5-methyl-MDA analytical results and user reports

Just for posterity, this shit's going on pastebin. Please believe it's for real. I wouldn't be wasting my time immortalizing it if it wasn't. I'm mcgee, the guy who posted this back in 2011. Good looord, how time flies... This is about 5-Me-MDA when it first became available on the RC scene (sorry about the dead NMR & reagent reaction image links, I posted them in the wrong places. I still have them, or the NMR's at least, but they're on an encrypted TrueCrypt ['member that?] hidden container that I still have, I could repost them, but I'm not sure it's that important anymore). If someone makes a stink about this stuff on bluelight, and I see it, I'll decrypt the container and get the NMR's for you, post 'em up somewur.

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Posted (on a non-public forum): September 9th, 2011

Title: 5-methyl-MDA analytical results and user reports

    Anyone is welcome but not necessarily encouraged to post this in whole or in part anywhere they like. If it's at some place that doesn't allow talk of sources, just edit out the references to BTKG. Talk about dchem-i should be fine and dandy because they went scam long ago and aren't coming back. Fuckers!

    Very firstly, I gotta say THANKS to #1 Gnarl, #2 student, #3 Agnetha, #4 Metcalf, and #5 anyone I forgot to write here sorry I'll add you later.

    Now... the mysterious, much hyped and vaunted... the illustrious, 5-metyl-MDA.

    It's probably proper that I start by going over the estimated purity and molecular configuration of the 5-methyl-MDA that was sampled and additionally some enlightening and surprising notes about the purity and structure of the 5-methyl-MDA that some of YOU may have tried!

    But first, as quickly as I can go over it being thorough and including my own little comments, a history of 5-methyl-MDA as best I know it.

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    SCIENTIFIC SHIT: I read about 5-methyl-MDA many years ago in the Rhodium archives. The synthesis detailed there is long and complicated. There are some comments about it's rumored psychedelic and entactogenic activity in man and estimated potency. Years later, there's a wikipedia article about it which says it should be active at about 5x the potency of MDA, putting the dose around 20 mg's orally.

    SCENE SHIT: So the first vendor that was rumored to have it was Buythekg.com, afaik, talking it up in 2010. They took way long to actually produce it after revealing that it was available by custom synthesis. Apparently they could not get 3-methylpiperonal in significant enough quantities in China (where the lab that was producing it was presumably) reportedly because this precursor is banned or tighly regulated in China as a ozone depleting chemical. BTKG eventually dropped the project in 2011 after spending probably a lot of money and time on it. They did produce a small batch (I'm guessing it was their pilot batch) and sent out some samples to some lucky fucks. One of these was notorious asshat, Ethrem [aka magicalkat777] who wasted no time in posting a glowing report on bluelight that created a frenzy in people wanting this shit inside their brain. Ethrem claimed it was an awesome high at about 20 mg orally (or was it more? I never actually seeked it out to read it because I hate Ethrem who was usually talking out his ass so why read what's been written by someone like that?), basically saying it has the effects of MDA but maybe it was even better. Granted that sounds purdy damn awesome.

    Sooo meanwhile, before BTKG dropped the project, a shitty vendor that used to vend out of the UK called Designerchem.co.uk moved to Portugal and made a new site called designerchem-i.com, their new international site that they started hyping their site months before it was even open. The site sucked and they were offering all kinds of rare chems I was pretty sure they couldn't get in the quantities or prices they were talking about. That gut feeling that guides me away from scams pretty well does me right once again I later discover! But tons weren't so lucky. People sent them all kinds of pre-order funds even with their poorly working site and terrible communication and wanting all kinds of privacy invading unneccessary personal details required for an account. One of the chems they offered for pre-order was 5-methyl-MDA and at a fair price. They posted NMR and LC-MS results for it on their US site, designerchem-usa.com as they closed it down and moved all their offers to their international site. These analytical results they posted were from what I'll call China source #1 which was NOT buythekg. What they posted were not independent analytical results. I also learned this was the first batch that China source #1 produced.
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    NMR analysis:

    Batch 1 from China source 1
    This is the batch that went to dchem-i, which everyone who got it and dosed it apparently thought was bunk and/or not work exploring because doses had to be like 50 mg to 100 mg for it to work. I think some of that disappointment and discontinuation with building the dose higher was foolish and likely based off the way overenthusiastic review of btkg's 5-me-MDA supposedly dosed by Ethrem. Anyway this is the NMR of the batch dchem-i got from the Chinese source #1. Their LC-MS results show 99%+ if it matters... anyway, H-NMR:

    hxxp://www.imgjoe.com/x/nmrchinasour.png

    COMMENTS FROM A CHEMIST
    From reviewing all the spectra it looks like the peaks 5MethylMDA is supposed to produce are:

    A doublet at 1.2 ppm for the three hydrogens at the end of the isopropylamine side chain (position 3)
    A singlet at 2.2 ppm for the methyl group at the ring 5-position
    A doublet (or doublet of doublets, depending on solvent) at 2.7 ppm (or 2.7 and 2.8 ppm) for the two hydrogens next to the benzene ring on the isopropylamine side chain (position 1)
    A hextet (or triplet of quartets) at 3.5 ppm for the single hydrogen in the middle of the isopropylamine side chain (position 2)
    A singlet at 6.0 ppm for the two hydrogens in the methylenedioxy group
    Two singlets at about 6.5 ppm for the ring hydrogens at positions 2 and 6
    A broad peak which appears around 8-8.5 ppm in non-protic NMR solvents for the amine group – but I have no idea where this should actually come.

    The first NMR (dchem material) shows extremely large peaks in the aromatic region compared with those in the rest of the spectrum. The integration for this region is 17.346 and only 6.462 for the entire rest of the spectrum, meaning that the amount of hydrogen for this “impurity” is about three times whatever is in the rest of the sample. But it looks like a giant triplet. And there is another very big singlet at 2.5 ppm which is not integrated, maybe a methyl group on the same impurity. I would have to look into it further to be sure, but I would guess that these peaks are caused by toluene or deuterotoluene used to prepare or conduct the NMR analysis. The pair of peaks at 6.5 and 6.7 could be the ring hydrogens for positions 2 and 6, and their integration matches the methylenedioxy peak around 6.0 ppm, but then comparing these integration values to that for the singlet at 3.5 ppm would require six hydrogens to produce that peak, which suggests that it must also be due to solvent or impurity. The one-hydrogen hump at 3.4 ppm could be for the isopropylamine hydrogen at position 2, just poorly resolved. The peak(s) at 2.0-3.0 are where the two hydrogens at the isopropylamine 1-position should be, except that it's integration (0.327) is exactly the same as for the previous peak caused by one hydrogen, so this explanation fits poorly. The little peaks at 2.7 and 2.3 ppm, straddling the massive solvent peak at 2.5 ppm, are called side-band peaks, and are there only because that solvent peak is so big. The singlet at 2.1 is where the 5-methyl should come, and the doublet at 1.1 comes where the terminal methyl on the isopropylamine side chain would put it.

    Overall, after the embarrassing solvent peaks are overlooked, the spectrum is mostly consistent with the 5-MethylMDA structure, and there is no strong indication that it is not produced by 5-MethylMDA. The problems with the integration are probably due to noise in the low sample peak signals, which is due to the high solvent peak signals.
    That was the batch that was distributed by dchem-i before they stopped sending orders out all together! There is the problem of lots of user complaints of them sending bunk chemicals, not just 5-me-MDA, and their 5-methyl-MDA being active only at 100 mg+ doses. However there is proof that dchem-i did at least send the real product they evidently actually did get from China source #1. That proof is an independently performed NMR analysis (from somebody in Australia) on the 5-methyl-MDA that dchem-i sent to one user, and the chemist who produced this NMR reportedly says it shows the results that 5-methyl-MDA should show. Here's that H-NMR:

    dchem's 5-me-MDA / Batch #1 from China source #1
    hxxp://www.imgjoe.com/x/nmrchinaapa.png

    COMMENTS FROM A CHEMIST
    The second spectrum shows an extremely clean example of the above-mentioned peaks with excellent integration values. The peaks are randomly shifted slightly compared to the first NMR spectrum because this one was conducted in deuterium oxide (giving the large peak at 4.65 ppm) while the first was apparently in a non-polar solvent. Since only the salt will dissolve in water, and only the base in the non-polar solvent, the charge on the nitrogen is completely different, and this causes electrons to be shifted around from the influence of this charge. Assuming the second spectrum was not fabricated, it shows an NMR consistent with extremely pure, concentrated 5-MethylMDA as the salt in solution.
    Batch #2 from China source #1
    Then here is a NMR from the same Chinese lab, but this is on batch #2, synth performed by a different chemist. HPLC performed by this lab showed 99.04% purity.

    hxxp://www.imgjoe.com/x/nmrchinakzk.png

    COMMENTS FROM A CHEMIST
    The third spectrum is in DMSO, which is a polar, non-protic solvent capable of dissolving the salt or base form. So the hump at 8.0 ppm which the integration suggests has three hydrogens may actually be the NH3 of a salt form. The peaks at 6.5 and 6.7 look like the ring hydrogens (2 and 6) and the methylenedioxy comes at 6 ppm with nice integration. The big peak at 3.3 ppm seems to be the NMR solvent, and it is burying the peak for the hydrogen at position two of the isopropylamine side chain. This same peak appears in the first spectrum and makes me think that that NMR was also run in DMSO-d6 with some contaminant producing the large peaks in the aromatic region. The next two peaks, for the two hydrogens at the 1-position of the isopropylamine side chain, could come at 2.9 and 2.6 ppm as they seem to here, but there seems to also be a singlet in the middle of the peak at 2.6 ppm, probably a contaminating solvent. It looks like the analyst tried to conceal this discrepancy by integrating only part of the peak at 2.6 ppm to make it appear to be caused by a single hydrogen like it should be. The singlet at 2.1 ppm and doublet at 1.1 nicely match the expected peaks for the 5-methyl and isopropylamine terminal methyl groups. Overall, this NMR is consistent with what pure or mostly pure 5-MethylMDA would be expected to produce.
    Batch #1 from China source #2
    ..and lastly we have a second Chinese lab that put out a small pilot batch of 5-methyl-MDA. The HPLC results from China source #2 indicates this batch is >99.8% pure. I have a gram of this batch and I sampled the other lab's batch #2. They are not the same batch. We will have experience reports from some users on this batch within a couple months tops. Here is Chinese lab #2's NMR:

    hxxp://www.imgjoe.com/x/nmrchinaxix.png

    COMMENTS FROM A CHEMIST
    The fourth spectrum also seems consistent with the 5-MethylMDA structure. I guessed that it was run in deuteromethanol before seeing the title, so the peaks at 4.7 and 3.3 ppm are probably due to that. The complex peak at 3.4 ppm for the hydrogen at position 2 of the isopropylamine side chain is resolved nicely, as are the doublet of doublets for the two at positon 1 at 2.7 and 2.8 ppm. The impurity peaks at 6.8 ppm, 6.0 ppm, 4.0 ppm and especially 1.1 ppm make me doubt that this is 99.8% pure unless these are solvent peaks. Maybe more like 90-95% pure.
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    REAGENT TESTS

    Marquis: orange
    Mecke: dark green
    Simons: no reaction

    China source 1, batch 2
    Marquis and mecke respectively
    hxxp://72dpi.cc/?di=C9SI

    China source 2, batch 1
    Marquis, Mecke and Simon's reagents respectively
    hxxp://72dpi.cc/?di=UZIG

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    OK that's it. Now user reports. Here are report summaries from the several users who have tried batch #2 from Chinese source #1...

    These are from myself, Gnarl, Metcalf and friends of each of ours who tried it. Dose estimates are accurate within at least 10 milligrams.

    ~50 mg orally, dissolved in beer, after getting a little drunk. Effects: gentle euphoria, tracers for the next few hours, and a change in feeling that is hard to explain. Sedation.
    ~75 mg snorted after getting fairly drunk on beer: User says it's very much like MDMA after 20 minutes, and he's got lot of MDMA experience, one of his favorite drugs. Euphoria is good. He sees tracers following movement. He's laying back on a couch, playing video games, having fun. The more intentse parts of his trip drops off after about an hour and a half. As far as he's concerned, he's no longer high after that. ;\
    4 users, doses after drinking 1-3 beers: 50 mg intranasal (snorted up the nose), 50 mg intransal, 75 mg intranasal and 100 mg intranasal, respectively. Everyone agreed that they had generally the same experience.

    Snorting it caused burning/irritation sensation in the nose for about 10 minutes. The effects were light euphoria (not overwhelming), sedation (not stimulation, surprisingly) - everyone was basically laying down or laying back on a couch after they dosed, minor visual enhancement and changes (such as tracers) within 20 minutes, increased talkitiveness, maybe some empathy but nothing like MDMA produces, and it lasted 2-3 hours (possibly slightly longer, time was not really tracked) for each of us. Definitely no crash, just gentle tapering off.

    Basically everyone that tried it (the 4 people) said it's interesting but a mild experience at these doses and not that interesting when there are other drugs to do. Maybe it is different with higher doses. We'll have to see!
    Quote Originally Posted by Metcalf
    dosed 75mg orally

    It started in about 30 mins and proceeded to have about an hour long come up. It was overwhelming and almost dysphoric. I felt as if I had to do something (perhaps vomit?) but I couldn't. When it finally peaked it turned into a nice gentle, mostly serotogenic plateau. It was not edgy, and not relentlessly euphoric. It was enjoyable in its own way. I did a small amount of nitrous and was launched into a fantasy world. I lay down for 30 mins or so and just closed my eyes. I played out complex and vivid brain dreams that were totally encompassing. I would truly forget where I was and become involved in these stories. After this I rejoined a small BBQ that my friends were having. The plateua lasted for several hours and diminished gently. I had no crash whatsoever, and sleep was very easy, although the brain dreams persisted whenever I closed my eyes up until I went to sleep. I would characterize the experience as mildly positive. It was not MDMA or an MDMA replacement, but it was definitely fun in it's own right. If I do it again I will take it by myself or with one other person and mainly enjoy the dreams.
    That's it. As can pretty plainly be seen, we've just started exploring 5-methyl-MDA. I think it has potential but it's no MDA substitute at these doses.

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TL;DR = 5-Methyl-MDA's not a that great of a drug (at least at 100mg and under) in humans, at least compared to MDA and MDMA.