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Brock_Stones

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-crafting-memorial-lest-we-forget/79281

Brock_Stones
Dec 5th, 2023 (edited)
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  1. **FAQ (Frequently asserted quibbles by the vocal minority)**
  2.  
  3. **New Player Experience**
  4.  
  5. Now imagine the first-time experience for someone brand new jumping in right now. The road is so far compared to the time investment of a year to even catch up to their level of inventory of players who joined from the start. Seasoned players already paid for game. FS want "new" players more to buy the game and recommend to others. At least make crafting flexible for sake of where the money is.
  6.  
  7. **Skill vs Time vs Luck**
  8.  
  9. Crafting weapons has nothing to do with skill. It is completely time based. It is not locked progression behind difficulty. You could easily run T3 missions, and someone runs T5 and collect the same type of resources without gating, just more resources at higher difficulty. So, no skill factor, just time.
  10.  
  11. Being "lucky" is really defined as success on one occasion. Roll a D20 and hope for 20, you got it! But rolled 50 times. That's not luck. You simply played more, so of course eventually you get what you want. So can't use "lucky" at all when it comes to this game.
  12.  
  13. Time is not reasonable. It takes somewhere between 20-40 T5 missions to accumulate enough resources from experience to gain a “decent” outcome of playing the crafting game. You really didn't get any satisfaction because it was not challenging, you simply rolled more.
  14.  
  15. Progression is meant to go forward, but it puts you two steps backwards based on a dice roll outside of your own control.
  16.  
  17. Losing a mission can be fun because it is challenge to your skill and to surpass. Nobody says it is really fun mechanic to lose something out of your own control.
  18.  
  19. **Reasonable Time**
  20.  
  21. If they made it so 1 mission gets you enough resources to get one ideal weapon, too easy. 100 missions too much. It sits around 30. Some may say 20 or 40. We are talking weeks of in game time for one ideal weapon between 20 to 40 T5 missions. The tuning is bit wrong there in time frame.
  22.  
  23. **Ideal weapon**
  24.  
  25. "What is the big deal. That extra 5% damage won't change anything."
  26.  
  27. Slam that Crusher twice and it's got 5% health left. A bit more is enough to turn 3 attacks instead into 2 given good hit chance stat.
  28.  
  29. Ideal doesn't mean 380. Depending on weapons 360 won't make a difference, some weapons 370 does make difference. You see at least blessings are fixed elements of T1 to T4. Now instead of rolling a D20 dice you are rolling a D380 dice and hope to get 370-380. Blessings and Perks are the easy part. The initial insanity is that getting that good stat and face the strong prospect to get Perks and T4 will most likely fail and turn that weapon into a brick.
  30.  
  31. Breakpoints matter. Defined as number of hits given good hit chance for crit to down a certain enemy on average.
  32.  
  33. **T5 missions are easy though.**
  34.  
  35. True. You can complete T5 missions with grey weapons.
  36.  
  37. You are playing the same old maps to the point you have memorised the spawn points. What makes a game replayable?
  38.  
  39. "Diversity" - You will be playing the same maps. But this allows you to change your playstyle of "How" you play those maps to alleviate repetition and fun of different results.
  40.  
  41. You play with different builds and you're not hunting for meta you're looking for change and something new to bring out different results.
  42.  
  43. It then opens you up to realising that certain skill nodes compliment weapons with certain blessings to enhance to YOUR playstyle.
  44.  
  45. You can't change the maps, but there builds allow "creative" thinking to make the game more replayable. You can either play Anno games and know exact meta blueprints for optimised production output or you can play Planet Coaster or Planet Zoo and allow creative thinking to keep you coming back for more.
  46.  
  47. We're not looking to make the game easier - Just allow us to change the way we play in "reasonable" time (See above) to make it more engaging in the build mechanic part of the game and see the effects in missions.
  48.  
  49. **Crafting UI**
  50.  
  51. Ever used Microsoft Outlook application. Now imagine if something like that for inventory.
  52.  
  53. You should be able to filter/hide by certain weapon stats, weapon type, blessings, perks anything. Even an archive to hide away clutter.
  54.  
  55. "Not a big deal" - OK fine let’s say you like to doom scroll like instagram.
  56.  
  57. Let’s say you have million resources and you're thinking now I can get the ideal weapon I want quickly.
  58.  
  59. Wrong. There is 2nd part of crafting which is pure admin task.
  60.  
  61. Enjoy running 180 between Armory and Crafting station to buy/sell constantly. Do you enjoy running up and down the stairs at home.
  62.  
  63. No bulk action commands. One by one clicking UI buttons sequential commands like mobile UI.
  64.  
  65. It is 1-2 hours given enough resources as 2nd step to crafting. Time you would rather spend playing missions. Time you would rather spend putting together build. Not staring at UI buttons.
  66.  
  67. * Mass buy until 370-380 weapon obtained.
  68. * Craft and most likely fail.
  69. * Mass buy until few 370-380 to save you running back and forth.
  70. * Re-roll
  71.  
  72. We are turned into human macro scripts.
  73.  
  74. **Mods**
  75.  
  76. "We got mods" to fix crafting. Some mods can do filter, bulk actions, automate.
  77.  
  78. Imagine a game mechanic so good we are looking for a mod to minimise the interaction with it. Means it isn't a good mechanic.
  79.  
  80. Best "UI" improvement would be to make everything into same UI without having to move your character. Is walking/running around part of immersion in the game.
  81.  
  82. Mods can break per game update and then having to play trial and error to test which mod is problem. Then you lose use of that mod until modder updates it.
  83.  
  84. Xbox users - No mods. Means they're cut out from QOL. So makes sense to natively include common mods in the game.
  85.  
  86. All they have to do is take the mods from nexusmods, ask permission, credit and reward modder, integrate. Work is already done.
  87.  
  88. **So why didn't they remove RNG entirely?**
  89.  
  90. Creates engagement. Same way I want my garden clean I must do something I don't like which is cutting the grass to be happy with the result. Time involved, no skill, no challenge.
  91.  
  92. **What have they said?**
  93.  
  94. They historically requested OP of this thread about stats to create reinforcement to present internally about RNG change.
  95.  
  96. They are going to "minimise" RNG but unfortunately not remove completely.
  97.  
  98. A poll of over 600 responses does indicate dislike of crafting in majority of forum users.
  99.  
  100. Arguments arise that forum users do not represent opinion global player base. True but they're not going to get every single player opinion so really that's all they got to work with. Steam, Reddit plenty of similar opinions. Nobody says they want more RNG in crafting, so obviously it isn't a good thing.
  101.  
  102. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/ive-hit-my-limit/79279
  103. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/i-want-to-play-this-game-but/79420
  104. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-do-you-keep-playing/78223
  105. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/make-locked-perks-blessings-upgradable/78768
  106. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/working-on-the-next-patch-like/79450
  107. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/let-us-upgrade-our-locked-blessings/79423/2
  108. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/respect-for-player-time-crafting/76334
  109. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/let-us-earn-blessing-re-bless-curios/76851
  110. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/brunts-premium-armoury/76815
  111. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/inventory-managment/76949
  112. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/fatshark-you-need-to-remove-the-locks/77820
  113. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/about-craftin-again/78572
  114. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/shop-item-randomization/79512
  115. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/future-of-darktide/79570
  116. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-please-please-remove-the-crafting-locks/79649
  117. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/fatshark-please-rethink-the-weapon-lock-change/82181
  118. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/let-us-upgrade-the-locked-parts-with-dia/82186
  119. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/rng-based-shop-crafts/88666?u=brosgw
  120. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/pathetic-crafting-item-acquisition/88629?u=brosgw
  121. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-makes-me-not-care-about-the-new-weapons-patch/88635?u=brosgw
  122. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/how-much-money-have-you-wasted-on-brunt-varlets/88639?u=brosgw
  123. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/give-us-reds/88457?u=brosgw
  124. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/fatshark-the-weapon-shop-and-economy-is-in-dire-need-of-changes/86751?u=brosgw
  125. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/i-really-have-no-idea-what-fatshark-is-playing-at-with-this-crafting-system/86975?u=brosgw
  126. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-is-the-main-thing-that-will-probably-get-me-to-quit-again/86268?u=brosgw
  127. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/get-rid-of-the-locks-positive-review/86051?u=brosgw
  128. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/breakthelocks-again/83332?u=brosgw
  129. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/one-really-has-to-wonder/85872?u=brosgw
  130. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/loot-crafting-and-mission-objective-issues/85900?u=brosgw
  131. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-new-gear-is-so-anoying/85850?u=brosgw
  132. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/new-player-crafting-perspective/85762?u=brosgw
  133. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-is-still-bad-fatshark/84188?u=brosgw
  134. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-crafting-is-too-much-like-gambling/84664?u=brosgw
  135. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/loot-crafting-is-soul-draining/85013?u=brosgw
  136. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/thank-you-for-releasing-new-weapons-without-fixing-crafting/88838?u=brosgw
  137. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/diamantine-overload/88880?u=brosgw
  138. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/things-that-strip-the-fun-out-of-the-game/88994?u=brosgw
  139. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/another-one-regarding-crafting/89027?u=brosgw
  140. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/rng-for-weapons-blessings-perks-is-complete-and-utter-garbage/89181?u=brosgw
  141. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-game-is-far-to-grindy/89366?u=brosgw
  142. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/congratulations-fatshark-you-did-it-you-broke-me-im-done/89752?u=brosgw
  143. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-is-the-main-thing-that-will-probably-get-me-to-quit-again/86268
  144. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/get-rid-of-the-locks-positive-review/86051
  145. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/mission-rewards-and-melks-limited-time-acqus-need-way-more-class-specific-gear/85773
  146. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/new-player-crafting-perspective/85762
  147. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-few-suggestions-to-make-the-game-better-and-less-grindy/85650
  148. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/fix-crafting-it-keeps-killing-your-game-idk-why-its-so-hard-to-understand/89792?u=brosgw
  149. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/starting-a-poll-to-disprove-the-silent-majority/89942?u=brosgw
  150. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/increase-plasteel-drops-please/89978?u=brosgw
  151. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/newcomer-experience-after-500-hours/90058?u=brosgw
  152. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-noobs-opinion-on-rewards-and-crafting-they-suck/90072?u=brosgw
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  154. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/10-volatile-plasma-guns-in-a-row-fatshark-the-crafting-in-darktide-sucks-why-do-you-let-this-drag-the-rest-of-the-game-down/90218?u=brosgw
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  164. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/do-i-have-to-level-a-new-veteran-just-to-get-flechette-blessing-crafting-sytsem-is-total-garbage/91063
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  248. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/hit-30-on-my-psyker-last-night/94647?u=brosgw
  249. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-is-the-crafting-heading-in-a-direction-that-goes-directly-against-what-we-were-told-in-the-crafting-blog-it-genuinely-is-starting-to-feel-like-were-just-being-lied-to/67498
  250. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-gear-progression-loop-is-just-horrible-as-even-with-crafting-it-relies-on-rng-store-give-us-option-to-craft-weapons-give-us-gurantee-rewards-from-missions/64418
  251. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/fatshark-the-nature-of-randomization-and-repetitive-actions-sometimes-seen-within-crafting-is-something-that-we-are-steering-to-avoid-in-the-crafting-system-within-darktide-also-fatshark-refining-is-literally-rng-on-multiple-levels/69223
  252. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/suggestion-additional-crafting-option-to-increase-item-stats-repair-or-upgrade-item/62790
  253. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/bad-rng-does-not-retain-players/75841
  254. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/use-diamantine-for-stat-swap-small-rant-about-rng/78379
  255. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-and-rng-re-worked-following-design-intent/72947
  256. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/armoury-shop-chances-a-sad-story-of-rng/68077
  257. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/rng-player-agency-and-destiny-2/67086
  258. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-rng-shop-needs-to-change/67804
  259. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/so-in-refine-item-of-crafting-we-will-be-able-to-reroll-only-one-perk-in-our-weapons-and-curios-and-rest-will-be-blocked-why-why-are-you-trying-to-make-that-game-so-rng-grindy-why-vermintide-2-did-it-so-much-better/67247
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  269. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/materials-on-item-sell/95907?u=brosgw
  270. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/fatshark-pretty-plz-remove-weapon-locks-if-you-are-gone-rework-the-itemization-soon-enyway/95979?u=brosgw
  271. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-rework-when/96707?u=brosgw
  272. https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/but-why/97225?u=brosgw
Tags: Darktide breakthelocks
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