Elick vs Embrace

Elick vs Embrace

R1 Embrace
- Jin sees in slow motion, "10s of ms". Visually fast. Makes and takes body-ish sized concrete craters. Practices Taekwondo, can attack at range through "airbending", capable of copying techniques.
- Daewi is visually fast, can do fighting game combos. Body-ish sized concrete craters, similar to Jin. Same with durability. Knows karate and grappling, and has waterbending.
- Ilpyo is visually fast. Scales to Jin for offense and defense. Can predict moves and grapple, and has "airbending".

R2 Embrace
- Embrace's team is fast. Elick's team is all slow. Carolina is only fast with a simple jab barrage.
- Ming is taken out by offense comparable to Embrace's team. Meta's durability is scaling to a tackle, not a punch, and the walls in said tackle are thin. Carolina has been downed by falling and being slammed into walls.
- Meta and Carolina lack the offense to really hurt Embrace's team. Ming Hua can break rocks, but her arms are huge. Her piercing is decent, but Embrace's team all has scaling to super piercing along with nanomachines that heal them.
- Embrace's team is skilled/predictive, Meta is a bruiser and Carolina is only somewhat skilled. Ming has a large windup on her attacks.
- Embrace's team has canonical synergy.

R3 Elick
- Meta shatters some pretty giant concrete slabs, flips Warthogs. Meta's durability scales to Texas, who can punch through bulkheads. Meta gets pierced but doesn't care. He also has invisibility and a nuke-proof bubble shield.
- Ming is super mobile and can break boulders. She has projectiles, drills, so on. Durable enough to take a boulder breaking on her and get back up soon after.
- Carolina can punch through walls and take similar hits. She can catch rockets and run at highway speeds. She can also turn invisible and has a bubble shield.

R4 Elick
- Embrace's speed is fake. RvB guys can bounce off of/catch missiles and Ming can dodge blasts from someone who moves at high speeds.
- The offense on Embrace's team all relies on Jin scaling (not correct) and Jin uses heavy amounts of momentum to achieve his craters. Meta kicks military vehicles through the air, Ming can break the sides of buildings, and Carolina can punch through walls.
- Karate/taekwondo/taekkyon mostly rely on techniques that are ineffective against Embrace's team. Punches, kicks, grappling against people without arms. So on.
- Carolina can use Church to make plans around weaknesses in milliseconds. Meta's invisibility lets him get one free punch in, which one shots.

R5 Embrace
- GOH characters are consistently able to act in a frame. Jin can move his head to dodge in 24 ms. Elick's team does not do this consistently.
- RvB missiles are sub-10 m/s. Meta punches in 100 ms and doesn't dodge. Carolina is only fast after a charge up, GOH characters move into counters in a frame or so. Ming's dodges are against slow projectiles over long distances.
- GOH characters all bust concrete or immediately scale to people who do. Meta will never land a hit. Ming's building damage is unclear.
- GOH characters have adaptive skill and Daewi in particular can reverse punches.
- The Church scan is from later than stipped. Meta and Carolina never go invisible in combat.

R6 Elick
- Meta dodges stuff when he needs to and is generally very brutal in the way he fights.
- Carolina is stipped to always be going speed mode.
- Meta has used invisibility to get hits in before.
- All of RvB is about these people knowing each other so presumably they are capable of working synergistically.

R7 Embrace
- Elick's team is slow. Even if the missiles are 33.5 m/s, Embrace's team is still faster.
- Meta is visually slow and dodges infrequently.
- Carolina only fights "skilled" when she's slow.
- Ming does little damage to the environment and is susceptible to Daewi's waterbending.
- Daewi's Vermillion Bird disorients opponents and scales to breaking concrete.
- Meta repeatedly does not use invisibility in combat. The invisibility is also easily noticed.
- Elick's team does not have experience working together.

R8 Embrace
- Embrace's team are all visual fast and scale to all able to break concrete.
- Elick's team is repeatedly hurt by lesser impacts.
- Embrace's team has greater skill and synergy.

R9 Elick
- Quantifiably fast.
- Texas' scaling is legit, the comment is just poetic. Texas can burst through metal.
- Ming is fast and agile, and is capable of breaking boulders and ripping apart metals.
- Meta's invisibility antifeats are out of context. Embrace's team has no feats for fighting invisible characters.
- RvB characters work together to achieve goals.

R10 Elick
- Meta goes invisible.
- Elick hits harder and better.
- Quantifiably fast.

=============

Elick wins.

I don't buy that Elick's team has a speed advantage. "Quantifiably fast" isn't real, it's all based on visual speed from a different game made in the future. Visual speed that, mind, doesn't exist. This argument isn't even particularly consistent, because Elick concedes one of Embrace's speed feats being fast based on its... visual speed.

I also don't really buy that invisibility will be a major factor. A factor? Sure, maybe. But even if Meta uses his invisibility (which I can maybe see), the invisibility does kind of suck. One of the few scans of the cloak being used shows a character standing across the room noticing the shimmer Embrace pointed out. It's not that good.

Lastly, I don't know if Carolina's speed will be a major factor either. I can buy Carolina's antifeats as being explained through lacking power (which the stips address), but it doesn't seem that great either way. As Embrace pointed out, Carolina doesn't seem as strong or skilled when using their speed. I read this as more of a harassment tactic than anything.

As far as skill goes, I don't have any strong opinions on it. I didn't come away from either side thinking that skill would be a major factor. "Knows karate" doesn't tell me much of anything, and the actual feats for both parties seemed to just be that they have not-terrible choreography. I do think it's relevant that Embrace repeatedly argued that RvB is relatively unskilled, but then conceded that Carolina "exhibits a variety of striking and grappling techniques" in the OOT request.

I think the ultimate decider in this fight is just strength and durability. Embrace's team is definitely faster, but they're weaker by far. Jin's cratering kick obviously requires heavy amounts of windup and, if I'm not wrong, also seems to specifically be the move that amplifies his damage.

Even ignoring that, however, literally none of the feats presented are remotely as good as Meta and Carolina's feats on their own, much less with scaling to Texas. Ming does lack offensive strength, but her boulder feat is good enough to injure Embrace's team and conversely her durability seems too high to be put down.

Basically, I think GOH is faster, more mobile, and has greater utility in their powers. But Elick's team is just... a brick. Nothing Embrace has shown can really hurt them, and the "skill" isn't good enough to make up for this.