dungeon crawl classics does this by design. Mages that fail spell rolls take temporary and permanent changes to their character as a result. Mages can also use themselves to increase the effectiveness of a spell roll.
Its an amazing system.
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[–]shiginoth [S] 2 points 9 days ago
that sounds like exactly what I want, I'll have to look it up!
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[–]Kai_Lidan 10 points 9 days ago
Mind you, they only get a corruption or disfunction on a roll of 1 on their spell checks. If that sounds like too little, remember that it means 5% of the time they try to cast a spell, they turn a friend into a chicken for 1d7 days (exploding) or gain a horn.
Spellburn is great, you take voluntary (temporary) damage to your physical scores and offer it to an arcane being to empower your spells. They sometimes come with sidequests attached (like "I can lend you my power without taking a little bite of your soul if you sacrifice a pair of human feet to me before tomorrow").
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[–]trevorbramble 1 point 9 days ago
Sounds like you're rolling mercurial with every casting? As I understand it the intent is to roll that when the spell is learned, after which that is simply the way it is cast--that's how the wizard/elf learned it.
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[–]Kai_Lidan 2 points 9 days ago
Mercurial is a different beast, it doesn't have much to do with either corruption or spellburn.
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[–]trevorbramble 1 point 7 days ago
Yeah, I read your post too fast and thought you had confused them. Sorry!
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[–]i_am_randy Nevada | DCC RPG 1 point 9 days ago
You can take voluntary corruption to increase your spell rolls. From the rule book:
Automatic corruption: Offering one’s own mortal shell for the consumption of supernatural powers can greatly aid a casting but is extremely painful. Any casting ritual where the caster offers to voluntarily accept corruption can add an extra +2 to +6 bonus to the spell check result, at the result of a mandatory corruption of minor (+2), major (+4), or greater (+6) variety
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[–]Kai_Lidan 2 points 9 days ago
I completely forgot about that rule. Yay for corruption!
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[–]lianodel 4 points 9 days ago
In addition to what /u/swarthy_io and /u/Kai_Lidan mentioned, Wizards and Elves can also invoke supernatural patrons. They're powerful allies, and provide possible access to unique spells, but they provide unique forms of corruption, as well as "patron taint," which can be absolutely nasty. It's unlikely, but if you roll a 1 on a d100, you get some severe side effects (and each time you use a patron, the odds expand by one, until you get patron taint and it resets the odds).
I'm running it now, but it was a great book just to read. I like reading rulebooks anyway, but even if that's not your bag, there are a bunch of awesome ideas in there to inspire other campaigns.
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[–]huron223 1 point 9 days ago
Yeah it is great. Even if you are not going to use their system, their "corruption" tables are very very good when it comes to the consequences of magic.
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[–]JaskoGomad 19 points 10 days ago
Plenty.
In Call of Cthulhu or Trail of Cthulhu, you're likely to permanently damage your psyche learning magic.
In Shadow of the Demon Lord you can go mad or be mutated into a monster.
In Urban Shadows you can advance the inexorable ticking clock that drives your character into darkness.
In Dresden Files you can sacrifice your mind or your body to the needs of a spell or cause incredible damage around you in the event of a failure.
These are a few off the top of my head.
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[–]shiginoth [S] 8 points 10 days ago
I've seen Shadow of the Demon Lord mentioned in multiple threads, I'll have to check it out. thanks!
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[–]south2012 6 points 9 days ago
I came here to say Shadow of the Demon Lord. I love the magic system. The corruption mechanic is quite fun and there are lots of dark magic effects in the game. SotDL is currently my favorite RPG, it is amazing and I highly recommend it.
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[–]DerAmazingDom 2 points 9 days ago
Honestly, it's a great system, I definitely recommend it. I'd even advise outright replacing D&D with it in any group.
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[–]OurModsAreFaggots 3 points 9 days ago
Have to throw in Lamentations of the Flame Princess, this business is right up their alley.
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[–]NBQuetzal 8 points 10 days ago
The 40k and WFRP games have magic that can have horrific consequences if it goes wrong. Or if it goes right.
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[–]shiginoth [S] 1 point 10 days ago
WFRP sounds enticing! Looks like there are multiple editions. do you have a recommendation on an edition?
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[–]NBQuetzal 3 points 10 days ago
2nd edition is the only one I have any experience with, so, that one.
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[–]Wyzack 4 points 9 days ago
2nd edition is the best version of WFRP but if you are just looking to ape the psyker power system for your own use you could really look at any of the 40k RPGs as well, as they all use virtually the same system.
Magic works by tapping into the unstable realm of the warp for power. This has inherit risks unless you swing way below your weight class. Psychic phenomenon range from eerie effects like candles snuffing out or objects and people getting buffeted about, to full out perils of the warp that can rend apart reality, summon horrific demons or make people go mad.
The best part is that you can "push" for extra psychic power, but if you do it greatly increases the risk of these consequences occurring.
It really does depend on the setting you are using for your own game, as the unstable nature of Warp powers and psykers in general is heavily tied to the system.
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[–]molten_dragon 7 points 10 days ago
Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th edition, despite its ridiculousness, actually does this quite well.
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[–]shiginoth [S] 3 points 10 days ago
Ha, I had to look it up to make sure you weren't yanking my chain. I had never heard of it. I'll have to look into it some more!
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[–]molten_dragon 3 points 10 days ago
It's not something I'd want to play all the time, but it's actually pretty fun, in a cliched, ridiculous over-the-top kind of way.
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[–]Sirkkus Toronto, ON 7 points 9 days ago
The Burning Wheel Codex has rules for corrupted magic where you actually have a corruption stat that gets higher as you use magic. Having a higher corruption stat is useful, but every time is goes up bad stuff happens. I've used it once before and it's really cool. Of course, the Burning Wheel is not a game you pick up lightly and is not everyone's cup of tea.
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[–]shiginoth [S] 2 points 9 days ago
That's a cool mechanic, I'll look it up!
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[–]Shakyor 2 points 9 days ago
Actually Burning Wheel has lots of other stuff, like blood magic and bargaining with demons and spirits!
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[–]Trogglord 1 point 9 days ago
Just to add, the base sorcery rules in Burning Wheel can also punish you whenever you fail your skill roll, and tax your forte even when you succeed.
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[–]fibericon Taipei 6 points 9 days ago
Shadowrun. When you use magic, you roll to resist its drain, which is different for each spell, and typically dependent on how powerful it is. If you fail, you could knock yourself out. If you fail not so badly, you could end up with a headache. However, for a spell that's actually out of your league, you could die.
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[–]Brainfreeze10 3 points 9 days ago
I remember back in the day we would play kids that would start out the fight casting Manaball and just hoping to get a big enough effect on the fight...since the character would be passed out after that one spell.
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[–]Alistair_Leonhart 5 points 9 days ago
Unknown Armies. It's a game based in the real world, and the ones who do practice magick (as in, magic-with-a-k to distinguish it from prestidigitation) are called adepts, of which there are many different schools, but the three main rules are: The Law of Symbolic Tension: All magick is based on a paradox of some sort The Law of Transaction: Magick requires sacrifice. No free rides. The Law of Obedience: Magick is the first thing to you, by definition. You cannot follow two schools at once more than you can run a car normally and on reverse at once, and they all have taboos you shall never perform if you wish to keep their magick juice, even though those taboos are pretty normal stuff to mundanes.
Adepts are broken people that truly believe one single thing everyone takes for granted, is wrong. Self-harm is not actually harming yourself, it's a proof of your control over your body. Guns are not tools to kill, they are the expression of human evolution and authority. Danger is safety, and safety is danger. By believing and obsessing so much with their worldview over that single thing, the cosmos is warped by their sheer willpower, and they begin noticing effects. Then, each time they perform a ritualized action for their magick school, they earn a "charge", that can be Minor, Significant or Major. Minors can usually be earned every couple hours or every day, Significants can be done one or two each week, and Majors are often one or two for an entire lifetime, if you even manage to achieve getting one and survive.
The first example mentioned above are Epideromancers. Those guys damage themselves to control their own flesh and bones, and those of other people. They're probably the most straightforward magick school, one of the most popular ones, and one of the nastiest ones. By cutting themselves slightly (minors), literally stabbing themselves or otherwise performing an attack on their body (significants) or mutilating an important part of their body (Majors), they get charges that can be used to, for example, increase their max amount of Wound Points (HP up, if you will, by using minor charges), utterly deface and deform someone else's body in a severely painful and damaging way (significants), or permanently acquire the ability to switch genders (Majors). Their taboo is allowing someone else to modify their body in any way, from tattoos to cutting their hair to staying in the hospital after regaining consciousness.
The second example are Fulminaturges (gun adepts). By carrying a firearm in public that can be easily seen for a number of hours (minor), doing so with a concealed weapon (significant) or making an entire functioning gun from scrap with machinery and materials that you made and mined yourself (Majors), you can in no particular order avoid Stress Checks by touching your Totem Gun (Minor), Shoot someone with a bullet invisible to everyone but them, that leaves no residues or even real wounds (so, it's an unhealable attack by conventional means) or become completely immune to any firearm (Major). Their taboo is actually firing a gun, or alternatively, being disarmed.
The last example from the list are Entropomancers. Entropomancers are literal chaos mages, surrendering to chaos to draw from it afterwards. They get minors by putting small injuries, significant amounts of money or significant humiliation on the line (in a bet, for example), significant charges by doing something so stupid and pointless, it COULD cost them their lives in at least a 1/10 chance of death (like staying a whole combat round doing nothing or jumping in front of an assailant), and this cannot bring any other tangible benefit than the significant charge; and finally, they get Major Charges from putting in pointless danger both their lives AND those of at least 10 other people, or someone significant to the Entropomancer. They can then proceed to inflict several rolling penalties to their enemies or reroll their own mess-ups (minor), inscribe any word or symbol they think of in the flesh of their enemies in a very painful and damaging way or automatically win any failed roll (significant), or REWRITE THEIR OWN HISTORY with Major Charges. Their taboo is allowing someone else to be put in a dangerous situation they're fully aware of.
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[–]Corund LOCATION 1 point 9 days ago
This is the proper answer to the OP's question. I'd love to see a TV series with a UA theme in which the magus was a side character. Like a consultant in weird investigations. The show would be about ordinary humans coming to terms with how screwed up the universe is, that there is no god, and it's all our own fault. And they have this junky friend who hands out advice about where to look, while telling them not to look if they value their sanity, and pulls them out of the fire in the penultimate episode after taking inhuman amounts of narcotics.
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[–]saythenado 5 points 9 days ago*
Symbaroum. When you cast and learn spells you gain corruption and is heavily tied with the workings of that world. Corruption does some horrible things to your character; he can completely turn into an abomination (you lose the character) if you cast too much.
Edit: I've played most of the other games listed and genuinely recommend at least looking at this. It can be genuinely terrifying casting just a couple spells. Even just getting half of your corruption threshold filled causes some weird mutations and permanent corruption (which is often very hard to get rid of). Spells is the first thing I look at when starting a new game. None of them have quite the same lore appropriate dread that this system has.
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[–]raleel 3 points 9 days ago
Mythras, specifically with the Monster Island supplement does this. Depending on how bad the thing is, it can go from the faster being clumsy for 1d3 hours to losing 1d6 dex permanently to dex being reduced to species minimum. There are lots of options on this. 39 in total. I think my favorite is tongue and lower jaw vanish, vcpausing a major wound to the head.
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[–]TuesdayTastic 3 points 9 days ago
For dnd I made this one post on how to use the 8 deadly sins for the 8 schools of magic. Of course you can modify it however you want for your system but this might give you some ideas.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDBehindTheScreen/comments/53sxjw/the_various_schools_of_magic_make_you_feel_the/?sort=confidence
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[–]seanfsmith talk to me about EXUVIAE 1 point 9 days ago
That's such a cool idea! Thanks for sharing :)
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[–]TuesdayTastic 1 point 9 days ago
No problem :)
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[–]JarlDM 3 points 9 days ago
Symbaroum or any of the Warhammer FFG games.
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[–]lvl20dm 2 points 9 days ago
Dresden Files RPG has a pretty good system.
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[–]ericvulgaris 2 points 9 days ago
Warhammer Fantasy (2e) and Burning Wheel both have some pretty cool and dark magic systems!
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[–]ScooterinAB 2 points 9 days ago
Deadlands does to a point. Hucksters were literally gambling with power, and characters like Sykers had options to push their power past their limits, though it could have consequences.
Star Wars does to an extent, though the problems are more long term.
And I have seen some lower magic fantasy games that do this (Lejendary Adventure I think was one).
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[–]phorden 2 points 9 days ago
Mage: The Awakening 2nd Edition. Using powerful magic and personal horror are key parts of the game. Magic causing actual paradoxes is a core part of the game. It is a very risk vs. reward game.
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[–]gtwucla The Northern Realm 2 points 9 days ago
I made one for my own game that comes up each time you roll doubles, triples, and quadruples and in order to make your spells more powerful you must spend more dice (therefore increasing the likelihood of rolling the same number). It's also something you could grab and apply to other systems with a little work. If your interested https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ipevdyfjpnhgt2/Northern%20Realm%20part%201,%20second%20edition.pdf?dl=0. There are hyperlinks so if you download it click down to Chapter 6: Spellcasters.
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[–]abcd_z Rules-lite gamer 2 points 9 days ago*
GURPS Thaumatology has spirit-assisted casting, which is a generalization and expansion of Demonic Contracts and Black Magic from GURPS Magic. You can cast (and possibly learn) certain spells at a reduced price. The more you cast them, the more you take penalties to casting any spells that aren't in line with your patron spirit/demon. Eventually you hit a certain point and start losing character advantages and getting them replaced with appropriate character disadvantages. When there are no more substitutions that can meaningfully take place, your character becomes an NPC.
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[–]AfterShave92 2 points 9 days ago
I think the way Eon does magic is very interesting. It's quite freeform even if the effects are often limited and magic suffers from horrendously difficult rolls. Which also makes the reality warping aspects of bothching magic happen more often than you would like.
The thing that does it for me though is that you have this long list of "mancies" that the different schools of magic. Most of them have two ways of drawing power into a spell. The first is using the world around you, say a bonfire for pyromancy or the lake next to you for hydromancy.
But the second way is to draw from your own body. Sometimes it's abstract. You can use "the light of your eyes" to cast light magic blinding you more the more power you draw. Your own life for necromancy taking damage, the heat of your body taking lots of exhaustion to cast stuff from "heatmancy" (I don't remember the exact name but heat and fire is distinctly separate).
There are some safe aspects that just permeate the universe and can pretty much always be used though if you don't want to deal with having access to fire every time you want to shoot fire. Like time/chaos/stasis kinds of magic are always around.
There's some weirdness that probably needs houseruling like heat and cold magic needing the environment or the object to be hotter/colder than the environment around it. Cryomancy is used in cold areas to make even more cold, but you can't technically draw power from the cold if everything is already just as cold using that wording etc.
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[–]anonlymouse 2 points 8 days ago
HQRP (High Quality Roleplaying) has this in a pretty extreme form. One of the magics is Dentomancy, you have to pull a tooth to cast a spell. Once you're out of teeth, no more spells.
ZeFRS (retroclone of Conan) has insanity associated with each spell that you learn.
JAGS Wonderland has a unique magic system in that you shift to an alternate reality where you have different physical characteristics, and actions you take in the alternate reality have an invisible influence on the normal world. While you're learning magic you have the risk of straight up disappearing from existence. Or even if you're not learning magic.
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[–]OurModsAreFaggots 1 point 9 days ago
Not an actual RPG system, but a mechanic within a system I love the idea of is any sort of blood magic, casting magic from your own life force. Unfortunately, I've not come across one I really like in context.
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[–]Jonathan_the_Nerd 1 point 9 days ago
In Microlite20, you have to spend hit points to cast spells. You can't regain those hit points except by sleeping for eight hours.
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[–]AlmightyK Modifier of adaptions and Creator of Weapons of Body and Soul 1 point 9 days ago
Demon Hunters has ritual based magic. There are no set rules for it as it is more of a comedic game, but the idea is that all magic is making a deal with a divine (maybe) being and they do something in return. Sometimes it's sacrificing a newborn, and sometimes it's a cup of coffee and a snickers.
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