12:35 AM] Lucky Lulu: Oof.
[12:36 AM] Lucky Lulu: Okay, I think that's safely in the "what I hope to accomplish with this character (that is, 'tank that can effectively negate swarms') is functionally impossible with the given suggestions" range.
[12:38 AM] Chevaleresse: well
[12:38 AM] Chevaleresse: a basic attack every time you get hit is
[12:38 AM] Chevaleresse: shall we say
[12:38 AM] Chevaleresse: fucking nuts
[12:39 AM] Lucky Lulu: I mean, I suggested reducing it to the targets of the taunt.
[12:39 AM] Lucky Lulu: Which would, in principle, still let it fulfill the basic role.
[12:40 AM] Lucky Lulu: ONE attack a round is basically pointless for what the goal for it is.
[12:40 AM] Chevaleresse: that would probably be more okay
[12:40 AM] Chevaleresse: plus like
[12:40 AM] Chevaleresse: you can just do thorns
[12:40 AM] Chevaleresse: and not do an entire attack each hit
[12:40 AM] Chevaleresse: and that'd work fine
[12:41 AM] Chevaleresse: the problem isn't concept (other than maybe expecting your character to nullify an entire enemy archetype) but scaling
[12:41 AM] Lucky Lulu: Not sure I understand.
[12:41 AM] Chevaleresse: it's not that you hit everything that hits you
[12:42 AM] Chevaleresse: its the fact that you hit for full damage each time
[12:42 AM] Chevaleresse: which could lead to like 4+ attacks in a turn fairly easily
[12:43 AM] Chevaleresse: if you just cherry tapped things it'd be less objectionable
[12:43 AM] Lucky Lulu: It also wouldn't really accomplish anything if it just cherry tapped things.  =B
[12:44 AM] Lucky Lulu: Or at least, wouldn't be a good use of a perk.
[12:44 AM] Chevaleresse: well like i said
[12:44 AM] Chevaleresse: you can't just get a full swing off before you get hit every time
[12:45 AM] Chevaleresse: and expecting your character to just delete swarms is unrealistic
[12:45 AM] Lucky Lulu: Why's that?  It seems a reasonable enough goal.
[12:46 AM] Chevaleresse: it
[12:46 AM] Chevaleresse: really isn't
[12:46 AM] Chevaleresse: you can be good at handling certain foes
[12:46 AM] Chevaleresse: you cannot be so good that they essentially don't exist with your character around
[12:47 AM] Lucky Lulu: I feel like there are several characters in this game that might refute that point a bit.  =B
[12:48 AM] Lucky Lulu: But still.  At the very LEAST, I should expect this to be outputting a fair deal more damage than a standard AoE.
[12:48 AM] Chevaleresse: it's a passive
[12:49 AM] Chevaleresse: you don't passively get multiple bonus attacks, full stop
[12:49 AM] Lucky Lulu: Yeah, that requires being attacked, and if my suggestion goes through, also requires the enemy to be under a single round status effect.
[12:49 AM] Chevaleresse: which is also a free action.
[12:49 AM] Lucky Lulu: Yes, and is a perk to get that.
[12:50 AM] Lucky Lulu: Which is ALSO getting nerfed, apparently.
[12:50 AM] Chevaleresse: you aren't giving up anything to hit a billion times per round; you're a tank, you wanted to get hit anyway
[12:50 AM] Lucky Lulu: And would probably just be better to get as a normal action taunt, thinking on it, since I don't believe those normally have cooldowns and I can just expand it easier while using a perk to get a free action in... I dunno.  Defend, maybe.
[12:51 AM] Chevaleresse: except this makes you do more DPR than a lot of dps too
[12:51 AM] Chevaleresse: and it's not even your entire kit
[12:51 AM] Lucky Lulu: It's.  The vast majority of the kit.
[12:51 AM] Chevaleresse: i don't think your expectations are reasonable
[12:51 AM] Lucky Lulu: I don't believe I have anything that activates on the player turn.
[12:52 AM] Lucky Lulu: The only other actions I DO have are one that goes off if someone's about to die, and one that explicitly keys off the passive.
[12:52 AM] Chevaleresse: the kit as-written would utterly invalidate every other tank build
[12:53 AM] Chevaleresse: except in certain boss encounters
[12:53 AM] Chevaleresse: where you might lose to 6D because she is a pox upon bosses
[12:53 AM] Lucky Lulu: Okay, so what's your actual suggestion, then?
[12:54 AM] Chevaleresse: You need to give up something
[12:54 AM] Chevaleresse: Whether it's scaling, activation penalties, etc
[12:54 AM] Chevaleresse: Uptime
[12:55 AM] Chevaleresse: Right now it has infinite uptime and excellent scaling with no cost beyond doing something you were doing anyway
[12:55 AM] Lucky Lulu: I don't see that a tank with downtime is... useful, at all.
[12:56 AM] Lucky Lulu: So probably not that unless I can clear it with a couple action levels, I guess.
[12:56 AM] Chevaleresse: you either do things less efficiently always or do them more efficiently sometines
[12:57 AM] Lucky Lulu: What if I just threw another perk on it?  I do have a spare one that I didn't have a particular idea for and a flaw I haven't picked.
[12:58 AM] Chevaleresse: to reference my sheets, both kira and tsubasa have action economy boosts, but the former gives up init she really wants and runs the risk of self-stun while the latter commits actions to get more later
[12:58 AM] Chevaleresse: you could do that, though a whole attack is still a lot of damage
[12:59 AM] Lucky Lulu: Average 30, I believe.
[12:59 AM] Chevaleresse: it's also 1am and I'm a bit intoxicated though
[12:59 AM] Chevaleresse: so
[12:59 AM] Lucky Lulu: bleh.
[12:59 AM] Chevaleresse: I'd need a bit to figure a more reasonable scale
[12:59 AM] Lucky Lulu: I'll just shelve it for now.