steels when we can run Fire Punch and hit everything
[16:38] ★5gen: I also think that adding Probopass would make the team p slow
[16:39] +superstrike66: I think alolan golem is better at trapping steels
[16:39] +Union Caboche: there is actually a lot of fire resists
[16:39] +Spooky Phobias: thats a legitimate concern
[16:39] ★5gen: I'm open to adding Probo, but let's explore other mons
[16:39] +Union Caboche: and it makes the match up against golem harder that it is already
[16:39] +superstrike66: I think we need alt
[16:39] +Spooky Phobias: superstrike66 we can add alt later
[16:40] +Union Caboche: swanna looks less passive than altaria but i think yeah, we can talk about that later
[16:40] +Spooky Phobias: right now we are focused on a pokemon to compliment our core
[16:40] +superstrike66: there really run's that many steels in zu
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[16:40] +Spooky Phobias: there are a few notable ones
[16:41] +Union Caboche: yup but there are few ones though and bronzor is notably a pain to pass if you dont have any dedicaced answer
[16:41] ★5gen: team so far https://pokepast.es/4de21337c7da0278
[16:41] +Spooky Phobias: !dt golem
(PU)
GolemRock Head
SturdySand VeilHP
80Atk
120Def
130SpA
55SpD
65Spe
45BST
495
Dex#: 76 |  Gen: 1 |  Height: 1.4 m |  Weight: 300 kg (120 BP) |  Dex Colour: Brown |  Egg Group(s): Mineral |  Does Not Evolve
[16:41] +Spooky Phobias: !dt probopass
(PU)
ProbopassSturdy
Magnet PullSand ForceHP
60Atk
55Def
145SpA
75SpD
150Spe
40BST
525
Dex#: 476 |  Gen: 4 |  Height: 1.4 m |  Weight: 340 kg (120 BP) |  Dex Colour: Gray |  Egg Group(s): Mineral |  Does Not Evolve
[16:41] +barba atun: what about them
[16:42] +Spooky Phobias: Golem is faster and applies more offensive pressure
[16:42] +barba atun: as core?
[16:42] ★5gen: hm
[16:42] +Spooky Phobias: Furthermore, it has Sturdy for mid game if it needs it
[16:42] +superstrike66: probo has worse attacking stats as well
[16:42] +Spooky Phobias: however that leaves us lacking speed
[16:42] +superstrike66: I think 1 of the golems is a better bet
[16:43] +barba atun: it may work too
[16:43] ★5gen: altaria doesn't complement the core a whole lot and neither does swanna defensively. swanna helps check things offensively for the core
[16:44] +Spooky Phobias: Regular Golem is by far the best option if we look at the 2. If we want a faster rocker we can look towards the likes of either Dugtrio, Pinsir, Gabite, or monferno
[16:44] ★5gen: the issue with adding golem or probo rn is that they can serve a purpose, but we need to make up for their weaknesses and lack of speed
[16:45] +Spooky Phobias: I agree
[16:45] +superstrike66: we need a flying type
[16:45] +Spooky Phobias: otherwise our team can end up becoming to slow and thats an issue especially with the likes of Float and other threats
[16:45] +barba atun: mm
[16:45] ★5gen: why does the core need a flying-type?
[16:45] +superstrike66: not the core
[16:46] +superstrike66: just in general
[16:46] +Spooky Phobias: 5gen I say we go for Gabite
[16:46] +barba atun: could natu works?
[16:46] +superstrike66: golem/probo adds another ground weakness, and r slow
[16:46] +Spooky Phobias: or pinsir
[16:47] +Spooky Phobias: guys lets not focus on flying types right now
[16:47] ★5gen: sash pinsir can work
[16:47] +barba atun: as lead?
[16:47] +Spooky Phobias: I agree I prefer pinsir over gabite
[16:47] ★5gen: gabite helps against fire types and physical attackers
[16:47] ★5gen: especially komala
[16:48] +Spooky Phobias: oh I didn't consider komala tbh
[16:48] +superstrike66: I'm just throwing this out, but could vibrava work?
[16:48] +Spooky Phobias: I think Gabite might be a bit better then since Muk can just come in on Ice attacks
[16:48] ★5gen: not really, has a lot of downsides in this meta
[16:48] +barba atun: the problem is the ice type i believe
[16:48] +superstrike66: but I do like gabite as an option
[16:49] +barba atun: i prefer gabite over sash pinser tbh
(The poll has ended – scroll down to see the results)
(A poll was started by 5gen.)
[16:49] +Spooky Phobias: I do as well tbh Gabite seems to be the much better option
(The poll timer was set to 2 minute(s) by 5gen.)
The poll timer was turned on: the poll will end in 2 minute(s).
[16:50] +superstrike66: I think the golems would be better as attackers, instead of rockers
[16:50] +barba atun: we shoudl wait for the result of the pool lol
 Poll ended Which Pokemon should we add as the SR user?

1. Gabite (4 votes)
 100%
2. Golem-K (0 votes)
 0%
3. Golem-A (0 votes)
 0%
4. Probopass (0 votes)
 0%
5. Pinsir (0 votes)
 0%
There is no poll running in this room.
[16:51] +superstrike66: welp
[16:52] +superstrike66: that was decisive
+Xayahh left
[16:52] +superstrike66: Ig its gable then
[16:52] +Spooky Phobias: !code
See code...
[16:52] +barba atun: can we make it a tr team lol
[16:52] +Spooky Phobias: we could run offensive or defensive gabite
[16:53] +Spooky Phobias: I think Defensive is the better option
[16:53] +superstrike66: ye
[16:53] +barba atun: i prefer offensive lol
[16:53] +superstrike66: I agree
[16:53] +superstrike66: with defensive
[16:53] ★5gen: offensive sounds cool
[16:54] +barba atun: in my opinion the offensive set would give that lack of speed we have until now
[16:54] +Spooky Phobias: I mean if we want to pressure komala we want defensive
[16:54] +superstrike66: we can always add speed later
[16:55] ★5gen: 252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Return vs. 176 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gabite: 159-187 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
[16:55] +Spooky Phobias: that still hurts
[16:55] +barba atun: oh
[16:55] +barba atun: lol yeah
[16:55] ★5gen: 252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gabite: 238-282 (85.9 - 101.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
[16:55] +barba atun: is 82 mediocre for a lead?
[16:55] ★5gen: nah
[16:56] +Spooky Phobias: so deffensive or offensive
[16:56] +barba atun: i think the next poke we should look, must have an ice type resistance
[16:56] +Spooky Phobias: Defensive imo
[16:56] +barba atun: lets pool for it lol
[16:57] +Spooky Phobias: since this defensive Gabite set is a soft check for Komala
[16:57] ★5gen: 252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Return vs. 0 HP / 56 Def Eviolite Gabite: 220-259 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
[16:58] ★5gen: I think we can go offensive Gabite with that spread
[16:58] +Spooky Phobias: oh thats better
[16:58] ★5gen: since either way komala will 2hko defensive
[16:58] +Spooky Phobias: yea thats better imo
[16:59] +superstrike66: so we're going defensive?
[16:59] +Spooky Phobias: nah offensive
[16:59] ★5gen: figuring out a spread
[16:59] +Spooky Phobias: !code
See code...
[16:59] ★5gen: is it worth it going max speed?
[16:59] +Spooky Phobias: um it outspeeds like
[17:00] +Spooky Phobias: idk
[17:00] +Spooky Phobias: probably not
[17:00] ★5gen: !code
See code...
[17:00] ★5gen: jolly 200 hits 275 Speed
[17:00] +Spooky Phobias: yes go max speed we want to outspeed ferno
[17:01] +barba atun: for me thelast pasted set works fine
[17:02] +superstrike66: ye
[17:02] ★5gen: https://pokepast.es/7050a3f20ad81808
[17:02] +superstrike66: it looks good
[17:02] +Spooky Phobias: I think the next rational step is to add a remover
[17:03] ★5gen: yeah probs
[17:03] +superstrike66: Id say alt, but we already r really weak 2 ice
[17:03] ★5gen: also need something for floatzel
[17:03] +Spooky Phobias: I would instead say like Silvally water
[17:03] +Spooky Phobias: with T-bolty
[17:03] ★5gen: was thinking that too
[17:03] +Spooky Phobias: its a Balance team staple rn with swanna and float arounbd
[17:04] +Spooky Phobias: we are really abomasnow weak rn though
[17:04] +superstrike66: I think watervally should be it
[17:04] ★5gen: we all agree on Silvally-water?
[17:04] +barba atun: defogger silvally water?
[17:04] +superstrike66: ye
[17:04] +barba atun: sure
[17:05] +Spooky Phobias: yea its the defogger that makes the most sense based on our team
[17:05] ★5gen: we going defog+u-turn
[17:05] +Spooky Phobias: yea
[17:05] ★5gen: makes sense
[17:05] +barba atun: what is the set tho
[17:05] +Spooky Phobias: !code
See code...
[17:05] ★5gen: !code
See code...
[17:06] ★5gen: that speed is for frostom though
[17:06] +Spooky Phobias: ooh
[17:06] +Spooky Phobias: you are right
[17:06] +barba atun: why not parting shot ?
[17:06] +superstrike66: metang
[17:06] +Spooky Phobias: Pshot can be blocked by sound proof mons
[17:06] +Spooky Phobias: plus its more beneficiall to get the chip on some pokemon
[17:07] +barba atun: well i guess it works that way
[17:07] +Spooky Phobias: 5gen what speed would you suggest?
[17:07] ★5gen: thinking
[17:08] ★5gen: can creep mime, but that takes away bulk and silv-water can't chunk it
[17:08] ★5gen: we can creep jolly pinsir
[17:08] +Spooky Phobias: yea that doesn't make sense especially if we want to take a Z-cane
[17:08] ★5gen: 176+ should be enough for now, creeps Pinsir
[17:09] +Spooky Phobias: 208 HP, 124 Spa, 176 speed,
[17:09] +Spooky Phobias: Are we going timid
[17:10] ★5gen: yeah
[17:10] ★5gen: what's the 124 for?
[17:10] +Spooky Phobias: Idk its from the orignal set that I posted
[17:10] +Spooky Phobias: just gives it a decent amount of SpA without letting it fall short I suppose
+Union Caboche left
[17:12] ★5gen: what do you guys think? Is going 252 HP and 80 SpA or Defense better?
[17:12] +Spooky Phobias: I like that better
[17:12] ★5gen: can't seem to find what 124 SpA does in this meta
[17:12] +Spooky Phobias: just so we can maintain its longevity
[17:13] ★5gen: https://pokepast.es/f2a1fc150d0c6658
[17:13] ★5gen: we need some offensive presence now
[17:14] +Spooky Phobias: ye our last 2 slots will be a breaker and then a scarfer
[17:14] ★5gen: specifically checks to Abomasnow, Floatzel, Swanna, etc
[17:14] +superstrike66: Monferno with t-punch?
[17:14] ★5gen: not really that reliable and it is slower than those water-types
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[17:15] +Spooky Phobias: Scarf Electivire checks all of those
[17:15] ★5gen: yeah
[17:15] ★5gen: we as
[17:15] ★5gen: also*
[17:15] ★5gen: need a normal resist
[17:16] +Spooky Phobias: we could run Band Dusknoir
[17:17] ★5gen: unsure how good that would be
[17:18] ★5gen: lacks strong stab and doesn't necessarily beat komala or bouff
[17:18] +Diagnostic: 5gen, I'm here to save the day.
[17:18] +Diagnostic: 124 SpA Silvally-Water Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 324-384 (100.9 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
[17:18] ★5gen: we aren't flamethrower though lol
[17:18] ★5gen: was calcing 124 SpA for tbolt and surf
[17:19] ★5gen: appreciate the calc though
[17:19] +Spooky Phobias: we could run a gourgeist form
[17:19] +Spooky Phobias: or Pawniard
[17:19] +Spooky Phobias: or offensive Mawhile
[17:20] +superstrike66: wait
[17:20] +Spooky Phobias: we are very weak to EQ though
[17:20] +Spooky Phobias: but tang can patch that up
[17:21] +superstrike66: if we run 'vire, why don't we run thrower on silvally?
[17:21] +Diagnostic: You don't need any SpA to 2HKO Floatzel or relevant Surf Targets.
[17:21] ★5gen: if we go Gourgeist-XL
[17:21] +Diagnostic: Meaning invest fully into bulj.
[17:21] +Diagnostic: Bulk.
[17:21] ★5gen: we'd have to replace Tangela, which we kind of can't since it's part of the core
[17:21] +Spooky Phobias: yea I don't like that idea
[17:22] ★5gen: we can always go back to the golem idea
[17:22] +Diagnostic: Preferably enough to live a +1 AoP (Focus Punch) from Floatzel.
[17:22] +Diagnostic: After rocks.
[17:22] ★5gen: but that gets bopped by sd bouff, eq komala, and viggy
[17:22] +Spooky Phobias: are we adding Scarf Vire
[17:22] +Spooky Phobias: and focusing on a normal reisist
[17:23] ★5gen: yeah that sounds good
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[17:23] +superstrike66: Drifblim?
[17:24] ★5gen: https://pokepast.es/8ec9750d8819adfe
[17:24] +Spooky Phobias: okay hear me out what if we ran Cro Carbink
[17:24] Froasty was invited (and promoted to Room Voice) by 5gen.
+Froasty joined
[17:24] ★5gen: desperately need a normal check
[17:24] +Froasty: Where we at so far and on which core?
[17:24] +Spooky Phobias: actually scratch that
[17:25] ★5gen: muk+tangela
[17:25] ★5gen: https://pokepast.es/8ec9750d8819adfe
[17:25] +superstrike66: can we run fire punch on vire instead?
[17:25] ★5gen: over ice punch?
[17:25] +superstrike66: ye
[17:25] +Spooky Phobias: why
[17:25] +Froasty: EQ > Cross chop
[17:26] ★5gen: that's what i usually run
[17:26] +superstrike66: or flamethrower on silvally?
[17:26] ★5gen: but seeing as how we're weak to bouffalant, komala, and viggy
[17:26] ★5gen: thought cross chop would help
[17:27] ★5gen: i've been thinking about
[17:27] +Spooky Phobias: banded Sudowoodo
[17:27] ★5gen: !dt lycanroc-m
No Pokémon, item, move, ability or nature named 'lycanroc-m' was found. Showing the data of 'Lycanroc-Dusk' instead.
RU
Lycanroc-DuskTough ClawsHP
75Atk
117Def
65SpA
55SpD
65Spe
110BST
487
Dex#: 745 |  Gen: 7 |  Height: 0.8 m |  Weight: 25 kg (60 BP) |  Dex Colour: Brown |  Egg Group(s): Field |  Does Not Evolve
[17:27] +Spooky Phobias: that sounds heat af ngl
[17:27] ★5gen: rip
[17:27] ★5gen: !dt lycanroc-midnight
(PU)
Lycanroc-MidnightKeen Eye
Vital SpiritNo GuardHP
85Atk
115Def
75SpA
55SpD
75Spe
82BST
487
Dex#: 745 |  Gen: 7 |  Height: 1.1 m |  Weight: 25 kg (60 BP) |  Dex Colour: Red |  Egg Group(s): Field |  Does Not Evolve
[17:27] +Spooky Phobias: true
[17:27] +Spooky Phobias: but that defense though
[17:28] ★5gen: mhm
[17:28] ★5gen: was thinking band or something
[17:28] ★5gen: crustle may also work
[17:28] ★5gen: if we go with a slower threat
[17:29] ★5gen: we'd only really have evire for revenge killing
[17:29] +superstrike66: crustle would be a nice setup 'mon
[17:29] +Spooky Phobias: lycan is the best bet tbh
[17:30] ★5gen: what do you guys think as sixth?
[17:30] +superstrike66: Crustle Is nice
[17:30] +Froasty: Could use avalugg with roar if you really need to stop bouf/kom
[17:30] +Spooky Phobias: I really like Sudowoodo tbh but Lycan is our best bet
[17:30] +Froasty: Since avalugg outbulks anything they throw at it
[17:31] +Spooky Phobias: that is true
[17:31] +Froasty: It'll stop sub vigs from being set up on you, although you still need a way to cripple or kill taunt vigs
[17:31] +superstrike66: use Vigo
[17:31] +superstrike66: the thing's a beast
[17:32] +Spooky Phobias: 5gen lets put golem over gabite tbh
[17:32] +Spooky Phobias: and then just put something fast for our last slot
[17:32] ★5gen: I need to head out guys, sorry that i can't finish the team
[17:32] +Spooky Phobias: a fast breaker
[17:32] +Spooky Phobias: ight peace