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Mobius on MSN: Thread Disagreement

IcyMew Mar 28th, 2012 (edited) 108 Never
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  1. [08:41] Mobius: I disagree with your thread
  2. [08:41] Mobius: I won't go to the same exact lengths you did, but I do disagree with the premise.
  3. [08:41] Mobius: Though I do agree about the staff being incompetent.
  4. [08:41] Mobius: but for the exact opposite reasons you gave.
  5. [08:41] IcyMew: I see.
  6. [08:41] IcyMew: I just want the staff to respond.
  7. [08:42] IcyMew: If someone would respond i'd put it to rest.
  8. [08:42] Mobius: I also want to point out
  9. [08:42] Mobius: that you're about 100 percent wrong on Strangle/Razgriz
  10. [08:42] IcyMew: Ok.
  11. [08:42] Mobius: He doesn't put down people into the ground
  12. [08:42] Mobius: that's me
  13. [08:43] IcyMew: Well if you intend to put me down into the ground it's a means to an end.
  14. [08:43] IcyMew: For me.
  15. [08:43] IcyMew: I just want answers in the end.
  16. [08:43] Mobius: I am not here for that
  17. [08:43] Mobius: I am IMing you to tell you directly that I disagree.
  18. [08:43] Mobius: and I would usually tell you why you're wrong
  19. [08:43] Mobius: but I am purged for no reason
  20. [08:44] IcyMew: Also that is not up to you to speak in Razgriz's place.
  21. [08:44] IcyMew: That's up to him to prove to me that I am wrong.
  22. [08:44] IcyMew: And he will not.
  23. [08:44] Mobius: I am doing so because I know him more than a lot of people do.
  24. [08:44] IcyMew: I will accept no less.
  25. [08:44] Mobius: and he's too stupid to argue facts like I could.
  26. [08:44] Mobius: (or too lazy)
  27. [08:44] Mobius: and Stipsi lied to you
  28. [08:45] IcyMew: So you're telling me that people being assholes to other players like that is okay?
  29. [08:45] IcyMew: In the end that's what it boils down to.
  30. [08:45] IcyMew: Mobius.
  31. [08:45] Mobius: I can't speak for Decay's elitist ass because he isn't even that good
  32. [08:46] Mobius: He can stay in Odamex.
  33. [08:46] IcyMew: For me it's not about being right so much as challenging other's points of view and forcing them to produce tangible reasoning for their points.
  34. [08:46] IcyMew: I just want to know why
  35. [08:46] IcyMew: And if it can be changed.
  36. [08:46] Mobius: Changed? Maybe.
  37. [08:46] IcyMew: Personal attacks are not effective because I can just throw them aside.
  38. [08:46] IcyMew: That said.
  39. [08:46] IcyMew: I want to know
  40. [08:46] IcyMew: How you see things
  41. [08:46] IcyMew: Regarding the tolerance of abuse
  42. [08:46] IcyMew: Versus the rules.
  43. [08:47] Mobius: Considering I've known some of these assholes for like 2 years off the forums, and have dealt with the more nastier personalities when I started.
  44. [08:47] Mobius: I've learned to play better
  45. [08:47] Mobius: and why is playing better a factor?
  46. [08:47] Mobius: because in the end
  47. [08:47] Mobius: if I beat Decay in D5M7 twice in a row
  48. [08:47] Mobius: 50 to 20something
  49. [08:47] Mobius: He can't tell me shit
  50. [08:47] Mobius: and I'd rub it in his face if he did
  51. [08:48] Mobius: (because that's exactly what happened)
  52. [08:48] Mobius: Same for any of those assholes you ran into
  53. [08:48] IcyMew: I don't feel like I should have to stand and fight the community over being clearly abused by other players nor should I have to answer for my personal life.
  54. [08:48] Mobius: but you're going to have to, and you're fighting now
  55. [08:48] IcyMew: I don't feel like I should be questioned or attacked over a clear cut scenario like this as if to I did something wrong
  56. [08:48] Mobius: You're just fighting via text.
  57. [08:48] IcyMew: I accept that.
  58. [08:48] IcyMew: And I'm committed.
  59. [08:48] IcyMew: Until Cyber answers me
  60. [08:49] IcyMew: Or someone with authority.
  61. [08:49] IcyMew: This fight will not end.
  62. [08:49] IcyMew: Being called a dot.
  63. [08:49] Mobius: I'm going to be frank
  64. [08:49] IcyMew: By Goliath stoked my flames.
  65. [08:49] IcyMew: And renewed my vigor.
  66. [08:49] Mobius: Since I've been on the internet
  67. [08:49] Mobius: I've fought a lot of battles
  68. [08:49] Mobius: especially with authority
  69. [08:49] Mobius: As long as you even exist on a forum
  70. [08:49] Mobius: You're going to conflict with someone
  71. [08:49] IcyMew: They will either ban me or they will answer me.
  72. [08:50] IcyMew: I understand conflict.
  73. [08:50] IcyMew: But when rights that are outlined.
  74. [08:50] IcyMew: Are not protected
  75. [08:50] IcyMew: With consistency
  76. [08:50] IcyMew: Or without bias.
  77. [08:50] IcyMew: Justice is not served.
  78. [08:50] IcyMew: And I will point it out.
  79. [08:50] IcyMew: As an undeniable truth here.
  80. [08:50] IcyMew: None have refuted it yet
  81. [08:50] IcyMew: Relying instead
  82. [08:50] IcyMew: On secondary or tertiary arguments
  83. [08:50] IcyMew: To attempt to sidestep the main point
  84. [08:51] IcyMew: I will not be shaken.
  85. [08:51] Mobius: That's fine.
  86. [08:51] Mobius: but you have to understand to some degree
  87. [08:51] Mobius: You knew exactly what you were getting yourself into
  88. [08:51] IcyMew: I did.
  89. [08:51] Mobius: by being on the ST forums
  90. [08:51] IcyMew: But at the same time.
  91. [08:51] IcyMew: When there are rules.
  92. [08:51] IcyMew: That are not enforced.
  93. [08:51] Mobius: So what?
  94. [08:51] IcyMew: That is a problem.
  95. [08:51] IcyMew: Either use the rules or abolish them.
  96. [08:51] Mobius: There's no rules saying I can't make an appreciation thread
  97. [08:51] Mobius: and I got purged
  98. [08:51] Mobius: without warning
  99. [08:52] IcyMew: I'm quite aware.
  100. [08:52] Mobius: in the TOS
  101. [08:52] Mobius: it says in English
  102. [08:52] IcyMew: But I do not speak for you, only you do.
  103. [08:52] Mobius: the staff can do what it wants
  104. [08:52] Mobius: when it wants.
  105. [08:52] Mobius: They can ban you right now
  106. [08:52] IcyMew: You know you have a point, can you give me the thread for that?
  107. [08:52] IcyMew: I'm going to use that.
  108. [08:52] IcyMew: Against them.
  109. [08:52] Mobius: it's there when you register
  110. [08:52] Mobius: Read the terms of agreement when you register to any forum
  111. [08:52] IcyMew: I haven't registered since 2007
  112. [08:52] Mobius: They ususally state that
  113. [08:53] IcyMew: And I skim most of them.
  114. [08:53] IcyMew: To look for anything new or unusual.
  115. [08:53] IcyMew: So
  116. [08:53] IcyMew: In otherw ords
  117. [08:53] IcyMew: The rules are null in the face of any given circumstance?
  118. [08:53] Mobius: Of course
  119. [08:53] IcyMew: The rules are guidelines that are not always followed?
  120. [08:53] Mobius: Exactly
  121. [08:53] IcyMew: Abuse can go unpunished for any reason or none at all?
  122. [08:53] Mobius: Yes.
  123. [08:53] IcyMew: Are you seeing the incredible ridiculousness of this?
  124. [08:54] Mobius: Welcome to 2006
  125. [08:54] IcyMew: Why even bother having rules?
  126. [08:54] Mobius: Simple
  127. [08:54] Mobius: It's ethical
  128. [08:54] Mobius: You have rules to establish order
  129. [08:54] IcyMew: It's deceit.
  130. [08:54] Mobius: so other people know what to follow and what you are expecting
  131. [08:54] IcyMew: Either follow them blindly to the letter.
  132. [08:54] IcyMew: Leaving room for interpretation within reason.
  133. [08:54] Mobius: I have more admin experience than most of those guys in ST's staff.
  134. [08:54] IcyMew: Or abandon them.
  135. [08:54] Mobius: and i can tell you right now
  136. [08:55] IcyMew: Justice. Is. Blind.
  137. [08:55] IcyMew: There IS no justice here.
  138. [08:55] Mobius: You're being a drama queen
  139. [08:55] Mobius: You have two options in this situation (assuming Cyber does nothing)
  140. [08:55] Mobius: You can either leave the community (wise idea to be honest)
  141. [08:55] Mobius: or fight
  142. [08:55] Mobius: and end up like myself
  143. [08:55] IcyMew: I will do neither if this drags on.
  144. [08:55] IcyMew: If no one responds.
  145. [08:55] IcyMew: I will recognize the inability
  146. [08:55] Mobius: or submit like a docile puppy
  147. [08:55] IcyMew: Of the staff to
  148. [08:56] IcyMew: Protect the rights of players.
  149. [08:56] IcyMew: Something I should have seen
  150. [08:56] IcyMew: Long ago.
  151. [08:56] Mobius: They aren't even players themselves
  152. [08:56] IcyMew: You're right.
  153. [08:56] IcyMew: I concede that, although I never argued it I feel like I should admonish myself to that.
  154. [08:56] IcyMew: Because deep inside
  155. [08:56] IcyMew: I assumed they saw things as I did.
  156. [08:56] IcyMew: They clearly see it
  157. [08:56] IcyMew: With an impersonal
  158. [08:56] IcyMew: Wretchedly afar glare.
  159. [08:57] IcyMew: Without heart.
  160. [08:57] Mobius: You're talking about a staff that has this rule where they have to all be present to discuss things
  161. [08:57] Mobius: yet
  162. [08:57] Mobius: all in different timezones
  163. [08:57] IcyMew: That is utterly preposterous.
  164. [08:57] Mobius: but on a whim they can individually do things anyway without discussion
  165. [08:57] IcyMew: There is no contingency plan in place.
  166. [08:57] IcyMew: It's double standards at it's finest for one.
  167. [08:57] IcyMew: Secondly it's just absolutely silly.
  168. [08:57] Mobius: It's set up for bureaucracy
  169. [08:57] IcyMew: Quite.
  170. [08:58] Mobius: Cyber is the only one in that staff you can really trust.. and maybe Goliath/Gry
  171. [08:58] Mobius: but Goliath and Gry always fight for my rights
  172. [08:58] Mobius: so
  173. [08:58] Mobius: I can't say whether or not they are reliable
  174. [08:58] IcyMew: I only trust James anymore.
  175. [08:58] IcyMew: Stipsi has failed me.
  176. [08:58] Mobius: I don't trust James.
  177. [08:59] IcyMew: He's never stabbed me in the back
  178. [08:59] IcyMew: As much as  have heard
  179. [08:59] Mobius: I trust he'll look into my situation, but I don't trust him as an admin
  180. [08:59] Mobius: I've had personal experience with PRO
  181. [08:59] IcyMew: Hm.
  182. [08:59] Mobius: PRO vs A3
  183. [08:59] Mobius: Shows what kind of character James is
  184. [08:59] IcyMew: I've heard and seen much of the uglyness.
  185. [08:59] IcyMew: While I can not see all I see much.
  186. [08:59] Mobius: It was pretty ugly
  187. [08:59] IcyMew: Quite.
  188. [09:00] Mobius: Cyber has abused his own power in that rivalry
  189. [09:00] IcyMew: The whole mauler situation was silly.
  190. [09:00] IcyMew: Very.
  191. [09:00] Mobius: but still
  192. [09:00] Mobius: Decay conceded to you
  193. [09:00] IcyMew: That means little to me.
  194. [09:00] Mobius: Why?
  195. [09:00] IcyMew: While it warms my heart to know he cares.
  196. [09:00] IcyMew: It accomplishes nothing.
  197. [09:00] Mobius: He doesn't care.
  198. [09:00] Mobius: but it's a victory
  199. [09:00] IcyMew: He cared enough to back out.
  200. [09:01] IcyMew: I don't savor victories
  201. [09:01] Mobius: He backed out because he was wrong.
  202. [09:01] IcyMew: Or even count them.
  203. [09:01] IcyMew: You must care to see you are wrong.
  204. [09:01] IcyMew: If you care not
  205. [09:01] IcyMew: Then the thought will not even be channeled to the situation
  206. [09:01] IcyMew: And wrongfullness cannot be seen.
  207. [09:01] IcyMew: I use the word care loosely.
  208. [09:01] Mobius: I think I meant care as in not caring about you but about himself and his public image
  209. [09:01] IcyMew: Yes.
  210. [09:01] IcyMew: Likewise.
  211. [09:01] IcyMew: I am aware he cares nothing for me.
  212. [09:01] IcyMew: And holds me with disdain.
  213. [09:02] IcyMew: I am aware that you do as well.
  214. [09:02] IcyMew: Or at least
  215. [09:02] IcyMew: I would assume so.
  216. [09:02] IcyMew: For my own safety.
  217. [09:02] IcyMew: I assume that all are my enemies.
  218. [09:02] IcyMew: Because usually that is the case.
  219. [09:02] Mobius: I don't hold you with disdain
  220. [09:02] IcyMew: I will be frank.
  221. [09:03] IcyMew: I like you, but I don't expect you to have any feeling beyond neutrality.
  222. [09:03] Mobius: if I held you with disdain I would not have made any effort to establish a relation with you
  223. [09:03] IcyMew: I like you because you are reasonable.
  224. [09:03] IcyMew: Because you are respectful.
  225. [09:03] IcyMew: And because you are honest.
  226. [09:05] IcyMew: I feel like people are attacking things that don't matter rather than the bottom line at hand. How is it okay for people to jump into a thread in a public forum like that and for it to go unmoderated and eventually unpunished?
  227. [09:05] IcyMew: That is what matters to me.
  228. [09:05] IcyMew: I just need to know
  229. [09:05] IcyMew: Will the rules be enforced or should I return to not posting as I had been?
  230. [09:05] IcyMew: I am considering the latter because
  231. [09:05] IcyMew: The former will never happen it seems.
  232. [09:06] IcyMew: They would rather fight me tooth and nail than do what is right.
  233. [09:06] IcyMew: Typical.
  234. [09:07] IcyMew: In any case I appreciate your direct response.
  235. [09:07] IcyMew: That's more than most people would do.
  236. [09:07] IcyMew: o/
  237. [09:07] Mobius: \o
  238. [09:07] Mobius: Though
  239. [09:07] Mobius: You put yourself in this situation
  240. [09:07] Mobius: not to this extent
  241. [09:08] IcyMew: I did by posting on the forums and thinking that I would actually get a positive response.
  242. [09:08] IcyMew: Then by fighting it through the proper channels.
  243. [09:08] IcyMew: And finally by taking it all the way.
  244. [09:08] IcyMew: Of course I did.
  245. [09:08] IcyMew: I blame no one else but me for being here
  246. [09:08] IcyMew: But I condemn those who would do such things.
  247. [09:08] IcyMew: The trolls.
  248. [09:09] IcyMew: And the staff for their inability to control this in their own forums.
  249. [09:11] Mobius: So what are you going to do after this?
  250. [09:12] IcyMew: Well. I've said what I needed to say the only thing left is to refute all petty arguments until it's locked or abyssed or untiil a response happens, if nothing happens very soon I will merely abandon the thread as no one has undermined my main point.
  251. [09:12] IcyMew: I will probably keep to myself as usual.
  252. [09:12] IcyMew: The community has no place for me.
  253. [09:12] IcyMew: As I have far removed myself from it.
  254. [09:13] IcyMew: This is just the final nail in the coffin.
  255. [09:13] IcyMew: I am not sad.
  256. [09:13] IcyMew: I am just crestfallen.
  257. [09:13] IcyMew: Then again
  258. [09:13] IcyMew: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
  259. [09:13] IcyMew: I will collect what few acquaintences I have left if any.
  260. [09:13] IcyMew: And exist in the duel servers and occasionally in priv.
  261. [09:13] IcyMew: I will go about my business.
  262. [09:13] IcyMew: And mind my own.
  263. [09:13] IcyMew: As the pariah finally realized.
  264. [09:16] Mobius: What contacts, if any, are you going to keep?
  265. [09:16] IcyMew: I am not sure as of yet. Only those who would support me I must be blunt to say.
  266. [09:16] Mobius: I don't want to be blacklisted because of a community I dislike decides to do something stupid
  267. [09:16] IcyMew: I am not so unreasonable.
  268. [09:17] IcyMew: I blacklist on a need-to basis.
  269. [09:17] IcyMew: Only because of what
  270. [09:17] IcyMew: That person does specifically.
  271. [09:17] Mobius: Good to know
  272. [09:17] Mobius: I'll hold you to that
  273. [09:18] IcyMew: And that you should. Always hold those around you to their words.
  274. [09:18] IcyMew: As I said I spare no one from my scrutiny.
  275. [09:18] IcyMew: And I drop the hammer on even those closest to me.
  276. [09:18] IcyMew: As a matter of fact I believe I have driven a lot of friends away due to it. But I cannot accept their treachery nor will I tolerate their abuse towards me.
  277. [09:18] IcyMew: I will not be used any longer.
  278. [09:18] IcyMew: I have been a victim of my own good will.
  279. [09:19] IcyMew: Mobius I want to be frank with you.
  280. [09:19] IcyMew: Can I truly trust you?
  281. [09:20] IcyMew: There are none that I find I can anymore.
  282. [09:20] IcyMew: I have seen what you have wrought before in the past.
  283. [09:20] IcyMew: And as such I am clearly hesitant to bestow a solid measure of trust upon any.
  284. [09:20] IcyMew: Not only hesistant.
  285. [09:20] IcyMew: Outright chained from it.
  286. [09:21] IcyMew: Come to think of it
  287. [09:21] IcyMew: I've already bestowed it upon you by telling you these things.
  288. [09:21] IcyMew: So I suppose I should be asking
  289. [09:21] IcyMew: Are my choices truly wise?
  290. [09:22] IcyMew: Preposterous to ask a self biased source by nature, I suppose again  should rephrase...can I hold you to resist your self bias to look out for the best interests of others?
  291. [09:22] IcyMew: I often find myself doing this and paying for it in the end.
  292. [09:22] IcyMew: Okay I'm going wildly off topic and making this far more personal than need be.
  293. [09:22] IcyMew: :|
  294. [09:22] IcyMew: I'm just gonna shut up now till you say something.
  295. [09:23] Mobius: I was waiting for you to finish
  296. [09:24] Mobius: Less is more.
  297. [09:25] IcyMew: Indeed
  298. [09:26] Mobius: Whether I can be trusted or not is up to you
  299. [09:26] Mobius: I'm a very unpredictable character to a lot of people
  300. [09:26] Mobius: some don't understand half of what I say
  301. [09:26] Mobius: let alone do.
  302. [09:26] Mobius: Can you truly trust me though? I don't know.
  303. [09:27] Mobius: I can ask the same thing
  304. [09:27] Mobius: can I trust you?
  305. [09:27] IcyMew: I would be foolish to say that I would never betray someone as I clearly reciprocated such betrayal upon Alan.
  306. [09:27] IcyMew: I suppose to say that I would be confortable to tell you that.
  307. [09:29] IcyMew: I know what it's like to be treated like dirt and if someone leaves me burnt, then to that person I will unleash a form of hurt. However seeing as how we communicate quite well I find such a scenario nearly impossible.
  308. [09:29] IcyMew: I am not one to abandon those that I have concern or care for.
  309. [09:29] IcyMew: That said I am free to answer questions of character and of mind.
  310. [09:32] Mobius: Hmm
  311. [09:32] Mobius: Why did you do what you did to Alan>?
  312. [09:36] IcyMew: I...well. I can tell you that it was due to betrayal.
  313. [09:37] Mobius: For telling me things
  314. [09:38] Mobius: ?
  315. [09:40] IcyMew: Unfortunately I can not lie.
  316. [09:40] IcyMew: It was that entirely.
  317. [09:40] IcyMew: And so I set out to inflict the same feelings that I felt.
  318. [09:40] IcyMew: Tenfold.
  319. [09:40] IcyMew: It was wrong.
  320. [09:40] IcyMew: Very wrong.
  321. [09:40] IcyMew: And I apologized to him.
  322. [09:40] IcyMew: And we came to an understanding.
  323. [09:41] IcyMew: I believe he will be fine.
  324. [09:41] IcyMew: <:
  325. [09:43] Mobius: Well
  326. [09:43] Mobius: In a way
  327. [09:44] Mobius: There was no reason for that
  328. [09:44] Mobius: You are aware he holds me in high regard
  329. [09:44] Mobius: as a friend
  330. [09:44] Mobius: I was bound to know
  331. [09:44] Mobius: but he made me promise not to tell anyone else
  332. [09:44] Mobius: Which I didn't
  333. [09:44] Mobius: until you pulled your stunt
  334. [09:45] Mobius: Now I could have been a better friend
  335. [09:45] Mobius: and warned him
  336. [09:45] Mobius: but I didn't
  337. [09:45] Mobius: because it was hilarious
  338. [09:45] Mobius: but seeing him down for like 4 days
  339. [09:45] Mobius: got to me
  340. [09:45] Mobius: and I am tired of seeing him bummed up
  341. [09:45] Mobius: Which is why I made this
  342. [09:45] Mobius: http://www.altdeath.com/fluxbb/viewtopic.php?pid=3760#p3760
  343. [09:46] IcyMew: But he had taken me in confidence over all that we had said. And in turn meant to reciprocate the secrecy of all words between us.
  344. [09:46] IcyMew: In violating that I acted.
  345. [09:50] Mobius: That I understand
  346. [09:50] Mobius: but doing that
  347. [09:50] Mobius: was a little overkill
  348. [09:51] IcyMew: Agreed.
  349. [09:51] IcyMew: And I recognize that.
  350. [09:52] Mobius: but what did you do
  351. [09:53] Mobius: to fix it
  352. [09:53] Mobius: ?
  353. [09:53] IcyMew: I have apologized vigorously.
  354. [09:53] IcyMew: And submitted myself to his will through interrogation.
  355. [09:55] Mobius: You should have went under the desk
  356. [09:55] Mobius: and not let him pull out when he was finished
  357. [09:55] Mobius: just keep it in there
  358. [09:57] IcyMew: Lmfao.
  359. [10:03] IcyMew: thanks mobius.
  360. [10:03] IcyMew: I smiled...
  361. [10:04] IcyMew: You have a way about you.
  362. [10:04] IcyMew: That I appreciate.
  363. [10:04] IcyMew: I would say that I connect to your sense of humor.
  364. [10:04] IcyMew: And I mean that with my heart.
  365. [10:06] Mobius: I surely hope so
  366. [10:06] IcyMew: I tell grandvoid
  367. [10:07] IcyMew: Every day how much you make me smile when we talk.
  368. [10:07] IcyMew: :)
  369. [10:07] Mobius: Haha
  370. [10:12] IcyMew: Mobius may I use your words of wisdom on the thread? I would like to pastebin this as a final note as well as grandvoid.
  371. [10:12] IcyMew: I ask your permission.
  372. [10:12] Mobius: Sure.
  373. [10:13] IcyMew: I appreciate it.
  374. [10:13] IcyMew: Thanks for clearing a lot of things up.
  375. [10:13] IcyMew: I want to believe that raz is different but I have no idea what drives his brash attitude towards me.
  376. [10:14] IcyMew: I wish he would just sit down and clear things up but eh
  377. [10:14] IcyMew: That is not in my control
  378. [10:15] IcyMew: Pastebin time! :D
  379. [10:16] IcyMew: o/ Any last words for the camera?
  380. [10:16] Mobius: Strangle is brash
  381. [10:17] Mobius: Not really
  382. [10:17] Mobius: I don't like anyone in Grandvoid
  383. [10:17] Mobius: you can paste that too
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