bi talky talk

[10:09pm] azale: crezth
[10:09pm] azale: explain to me what the fuck they did with daisy fitzroy in BI
[10:09pm] azale: thats the one plotpoint i dont really get
[10:10pm] Crezth: mm well
[10:10pm] Crezth: let's think about it together
[10:10pm] Crezth: Fitzroy comes at a point in the plot that is centered around annihilating your sense of coherence with respect to the universe
[10:11pm] Crezth: her character is, literally, a hardboiled revolutionary who is obsessed with the narrative of her revolution
[10:11pm] Crezth: she uses this language directly when she addresses booker: "you complicate the narrative"
[10:11pm] Crezth: so daisy fitzroy represents the literalist, I think
[10:11pm] NK left the chat room. (Quit: The Dawn Cometh.)
[10:12pm] azale: hmm i like that implication better than
[10:12pm] azale: if you take the plot at face value
[10:12pm] Crezth: who takes plots at face value? *snort*
[10:12pm] azale: irrational went super relative
[10:12pm] Crezth: that's not levine's STYLE, man
[10:12pm] Crezth: he never does face value shit
[10:12pm] azale: on fitzroy v comstock
[10:12pm] azale: yea
[10:12pm] azale: which is why i didnt get too worked up
[10:12pm] Crezth: bioshock 1 is all about the unending battle between player and game designer
[10:13pm] SymphonyD: I've created a monster.
[10:13pm] SymphonyD: Soon, Crezth will switch to an English degree.
[10:13pm] azale: cause noone wants to see marshall no more
[10:13pm] SymphonyD: And it'll be all over.
[10:13pm] azale: they want shady im chopped liver
[10:14pm] Crezth: yeah I'm disappointed in the analysis of BI
[10:14pm] Crezth: shit's too meta
[10:14pm] Crezth: in Bioshock the first everyone and their mom picked up on the theme straightaway
[10:15pm] Crezth: those that didn't were generally the people whose reviews were focused too much on the story and less on the artful presentation of themes and elements that supported the central commentary
[10:15pm] Crezth: but people for the most part picked up on it
[10:15pm] SymphonyD: You know what'd be awesome? Like, a breakfast burrito, but Vietnamese/Thai.
[10:15pm] Crezth: B:I though everyone wants to stand out so it's all like
[10:16pm] Crezth: a thai burrito is something my local burrito shop does actually
[10:16pm] Crezth: it's called the bangkok burrito and it's tight
[10:16pm] SymphonyD: Sounds legit.
[10:16pm] SymphonyD: Sriracha is like a perfect alternative to salsa.
[10:16pm] Crezth: anyway i lost my train of thought
[10:16pm] Crezth: I put sriracha on everything.
[10:16pm] SymphonyD: Do like some grilled beef instead of chorizo.
[10:16pm] Crezth: mac and cheese, ham sandwiches, tacos
[10:16pm] SymphonyD: Would be cash.
[10:17pm] Crezth: geez man
[10:17pm] Crezth: reading SMG is just making me think of how little I appreciated that film critique class in high school
[10:17pm] Crezth: I guess I always picked up on the identification of mechanisms
[10:17pm] Crezth: but meaning?
[10:18pm] Crezth: nobody can teach you how to think
[10:18pm] Crezth: shit is hard work
[10:18pm] azale: man why is maniacal
[10:18pm] azale: so annoying to me
[10:18pm] azale: am i alone in thi
[10:18pm] Crezth: maniacal?
[10:18pm] azale: s
[10:18pm] Crezth: is he a poster
[10:18pm] azale: yea
[10:19pm] azale: all other games with the weird green guy avatar
[10:19pm] Crezth: oh yeah I saw
[10:19pm] Masada: SMG?
[10:22pm] azale: huh
[10:22pm] azale: ok so when you're progressing through the story
[10:22pm] azale: and liz is realizing her powers
[10:22pm] azale: but booker is still like...almost tunnel visioned into WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE while liz is like "lets create dimensions lol"
[10:22pm] azale: ok i think im starting to get it
[10:22pm] Masada: get what?
[10:23pm] azale: thing
[10:23pm] azale: s
[10:23pm] Masada: what things are you getting?
[10:23pm] azale: what BI is trying to say
[10:23pm] azale: or do
[10:24pm] Crezth: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=12379103#post12379103
[10:24pm] Crezth: Maniacal is just a sarcasm machine
[10:24pm] Crezth: useless man
[10:25pm] Crezth: Booker and Elizabeth represent two aspects of the player's awareness but the important thing to consider is that every character represents an archetype that inhabits the "universe" of critical analysis.
[10:25pm] azale: well, all the important onscreen ones
[10:26pm] azale: what was the point of the final plot twist then?
[10:26pm] azale: without spoilers for people who havnt played it
[10:26pm] Crezth: Turning off the game.
[10:26pm] SymphonyD: Go play SO:TL.
[10:26pm] Crezth: The shift in the story's focus from Booker to Elizabeth occurs over the course of the game but it's pretty obvious when you think about it.
[10:26pm] Crezth: The first half of the game, up to Finkton, including the Hall of Heroes, is all about Booker.
[10:26pm] azale: yes
[10:27pm] Crezth: Beware the false shepherd, battle of wounded knee, etc.
[10:27pm] Crezth: As you go to Finkton though everything breaks down.
[10:27pm] azale: yes
[10:27pm] Crezth: Booker's grasp of the world is revealed for being as limited as it is.
[10:27pm] Crezth: It's always Elizabeth who identifies the means for forward progression.
[10:27pm] Crezth: She is always telling Booker what's going on.
[10:27pm] Crezth: "This IS Mrs. Lin."
[10:27pm] azale: as soon as you get to chen li, which seemed like a weird breaking point
[10:27pm] Crezth: "In another universe you were a hero."
[10:27pm] Crezth: Etc.
[10:27pm] Luckymoose: hmm
[10:27pm] Luckymoose: that short film
[10:27pm] Luckymoose: was pretty stupid
[10:27pm] Luckymoose: terrance
[10:27pm] Luckymoose: you let me down
[10:28pm] Crezth: So the difference between the two is a matter of perspective which is suitable since they represent different aspects of you, the player's, perspective.
[10:28pm] Crezth: Elizabeth is the understanding that this is all a game but it's subsumed, ultimately, by your experience in Booker's shoes, so to speak.
[10:28pm] Crezth: you do all the interacting with the world through booker's eyes
[10:28pm] Crezth: but elizabeth is your brains.
[10:28pm] azale: oh!
[10:28pm] Crezth: People like Elizabeth because she's a mirror
[10:28pm] azale: i totally understand that
[10:29pm] Crezth: they see themselves in her
[10:29pm] azale: also she's hot
[10:29pm] azale: tee hee
[10:29pm] Crezth: right, she's also idealized
[10:29pm] Crezth: she looks like a disney princess
[10:29pm] azale: including living in a tower
[10:29pm] Crezth: which tycho from PA mentioned but then never said anything about again
[10:29pm] Crezth: yup
[10:29pm] SymphonyD: I think Tycho "respects" readers too much.
[10:30pm] SymphonyD: He assumes they'll make connections.
[10:30pm] Crezth: Tycho's writing is like a fucking tesseract
[10:30pm] Crezth: folds and folds and folds
[10:30pm] SymphonyD: Which is why SMG is superior. He doesn't give a fuck. He'll be obtuse one minute and then turn around and spell it all out the next.
[10:30pm] Luckymoose: what is SMG
[10:30pm] azale: supermechagodzilla
[10:30pm] Crezth: a goon
[10:30pm] Luckymoose: and why do you people talk about it all the time
[10:30pm] SymphonyD: God is in the Topic.
[10:31pm] Luckymoose: anyone that paid to join a forum can't be god
[10:31pm] SymphonyD: WHAT DOES GOD NEED WITH A STARSHIP???
[10:31pm] SymphonyD: So, here's a question.
[10:31pm] SymphonyD: Fried catfish;
[10:31pm] SymphonyD: The breading.
[10:32pm] SymphonyD: Why the fuck is that not used for more things?
[10:32pm] azale: poptarts
[10:32pm] SymphonyD: Like, chicken?
[10:32pm] azale: you can use pancake batter
[10:32pm] SymphonyD: Because it's delicious.
[10:32pm] azale: for like
[10:32pm] azale: everything
[10:32pm] azale: true facts
[10:32pm] SymphonyD: Like I should be able to roll into KFC and ask for catfish fried chicken.
[10:32pm] Luckymoose: breading for fried catfish
[10:33pm] Luckymoose: is just corn meal
[10:33pm] azale: yea
[10:33pm] SymphonyD: And it's fucking awesome!
[10:33pm] SymphonyD: Our shitty culture LOVES corn.
[10:33pm] Luckymoose: it is used for lots of stuff
[10:33pm] Luckymoose: most people use flour for chicken though