@juve How dare you post that poem here?
1. The original text talks about communists, not socialists.
2. "It is about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group."
I cannot believe that people use an anti-Nazi poem to support Nazi's. That's beyond dumb.
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:06 PM
It's not an anti-Nazi poem.  It's an poem about speaking up for all oppressed groups, not just the ones you belong to.
Kangodo - Today at 9:06 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
First they came ...
"First they came ..." is a poem written by German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984). It is about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after gr...

PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:07 PM
Precisely
Kangodo - Today at 9:07 PM
"First they came ..." is a poem written by German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984). It is about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group.
> It is about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis' rise to power
The message of the entire poem is that you have to stop Nazi's NOW, not allow them to grow
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:08 PM
And what happens when it's a different group oppressing people?  Do they get a free pass?
Or is it okay to oppress people as long as you don't call yourself a nazi
Kangodo - Today at 9:09 PM
"We defend Nazis because all have a right to speak. There's a poem you might remember"
That was the text.
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:10 PM
That's our point.  Somebody could start their oppression of groups by first taking rights away from so-called Nazis.
If you can take the freedom of speech from Nazi's, then why not everyone you disagree with?
Kangodo - Today at 9:11 PM
Lol
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:11 PM
Too hard for you to understand?
Kangodo - Today at 9:11 PM
The message of the poem is that Nazi's shouldn't have freedom of speech.
How hard is that to understand?
CreativeRealms - Today at 9:11 PM
No
That's not what it means at all.
It means you should speak out. Says nothing about shutting down speech.
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:13 PM
The message is that if you let rights be taken from any group, eventually that will find it's way to you.
Kangodo - Today at 9:13 PM
Whatever, I am not interested in your Nazi-apologism. Just don't use anti-Nazi poems as an argument.
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:13 PM
Okay, considering it's not an anti-Nazi poem, there shouldn't be any problem
Kangodo - Today at 9:14 PM
It is.
The author says so
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:14 PM
No, he doesn't
CreativeRealms - Today at 9:14 PM
Nobody is "apologizing" for Nazis either.
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:14 PM
It was, at the time, in reference to the Nazi's, but the intrinsic message of the poem can be applied anywhere.
Kangodo - Today at 9:15 PM
dont use the message to defend nazis tho
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:15 PM
If their rights are threatened, I will every time
CreativeRealms - Today at 9:15 PM
I'm not defending what the guy wrote because the way he worded it was terrible.
Kangodo - Today at 9:15 PM
lol
"nazi rights"
CreativeRealms - Today at 9:16 PM
I don't defend Nazis I just defend their right and everyone elses to speak.
Kangodo - Today at 9:16 PM
And please don't bring the slippery slope argument into this.
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:16 PM
Nazi's are people too, no matter how much you wish they weren't
This whole poem is about the slippery slope
Kangodo - Today at 9:16 PM
:face_palm:
The slippery slope is that if you allow Nazis their speech and rights, you end up with 80 million dead people.
CreativeRealms - Today at 9:17 PM
No
Kangodo - Today at 9:17 PM
Which is why they should be killed on sight.
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:17 PM
If that's the message you take away from this poem, then I think you'd fit in right at home in Nazi Germany
Just kill everybody you don't like
Shock - Today at 9:19 PM
who is gonna do all this killin
soyboy commies such as yourself
?
r o f l
Kangodo - Today at 9:19 PM
No, just Nazi's.
And that's the entire point of the poem.
If you allow Nazi's you end up with a place like Nazi germany
Shock - Today at 9:19 PM
the message of the poem, is that you should speak out against opression
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:19 PM
Who the hell is a Nazi, Kangodo.
CreativeRealms - Today at 9:20 PM
Kangodo would probably call me a Nazi tbh.
Shock - Today at 9:20 PM
you literally said that nazis should be killed on sight
so what are you
just a weak ass commie trying to feel tough
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:20 PM
You've created a premise where, as long as you can convince people that someone is a Nazi, it's totally justified to murder that person.
Shock - Today at 9:20 PM
you dont really care about human rights or peace, just trying to escape your inferiority complex
Kangodo - Today at 9:21 PM
Can you attack something I actually said instead of these straw men?
I didn't call you a Nazi.
Shock - Today at 9:21 PM
Kangodo - Днес в 21:17
Which is why they should be killed on sight.
CreativeRealms - Today at 9:21 PM
Never said you did.
Said you probably would.
Shock - Today at 9:21 PM
backpedaling already?
Kangodo - Today at 9:22 PM
Kangodo would probably call me a Nazi tbh.
:thonk:
Shock - Today at 9:22 PM
or your span of attention is not great perhaps

Kangodo - Today at 9:22 PM
I'm talking about Nazis
CreativeRealms - Today at 9:22 PM
"would probably"(edited)
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:22 PM
Then who, exactly, is a Nazi, Kangodo?
Kangodo - Today at 9:22 PM
That is still a personal attack.
The kind of people who march in the street with a Nazi-flag and chant "sieg heil"
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:22 PM
What qualifies a person to be Nazi?
Kangodo - Today at 9:22 PM
You could just wait for half a minute instead of repeating your question.
Especially when I am STILL waiting for the source on WSJ making shit up.
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:23 PM
So you only want to kill people that march in the streets and chant sieg-heil?  Nobody else?
And if you don't know that the WSJ is a rag then I honestly can't help you
CreativeRealms - Today at 9:24 PM
What about all the people on the left who think anyone who supports Trump is a Nazi? Do they also get the bullet even if you don't think they are Nazis?
Shock - Today at 9:25 PM
would you execute someone like richard spencer
Probably Tim - Blighty - Today at 9:25 PM
There's nothing more Naziesque than going around punching people you disagree with.
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:25 PM
Communists killed far more people then Nazi's, should we kill all people who march in the streets with USSR flags?
Shock - Today at 9:26 PM
he is a communist
Kangodo - Today at 9:26 PM
> not defending nazis
Shock - Today at 9:26 PM
and he doesnt see the hypocrisy of wanting to execute people cause he thinks they are violent
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:28 PM
We're defending the rights of Nazi's, Kangodo.  We're defending the rights of people from people like you, who wish to remove them for their own agenda.
Kangodo - Today at 9:28 PM
Well, you apparently don't live in Europe. So much is clear.
Shock - Today at 9:28 PM
I do
Kangodo - Today at 9:29 PM
Why don't I give you the number of my girlfriend?
You can tell her how the rights of Nazi's should be defended.
And she can tell you about how half her family got eradicated by Nazis.
Shock - Today at 9:29 PM
if shes hot, you can
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:29 PM
I already have that number, thanks
Shock - Today at 9:30 PM
savage
Kangodo - Today at 9:30 PM
#serious-politics-only
Shock - Today at 9:30 PM
why dont you come to my country and ask how many ppl stalinist government killed
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:30 PM
Half my family got executed by Communists, that doesn't mean I accept the idea that all communists should be murdered on sight.
Shock - Today at 9:30 PM
how do you justify, by your own logic that you deserve to live
if you support communism
CreativeRealms - Today at 9:31 PM
And I'm Jewish and say your definition of the poem is wrong.
Kangodo - Today at 9:31 PM
Because the comparison is ridiculous
Shock - Today at 9:31 PM
if you want to kill genocidal authoritarian ideologies
start with yourself
please
Kangodo - Today at 9:31 PM
Do you know why Stalin murdered those people?
Because he tried a bit of Nazism.
Shock - Today at 9:32 PM
because communism is a joke
Kangodo - Today at 9:32 PM
The guy literally looked at Nazi Germany and thought: "Hey, that's cool."
Shock - Today at 9:32 PM
and you support him
4N0NT1D43 - Today at 9:32 PM
you're not defending the rights of nazis, you'
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:32 PM
It's almost like communism is Nazi fascism, just with a veneer of giving people free food.
4N0NT1D43 - Today at 9:32 PM
re defending the rights of people
all or nothing
Shock - Today at 9:32 PM
>communism
>food
Kangodo - Today at 9:32 PM
It's almost like Stalinism has little to do with what communism is about.
Shock - Today at 9:33 PM
well you sound just like stalin
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:33 PM
Okay, then what about all the actual communists that murdered people?(edited)
Shock - Today at 9:33 PM
how come every communist government did this
4N0NT1D43 - Today at 9:33 PM
what about all the [insert group of people here] that [did bad thing]
Shock - Today at 9:33 PM
the stalin treatment
Kangodo - Today at 9:33 PM
Find me a nazi who denounces Hitler
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:33 PM
I'm sure you could, actually
Kangodo - Today at 9:33 PM
Sure you could.
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:33 PM
Lots of them don't like the way he did things
Shock - Today at 9:34 PM
99% of people you accuse of nazis do
what about people like richard spencer who just want a white state, and denounce violence
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:34 PM
I rarely hear communists denounce Stalin, too.
Kangodo - Today at 9:34 PM
Genocide is basically a main-principle of Nazism.
Shock - Today at 9:34 PM
and communism it seems
Kangodo - Today at 9:35 PM
There's nothing faster in this world than someone who claims he is not defending Nazism yelling "But what about Communism?" after hearing what Hitler did during WW2.
Shock - Today at 9:35 PM
if you were a regular liberal whining about hitler, it wouldnt be applicable
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:35 PM
Because your hypocrisy is pungent
ankaram ☠ 拍子 - Today at 9:35 PM
it is not about Hitler but the nazis as a criminal gang
Shock - Today at 9:35 PM
but you are a stalinist
so hypocrisy is evident
Kangodo - Today at 9:36 PM
Shock, last warning. Another personal attack and I'm calling in a mod.
Shock - Today at 9:36 PM
triggered
im not atacking you, you said yourself you are communist
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:36 PM
Personal attack, by putting a name to the very values you just espoused?
Shock - Today at 9:36 PM
and want to execute people
Kangodo - Today at 9:37 PM
Because I'm not a Stalinist.
The entire ideology is disgusting, the guy was borderline a fascist with his copying of Hitler's policies.
Shock - Today at 9:37 PM
so what about people who don't call themselves nazis
and you still want to execute them
because i find it hard pressed to differentiate ur views from stalins views
Some Shibe - Today at 9:38 PM
You are actually kind of like hitler Kangodo
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:38 PM
So as long as they don't call themselves Nazi's, you won't execute them Kangodo?
Some Shibe - Today at 9:38 PM
you want to execute a group of people because of their ideas
Kangodo - Today at 9:38 PM
@wallie Can you please inform people what happens when they make personal attacks?
Some Shibe - Today at 9:38 PM
and nazis are bad and all(edited)
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:38 PM
Like, only one of us is advocating for the violent murder of an entire group of people here, and its you, @Kangodo
Some Shibe - Today at 9:38 PM
but they should be put in jail not killed on sight
Shock - Today at 9:39 PM
being compared to hitler is too strong of a personal atack, his feelings are hut
CreativeRealms - Today at 9:39 PM
@Some Shibe you shouldn't be put in jail because of your beliefs. Only if you are violent or are a clear and imminent threat.(edited)
Some Shibe - Today at 9:39 PM
true

Shock - Today at 9:39 PM
thats why innocent until proven guilty exists
Kangodo - Today at 9:39 PM
@PanickedPaladin No, many people are.
A lot of people seem to be in favour of the death penalty.
Shock - Today at 9:40 PM
for heinous violent crimes, yes
not for ideas
4N0NT1D43 - Today at 9:40 PM
not for wrongthink no
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:40 PM
@Kangodo. And so you think calling yourself a Nazi should be instantly and irrevocably worthy of the death penalty?
Shock - Today at 9:40 PM
he already said he does
Kangodo - Today at 9:41 PM
I could post some images of the things that are part of Nazism, not sure if the admins would like it.
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:41 PM
You haven't answered my question
4N0NT1D43 - Today at 9:41 PM
you could also post some images of the things that are part of drug cartels
Kangodo - Today at 9:41 PM
Drug cartels are already banned
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:41 PM
I could post some things that are a part of communism(edited)
4N0NT1D43 - Today at 9:41 PM
doesn't mean all of them should be put to death
or all mexicans
or w/e
Kangodo - Today at 9:41 PM
You could, but you would be lying.
All Nazis != all mexicans
4N0NT1D43 - Today at 9:42 PM
that isn't even the point i was making
and how the fuck do you tell a nazi from a mexican anyways
a nazi is an idea not a phenotype
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:42 PM
Oh, so Pinochet did nothing wrong, Kang, gotcha.
Kangodo - Today at 9:43 PM
Pinochet killed innocent people because he disliked their ideas.
4N0NT1D43 - Today at 9:43 PM
nor nationality nor ethnicity nor designer jeans
Kangodo - Today at 9:43 PM
Glad you are supporting a mass murderer.
NEW MESSAGES
Shock - Today at 9:43 PM
actually pinochet only killed communists, and not any regular people like the other 2
so by kangodos definition, he is correct in doing so and justified
4N0NT1D43 - Today at 9:43 PM
you can't met punishment out on people based on the convictions that they hold, only their actions
PanickedPaladin - Today at 9:43 PM
You're literally advocating for the murder of people because you dislike their ideas @Kangodo
Kangodo - Today at 9:43 PM
But seeing as communism doesn't advocate genocide those people are innocent
Nazism does advocate for genocide, so nazi's are not innocent people.
It's not hard to understand.
4N0NT1D43 - Today at 9:44 PM
they're innocent until they commit genocide, dude.
Kangodo - Today at 9:44 PM
Unless you're a nazi-apologist ofcourse