LuNaYesterday at 3:43 PM
Hey Harv, could you let me know when you're available to chat for a minute?
HarvYesterday at 7:15 PM
Hey, sure thing! I'm guessing it's the inactivity :p
LuNaYesterday at 7:37 PM
Basically.  I was just wanting to find out if there's anything that we could help you out with or if it might be better for you to end your trial and reapply when you have more time/motivation to commit to the project
HarvToday at 12:44 AM
yeah, I haven't had much time to work on TTR due to upcoming projects at work... it's been a hard few months (not something I anticipated, but was kinda just thrown at us) so I haven't had much time for TTR. it's something I really want to get back into someday and just continue doing what I used to do. I've found the trial process a little odd to be honest, since I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be learning (which is what I was told it was for) since everything seems fairly quiet
I think that might be contributing to the lack of motivation working on it too :frowning: but yeah, I've just been focused primarily on work
LuNaToday at 12:51 AM
I can definitely clarify the process if it's necessary, but we're really just looking for some more activity and tasks completed from you.  Of course, it's up to you, but if you don't see yourself having time away from work then it may be best to pick up your trial at a better time
I know it's been a bit quiet in the trials chat, but activity is still one of our big guidelines for the hiring process
HarvToday at 12:55 AM
I think it's more-so confusing since I was told that the only reason I'm going through it was to learn how the team is, but there doesn't seem to be much/any teaching happening
I'm pretty much at the same point with that knowledge as day one of being a trial
LuNaToday at 12:58 AM
It's a hard objective to measure, but I think that learning mostly comes from chatting in both code-trials and the more general chats, and asking questions.  We want to have conversations with you about what tasks you're working on, things outside of Toontown, really anything.  There's no real formal process for that kind of learning
HarvToday at 12:59 AM
from my understanding of the team setup, trial chats are a barren wasteland in comparison though :/ (and I've been observing that)
(this is based on previous experience and also what I hear)
I know it's kinda weird to bring up, but that environment doesn't really jump out as being a place to talk and get to know the team
LuNaToday at 1:03 AM
Interesting, I'm glad you brought it up.  I feel like welcomevalley normally has quite a bit of chatter and staff-hangout has events semi-regularly, but code-trials has been quiet, I agree.  All the programmers check (and some non-programmers too) code-trials though, so if a conversation starts it typically becomes active
HarvToday at 1:03 AM
right, and that's not something I'd deny (I've jumped in quite a few times too), but from the perspective of my role, it's not a great place to start to learning what's changed since I left
so I'm basically left in a position of working on a codebase which I already know, and sadly not learning the stuff that I was told I needed to learn before becoming a staff member
I think these contribute towards my focus just being purely on work, rather than the passion for TTR from before
(not to say work isn't important, it definitely takes first priority)
I hope I'm communicating this right :p
LuNaToday at 1:06 AM
(for the codebase part) We understand that you already know the codebase, but there's no way for us to understand if you have the necessary activity without you completing tasks.  It's a tough situation for us, but we need to see work from you on that regard
I'm not quite sure if I understand the work vs passion part, however
HarvToday at 1:09 AM
the passion actually links back to the codebase: I'm working on old code from 2015, which I know is barely stable because I set it up. the idea for it was for people to gain trust and have them learn the codebase. I understand that process and totally agree with it, but asked what the point was to both Daniel/Hawkheart when I was accepted for me to go through that. they stated that it was just for me to see how things have changed (in relation to the department) and what procedures to go through
actually, I think that this is the first time I've heard activity being mentioned as criteria for passing
I figured spacing stuff out in my own time would be fine since I see many others doing it, especially someone like Jeremy who I see first hand doing it
though that probably stems from ignorance on my part
LuNaToday at 1:13 AM
To my understanding, an activity requirement has been a part of the trial process from it's inception.  No disrespect whatsoever to Jeremy, he's absolutely awesome on the team, but jeremy is definitely on the less active side of the team.  I'm not sure if his activity is a great place to decide where to stand
HarvToday at 1:14 AM
I would say it's more than just Jeremy, but I know how team activity is/has been extremely flaky, since that hasn't changed since the dawn of TTR
but it's interesting that these members (including Jeremy) are allowed to stay -- it kinda implies that once I become full staff, I could go inactive no problem
so activity being a concern for a trial never really crossed my mind, if that makes sense
I hope this feedback helps at all btw
it's kinda hard to describe a lot of it, especially since I've been on both ends of the stick and I still can't portray it properly
LuNaToday at 1:19 AM
Activity guidelines are being discussed, a lot, actually, but it's an especially tricky situation with somebody like Jeremy and the TechOps department, given how small it is.
I think inactivity is something that is changing and is something that is still being worked on
HarvToday at 1:21 AM
I agree Jeremy plays a tricky part (though I disagree with him being exempt, it doesn't concern me since I know the role of techops), but that doesn't explain the inactivity that others too
which kinda brings me back to my point of it implying that I could just pass and go inactive no problem
LuNaToday at 1:22 AM
I'm not sure how accurately you can judge activity without being a part of the main server
HarvToday at 1:22 AM
(I hope I'm not sounding aggressive or offensive btw, I have a lot of respect for you and hear great things about you :smile: so I just wanna give my honest feedback from what I see)
honestly I felt most comfortable talking about this with you, so I figured I'd give it a shot
LuNaToday at 1:23 AM
I appreciate the honesty and it has been respectful entirely.
HarvToday at 1:24 AM
and I mean, it'd be a lie to say that I can't tell the inactivity of certain people who I know on a more personal level (which is definitely a lot of the veteran staff members)
I think I stand in quite a unique position, and that has pros and cons at the same time
LuNaToday at 1:25 AM
I guess my main point is, is knowing that activity is a criteria going to help you progress your trial, or is the issue rooted in team structure?
HarvToday at 1:26 AM
oh, this comes to passion/motivation that you originally asked about
I'm fine with activity being criteria for needing to pass
sorry, I should have clarified
LuNaToday at 1:27 AM
Ah okay
And do you think you could see yourself finding the passion or motivation to get over the initial hurdle of the trial phase to get to a point where you believe that you will be more passionate?
HarvToday at 1:29 AM
oh for sure, I'm just having a hard time IRL right now which has been a huge blocker for me
I'd like to stick around and work on it, because I know once I do find time, I can finish off the work very easily
I think one of the daunting feelings is not knowing "what" the process is
like, do I just finish my project and get hired? what can I really expect?
LuNaToday at 1:31 AM
That's the issue with having such a loosely-organized trial process.  If we had every programming trial work on the exact same three projects, life would get easier, but work would be less meaningful.  We're looking to see if you can and would thrive on the main team, have the time to commit to the project, and are acclimated to the working environment
HarvToday at 1:32 AM
acclimated*? :p
LuNaToday at 1:33 AM
autocorrect :p
HarvToday at 1:33 AM
I suppose what I'd really like to know to help me is, what goal am I reaching towards?
I work less well when I have no idea what I'm doing or what I'm working towards, so I think from a motivation standpoint, it'd be nice to have a goal to reach
LuNaToday at 1:36 AM
Typically, when it comes to tasks, a trial will complete two smaller tasks and one larger one.  By the time those are finished, the other goals of acclimating theirself to the team and finding the time to devote to the project are achieved just through those three projects
I'm not sure if that's exactly the answer you wanted or needed, but there's not much more of a set goal than that
HarvToday at 1:37 AM
I see I see, what constitutes to a small versus large task?
no no, that helps plenty :smile:
LuNaToday at 1:38 AM
Small versus large, is, again subjective, but some examples of larger tasks that have been done in the past: fish bingo rewrite, table games logic rewrite, basic functionality for a postcard feature, playable radios in the estate
And smaller tasks are typically bug fixes (though we're running out of those on TrialTown) and smaller features
But it's also how you make it.  The playable estate radios could have easily been a small task, but doing it right and adding functionality took it to be a larger task
HarvToday at 1:42 AM
ah, so something like unlocking SC+ would be considered a larger feature since it touches different aspects/areas of the game?
I think that's what I got from that
I think I understand -- cool!
LuNaToday at 1:43 AM
That sounds about right.  Glad I made sense :p
HarvToday at 1:43 AM
(it's 11pm, nothing I read is making sense in reality, I just pretend to know things)
:smile:
LuNaToday at 1:44 AM
(it's 2am here, so, uh, I can't even pretend I know things)
HarvToday at 1:44 AM
any whom, I think I can start working on stuff a little in my spare time, but I just ask for a little more time while I'm still focused on work (and will be until Feb, once I have my first project of the year out of the way)
is it cool if I pop in on #code-trials once I finish SC+ and ask for ideas on other things to work on?
LuNaToday at 1:45 AM
That sounds fair.  Dropping that in code-trials is perfect!  We'll be glad to see you around in the chat
HarvToday at 1:47 AM
sounds good! sorry for keeping you up :smile:
you should sleep my dude!
LuNaToday at 1:47 AM
not a problem!  I hope I cleared everything up for you, but, if not, as usual, feel free to drop a ping or DM!
HarvToday at 1:47 AM
(also thank you for listening to "gibberish by Harv" at 2am)
LuNaToday at 1:48 AM
:p talk to you soon!
HarvToday at 1:48 AM
take care ^^