OOC and PM Ark and Charmen

OOC

[20:36] *[user]Charmen[/user] puts on battle musics, yay!

[20:44] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67nFv1K5KN4]Ironically, I clicked onto this right before Charmen attacked.[/url]
[20:46] [user]Asparagumi[/user]: And then the fire nation attacked.
[20:46] *[user]Charmen[/user] gets attacked, attacks right back. He's fair like that.
[20:48] *[user]Arkaelov[/user] attacked a hologram basically. Thinks this is an overreaction, but won't say no to a fun fight. :P
[20:51] *[user]Charmen[/user] was HURT by it, so it's obviously not a hologram... hence his reaction. An aspect of himself in a spot he considered a safezone was attacked with an energy attack. It hurts and ruined some of his data.
[20:51] [user]Saret[/user]: [sub]Good.[/sub]

[21:02] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: I would be lying if Ark didn't pull the stunt [b]mainly[/b] because he could tell there was something off about Charmen. He's not too keen on demons. But he didn't [b]expect[/b] this kind of reaction :P
[21:06] [user]Asparagumi[/user]: Ark and Charmen is a more interesting fight than Mord and Gumi.
[21:07] [user]Asparagumi[/user]: Karatta when do I get to be on your profile
[21:08] [user]Karatta[/user]: Whataya mean
[21:08] *[user]Asparagumi[/user] potential rivals Karatta with a PUNCH
[21:09] *[user]Saret[/user] pets Gumi.
[21:09] *[user]Karatta[/user] doesn't think Gumi is quite leveled right to be rivals with Karatta yet
[21:09] [user]Asparagumi[/user]: I desperately need to update my relationships.
[21:09] [user]Asparagumi[/user]: You can put me on there as your total SUPER BEST BUDDY then.
[21:09] [user]Asparagumi[/user]: [sub]I'm just being silly ignore me.[/sub]
[21:10] [user]Saret[/user]: [sub]Silly Gumi is a good thing.[/sub]
[21:10] [user]Karatta[/user]: Karatta technically wouldn't know Gumi in Infinite World
[21:10] [user]Saret[/user]: *yet
[21:10] [user]Honglian[/user]: [sub]'^'[/sub]
[21:10] *[user]Arkaelov[/user] gets put on Gumi's profile as "Food Delivery Human"
[21:11] [user]Saret[/user]: Earthlings! Hoo! YEAH! What are they good for! Only food delivery!
[21:11] [user]Saret[/user]: [sub]And maybe meatshields.[/sub]
[21:11] *[user]Honglian[/user] tosses an egg in Saret's face '^'

[21:37] [user]Charmen[/user]: Ark, is this the arm by chance that unleashed the ki blast initially at him?
[21:38] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: Ark's left arm is outstretched backwards firing the blast to propel him, while his right is what is swinging in for the elbow. The first ki blast he fired at the hellfire was with both hands.
[21:39] [user]Charmen[/user]: No, the attack that started all of this.
[21:39] [user]Charmen[/user]: The initial attack.
[21:40] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: Oh. Uhhh. Probably his left, since it was a random spur of the moment thing.
[21:40] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: But honestly I have no clue. Didn't think it was relevant.
[21:40] [user]Asparagumi[/user]: The attack that started all of this.  The initial attack.  The attack for cuzco.  Cuzco's attack.
[21:40] [user]Pretty Saiyan Goku[/user] has logged out.
[21:41] *[user]Charmen[/user] loves Gumi so much for that.
[21:41] [user]Asparagumi[/user]: :3
[21:43] [user]Galen Striker[/user] has left the channel.
[21:44] [user]Charmen[/user]: It is to Charmen. He's painfully observant, especially when crossed. Reizo is "on his list" for just being verbally rude. This physical assault is... much more.
[21:44] [user]Saret[/user]: [sub]Floof the tail, Gumi![/sub]
[21:46] [user]Gently[/user]: PULL THE LEVER CRONK
[21:46] [user]Gently[/user]: WRONG LEEEVVEEERRRR
[21:47] *[user]Asparagumi[/user] floofs Saret's tail.
[21:47] *[user]Saret[/user] [sub]wiggles tail[/sub]
[21:50] *[user]Charmen[/user] needs to go stalk Reizo one of these days actually.. and still bring back Dakon...
[21:51] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: Hmm. Might need to chat this out, Charmen. Yeah the spit would connect, but would it do anything about the momentum? I still feel the attack would kinda... break his neck given the force taken at full brunt. Or at least do some serious damage.
[21:51] [user]Charmen[/user]: Carros should be here tomorrow for her SL/Event to continue.  I think the "main show" aka tournament is set for Wed & Thurs
[21:51] [user]Reizo Nakatomi[/user]: Oh seriously? Nice.
[21:52] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: [sub]Also thinks Stone Spit is a lil OP/broken, but idk on that one technically.[/sub]
[21:54] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: [sub]Knows it's temporary, but yeh.[/sub]
[21:54] [user]Honglian[/user]: [sub]A move that ignores durability and pretty much disables on contact is pretty OP, yeah[/sub]
[22:02] [user]Asparagumi[/user]: You still have character autonomy, you could say you dodge it or it hits your clothes or whatever.
[22:03] *[user]Charmen[/user] has taken it to PM as to avoid blowing up the OOC chan.. but will gladly share such with mods.


IN PM

[21:57] [user]Charmen[/user]: I'm going to do this here instead of in OOC and risk a blow up about it, but I'm fine with us going to the mods if need be. I hate calling people out.
[21:57] [user]Charmen[/user]: I've taken hits all along while you took one. You want to talk it out? Sure. He's taking the hit, with his aura that's been charging helping him tank it. They are evenly matched right now as he is at T-29 at base and that's Ark's maximum that he just reached. All this time Charmen has been singed, hurt, bleeding and again, getting hit. His aura has also been manifesting and charging to help tank for close-combat just at the chance to get to unleash some up-close fury.. until Ark actually made a move that essentially put his flesh in Charmen's mouth for opportunity. As for Stone Spit, it is a temporary thing, and something Charmen (and others) can reverse. It's a powerful thing, yes, but not deathand a great story element. Undone in many ways because it's not exactly like Fu's or Dabura's which IS very OP. Personally I think Ark the human is OP/broken to tank everything and deflect everything from an Event-giving demon made to be taken on by many and give people events and things ongoing to do.
[22:04] [user]Charmen[/user]: There's also a TON of ways around it. So it's not as if it's auto-all-stone like your desire of auto-neck-break
[22:11] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: The main thing about taking hits in this regard is that Ark has been playing the entire fight very defensively and very to his strengths. Deflecting ki blasts and running away isn't something that I'd think would really be that dependent on tiers, unless it was something so varying to the degree of say, 10 ranks or so. Ark hopped into Kaio-ken right away knowing that Charmen was strong, so he was always fighting at T-26 just to keep things manageable in defense. The attacks Ark has been throwing have been purely for defense, short of the elbow. In fact the only attack he's thrown other than the elbow was a single short range conical ki blast as a defensive/evasive maneuver, with no intent on hitting Charmen. If it did, that's a bonus. And the second Ark did do something with intent for actually harming Charmen, he immediately pushed himself to the maximum to try and match him for strength.

Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to play Ark as OP. I'm just playing him as a very smart, cautious fighter. He's very experienced and doesn't give up damage easily. And I wasn't saying that my attack should automatically beak his neck. I was speaking in the sense that if Charmen kept his head there with no intent to dodge or move it at all, and instead tank the blow, then there would be some damage. This is maxed out attack from point blank range, so I'd think to be some good damage if evasion or something wasn't in the playbook. Hell even tilting his head down so that his skull takes the hit as opposed to his jaw would likely have broken Ark's elbow, though given Charmen a concussion. Charmen's punches did also land on Ark and slammed into his rib cage, to which I was going to likely next post expand upon as having a bit of a difficulty breathing, on top of a big stamina hit from blowing a x20 kaio-ken.
[22:17] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: Also why I include things like "hoping" or other modifiers on a lot of my actions. There's always a grey area for things to not work as in tended in RP. The elbow didn't need to connect, though I hoped it would. But the actual result, in my opinion, just doesn't seem right considering the situation. A ki blast boosted, kaio-ken x 20 maxed out strike just fully stopped by him biting down without any damage seemed off to me personally. The stone spit thing is a bit of a bleh aspect in general IMO. Yes it can be interesting and used well as a plot device, but in combat it's rather anti-autonomy in RP and a bit broken. Not that I'd outright say "No, I'm not letting that happen to Ark", but it's not something I'm super enthralled to see/have happen.
[22:21] [user]Charmen[/user]: Yet you're going on ME about being OP when my character is designed for giving people things to do and helping place characters in locations they wouldn't otherwise not be able to, for story purposes. He is a very good fighter and very experienced and a demon. In NO way should a human be able to solo tank any character designed for events and just giving things people to do. [i]That's like Krillin solo taking on Frieza. [/i] You take your hits as you deem, I take mine as I deem. Do NOT tell me how to play my character, as I've not said anything about your powergaming until now despite others PMing ME about it as they've seen for themselves. That's my main reason for not going to OOC and being glad some people went to bed. Explain it all you want but when it comes down to it, you've OP powergamed like crazy and I spoke up when you decided to call me out on my character taking a hit the way that he saw would give him the greatest advantage in the moment. I wasn't super enthralled to be attacked for NO REASON but it happened. That was YOUR character's choice and your assumption.  You only JUST took a few hits and showed no sign of damage, unlike me all along. So it doesn't matter what your next post would say after the fact. This pertains to the entire fight up to now. As for the stone spit, there's MANY ways of dealing with such an attempted attack, even in that position, I just made emphasis that Ark MADE that position and put himself in it.
[22:52] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: I never called Charmen OP, I said that Stone Spit seems a bit OP. And regardless of that, how can you say that Ark [b]can't[/b] solo tank any given character, if the matchup is within reason? And it doesn't matter if your character was "designed to do" something. You say the whole human thing too like there's a rule against humans being strong enough to accomplish anything past a certain point. Who decided that? Ark was strong for a human when I started him off, yes, and I continued to play and work with him and build him up to be strong. Now he's really strong, debatably broken at first glance to most given he's not a Saiyan. But he's as strong as he is, and that's not something up in the air. Now onto the topic of powergaming, I genuinely wasn't intending that, I was deliberately having Ark be very defensive. I didn't see anything in your posts that, at least to my eye, was damage Ark was really going to take with him playing it safe and giving ground to his opponent. I might be in the wrong here with that, and if you really want to bring this up to the mods, go ahead. If they say that I was pushing it too far with not taking damage then I'll change it up. I'll admit I have been away from RP for way too long and maybe I'm off my game and I'm just not seeing things clearly/how I used to. But I don't feel I'm RPing any differently than I was about 9 months ago when I had to leave RPing behind for a while, and Ark back then did in fact get his shit pushed in to the point of needing a med pod for multiple days at least... six, seven times? Ark isn't indestructible and I'm [b]not[/b] trying to powergame. But if I see a post saying that someone fires some blasts at Ark, then fires another type of flame wave blast at Ark, those are all some of the most basic attacks you see in Dragonball, and he'd dealt with them hundreds of times. So in this specific situation, I personally didn't think that Ark would be taking much damage, if any if he played it right.

I'm also not telling you how to play your character. I was giving examples of alternatives that could have happened to "auto-neck-breaking" while still taking the hit. And on the topic of being attacked, Ark just thought it was a weird type of hologram or image. He as testing this theory with a mild ki blast. And when I say mild, I mean enough to feel like a good punch and shock, nothing very damaging (in base form no less, so even less of an attack for Charmen). And following that, Ark clearly thought that it indeed was just a hologram or image of some sort, given his quip about an afterimage. It was an honest mistake on his/my part, but one that I'm not to terribly torn up about happening.

Anyways, idk how we want to resolve this dispute, both IC and OOC. I'm genuinely sorry for seeming like I'm powergaming. It wasn't my intention. You can take it to the mods if you want to see if I should change things. As for IC... well, there's options, I suppose.

And one last thing, when you say people were PMing you about seeing it for themselves, are you talking in this specific situation? Or as in people have seen me do it in the past? Because this is my first combat RP in like... as I said, at least like 9 months. And nobody ever mentioned/had a problem with any of that back then. And like I said, Ark got his ass kicked plenty back then too.
[23:02] [user]Charmen[/user]: I don't plan on going to the mods. I plan on not playing with you again honestly. And not having you in any event I run as well. And Hellfire is fire, not a energy/ki blast.. fire is a raging element, not just energy. You also outright stated you ignored his signature move of Sonar Screech, which is [i]bull.[/i] Because not even willing to taking a small ringing to the ears to be almighty and IGNORE it outright? Yeah. OP. Aaaand.. "(in base form no less, so even less of an attack for Charmen)" <-- HE WAS CONNECTED TO IT and kept open and vulnerable for his data purposely, with damage inflicted amplified so that he could instead put his power into data collecting because he assumed he was safe from sudden energy attacks from non-combatants. So what affects MY CHARACTER is UP TO ME on how he takes the hits because I KNOW how it affects me at the given time. You attacked, it got taken. It hurt. He reacted. As for people PMing me.. it's about THIS fight. I even showed it to a few friends on discords for their take, so I know I'm not over reacting and I knew to not open the floodgates in OOC with no mod to keep people in line from chiming in or being able to settle this. As for tanking/soloing, he was doing that BEFORE even at max power NOT taking any damage or strikes or even singes, nothing. So yeah.. to finish this up? Make a post. I'm going to then make an exit post pretty much and split my path with you pronto. It's very rare I don;t want to play with someone and this sets off all of my "do not want" red flags.
[23:03] [user]Charmen[/user]: I keep Charmen VERY balanced. He designates his power about, takes hits, gets damaged, yada yada... I don't play with people who powergame or are insanely OP. So please, make whatever post you plan on so this scene can just get ended.
[23:13] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: I'm not even going to make a final post, as it wouldn't be satisfactory to either of us, I can already tell, so we're probably just best off letting it fizzle. I'd rather this problem actually get solved than ignored so RP can flow more normally through the room, because I'm going to keep RPing regardless, albeit not in your events I suppose. You're getting very, very aggravated with me for not knowing specific things about your very particular character, so sorry for that, but there's not much I can do on that front. And yeah, I can definitely see the Sonar Screech part being kinda bullshit on my part, which is my bad. It did deafen him, but to not have him physically react in the moment was my misplay.

And sorry for taking it to OOC chat. I don't think things like that through as well as I should sometimes and should have brought it to PM. So again, sorry I guess for it all.
[23:34] [user]Charmen[/user]: I'm aggravated for you assuming, dictating to me, powergaming, claiming something of mine is Op when it's really not and has a million avenues around and it all up to the opponent to handle how they wish, not asking me anything ( goes with assuming and trying to call me out), having this attitude, griping in OOC for a public display (I can make this one easily but didn't out of consideration for you and the mods) and trying to constantly explain and thus justify your OP-ness. Only now after I say I don't want to interact with you anymore do you even once claim anything and actually admit some form of wrongdoing beyond constant trying to explain it all away, which is just.. OP to take NO damage or anything, being absolutely impervious and then griping the ONE TIME the opponent tanks something just because you hit your max, when they were already at that level and building their defenses all the while. I've asked multiple people just to make sure I was not over reacting, and they reassured me, so I don't feel guilty about being pissed or about not wanting to play with you. As for Charmen's power level, he's at the max for new characters because I am hoping to earn and show I can handle being trusted with more for him through story purposes and letting him grow into it as opposed to asking for it outright. This is a new room with great people and many of varying tiers looking for story and villains and [i]fair fights[/i] with growth and bloody damage and fun and the mods are amazing people who need to be able to trust that players can settle things and be trusted with incredible power for their chars. I've seen most humans in their T-teens and none starting with kaiokenx20 which is more OP than anything I have apparently.. at least according to what I've been told. Anyways.. I'm ending the scene. I hate limbo scenes. Things like this seriously tank my mood and desire to play.

[23:51] [user]Arkaelov[/user]: Alright, it's your prerogative, but I think you're blowing this way out of proportion for what it is. At its worst, it's just honest mistakes and/or misinterpretation on my part. Sorry that you don't see it that way, but pointing things out like that is important as an RPer, so I'll look at things and possibly adjust them going forward. Though on the topic of story, trust, fair fights, and growth, I was entrusted with the ability to make an L tier character in the precursor to this room before I had to take my leave of absence nearly 9 months ago, BECAUSE of my dedication and growth over time. It's not like I'm some kind of blatant powerplayer, or how the hell would the mods (which includes some of this room's mods) rationalize such a thing? In the end, I'm sorry our first encounter came across like this and hope that maybe in the future we'll have another chance at it.

And Ark is a carry over from the past room where he earned this level of power and his abilities. I ran it by a mod to confirm that that was alright and it was. Just on the note of power levels and starting with Kaio-ken x 20.
[23:55] [user]Charmen[/user]: Bye.