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Binney Gage Corbett AE911Truth Raw Draft TXT Dump

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  1. [MUSIC]
  2.  
  3. William Binney spent 30 years with the NSA
  4. before resigning in 2001
  5.  
  6. and beginning a whistleblowing crusade
  7.  
  8. over the agency's flagrant violation
  9. of the US Constitution.
  10.  
  11. Now, he has joined forces
  12. with Richard Gage,
  13.  
  14. signing the petition from Architects
  15. and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
  16.  
  17. calling for a new investigation
  18.  
  19. into what really happened on 9/11/2001.
  20.  
  21. This is a GRTV feature interview
  22. with our special guests,
  23.  
  24. William Binney and Richard Gage.
  25.  
  26. Well, let's start with you, William Binney,
  27.  
  28. because this is your first time
  29. on the program.
  30.  
  31. And perhaps, for some of my listeners...
  32.  
  33. I'm sure many of my listeners
  34. will be familiar with you,
  35.  
  36. but for those who aren't,
  37.  
  38. why don't we just talk a little bit
  39. about your background,
  40.  
  41. your time with the NSA, and what
  42. drove you to become an NSA whistleblower.
  43.  
  44. OK. Now, I started my experience
  45. in the SIGINT business,
  46.  
  47. the Signals Intelligence business,
  48. with the United States Army back in 1965.
  49.  
  50. I was getting out of school then,
  51.  
  52. and they were drafting people to go
  53. in the Army and kill people in Vietnam.
  54.  
  55. So I -- being a country boy, you know --
  56. I was a good shot,
  57.  
  58. so I was a candidate, prime candidate:
  59.  
  60. everybody I knew going into the military
  61. at that time, being drafted,
  62.  
  63. was being... were put into
  64. these rifle companies
  65.  
  66. and sent out in the front lines
  67. in Vietnam to kill people.
  68.  
  69. So, I didn't want to do that,
  70. so I checked out my options,
  71.  
  72. and ended up volunteering: what could I do
  73. to avoid that kind of thing?
  74.  
  75. So the recruiters, they told me
  76. all kinds of stories,
  77.  
  78. but the point was that they said,
  79.  
  80. "You can get into intelligence here,
  81. and you won't be in the rifle companies,
  82.  
  83. and so you can have an opportunity
  84. to do something other than kill people."
  85.  
  86. And so I thought that was a great option,
  87. so I figured I'd do that.
  88.  
  89. And so that was my introduction to NSA,
  90.  
  91. and that got me into
  92. the intelligence business at NSA.
  93.  
  94. And from there on,
  95. I wanted to get out of the service,
  96.  
  97. and they wanted to recruit me;
  98. and so I became a high-priority recruit,
  99.  
  100. and then I joined NSA as a civilian.
  101.  
  102. Got out of the service in '69,
  103. joined NSA in '70,
  104.  
  105. and then I stayed there
  106. until October, 2001,
  107.  
  108. and throughout that career I was...
  109. for almost 30 years,
  110.  
  111. I was involved in analysing
  112. the Soviet Union,
  113.  
  114. breaking codes and things like that:
  115.  
  116. data systems, ciphers,
  117. all kinds of things like that.
  118.  
  119. And that's where I got into doing
  120. that kind of thing.
  121.  
  122. And so I was designing systems
  123. at that time,
  124.  
  125. and the systems I came up with were a way
  126. to solve the volume-velocity problem,
  127.  
  128. and do a selective attack on... being able to look at all the data, first of all,
  129.  
  130. and then select out only that
  131. which was relevant to issues of crime,
  132.  
  133. or military, or any kind
  134. of political activity in the world,
  135.  
  136. so that we could monitor that
  137. and keep track of that.
  138.  
  139. Well, that was... that solution I came on board in 2002, and we...
  140.  
  141. or, late 2000 we had it running completely.
  142.  
  143. And so we were, at the time,
  144. proposing we deploy that
  145.  
  146. to take care of the terrorist problems
  147. at 18 sites around the world...
  148.  
  149. -- for $9 million. OK?
  150. That's all it was gonna cost --
  151.  
  152. ...so we could monitor everything
  153. the terrorists were doing
  154.  
  155. any time they did anything. And that was the whole point of it. So...
  156.  
  157. To make it short, they rejected that
  158. because it didn't cost enough money;
  159.  
  160. it didn't build a big empire, and...
  161.  
  162. you know, that was their
  163. fundamental problem with it.
  164.  
  165. So, that's what they did, then.
  166.  
  167. They basically ignored it
  168. even after, until 9/11.
  169.  
  170. And then they looked around and they said,
  171.  
  172. "Well, hey." This program that we did
  173. would handle massive amounts of data.
  174.  
  175. In other words, we saw no limit
  176. as to how much data we could handle.
  177.  
  178. And we could index it, and graph it,
  179. and understand what was in it,
  180.  
  181. and also map it together so we could do
  182. timelines for all kinds of massive data.
  183.  
  184. So that was the thing that they looked as
  185. as useful to them,
  186.  
  187. to monitor everybody in the United States,
  188. and, indeed, everybody in the world.
  189.  
  190. And so that's where they went, and they
  191. did that starting in October of 2001.
  192.  
  193. And so at that point, I decided,
  194.  
  195. "Well, I have to get the hell out of here,
  196.  
  197. because I can't be a part of this,
  198. you know."
  199.  
  200. So... and this was a real mess,
  201. and I couldn't stand by.
  202.  
  203. And so for the next seven years I tried,
  204.  
  205. along with Kirk Wiebe and Diane Roarke
  206. and Tom Drake,
  207.  
  208. to try to get the government
  209. to correct its ways
  210.  
  211. by working inside the government,
  212. going to the Intelligence Committees,
  213.  
  214. the Inspector Generals of the Department
  215. of Defense and the Department of Justice,
  216.  
  217. and also other members of Congress
  218.  
  219. that weren't part of the
  220. Intelligence Committees:
  221.  
  222. and none of that worked.
  223.  
  224. It was all basically a failure.
  225.  
  226. All it did was draw attention to us,
  227.  
  228. and that we were loose cannons on deck,
  229. so to speak,
  230.  
  231. and nobody wanted anybody to be aware of
  232. the real program that they were running,
  233.  
  234. and so they sent the FBI to raid us
  235. and threaten us and intimidate us,
  236.  
  237. and then they used the DOJ after that
  238. to threaten us with prosecution.
  239.  
  240. They manufactured evidence, by the way
  241.  
  242. -- which I caught them at:
  243. that's why they dropped it --
  244.  
  245. Tom... I didn't have the evidence to save
  246. Tom Drake, so he had to go to trial,
  247.  
  248. but Jim Bamford also looked at that
  249. and found all the data
  250.  
  251. that they were accusing him of having
  252. that was classified:
  253.  
  254. he found it all on the Web.
  255.  
  256. I mean, it was all issued
  257. by NSA on the Web.
  258.  
  259. So I mean, this is our
  260. Department of Justice
  261.  
  262. fabricating evidence to try people.
  263.  
  264. I mean, this is insane, you know?
  265.  
  266. This is why I've been calling this a police state.
  267.  
  268. And that shift in focus towards mass bulk collection of data
  269.  
  270. was motivated specifically by 9/11?
  271.  
  272. Or was that something that had been discussed before the events of 9/11?
  273.  
  274. Well, at the time, I thought it was
  275. motivated by 9/11,
  276.  
  277. but later on, in 2006, when some testimony
  278. by the CEO of Qwest, Nacchio...
  279.  
  280. -- and his court case came out --
  281. ...and the lawyer said that Nacchio...
  282.  
  283. -- and they had records for the visit and all,
  284. to go with that --
  285.  
  286. was visited on the 27th of February
  287. of 2001 by someone from NSA.
  288.  
  289. It was either General Hayden
  290. or someone else.
  291.  
  292. And they came in and asked him
  293. to supply them
  294.  
  295. with all the customer data
  296. that he had on hand,
  297.  
  298. and all the billing records
  299. and communications
  300.  
  301. of all the people
  302. who were his subscribers.
  303.  
  304. It's just like the billing data
  305. they took from AT&T and Verizon:
  306.  
  307. just like that Verizon order,
  308. this was, again, without a court order,
  309.  
  310. and it was done, basically, by word-of-mouth.
  311. And he said,
  312.  
  313. "Well, if you give me a warrant,
  314. I'll give it to ya."
  315.  
  316. And of course, they weren't
  317. prepared to do that.
  318.  
  319. So, they wanted to do it all in secret:
  320.  
  321. again, because it was a violation
  322. of our Constitutional rights,
  323.  
  324. and they didn't want anybody opposing it.
  325.  
  326. So there was a shift already taking place,
  327. but it was certainly...
  328.  
  329. the public unveiling of that, just,
  330. was motivated by 9/11,
  331.  
  332. and the supposed terrorist threat
  333. that 9/11 itself represented.
  334.  
  335. So that brings us, I think,
  336. to the other part of our conversation
  337.  
  338. with our so-far silent partner,
  339. Richard Gage.
  340.  
  341. First of all, Richard: obviously
  342. my regular listeners
  343.  
  344. will be familiar with yourself
  345. and your organization,
  346.  
  347. but there's always
  348. new listeners joining in.
  349.  
  350. Why don't you just explain to us
  351.  
  352. what Architects and Engineers
  353. for 9/11 Truth is.
  354.  
  355. We're a non-profit organization of over
  356. 2,200 architects and engineers, now,
  357.  
  358. demanding a real investigation of
  359. what happened at the World Trade Center.
  360.  
  361. We have over 19,000 other individuals
  362. joining us,
  363.  
  364. demanding a real investigation,
  365. based on the specific evidence,
  366.  
  367. the scientific evidence
  368. for explosive-controlled demolition
  369.  
  370. at all three World Trade Center
  371. skyscrapers on 9/11.
  372.  
  373. Now, tell us specifically about
  374. the petition that's available for signing
  375.  
  376. by architects and engineers
  377. and other supporters at AE911Truth.org
  378.  
  379. The petition demands of Congress
  380. a real investigation
  381.  
  382. of the destruction of these
  383. three high-rises,
  384.  
  385. including World Trade Center Building 7,
  386.  
  387. a 47-story skyscraper that falls
  388. on the afternoon of 9/11
  389.  
  390. -- without having been hit
  391. by an airplane --
  392.  
  393. straight down, uniformly, symmetrically,
  394. into its own footprint, just about,
  395.  
  396. at free-fall acceleration,
  397. in under seven seconds.
  398.  
  399. So these licensed and degreed individuals
  400. are placing their reputations on the line,
  401.  
  402. having looked at and examined
  403. the eyewitness testimony,
  404.  
  405. the video testimony, and the forensic
  406. evidence available to everybody
  407.  
  408. on the Internet...
  409. -- not in the mainstream media --
  410.  
  411. ...based on all of that,
  412. demanding a real investigation.
  413.  
  414. NIST, the National Institute
  415. of Standards and Technology,
  416.  
  417. did not perform an investigation at all:
  418. they were just building reports,
  419.  
  420. and they are full of fraud.
  421.  
  422. Now, this is where we can start
  423. to connect these two narratives.
  424.  
  425. Mr. Binney, I understand
  426. that you recently signed the petition
  427.  
  428. to become a supporter of AE911Truth.
  429.  
  430. Tell us about the story of how and when
  431. you came to sign this petition.
  432.  
  433. Well, I was at the Ridenhour Award
  434. ceremony in 30 April of this year.
  435.  
  436. I was asked to accept the award
  437. for Laura Poitras.
  438.  
  439. Both Laura and Snowden
  440. got awards there at that time.
  441.  
  442. And I was accepting for Laura;
  443. and we had a conference afterward:
  444.  
  445. a panel meeting that discussed
  446. some of the issues
  447.  
  448. with what was going on
  449. in the United States at the time.
  450.  
  451. And David Schlesinger was there;
  452.  
  453. and he asked me, towards the end
  454. of the panel,
  455.  
  456. If I would come and just listen to them
  457. to hear what they had to say.
  458.  
  459. So I did: I agreed to do that.
  460.  
  461. And of course, it took me a while
  462. to do that;
  463.  
  464. and that was just recently that I did.
  465.  
  466. And I went to Dr. Tim Eastman's house.
  467.  
  468. He's a physicist; and David and Tim
  469. took me through all the evidence
  470.  
  471. that they were looking at
  472. and talking about.
  473.  
  474. Because I had never looked at that myself,
  475. because I'm not a structural engineer
  476.  
  477. or a demolitions expert,
  478. or anything like that.
  479.  
  480. So I couldn't... what I would say about it
  481. doesn't really mean a great deal,
  482.  
  483. because I don't know that much.
  484.  
  485. But I do know science,
  486.  
  487. and I do know what good science is
  488. and what bad science is.
  489.  
  490. And it was pretty clear to me
  491. that, at best,
  492.  
  493. what they were doing, and what they
  494. could call it, was sloppy science.
  495.  
  496. And that was what I got out of
  497. the NIST statements.
  498.  
  499. So from there, I just said, well,
  500. I would sign the petition
  501.  
  502. to get a new investigation
  503. that wouldn't ignore basic facts
  504.  
  505. or basic observable occurrences.
  506.  
  507. That's fundamental to science.
  508. You don't...
  509.  
  510. basic observation is fundamental.
  511.  
  512. I mean, It's not something you resist
  513. because you don't like something:
  514.  
  515. you don't ignore it.
  516.  
  517. And like I said earlier, I mean, if you...
  518.  
  519. you'll never solve a crypto problem
  520. if you take that approach.
  521.  
  522. You just will absolutely fail every time.
  523.  
  524. So that's why... that's how I came
  525. to sign this petition.
  526.  
  527. So, Mr. Gage, I understand
  528. this is your first time
  529.  
  530. talking to Mr. Binney directly.
  531.  
  532. What was your reaction when you found out
  533.  
  534. that he was one of the signatories
  535. to this petition?
  536.  
  537. I was delighted that we have
  538.  
  539. former high-level officials
  540. in the US intelligence, and others
  541.  
  542. who have come forward to join us
  543.  
  544. in our growing call
  545. for a new investigation.
  546.  
  547. Those Bill's (xx) are impeccable,
  548. and he is getting the word out,
  549.  
  550. along with the other whistleblowers
  551. in the United States.
  552.  
  553. And we have to have more and more people
  554. like Bill stepping forward,
  555.  
  556. or, like, Bill said,
  557. we're very concerned, also,
  558.  
  559. that we're stepping into a police state
  560.  
  561. as a result of the policies enacted
  562. as a result of 9/11.
  563.  
  564. So if there's any question about
  565. what happened on 9/11,
  566.  
  567. then we've got to have a real investigation that gets at the truth.
  568.  
  569. After all, we've lost 6,000 US soldiers;
  570.  
  571. a million Iraqis and Afghanis have lost
  572. their lives, at least: maybe two million;
  573.  
  574. and we have draconian policies
  575. that have set forth, that have...
  576.  
  577. Well, our legislators have sacrificed
  578. our civil liberties in favor of security.
  579.  
  580. So, we don't hand in our freedom
  581. for security,
  582.  
  583. especially with all of the questions
  584. that Bill is raising,
  585.  
  586. or we're going to lose both.
  587.  
  588. That is a very astute observation.
  589.  
  590. So, Mr. Binney, you obviously have been
  591. in the United States for the past 13 years
  592.  
  593. and viewing what's going on;
  594.  
  595. and yet you say that this is the first time
  596. in that 13 years
  597.  
  598. that you've really been presented
  599. with the evidence
  600.  
  601. on controlled demolition at
  602. the World Trade Center complex,
  603.  
  604. in a thoroughgoing manner,
  605. in that 13-year period.
  606.  
  607. What do you think that tells us about
  608. the state of the mainstream media,
  609.  
  610. and its abdication of responsibility
  611.  
  612. in actually informing the public
  613. of these issues?
  614.  
  615. Well, like... I think I tried to imply
  616.  
  617. that they had a selective outcome
  618. they were picking basic facts to meet.
  619.  
  620. So in other words, they were
  621. prejudicing the entire argument
  622.  
  623. to get to a point
  624. where they wanted to be.
  625.  
  626. And nobody challenged that.
  627.  
  628. I mean, our... when it comes
  629. to national security,
  630.  
  631. anything that comes close to that,
  632.  
  633. none of the mainstream media
  634. really challenges it, anyway.
  635.  
  636. I mean, you can see people in Russia,
  637. Russia Today,
  638.  
  639. or maybe when Eliot Spitzer had his show
  640. on Current TV,
  641.  
  642. or Glenn Beck, or Bill Maher even:
  643. it's across the entire spectrum.
  644.  
  645. Those people are standing up and saying,
  646.  
  647. "Hey! This is something we should
  648. really be concerned about."
  649.  
  650. So, but the mainstream media
  651. is out to lunch,
  652.  
  653. And I think that's the way they want to be,
  654. because that gives them...
  655.  
  656. that continues to give them access
  657. to people they need to interview,
  658.  
  659. and things like that, I think.
  660.  
  661. That appears, to me,
  662. to be the reason they're doing it.
  663.  
  664. Well, as I'm sure you're aware,
  665.  
  666. the implications of the petition
  667. that you have signed
  668.  
  669. are -- if you'll excuse then pun --
  670. quite explosive,
  671.  
  672. insofar as they do posit a fundamentally
  673. different narrative of 9/11
  674.  
  675. than the one we've been told
  676. all of this time.
  677.  
  678. And obviously, this hinges on an extremely important detail...
  679.  
  680. -- I suppose you could call it a detail --
  681.  
  682. ...whether or not these buildings
  683. were taken down
  684.  
  685. as the result of a controlled demolition.
  686.  
  687. And if that is the case,
  688. if we can establish that scientifically,
  689.  
  690. that does fundamentally change
  691. the narrative of who was involved,
  692.  
  693. and what the government knew,
  694. and what has taken place in the meantime.
  695.  
  696. What can you say about the implications
  697. of this investigation,
  698.  
  699. and what it can possibly uncover
  700. about what really happened on 9/11?
  701.  
  702. Well, you know, I think I've been
  703. basically saying
  704.  
  705. that they've been perpetrating a fraud
  706. on the people of the United States,
  707.  
  708. so that's really what has to be addressed.
  709. Let's get the truth out here.
  710.  
  711. They don't seem to want
  712. to address the truth.
  713.  
  714. They don't wan't the truth out:
  715. that's all.
  716.  
  717. So my point is very simple:
  718.  
  719. let's have at it again,
  720. and this time let's do it right
  721.  
  722. and be honest with the outcome
  723. that we get.
  724.  
  725. I mean, even if they observe something or
  726. find something and they can't explain it,
  727.  
  728. they should at least say,
  729.  
  730. "Well, we saw this,
  731. but we don't know what it means."
  732.  
  733. They could say that, too.
  734. I mean, that's fair enough.
  735.  
  736. I think no reasonable person
  737. can disagree with that;
  738.  
  739. but unfortunately, as I'm sure
  740. you must be aware,
  741.  
  742. anyone who's even been associated with
  743. questioning the official Commission Report
  744.  
  745. or the Congressional Investigation
  746. into 9/11 has been deemed a crackpot,
  747.  
  748. a conspiracy theorist,
  749. all of these labels.
  750.  
  751. And I'm sure you are now prepared
  752.  
  753. for this label to be applied
  754. to yourself in this case?
  755.  
  756. What do you think might be
  757. the ramifications on this,
  758.  
  759. in terms of the attacks
  760. on your own personal character?
  761.  
  762. Well, I don't see any of that.
  763.  
  764. I mean, after all, they called me
  765. a disgruntled employee
  766.  
  767. when I left talking about these things.
  768.  
  769. So that was the technique they got to...
  770.  
  771. I mean, at least they didn't call me
  772. semi-insane like they did with Russ Tice.
  773.  
  774. I mean, they called him that.
  775. They called him mentally disturbed.
  776.  
  777. And so that was how they discredit people:
  778. it's how you...
  779.  
  780. -- that's standard KGB tactics,
  781. by the way,
  782.  
  783. except the only difference was they didn't
  784. put him in an institution.
  785.  
  786. That's the only difference.
  787.  
  788. The implications of this are staggering
  789. on so many levels.
  790.  
  791. And again, I just don't think that most of
  792. the public truly appreciates this yet.
  793.  
  794. So we have to get the word out about this;
  795.  
  796. and one of the ways
  797. to delegitimize the system, of course,
  798.  
  799. is to delegitimize the founding
  800. rallying principle of all of this,
  801.  
  802. which is the September 11th attacks,
  803.  
  804. which somehow seemed to justify,
  805. in the minds of some,
  806.  
  807. all of this abrogation
  808. of basic civil liberties.
  809.  
  810. So it is a momentous thing, I think,
  811.  
  812. when we start to see some of these
  813. different threads coming together,
  814.  
  815. and different people working together,
  816.  
  817. which is why I am glad
  818. to see William Binney a signatory
  819.  
  820. to 911Truth.org's
  821. [sic: AE911Truth.org]'s petition,
  822.  
  823. which, again, will be linked up
  824. in the show notes for this.
  825.  
  826. Mr. Gage, any final thoughts
  827. that you'd like to leave us with today?
  828.  
  829. I think it's extremely important
  830. that we have people
  831.  
  832. who are not just listening to this
  833. vital information, this wake-up call,
  834.  
  835. but doing something about it.
  836.  
  837. And so we're encouraging everybody,
  838. this September 11th,
  839.  
  840. when the consciousness of the American people and people around the world
  841.  
  842. are focused on 9/11,
  843.  
  844. it is such a vulnerable hinge-point
  845. in the plan, if you will,
  846.  
  847. of the perpetrators
  848. -- whoever they are -- of 9/11
  849.  
  850. that we use it to
  851. the maximum possible extent
  852.  
  853. to break the censorship wall,
  854. the wall of denial in people,
  855.  
  856. by bringing this information
  857.  
  858. as we've highlighted it on our website,
  859. AE911Truth.org.
  860.  
  861. And email it to every architect/engineer,
  862.  
  863. every media official,
  864. every political official that people can.
  865.  
  866. This is the time to act,
  867. and to wake up people,
  868.  
  869. And we've found that the scientific evidence has woken up, if you will...
  870.  
  871. -- in the case of William, here, with us --
  872.  
  873. ...it does work. We've just got
  874. to get people to look at it.
  875.  
  876. And that's the listeners'
  877. responsibility today.
  878.  
  879. Well, then: let's leave it in the hands
  880. of the listeners and viewers out there,
  881.  
  882. and thank both our guests for your time.
  883.  
  884. William Binney, Richard Gage:
  885.  
  886. thank you so much for taking the time
  887. to talk with us today.
  888.  
  889. - Thank you
  890. - Thank you for having me.
  891.  
  892. [MUSIC]
  893.  
  894. For more on this story and other
  895. breaking news and current events,
  896.  
  897. please go to GlobalResearch.ca
  898.  
  899. For more research and analysis
  900. by James Corbett,
  901.  
  902. please go to CorbettReport.com.
  903.  
  904. [MUSIC] The Centre for Research
  905. on Globalization depends on your support.
  906.  
  907. To purchase a book or DVD
  908. or to make a donation,
  909.  
  910. please visit GlobalResearch.ca today.
  911.  
  912. [Subtitled by: Adjuvant]
  913. [CC-BY 4.0]
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