One_Considerate vs. DJ

Judgement - One_Considerate vs. DJ

One_Considerate Response 1

- One's team has a range advantage
 * Vader can TK large metal pieces + can chuck them at people, allowing him to weaponize the swords present in the arena
 * Yor has throwing "thorns"
 * Helen can extend her range to 90 m

- One's team has a range advantage
 * Yor can run at speeds comparable to a bullet timer
 * Helen can chuck Vader into the fray + Vader has fast reaction

- One's team has advantage in melee
 * Vader's lightsaber can cut through metal + flesh, and he is an experienced swordfighter (i.e. Alucard/Striga)
 * Helen's suit is bullet proof + she survives explosives that took out her plane so she can take Simon's (I think One means Trevor's) whip
  * She is strong enough to choke her superhuman husband
 * Yor withstands being hit by a car + can block swords with her weapons + is strong enough to stab into concrete

DJ Response 1

- DJ's team has actual teamwork since they are from the same universe + are friends (provides various examples of teamwork)
 * Yor is hard countered by Sypha's flames

- Vader is bad
 * He rarely chucks objects at foes
 * His thrown object (in one of the feats One linked) only hit foes who aren't paying attention
 * No precision feats are provided
 * Its an ineffective strategy

- Elastigirl is also bad
 * Helen isn't fast enough to hit Alucard (movement + reaction)
 * She will throw Vader poorly

- Yor is bad again
 * Yor's bullet dodging scaling isn't real/could be aim dodging

- Reiterates that One's team won't leverage teamwork as well as DJ's

- Elaborates more on how a firewall screws One's team over
 * Ditto for Sypha's electricity, with it one shotting everyone sans Vader, who it still will harm

- They also have insufficient piercing resist vs. Alucard's sword

One_Considerate Response 2

- Vader (via TK) and Helen (via walking over it) can both bypass Sypha's flame wall. Helen could help Yor over

- Vader will likely charge to take out Sypha (Just FYI One, I think the link to this feat is broken)

- If Alucard or Trevor tried to block Vader's lightsaber, they are screwed

- Yor would target weakpoints

- Helen can hurt Sypha with stretchy punches

- Sypha's electricity can be blocked by Vader's lightsaber

- Yor is agile/skilled enough to dodge/counter Alucard's blade/Trevor's whip

DJ Response 2

- Clarifies some stuff about what he meant by strategizing

- Misconceptions:
 * Alucard has as shield to block, and coupled with his skill and speed makes it very unlikely for Vader to land any solid blows
 * Sypha isn't a sitting target
 * Vader/Yor will rush in, possibly without Helen(?)
 * Alucard can counter Helen's strikes (by cutting them off) + Sypha is fast/can counter the opposing teams various attacks
 * Emphasizes what he means by DJ's team being coordinated vs. One's

 - Sypha freezes the team. They have no resistance + its often her go to

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Judgement

While both debaters did well for their (first?) tournament, I have to give then win to u/DJ10reddit. In my view he won a few significant arguments in this, that convinced me his team would win this. The key factors were:

1) DJ's team is faster. Sypha's arrow timing and Alucard's dagger timing feats are reasonably clear, objective and DJ did a decent job of presenting them. In contrast I think One could have done a better job defending Yor's speed (scaling), and the Vader speed feat linked was incredibly underwhelming

2) Sypha's various esoteric. This was a large chunk of the debate, and I came out of it largely siding with DJ. One did a good job arguing that some of his team could resist (some) of the damage (i.e. Vader can counter the electricity and fire), but didn't counter their effectiveness wholesale. To a lesser, but still significant extent the same holds true for Alucard's and Trevor's attacks

3) DJ's team will generally attack more intelligently. This was probably the 2nd most significant piece of the debate. DJ did a good job of using feats to show how effective his team was together (admittedly them being from the same series helped a lot). One's arguments seemed a lot more reactionary, and DJ did a decent job of turning most of them on their head.

While DJ won these major arguments, there were some they lost. Most prominently I walked away from this debate believing that it was perfectly capable for One's team to hurt and (if they can hit) take out the opposing team. No great counter (other than evading/skill) was provided vs. Vader's lightsaber or piercing attacks in general. One did a good enough job of convincing me that his team can evade/block these hits long enough to win, but in this area at least it wasn't a slam dunk.


A few recommendations for both debaters in the future. I would recommend to use/link a lot more feats. One of the reasons DJ won was because they used a lot more than One, but even then there was a lot of unsupported claims. I'd also recommend to establish the characters physicals a bit better, and not concede so many arguments.