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snake_rattler

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Aug 30th, 2017
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  1. This is your 24 hour warning. Please post any thoughts on the threatlist before this time tomorrow!
  2.  
  3. CAP23 should target and dismantle (Pokemon that have a really hard time winning against CAP23 if successfully trapped):
  4. a. Defensive pivots/walls (e.g. doesn't use VoltTurn): Tomohawk, Toxapex, Tangrowth, Arghonaut, Pyroak, Mollux, Mega Venusaur, Zapdos, Chansey
  5.  
  6. CAP23 should target and pressure (Pokemon that have methods to escape CAP23 and should not threaten a healthy CAP23 AND offensive Pokemon that CAP23 naturally checks AND bulky Pokemon that CAP23 might be at odds with):
  7. b. VoltTurn pivots: Landorus-T, Magearna, Rotom-W, Volkraken
  8. c. Excadrill, Volcarona, Keldeo, Tapu Bulu, Charizard-Mega-Y
  9. d. Calm Mind Naviathan, Clefable
  10.  
  11. CAP23 should be checked by:
  12. e. Offensive Steel-types: Kitsunoh, Dragon Dance Naviathan, Mega Mawile, Bisharp
  13. f. Dragon-types: Cyclohm, Dragonite, Zygarde, Mega Charizard-X, Latios
  14. g. Ghost-types: Revenankh, Mimikyu, Kitsunoh, Gengar
  15. h. Ice-types: Syclant, Kyurem-B, Ninetales-A, Mamoswine
  16. i. Dark-types: Ash-Greninja, Greninja, Colossoil, Mega Sableye, Mega Sharpedo, Mega Gyarados, Malaconda
  17. j. Fairy-types: Tapu Lele, Kerfluffle, Mega Diancie, Mega Gardevoir, Azumarill
  18. Krilowatt
  19. CAP23 itself
  20.  
  21. CAP23 should be countered by:
  22. k. Skarmory, Celesteela, Tapu Fini, Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor
  23.  
  24. I'm happy to see this thread shaping up pretty well now! A couple of thoughts though. While @Drapionswing brings up a well-thought argument about how we should threaten stuff that our typing naturally loses to, especially through supereffective damage, we come up with a few problems. Think about Syclant. Heatran, for example, is terrified to switch into it if Syclant even though it resists its STAB Ice Beam and U-turn because Syclant has access to the extremely commonly used Earth Power. Let's think about CAP23: if we want to threaten Pokemon Group A solely based off our STAB moves, but then turn around and give CAP23 coverage to actually beat Pokemon Group A, they aren't going to switch in at all. Suddenly, nothing wants to switch into CAP23. What this means is that we have to make CAP23 very underwhelming as a trapper because if it just outright beats everything, there's no point. Our counters actually have a pretty rough time against CAP23 as well. With the exception of the newly added Mega Scizor, if they switch into a trapping move, they're stuck there while one of CAP23's teammates gets a completely free switch-in.
  25.  
  26. I want to bring attention to Krilowatt and CAP23 itself in the checks list. Krilowatt, quite frankly, is a bad check: even though it has Ice Beam and Volt Switch, because we know nothing about CAP23's stats, Krilowatt could easily not threaten CAP23 at all. In fact, it fits in the VoltTurn pivots section in target and pressure much better than checks. I hope everyone can consider that Krilowatt be removed from the checks list and into the target and pressure section. As for CAP23 itself, if Garchomp mercilessly beats the team you just built, what do you do? Do you a) try to swap around Pokemon to have a better matchup against it or b) add Garchomp because it speed-ties and technically checks? You never (or shouldn't ever) make choice b. Therefore, it makes little sense that CAP23 should actually check CAP23 itself. That said, does that mean CAP23 shouldn't speed tie or outspeed any of the Pokemon on the checks list? No. I'm not confining our speed stat to less than Mega Sableye, which is one of our current checks. However, CAP23 should not have to specifically lose to itself just because it has stabs that are supereffective against each other. If anything, CAP23 itself belongs in target and pressure. I think moving these two from checks to the target and pressure section for the final list tomorrow might be the best course of action. So, I ask you...
  27.  
  28. Should Krilowatt and CAP23 itself be moved to target and pressure? If not, why should they remain checks?
  29. Are there any other Pokemon on the checks list that need to be moved to target and pressure as well? Or moved to counters? Please elaborate with justification.
  30.  
  31. DrapionSwing did provide a nice list of Pokemon that CAP23 should target and pressure though, so I've included some of them there like Volcarona, Volkraken, and Tapu Bulu, among others. It's important to focus on these Pokemon as well, as CAP23 has a really great defensive typing, and potentially trapping some of these offensive Pokemon can help bring in a teammate who can counter them. As for VoltTurn pivots, these are pivots who we want to either pressure because we force them to click the pivot move OR because we don't want to explicitly lose to them (at least, not die to them).
  32.  
  33. Are there any other offensive Pokemon that should be added to target and pressure? Are there any that should be removed? Please provide thoughtful and relevant reasoning.
  34.  
  35. Finally, I'd like to bring attention to our target and dismantle section and our counters section. This is the absolute last chance we have to discuss these, and these are extremely important lists for our project, so if there are any last doubts or concerns about them, they need to happen now.
  36.  
  37. Does the target and dismantle section need to experience any additions or removals? If so, please explain why.
  38. Does the counters section need to experience any additions or removals? If so, please explain why.
  39.  
  40. Again, 24 hour warning takes effect now. Let's finish this stage strong!
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