Trump Supporters and Parenting

10:25:13 AM+LowInformationVoterTrump says he wants "his people" to sit at attention like the North Koreans do for Kim Jong-Un.
10:25:25 AM+LowInformationVoterEvery American who supports Trump, 100%, are enemies of the American republic.
10:25:49 AM+LowInformationVoterThe people in North Korea behave that way because they'll be murdered if they do not.
10:25:56 AM+LowInformationVoterAnd the president doesn't have any people in America.
10:26:01 AM@xsnlxstill a minority
10:26:11 AMDJT4NobelPeacePrizewere takin the country back
10:26:14 AM Ignoring DJT4NobelPeacePrize!*@*
10:26:18 AM+LowInformationVoterDJT4NobelPeacePrize: I put you on ignore.
10:26:40 AM@xsnlxbring it
10:26:41 AM+Rc911rLowInformationVoter: good times
10:26:48 AM Ignoring Rc911r!*@*
10:26:51 AM+LowInformationVoterRc911r: I put you on ignore.
10:27:17 AM+LowInformationVoterThat the GOP will largely ignore this comment of the president is amazing.
10:27:21 AM+LowInformationVoterThey have no bottom.
10:28:22 AM* commie laughs.
10:28:30 AM+commieLike there's nothing to disagree with?
10:28:42 AM+LowInformationVoterEvery member of the GOP that doesn't condemn this comment of Trump and call for immediate removal from office is an enemy of the American republic.
10:29:52 AM+LowInformationVoterIf you want people to sit at attention like they do in North Korea, you have to murder people.
10:29:56 AM+LowInformationVoterThat's the only way.
10:30:19 AM+LowInformationVoterAnd when you murder people, whether you have a title of thug, prime minister, or president, you make it moral for you to be murdered.
10:30:26 AM+LowInformationVoterThis is the game Donald Trump is opening for himself.
10:31:29 AM+LowInformationVoterWhen you're anti-government in the North Korea, they will capture you and your children and your parents -- three generations.
10:31:46 AM+LowInformationVoterThey then put you in camps roughly equivalent to death camps of the Holocaust.
10:31:48 AM+LowInformationVoterSays who?
10:32:03 AM+LowInformationVoterA panel of former judges from the Nuremburg Trials and Holocaust survivors.
10:32:34 AM+LowInformationVoterhttp://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.4446492/terrible-brutality-hol...
10:32:51 AM+LowInformationVoterThomas Buergenthal is one of the jurists on the panel. He compared the conditions in North Korean prisons to those in Nazi concentration camps.
10:32:51 AM+LowInformationVoter
10:32:51 AM+LowInformationVoterBuergenthal was a judge at the International Court of Justice in the Hague and a survivor of Auschwitz.
10:33:08 AM+LowInformationVoter"Well, I think the situation in the Nazi camps, like Auschwitz and others, were organized cruelty and brutality. What's happening in the Korean ones, based on the study and the report we prepared, is less organized but it appears to be random brutality — terrible brutality. "
10:33:09 AM@ProfFarnsworthWhy should facts bug anybody?
10:33:26 AM+LowInformationVoter"It's more than 100,000. If in North Korea, you have an individual who is suspected of being anti-government, the entire three generations of the family are put into these camps. "
10:34:14 AM@ProfFarnsworthOnly Nixon could go to China.
10:35:01 AM@ProfFarnsworthSuspend US-SK joint military exercise for what?
10:35:04 AM@ProfFarnsworthA hollow promise.
10:36:52 AM+commieThey do have economies.
10:38:14 AM+LowInformationVoterTrump supporters hate reason and hate evidence.
10:38:36 AM+LowInformationVoterEvery attempt by Trump supporters to provide evidence or leverage reason to justify Trump's behavior in North Korea is farce.
10:39:03 AM+LowInformationVoterIt is merely deference to the sovereign using while parasitizing the language of the Enlightenment -- the Enlightenment being their primary enemy.
10:39:23 AM+LowInformationVoterDo not be conned by these zombies.
10:39:52 AM+LowInformationVoterSay a Trump support makes an argument for Trump's success in North Korea. That would be a hypothesis in scientific epistemology.
10:40:01 AM+LowInformationVoterLater, there will be sufficient evidence to know if that hypothesis is true or false.
10:40:17 AM+LowInformationVoterSo, what is the track record of Trump and his zombies in regards to evaluating evidence?
10:40:26 AM+LowInformationVoterWell, of course, they hate it and they just assert whatever truth they desire.
10:40:48 AM+LowInformationVoterFor example, Trump asserts the IG Horowitz report found no collusion, even though it was investigating an entirely different topic.
10:40:59 AM+LowInformationVoterThis is precisely what Trump and Trump supporters will do for North Korea.
10:41:29 AM+LowInformationVoterSo, what, then, is the point of the original debating with the Trump supporter?
10:41:45 AM+LowInformationVoterJust wait for the evidence that comes later you can evaluate in private or with people have demonstrated they value reason and evidence.
10:42:28 AM+LowInformationVoterIf you'd like to discuss the issue, of course that makes sense, too.
10:42:38 AM+LowInformationVoterAgain, do so with a person who has a track record of valuing reason and evidence.
10:42:52 AM+LowInformationVoterTrump supporters are our enemies.
10:43:06 AM+LowInformationVoterThey are Nazis without the brown shirts -- yet.
10:44:14 AM+LowInformationVoterI am for the abolishment of the second Amendment.
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10:45:21 AM@ProfFarnsworthHe'll engage with people.
10:45:25 AM@ProfFarnsworthI've seen him do it.
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10:48:00 AMLowInformationVoterMost guns are owned by members of the right, and they are not using those guns or the threat of using those guns to stop the burgeoning dictatorship of Trump.
10:48:36 AMLowInformationVoterIt's not become apparent to me that those guns, in regards to tyranny, will be used in *support* of that tyranny, not to stop it.
10:48:41 AMLowInformationVoternow
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10:49:35 AMLowInformationVoterhttps://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/
10:50:06 AMLowInformationVoterIt is preposterous to think that they are divided by any racial characteristics. Germans may be more susceptible to Nazism than most people, but I doubt it. Jews are barred out, but it is an arbitrary ruling. I know lots of Jews who are born Nazis and many others who would heil Hitler tomorrow morning if given a chance. There are Jews who have repudiated their own ancestors in order to become “Honorary Aryans and Nazis”; there are full-blooded Jews who have enthusiastically entered Hitler’s secret service. Nazism has nothing to do with race and nationality. It appeals to a certain type of mind.
10:50:58 AM+azulezlol, is that a quote from someone?
10:51:11 AMLowInformationVoterIt's the wife of Sinclair Lewis.
10:51:21 AMLowInformationVoterThe first American reporter expelled from Nazi Germany for mocking Hitler.
10:51:40 AMLowInformationVoterSinclair Lewis wrote "It Can't Happen Here" about how fascism can easily occur in the United States.
10:51:52 AMLowInformationVoterIn response to the fascism of politician Huey Long.
10:52:11 AMLowInformationVoterShe has successfully anticipated the cognitive revolution on political science.
10:52:19 AMⓘ Godric set mode +v DJT4NobelPeacePrize
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10:52:25 AMLowInformationVoterPolitical views are not determined by reason, for most people -- they're determined by general cognitive traits.
10:52:33 AMⓘ Godric set mode +m #debates
10:52:37 AMLowInformationVoterYou can deduce a person's political orientation by asking them questions about their parents.
10:52:38 AM== Cannot send to channel
10:53:46 AM+azulezHe freely gave them such a wonderful propaganda reel
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11:13:10 AM+commie18:05 <+DJT4NobelPeacePrize> djt is making it impossible to know whats true and the media is eating outta his hand <+DJT4NobelPeacePrize> its perfect'
11:13:18 AM+commie`18:06 <+DJT4NobelPeacePrize> hes not a liar the media lies`
11:13:40 AM+commieDJT is "making it impossible to know what's true" and the media is forced to eating out of Trump's hand.
11:13:46 AM+commiebut Trump isn't fabricating anything.
11:14:22 AM+commieSo Trump is the source of the information, and the media is RELYING on Trump for information, but Trump is making it impossible to "know what's true..."
11:14:27 AM+commiebut he isn't lying
11:14:33 AM+commieWhat fashy bullshit is this?
11:14:38 AM+LowInformationVotercommie: Why are you playing
11:14:41 AM+commieYou're basically saying Trump is lying.
11:14:52 AM+LowInformationVoterDonald Trump supporters exist in an entirely differently epistemic system
11:14:58 AM+LowInformationVoterYou know this to be true
11:15:05 AM+commieIf the media relies on him for information but Trump is making it impossible to know what's true... then Trump is causing the issue of what is determined to be true or not...
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11:18:27 AM+commieLowInformationVoter: It's what Deleuze called the suicidal/destructive tendencies in fascism.
11:19:54 AM@xsnlxreally?  it seems to be making great progress nonetheless
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11:21:29 AM@xsnlxLIV, so what is an effective response to a culture war?
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11:23:22 AM+LowInformationVoterxsnlx: Let me think about that.
11:25:17 AM+LowInformationVoterI don't think I have resolved the best way to respond to a cultural conflict we find ourselves in
11:25:31 AM+LowInformationVoterI think it's important for people to understand the reality of the situation, the stakes
11:25:38 AM+LowInformationVoterIf Trump supporters win, there will be pogroms
11:25:48 AM+LowInformationVoterThis needs to be truly believed by liberals/progressives
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11:27:49 AM@ProfFarnsworthYeah ... but Obama willing to talk with NK was treasonous.
11:28:09 AM+LowInformationVoterI recommend that liberals/progressives be honest about what Trump supporters are doing, i.e. they are attempting to destroy the concept of truth in order to establish their faction as the originator of truth
11:28:28 AM+LowInformationVoterAnd to describe that as openly hostile to modernity, Westernism, America, rule of law, safety, and freedom
11:29:42 AM+LowInformationVoterI think the media should recognize they will be banned and killed of Trump supporters win
11:29:54 AM+LowInformationVoterI think media should be aggressive in dealing with Trump supporters/advocates
11:30:05 AM+LowInformationVoter"If you lie, even once, and it can be shown, you will be permanently banned from this channel"
11:30:27 AM+LowInformationVoter"When there is a serious allegation of lying, we will afford you an opportunity to show why it wasn't a lie. Perhaps you were just wrong."
11:30:54 AM@ProfFarnsworthbrad70: what did he get done? Abandoning Japan and South Korea, that's what.
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11:33:13 AM@ProfFarnsworthUh ... Trump started the trade war.
11:33:21 AM@xsnlxLIV, yes, the stakes are high, but that's only escalating emotions, fear, frustration on both sides...and I don't believe escalating will resolve the core conflict
11:34:22 AM+LowInformationVoterxsnlx: It is probably true that my approach has a measure of escalation. The alternative it seems, in these types of conflicts, is soothing/placating/appeasement
11:34:37 AM+LowInformationVoterI use those three words because it seems that choice can be interpreted along that entire range
11:34:37 AM@xsnlxdid he lay off the troops?  decommission the vehicles/ships?  No.  What did he save?  Gas money?
11:34:56 AM+LowInformationVoterIn some situations, it is soothing for a troubled soul, and it helps improve the situation. I believe that.
11:35:04 AM+LowInformationVoterIn some situations, it provides space for fascism to grow
11:35:09 AM@xsnlxLIV, first principles would say listening is a better approach
11:35:26 AM+LowInformationVoterThis is very close to the general parenting dilemma, with the stakes being, instead of slammed doors and mean words, global warfare
11:35:41 AM+LowInformationVoterxsnlx: Liberals have been listening to Trump supporters for years now.
11:35:42 AM@xsnlxauthentic responses to judgment-free listening
11:35:45 AM+LowInformationVoterWhat have they told us?
11:36:00 AM+LowInformationVoterI have heard that they hate facts and they hate reality
11:36:06 AM+LowInformationVoterThey're racially judgmental
11:36:10 AM@xsnlxLIV, for what it's worth, I think the Dems are at least moving in the right direction
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11:36:42 AM+LowInformationVoterThe evidence shows the two primary motivators for being a Trump supporter were racial attitudes, and then gender attitudes
11:36:42 AM@xsnlxDems are talking about grassroots issues again, not just SJW issues
11:36:50 AM+LowInformationVoterThe third reason was economic anxiety -- which is valid
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11:37:35 AM@xsnlxright, if you look at gender and racial angst, it's exacerbated by economic strife
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11:37:53 AM+LowInformationVoterWe can't just listen to Trump supporters. We've also got to speak to them and be heard
11:38:05 AM+LowInformationVoterAnd when we speak to them, they show their minds hate reason and evidence and civil discourse
11:38:20 AM+LowInformationVoterThey literally deny reality. How can we speak to such people
11:38:28 AM@xsnlxthe white nationalist's worst nightmare is making less than a black guy (or even a woman)
11:38:51 AM@xsnlxit's rubbing their face in their failed progress
11:39:14 AM@xsnlxthe "order of things"
11:39:57 AM+LowInformationVoterThe way out for them is to recognize that racial supremacy is a flawed ideology
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11:40:16 AM@xsnlxpart of the reason why racism is so virulent in the working class is because "we might be poor, but at least we ain't black"
11:40:16 AM+LowInformationVoterAnd that their Republican representatives -- and their Democratic representatives -- have chosen policies that do not benefit them
11:40:38 AM+LowInformationVoterThis is the only way out. But, instead, they chose the path of orthodoxy/fundamentalism
11:40:50 AM+LowInformationVoterTo double down on their racial supremacy ideology and their contempt for reality
11:40:59 AM+LowInformationVoterThis is the same choice made by fundamentalist Muslims
11:40:59 AM@xsnlxit's ultimately driven by social status (inside of a scarcity mindset)
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11:41:08 AM@xsnlxwb Shira
11:41:19 AM@xsnlxHedrin, I hope for life
11:41:54 AM@ProfFarnsworthWhat possible "good reason" is there for starting a trade war?
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11:42:30 AMⓘ DJT4NobelPeacePrize is now known as Donald-Trump
11:42:35 AM Ignoring Donald-Trump!*@*
11:42:57 AM@xsnlxRacists have a clear status hierarchy of races and "their place" in that hierarchy.  It's hard to feel superior to a black guy that makes more than you do, lives in a nicer house than you do, etc.
11:43:05 AM+LowInformationVoterxsnlx: It seems one model for this situation is psychiatric care/therapeutic counseling
11:43:15 AM+LowInformationVoterA broad openness to listen and express, given some constraints
11:43:26 AM+LowInformationVoterSo we can't set any fires, or kill the family cat, or horde knives in our room
11:43:27 AM@xsnlxLIV, yes, or violence intervention
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11:43:48 AM+LowInformationVoterThe constraints on Trump supporters need to be things like rule of law, evidence-based worldview, etc.
11:43:59 AM+LowInformationVoterAs that is the only legitimate way I know of to facilitate interfaith dialogues
11:44:01 AMⓘ Donald-Trump is now known as DonaldJPeterson
11:44:05 AM Ignoring DonaldJPeterson!*@*
11:44:08 AM+DonaldJPetersonDonaldJPeterson [DonaldJPeterson!uid294722@2001:67c:2f08:5::4:7f42] * DJT4NobelPeacePrize
11:44:08 AM+DonaldJPetersonChannels: +#debates
11:44:08 AM+DonaldJPetersonConnected to server: underworld.se.eu.dal.net Underworld IRC Services
11:44:08 AM+DonaldJPetersonIdle for 00:05:43, signed on 06/15/2018
11:44:27 AM+LowInformationVoterTrump supporters are currently arguing they should burn down all therapy centers
11:44:33 AM+LowInformationVoterWe cannot just respond with, I hear you
11:44:53 AM@xsnlxyes, it's tragic to see people that have worked here for 40-50 years being shoved out of the country "for the rule of law" when Trump's administration is the crookedest in over 100 years
11:44:54 AM+LowInformationVoter"I cannot allow you to burn down any therapy centers. If you do that, there will be consequences you won't like."
11:45:27 AM+LowInformationVoterxsnlx: Trump supporters are murderous psychopaths, in some important ways, using the therapy model
11:45:31 AM+LowInformationVoterWe really need to accept the stakes
11:45:43 AM+LowInformationVoterIf you mistreat this person, counselor, they might stab you in the neck, and then kill your kids
11:46:02 AM+LowInformationVoterThere's a 0% chance there aren't pogroms if Trump is able to get away with firing Mueller
11:46:12 AM+LowInformationVoterThere will be no checks on his dictatorship
11:46:20 AM+LowInformationVoterAnd his supporters either love that, or look away, at best
11:46:35 AM+LowInformationVoterWe are actually really, really close to pogroms
11:46:38 AM+LowInformationVoterI don't know if you perceive it that way
11:46:46 AM+LowInformationVoterDo you know there isn't killing going on in this concentration camps?
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11:47:09 AM+LowInformationVoterSay a report came out next week alleging systematic killing, what do you think would happen?
11:47:18 AM+LowInformationVoterDo you think the GOP would investigate that?
11:47:28 AM+LowInformationVoterThe GOP would probably call it fake news
11:47:49 AM+LowInformationVoterAnd Fox News would say it's a lie made up by Desperate Dems to remove Trump, the greatest president in history
11:48:16 AM+LowInformationVoterWe're really, really close to needing armed rebellion to get out of this
11:48:37 AM+LowInformationVoterThere's some chance of getting out of this with voting starting in Nov 2018
11:48:45 AM+LowInformationVoterAnd some chance of getting out of this via courts and Mueller, etc.
11:50:53 AM+LowInformationVoterI am a liberal/progressive. We tend to be much more flexible with our children
11:51:04 AM+LowInformationVoterI think liberals/progressives need to become very strict parents with Trump supporters
11:51:10 AM+LowInformationVoterHere are the rules. You will follow these rules.
11:51:23 AM+LowInformationVoterWe need to use all our power of philosophy and science and justice to make sure we have very good rules
11:51:26 AM+LowInformationVoterAnd that we enforce them fairly
11:51:38 AM+LowInformationVoterAnd once we do that, we need to be extremely stringent in their application