Mobius on MSN: Thread Disagreement

[08:41] Mobius: I disagree with your thread
[08:41] Mobius: I won't go to the same exact lengths you did, but I do disagree with the premise.
[08:41] Mobius: Though I do agree about the staff being incompetent.
[08:41] Mobius: but for the exact opposite reasons you gave.
[08:41] IcyMew: I see.
[08:41] IcyMew: I just want the staff to respond.
[08:42] IcyMew: If someone would respond i'd put it to rest.
[08:42] Mobius: I also want to point out
[08:42] Mobius: that you're about 100 percent wrong on Strangle/Razgriz
[08:42] IcyMew: Ok.
[08:42] Mobius: He doesn't put down people into the ground
[08:42] Mobius: that's me
[08:43] IcyMew: Well if you intend to put me down into the ground it's a means to an end.
[08:43] IcyMew: For me.
[08:43] IcyMew: I just want answers in the end.
[08:43] Mobius: I am not here for that
[08:43] Mobius: I am IMing you to tell you directly that I disagree.
[08:43] Mobius: and I would usually tell you why you're wrong
[08:43] Mobius: but I am purged for no reason
[08:44] IcyMew: Also that is not up to you to speak in Razgriz's place.
[08:44] IcyMew: That's up to him to prove to me that I am wrong.
[08:44] IcyMew: And he will not.
[08:44] Mobius: I am doing so because I know him more than a lot of people do.
[08:44] IcyMew: I will accept no less.
[08:44] Mobius: and he's too stupid to argue facts like I could.
[08:44] Mobius: (or too lazy)
[08:44] Mobius: and Stipsi lied to you
[08:45] IcyMew: So you're telling me that people being assholes to other players like that is okay?
[08:45] IcyMew: In the end that's what it boils down to.
[08:45] IcyMew: Mobius.
[08:45] Mobius: I can't speak for Decay's elitist ass because he isn't even that good
[08:46] Mobius: He can stay in Odamex.
[08:46] IcyMew: For me it's not about being right so much as challenging other's points of view and forcing them to produce tangible reasoning for their points.
[08:46] IcyMew: I just want to know why
[08:46] IcyMew: And if it can be changed.
[08:46] Mobius: Changed? Maybe.
[08:46] IcyMew: Personal attacks are not effective because I can just throw them aside.
[08:46] IcyMew: That said.
[08:46] IcyMew: I want to know
[08:46] IcyMew: How you see things
[08:46] IcyMew: Regarding the tolerance of abuse
[08:46] IcyMew: Versus the rules.
[08:47] Mobius: Considering I've known some of these assholes for like 2 years off the forums, and have dealt with the more nastier personalities when I started.
[08:47] Mobius: I've learned to play better
[08:47] Mobius: and why is playing better a factor?
[08:47] Mobius: because in the end
[08:47] Mobius: if I beat Decay in D5M7 twice in a row
[08:47] Mobius: 50 to 20something
[08:47] Mobius: He can't tell me shit
[08:47] Mobius: and I'd rub it in his face if he did
[08:48] Mobius: (because that's exactly what happened)
[08:48] Mobius: Same for any of those assholes you ran into
[08:48] IcyMew: I don't feel like I should have to stand and fight the community over being clearly abused by other players nor should I have to answer for my personal life.
[08:48] Mobius: but you're going to have to, and you're fighting now
[08:48] IcyMew: I don't feel like I should be questioned or attacked over a clear cut scenario like this as if to I did something wrong
[08:48] Mobius: You're just fighting via text.
[08:48] IcyMew: I accept that.
[08:48] IcyMew: And I'm committed.
[08:48] IcyMew: Until Cyber answers me
[08:49] IcyMew: Or someone with authority.
[08:49] IcyMew: This fight will not end.
[08:49] IcyMew: Being called a dot.
[08:49] Mobius: I'm going to be frank
[08:49] IcyMew: By Goliath stoked my flames.
[08:49] IcyMew: And renewed my vigor.
[08:49] Mobius: Since I've been on the internet
[08:49] Mobius: I've fought a lot of battles
[08:49] Mobius: especially with authority
[08:49] Mobius: As long as you even exist on a forum
[08:49] Mobius: You're going to conflict with someone
[08:49] IcyMew: They will either ban me or they will answer me.
[08:50] IcyMew: I understand conflict.
[08:50] IcyMew: But when rights that are outlined.
[08:50] IcyMew: Are not protected
[08:50] IcyMew: With consistency
[08:50] IcyMew: Or without bias.
[08:50] IcyMew: Justice is not served.
[08:50] IcyMew: And I will point it out.
[08:50] IcyMew: As an undeniable truth here.
[08:50] IcyMew: None have refuted it yet
[08:50] IcyMew: Relying instead
[08:50] IcyMew: On secondary or tertiary arguments
[08:50] IcyMew: To attempt to sidestep the main point
[08:51] IcyMew: I will not be shaken.
[08:51] Mobius: That's fine.
[08:51] Mobius: but you have to understand to some degree
[08:51] Mobius: You knew exactly what you were getting yourself into
[08:51] IcyMew: I did.
[08:51] Mobius: by being on the ST forums
[08:51] IcyMew: But at the same time.
[08:51] IcyMew: When there are rules.
[08:51] IcyMew: That are not enforced.
[08:51] Mobius: So what?
[08:51] IcyMew: That is a problem.
[08:51] IcyMew: Either use the rules or abolish them.
[08:51] Mobius: There's no rules saying I can't make an appreciation thread
[08:51] Mobius: and I got purged
[08:51] Mobius: without warning
[08:52] IcyMew: I'm quite aware.
[08:52] Mobius: in the TOS
[08:52] Mobius: it says in English
[08:52] IcyMew: But I do not speak for you, only you do.
[08:52] Mobius: the staff can do what it wants
[08:52] Mobius: when it wants.
[08:52] Mobius: They can ban you right now
[08:52] IcyMew: You know you have a point, can you give me the thread for that?
[08:52] IcyMew: I'm going to use that.
[08:52] IcyMew: Against them.
[08:52] Mobius: it's there when you register
[08:52] Mobius: Read the terms of agreement when you register to any forum
[08:52] IcyMew: I haven't registered since 2007
[08:52] Mobius: They ususally state that
[08:53] IcyMew: And I skim most of them.
[08:53] IcyMew: To look for anything new or unusual.
[08:53] IcyMew: So
[08:53] IcyMew: In otherw ords
[08:53] IcyMew: The rules are null in the face of any given circumstance?
[08:53] Mobius: Of course
[08:53] IcyMew: The rules are guidelines that are not always followed?
[08:53] Mobius: Exactly
[08:53] IcyMew: Abuse can go unpunished for any reason or none at all?
[08:53] Mobius: Yes.
[08:53] IcyMew: Are you seeing the incredible ridiculousness of this?
[08:54] Mobius: Welcome to 2006
[08:54] IcyMew: Why even bother having rules?
[08:54] Mobius: Simple
[08:54] Mobius: It's ethical
[08:54] Mobius: You have rules to establish order
[08:54] IcyMew: It's deceit.
[08:54] Mobius: so other people know what to follow and what you are expecting
[08:54] IcyMew: Either follow them blindly to the letter.
[08:54] IcyMew: Leaving room for interpretation within reason.
[08:54] Mobius: I have more admin experience than most of those guys in ST's staff.
[08:54] IcyMew: Or abandon them.
[08:54] Mobius: and i can tell you right now
[08:55] IcyMew: Justice. Is. Blind.
[08:55] IcyMew: There IS no justice here.
[08:55] Mobius: You're being a drama queen
[08:55] Mobius: You have two options in this situation (assuming Cyber does nothing)
[08:55] Mobius: You can either leave the community (wise idea to be honest)
[08:55] Mobius: or fight
[08:55] Mobius: and end up like myself
[08:55] IcyMew: I will do neither if this drags on.
[08:55] IcyMew: If no one responds.
[08:55] IcyMew: I will recognize the inability
[08:55] Mobius: or submit like a docile puppy
[08:55] IcyMew: Of the staff to
[08:56] IcyMew: Protect the rights of players.
[08:56] IcyMew: Something I should have seen
[08:56] IcyMew: Long ago.
[08:56] Mobius: They aren't even players themselves
[08:56] IcyMew: You're right.
[08:56] IcyMew: I concede that, although I never argued it I feel like I should admonish myself to that.
[08:56] IcyMew: Because deep inside
[08:56] IcyMew: I assumed they saw things as I did.
[08:56] IcyMew: They clearly see it
[08:56] IcyMew: With an impersonal
[08:56] IcyMew: Wretchedly afar glare.
[08:57] IcyMew: Without heart.
[08:57] Mobius: You're talking about a staff that has this rule where they have to all be present to discuss things
[08:57] Mobius: yet
[08:57] Mobius: all in different timezones
[08:57] IcyMew: That is utterly preposterous.
[08:57] Mobius: but on a whim they can individually do things anyway without discussion
[08:57] IcyMew: There is no contingency plan in place.
[08:57] IcyMew: It's double standards at it's finest for one.
[08:57] IcyMew: Secondly it's just absolutely silly.
[08:57] Mobius: It's set up for bureaucracy
[08:57] IcyMew: Quite.
[08:58] Mobius: Cyber is the only one in that staff you can really trust.. and maybe Goliath/Gry
[08:58] Mobius: but Goliath and Gry always fight for my rights
[08:58] Mobius: so
[08:58] Mobius: I can't say whether or not they are reliable
[08:58] IcyMew: I only trust James anymore.
[08:58] IcyMew: Stipsi has failed me.
[08:58] Mobius: I don't trust James.
[08:59] IcyMew: He's never stabbed me in the back
[08:59] IcyMew: As much as  have heard
[08:59] Mobius: I trust he'll look into my situation, but I don't trust him as an admin
[08:59] Mobius: I've had personal experience with PRO
[08:59] IcyMew: Hm.
[08:59] Mobius: PRO vs A3
[08:59] Mobius: Shows what kind of character James is
[08:59] IcyMew: I've heard and seen much of the uglyness.
[08:59] IcyMew: While I can not see all I see much.
[08:59] Mobius: It was pretty ugly
[08:59] IcyMew: Quite.
[09:00] Mobius: Cyber has abused his own power in that rivalry
[09:00] IcyMew: The whole mauler situation was silly.
[09:00] IcyMew: Very.
[09:00] Mobius: but still
[09:00] Mobius: Decay conceded to you
[09:00] IcyMew: That means little to me.
[09:00] Mobius: Why?
[09:00] IcyMew: While it warms my heart to know he cares.
[09:00] IcyMew: It accomplishes nothing.
[09:00] Mobius: He doesn't care.
[09:00] Mobius: but it's a victory
[09:00] IcyMew: He cared enough to back out.
[09:01] IcyMew: I don't savor victories
[09:01] Mobius: He backed out because he was wrong.
[09:01] IcyMew: Or even count them.
[09:01] IcyMew: You must care to see you are wrong.
[09:01] IcyMew: If you care not
[09:01] IcyMew: Then the thought will not even be channeled to the situation
[09:01] IcyMew: And wrongfullness cannot be seen.
[09:01] IcyMew: I use the word care loosely.
[09:01] Mobius: I think I meant care as in not caring about you but about himself and his public image
[09:01] IcyMew: Yes.
[09:01] IcyMew: Likewise.
[09:01] IcyMew: I am aware he cares nothing for me.
[09:01] IcyMew: And holds me with disdain.
[09:02] IcyMew: I am aware that you do as well.
[09:02] IcyMew: Or at least
[09:02] IcyMew: I would assume so.
[09:02] IcyMew: For my own safety.
[09:02] IcyMew: I assume that all are my enemies.
[09:02] IcyMew: Because usually that is the case.
[09:02] Mobius: I don't hold you with disdain
[09:02] IcyMew: I will be frank.
[09:03] IcyMew: I like you, but I don't expect you to have any feeling beyond neutrality.
[09:03] Mobius: if I held you with disdain I would not have made any effort to establish a relation with you
[09:03] IcyMew: I like you because you are reasonable.
[09:03] IcyMew: Because you are respectful.
[09:03] IcyMew: And because you are honest.
[09:05] IcyMew: I feel like people are attacking things that don't matter rather than the bottom line at hand. How is it okay for people to jump into a thread in a public forum like that and for it to go unmoderated and eventually unpunished?
[09:05] IcyMew: That is what matters to me.
[09:05] IcyMew: I just need to know
[09:05] IcyMew: Will the rules be enforced or should I return to not posting as I had been?
[09:05] IcyMew: I am considering the latter because
[09:05] IcyMew: The former will never happen it seems.
[09:06] IcyMew: They would rather fight me tooth and nail than do what is right.
[09:06] IcyMew: Typical.
[09:07] IcyMew: In any case I appreciate your direct response.
[09:07] IcyMew: That's more than most people would do.
[09:07] IcyMew: o/
[09:07] Mobius: \o
[09:07] Mobius: Though
[09:07] Mobius: You put yourself in this situation
[09:07] Mobius: not to this extent
[09:08] IcyMew: I did by posting on the forums and thinking that I would actually get a positive response.
[09:08] IcyMew: Then by fighting it through the proper channels.
[09:08] IcyMew: And finally by taking it all the way.
[09:08] IcyMew: Of course I did.
[09:08] IcyMew: I blame no one else but me for being here
[09:08] IcyMew: But I condemn those who would do such things.
[09:08] IcyMew: The trolls.
[09:09] IcyMew: And the staff for their inability to control this in their own forums.
[09:11] Mobius: So what are you going to do after this?
[09:12] IcyMew: Well. I've said what I needed to say the only thing left is to refute all petty arguments until it's locked or abyssed or untiil a response happens, if nothing happens very soon I will merely abandon the thread as no one has undermined my main point.
[09:12] IcyMew: I will probably keep to myself as usual.
[09:12] IcyMew: The community has no place for me.
[09:12] IcyMew: As I have far removed myself from it.
[09:13] IcyMew: This is just the final nail in the coffin.
[09:13] IcyMew: I am not sad.
[09:13] IcyMew: I am just crestfallen.
[09:13] IcyMew: Then again
[09:13] IcyMew: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
[09:13] IcyMew: I will collect what few acquaintences I have left if any.
[09:13] IcyMew: And exist in the duel servers and occasionally in priv.
[09:13] IcyMew: I will go about my business.
[09:13] IcyMew: And mind my own.
[09:13] IcyMew: As the pariah finally realized.
[09:16] Mobius: What contacts, if any, are you going to keep?
[09:16] IcyMew: I am not sure as of yet. Only those who would support me I must be blunt to say.
[09:16] Mobius: I don't want to be blacklisted because of a community I dislike decides to do something stupid
[09:16] IcyMew: I am not so unreasonable.
[09:17] IcyMew: I blacklist on a need-to basis.
[09:17] IcyMew: Only because of what
[09:17] IcyMew: That person does specifically.
[09:17] Mobius: Good to know
[09:17] Mobius: I'll hold you to that
[09:18] IcyMew: And that you should. Always hold those around you to their words.
[09:18] IcyMew: As I said I spare no one from my scrutiny.
[09:18] IcyMew: And I drop the hammer on even those closest to me.
[09:18] IcyMew: As a matter of fact I believe I have driven a lot of friends away due to it. But I cannot accept their treachery nor will I tolerate their abuse towards me.
[09:18] IcyMew: I will not be used any longer.
[09:18] IcyMew: I have been a victim of my own good will.
[09:19] IcyMew: Mobius I want to be frank with you.
[09:19] IcyMew: Can I truly trust you?
[09:20] IcyMew: There are none that I find I can anymore.
[09:20] IcyMew: I have seen what you have wrought before in the past.
[09:20] IcyMew: And as such I am clearly hesitant to bestow a solid measure of trust upon any.
[09:20] IcyMew: Not only hesistant.
[09:20] IcyMew: Outright chained from it.
[09:21] IcyMew: Come to think of it
[09:21] IcyMew: I've already bestowed it upon you by telling you these things.
[09:21] IcyMew: So I suppose I should be asking
[09:21] IcyMew: Are my choices truly wise?
[09:22] IcyMew: Preposterous to ask a self biased source by nature, I suppose again  should rephrase...can I hold you to resist your self bias to look out for the best interests of others?
[09:22] IcyMew: I often find myself doing this and paying for it in the end.
[09:22] IcyMew: Okay I'm going wildly off topic and making this far more personal than need be.
[09:22] IcyMew: :|
[09:22] IcyMew: I'm just gonna shut up now till you say something.
[09:23] Mobius: I was waiting for you to finish
[09:24] Mobius: Less is more.
[09:25] IcyMew: Indeed
[09:26] Mobius: Whether I can be trusted or not is up to you
[09:26] Mobius: I'm a very unpredictable character to a lot of people
[09:26] Mobius: some don't understand half of what I say
[09:26] Mobius: let alone do.
[09:26] Mobius: Can you truly trust me though? I don't know.
[09:27] Mobius: I can ask the same thing
[09:27] Mobius: can I trust you?
[09:27] IcyMew: I would be foolish to say that I would never betray someone as I clearly reciprocated such betrayal upon Alan.
[09:27] IcyMew: I suppose to say that I would be confortable to tell you that.
[09:29] IcyMew: I know what it's like to be treated like dirt and if someone leaves me burnt, then to that person I will unleash a form of hurt. However seeing as how we communicate quite well I find such a scenario nearly impossible.
[09:29] IcyMew: I am not one to abandon those that I have concern or care for.
[09:29] IcyMew: That said I am free to answer questions of character and of mind.
[09:32] Mobius: Hmm
[09:32] Mobius: Why did you do what you did to Alan>?
[09:36] IcyMew: I...well. I can tell you that it was due to betrayal.
[09:37] Mobius: For telling me things
[09:38] Mobius: ?
[09:40] IcyMew: Unfortunately I can not lie.
[09:40] IcyMew: It was that entirely.
[09:40] IcyMew: And so I set out to inflict the same feelings that I felt.
[09:40] IcyMew: Tenfold.
[09:40] IcyMew: It was wrong.
[09:40] IcyMew: Very wrong.
[09:40] IcyMew: And I apologized to him.
[09:40] IcyMew: And we came to an understanding.
[09:41] IcyMew: I believe he will be fine.
[09:41] IcyMew: <:
[09:43] Mobius: Well
[09:43] Mobius: In a way
[09:44] Mobius: There was no reason for that
[09:44] Mobius: You are aware he holds me in high regard
[09:44] Mobius: as a friend
[09:44] Mobius: I was bound to know
[09:44] Mobius: but he made me promise not to tell anyone else
[09:44] Mobius: Which I didn't
[09:44] Mobius: until you pulled your stunt
[09:45] Mobius: Now I could have been a better friend
[09:45] Mobius: and warned him
[09:45] Mobius: but I didn't
[09:45] Mobius: because it was hilarious
[09:45] Mobius: but seeing him down for like 4 days
[09:45] Mobius: got to me
[09:45] Mobius: and I am tired of seeing him bummed up
[09:45] Mobius: Which is why I made this
[09:45] Mobius: http://www.altdeath.com/fluxbb/viewtopic.php?pid=3760#p3760
[09:46] IcyMew: But he had taken me in confidence over all that we had said. And in turn meant to reciprocate the secrecy of all words between us.
[09:46] IcyMew: In violating that I acted.
[09:50] Mobius: That I understand
[09:50] Mobius: but doing that
[09:50] Mobius: was a little overkill
[09:51] IcyMew: Agreed.
[09:51] IcyMew: And I recognize that.
[09:52] Mobius: but what did you do
[09:53] Mobius: to fix it
[09:53] Mobius: ?
[09:53] IcyMew: I have apologized vigorously.
[09:53] IcyMew: And submitted myself to his will through interrogation.
[09:55] Mobius: You should have went under the desk
[09:55] Mobius: and not let him pull out when he was finished
[09:55] Mobius: just keep it in there
[09:57] IcyMew: Lmfao.
[10:03] IcyMew: thanks mobius.
[10:03] IcyMew: I smiled...
[10:04] IcyMew: You have a way about you.
[10:04] IcyMew: That I appreciate.
[10:04] IcyMew: I would say that I connect to your sense of humor.
[10:04] IcyMew: And I mean that with my heart.
[10:06] Mobius: I surely hope so
[10:06] IcyMew: I tell grandvoid
[10:07] IcyMew: Every day how much you make me smile when we talk.
[10:07] IcyMew: :)
[10:07] Mobius: Haha
[10:12] IcyMew: Mobius may I use your words of wisdom on the thread? I would like to pastebin this as a final note as well as grandvoid.
[10:12] IcyMew: I ask your permission.
[10:12] Mobius: Sure.
[10:13] IcyMew: I appreciate it.
[10:13] IcyMew: Thanks for clearing a lot of things up.
[10:13] IcyMew: I want to believe that raz is different but I have no idea what drives his brash attitude towards me.
[10:14] IcyMew: I wish he would just sit down and clear things up but eh
[10:14] IcyMew: That is not in my control
[10:15] IcyMew: Pastebin time! :D
[10:16] IcyMew: o/ Any last words for the camera?
[10:16] Mobius: Strangle is brash
[10:17] Mobius: Not really
[10:17] Mobius: I don't like anyone in Grandvoid
[10:17] Mobius: you can paste that too