dhelmise
 a ajouté
Tuthur
 au groupe. — Hier à 23:35
[23:35]dhelmise[OMs]
: ok hi, give me one more second
[23:38]dhelmise[OMs]
: so as im sure you are aware, there was a situation with French PL recently regarding substitutions, and i am sure you're aware of the events happening following that
[23:39]Tuthur: I am
[23:41]dhelmise[OMs]
: following those events, a report was made regarding your conduct in the French PL and community discord, and a fairy and I ended up getting looped into the talk surrounding that report (because UM leaders etc).
[23:42]Tuthur: I left the server almost immediately after and stopped discussing about it after Clem told me to stop
[23:42]Tuthur: Im still a room voice there
[23:43]Tuthur: I thought this was setlef
[23:43]Tuthur: *settled
[23:44]dhelmise[OMs]
: there were more things that came up after you left the discord, namely making a post that seemed like it was made to rally support, and some events a few weeks after where you kept going into another tournament manager chat and calling the host team bad and the community 'french noobs'
[23:46]Tuthur: Yeah and i stopped after Clem send me a dm
[23:49]dhelmise[OMs]
: yes, but the fact that this happened weeks after you were told to stop originally, and combined with some reports of power abuse in the french community, as well as the previous instances that caused you to get demoted and other issues that came up up from other tournaments like trouble responding to criticism, a discussion about this was needed
[23:49]dhelmise[OMs]
: (i would like to note that our little spat about om tour hosting was not included in this discussion at all, fwiw, because i was in the wrong about how i approached you there)
[23:50]Tuthur: Im having trouble following the chronology. I stopped immediately after receiving a DM from Clem
[23:50]dhelmise[OMs]
: apologies, i was mentioning other things that have happened alongside the french stuff, not necessarily in chronological order
[23:51]Tuthur: Im not understanding what other tournament you are talking about then. Idr talking about any hosting besides FCL
[23:51]dhelmise[OMs]
: it wasnt hosting, it was a situation regarding power rankings in LTWC
[23:52]Tuthur: Also I wanna add if you were aware of how french hosts depicted me in public before i even said anything
[23:52]dhelmise[OMs]
: sorry for the vagueness
[23:52]Tuthur: So its about feen?
[23:52]dhelmise[OMs]
: no
[23:52]dhelmise[OMs]
: that was one topic that was brought up of the many i just mentioned
[23:53]dhelmise[OMs]
: im unsure what you mean here
[23:53]Tuthur: Let me join back french server real quick to grab you some logs
[23:56]Tuthur: nvm they archived the tournament logs, so i cant take any screenshots
[23:56]dhelmise[OMs]
: i can try to look into that in a bit, but nonetheless this isn't the point of us reaching out
[23:56]Tuthur:
Transféré
Sub out Exiline

Suite à l'absence de réponse d’Exiline aux nombreuses et pourtant très tendres relances de Patatex pour le schedule, un sub forcé a été décidé.

Le capitaine, dans un élan de pure émotion, a bien tenté de faire passer ça pour un drame national… mais rassurez-vous, tout va bien, ce n’est que la FCL.

On lui souhaite bon courage dans son deuil de line-up initial.

@rôle inconnu
[23:56]Tuthur: but basically they made a public announcement to call me out for defending my player in the manager channel
[23:57]Tuthur: well im failing to see why you are reaching out
[23:57]dhelmise[OMs]
: im getting there 😭
[00:01]dhelmise[OMs]
: i am really sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but after a lengthy discussion regarding the french PL/community things, former issues with leadership in ZU, and issues with responding to criticism, it was decided to strip you from your forum mod positions. you are still free to keep all of your PS staff if you do choose, and you are allowed to post a resignation announcement for this if you'd like.
[00:01]Tuthur: ?
[00:02]Tuthur: but you didnt even tell me what i did
[00:02]dhelmise[OMs]
: i did... but if you'd like me to be more specific i can be
[00:05]Tuthur: I dont understand anything about the french pl thing
[00:06]Tuthur: I got publicly called out for arguing in the manager channel and then even insulted by some hosts, while i was being cordial. I shouldn't have talked about it in other places, but I stopped immediatly after Clem asked me to. They even accepted to keep me as room voice and im still friend with most staff, i really dont understand how this can blow up so much
[00:06]dhelmise[OMs]
:
one of your players got subbed out in French PL because of issues with scheduling attempts
you requested a double sub, but that double sub was denied because it was shown that your player was ignoring pings
you started lashing out in public and private channels after this, including leaking the managers chat  and calling the decision stupid and asking for a public announcement to be made so people can "see how dumb it is"
after you left the community discord and resigned, you made a post on smogon asking for clarification (that you already received in DMs and other private avenues beforehand), and this post came off as trying to gather community support against the hosts
a few weeks after this, you kept going into another manager chat to call the host team bad and the community at large french noobs
[00:07]dhelmise[OMs]
: this is the best summary i can give for french pl
[00:07]Tuthur: yeah that's not what happened
[00:08]dhelmise[OMs]
: can you please explain further then
[00:14]Tuthur: i didnt lash out at any points in private channels. i only replied to people who were litterally insulting me in public channels after the public announcement i posted above was given as the reasoning to people on why the situation happened. Im letting you translate it if you wish, but it was written by a host and approved by two other hosts, including a room owner.
My post is explaining my point of view on the situation, there is no question in it.
I only could find instances of me calling the french host team noobs on the day it happened. I might misremember things, but i received a dm from clem two weeks after the incident, and idr posting anything after that (and idr posting anything after the first couple days)
[00:16]Tuthur: also, i feel like the french community would have demoted me from room voice if what i did was so terrible for them
[00:16]Tuthur: clem told me, they even warned some of the hosts for how they treated me
[00:16]dhelmise[OMs]
: like i said, the demotion is not just because of the french thing
[00:17]dhelmise[OMs]
: its that in combination with the other behavioral issues that got you demoted initially and other concerns that were brought up in other sections of the site, namely LTPL
[00:17]Tuthur: can you tell me more about ltwc
[00:18]Tuthur: because of everything i saw is feen getting beef with everyone for not wanting to submit power rankings and lowkey calling us racist
[00:23]dhelmise[OMs]
: feen asked you why you were making a power ranking for a world cup because of the valid point of it being weird to rank teams build on ethnicity/nationality, and instead of addressing those concerns and the suggestion of doing team descriptions instead, you countered by saying the people hosting WC are weird for making teams built on ethnicity/nationality compete against each other, said it was too late to get new writers, claimed writing descriptions was harder than writing a PR, and calling feen 'petty' for boycotting prs because they were announced 'a month ago' when the sentiment att was they were team descs and not prs, and instead of trying to continue to talk it through, you said "yeah ig i can fuck myself and i know nothing about what's happening", which showcases the concerns brought up about your behavior in tense situations
[00:25]dhelmise[OMs]
: another thing worth mentioning is while the french team might have blown over the concerns for the french thing, the french staff team is not the same as senior staff, and ss thinks the behavior showcased there is unbecoming of a moderator
[00:27]Tuthur:
Image (feen: And you're not a host so idk why I'm engaging in conversation with you regarding this ?_?
Tuthur: yeah ig i can fuck myself and i know nothing about what's happening)
[00:27]dhelmise[OMs]
: yes i have this log
[00:27]dhelmise[OMs]
: that response isnt really warranted
[00:28]Tuthur: do you have the whole logs of the channel
[00:28]dhelmise[OMs]
: i have the logs of the entire discussion surrounding this yes
[00:29]Tuthur: and you're not finding it weird everyone is calling out feen for being a crybaby and nobody is mad at me
[00:29]Tuthur: feen was super annoying when we were trying to do a community project
[00:29]Tuthur: i tried to explain to him calmly why we didnt want to do what he wanted
[00:30]Tuthur: after being lowkey called racist
[00:30]dhelmise[OMs]
: i am not bringing this up because i think he's right or anything, the premise of me bringing this up is instead of trying to engage in this argument respectfully, you were very quick to get defensive
[00:30]dhelmise[OMs]
: i dont see him alluding to you being racist anywhere
[00:31]Tuthur: "it's weird to rank people based on ethnicity"
[00:31]Tuthur: yeah those teams are not based on ethnicity
[00:32]Tuthur: i engaged respectfully until feen went "why am i talking with you? you are not relevant"
[00:32]dhelmise[OMs]
: well that is not what he said
[00:33]dhelmise[OMs]
: the fact of the matter is: you were demoted once for attitude and behavior issues, those resolved which allowed you to be repromoted, but once repromoted more issues surrounding your attitude and behavior in various areas af the website started popping up again
[00:35]Tuthur: what im getting from there is i was demoted for a misrepresented situation regarding frenchpl and for pissing off feen
[00:36]dhelmise[OMs]
: im sorry that's how it comes off, but the way i phrased it is how it was brought up in senior staff and to us
[00:37]Tuthur: well idk what to tell you. the behavior issues are me calling some people who called an idiot 'noobs', and disagreeing with feen
[00:39]dhelmise[OMs]
: what is idiot in french
[00:39]dhelmise[OMs]
: just idiot?
[00:40]Tuthur: idr the exact verbatism they archived the channel
[00:40]Tuthur: but unamed was telling me how much of an idiot i was for understanding the situation
[00:40]Tuthur: also the announcement that i transfered to you is super disrepectful about someone who tried to handle things calmly in the manager channel
[00:41]dhelmise[OMs]
: i have the logs from that and i dont really know if i'd say the entire conversation is calm
[00:41]Tuthur: well we disagreed with each others, but i think i stayed polite
[00:43]a fairy: (hi, moving to mobile since my dinner is getting cold, still reading but might be reading more slowly for a little while)
[00:43]Tuthur: im gonna sleep anw
[00:43]Tuthur: it's almost 1am
[00:44]dhelmise[OMs]
: no worries @ af
[00:45]dhelmise[OMs]
: if you'd like tuthur we can discuss more tomorrow/saturday (since tomorrow is independence day so i will be busy later on) if you'd like, but the demotion is happening regardless. my points about allowing you to make an announcement 'stepping down' still stand, so i will let you rest on that
[00:45]Tuthur: idt there is anything you are willing to discuss
[00:46]dhelmise[OMs]
: i dont think that's true
[00:49]Tuthur: if the demotion is still going through despite half the reasons i was given being completely misconstructed (you didnt even attempt to tell me where i talked poorly of the french host teams weeks later), and the other half being me disagreeing with feen, a smod whos probably the guy who pushed for my demotion and has been hating me for a while
[00:49]Tuthur: then idt there is anything to discuss
[00:50]Tuthur: feen had a point, i explained mine, then he tried to discredit me for not being a host, and i replied in the same tone as him
[00:50]dhelmise[OMs]
: i think you're focusing too hard on the wrong details about this
[00:50]dhelmise[OMs]
: i was summarizingwhat happened and what led up to it being relevant here
[00:51]dhelmise[OMs]
: you’re being demoted for a pattern of behavior in multiple areas over years at this point; you don’t have to agree, and i know it’s disappointing, but that’s the result
[00:51]dhelmise[OMs]
: that being said, if you have complaints about french tournament people's conduct, i will still be here as an avenue to bring that up
[00:51]dhelmise[OMs]
: same for anything with feen
[00:52]Tuthur: the only pattern i reckognize is me disagreeing with a smod (ith then, feen now)
[00:53]Tuthur: id appreciate if you could bring up better examples than flawed ones
[00:57]dhelmise[OMs]
: rest on it and we will talk more tomorrow