darwin: racism, lack of accountability, poor integrity, prop

darwin
https://barenakedislam.com/2019/12/14/minnesotastan-did-massive-muslim-voter-fraud-help-get-somali-muslim-congresswoman-ilhan-omar-elected-to-office/
darwin
i'm skeptical this is the case.  Someone was charged with 13 counts of it.  What about all the other cases?  Isn't it hard to pull off?
darwin
or were they implying this person got thousands of fake votes in?  Wouldn't it be thousands of charges then?
fieryUSA
it's authoritarianism disguised as trolling.  the right wing has found a great new device, in the form of trolling, where they can float out authoritarian trial balloons, and then go 'just kidding!' once called out.  it's pretty pathetic...and especially pathetic from a preacher, who is supposed to NOT divide people.
infspire
darwin: I consider your source invalid.
infspire
"barnakedislam"
infspire
Do you have any valid sources, or a reason why this source is valid?
infspire
"barenakedislam"
darwin
you had not reason it's invalid.  What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
darwin
here's part of the same story from a mainstream source: https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/11/05/minneapolis-man-charged-with-absentee-ballot-fraud/
darwin
'no reason'
infspire
I do have a reason.
infspire
Are you familiar with Bayesian inference?
infspire
It states there are two classes of 'evidence': Evidence proper, which is those things which you collect after you've set your priors for this round, and the priors themselves, which, if you're doing iterative Bayesian reasoning -- the default -- contain the evidence from the previous rounds.
infspire
That is, no, not all evidence must be collected with immediacy due to some context.
infspire
Which we all intuitively know, as we don't start reasoning from first principles every time we have a new thought on any topic.
infspire
So, what are the priors in this case?
infspire
Well, we know there is a tremendous amount of propaganda on the internet at this time, that Islam is a very frequent target of that propaganda, and that Ilhan Omar is an especially frequent target of propaganda.
infspire
We know this from prior evidence which is now constitutes our prior.
infspire
So, the prior is that a random website you've never heard of that is critical of Islam has a pretty reasonable chance of being propaganda.
infspire
Next, let's analyze the role of "barenakedislam" in this context.
infspire
It's a thing putatively operating as a source, i.e. it determines which things are true -- limited by its credibility of course.
infspire
That is, it operates in the role -- you cited it as a source -- as a thing which tells us which other things are true.
infspire
That you perceive the burden is on me to show it is invalid is a complete inversion of Hume's dictum -- to whatever relevance it has in contemporary epistemology which is generally rooted in Bayesian inference.
infspire
No: You need to show to us that something you're offering as a source that none of us have ever heard of -- in opposition to something like the New York Times, Nature, or Reuters -- is a credible source.
infspire
That's how that works.
infspire
Furthermore, I went to the website, and it has a very basic web layout which generally correlates with propaganda websites.
infspire
Furthermore, a 10 second scroll through the main page indicates the page is extremely disreputable.
infspire
For example, they are carrying this story: https://barenakedislam.com/2019/12/14/turkish-muslim-cenk-uygur-who-is-running-for-congress-denies-the-armenian-genocide-but-approves-of-sex-with-animals/
infspire
However, Cenk Uygur has repeatedly denounced his prior view that there was no Armenian genocide.
infspire
He's done that as recently has about two weeks ago.
infspire
He has been 100% consistent on this for years.
infspire
I believe he last believed the Armenian genocide was fake in his early 20s or younger.
infspire
He's now 49.
infspire
So, that's a propaganda smear piece.
infspire
That now, not using the prior but the evidence, indicates -- along with the prior -- that barenakedislam is invalid.
infspire
Furthemore, you dramatically lose credibility for linking to this site, as you posited it as credible.
infspire
You have twenty minutes to respond -- the time between my comment after your last comment.
infspire
If you do not make a convincing case why your sharing of this propaganda isn't exactly what it seems to be, then I will ignore you for sharing propaganda.
infspire
Sharing propaganda is a crime against humanity.
infspire
The Minnesota site mentions 13 cases, which is not "massive".
infspire
It doesn't mention Ilhan Omar's name.
infspire
I think it's >98% I'm going to ignore you independent of what you say.
infspire
As your propaganda is extremely egregious.
infspire
But, I said 20 minutes, and so I'll hold to that.
infspire
By independent of what you say, I mean that I don't think there's anything you'll be able to say to modify the evidence -- and priors -- against you.
darwin
yeah, so apparently that site has some incorrect stuff
infspire
I just added "barenakedislam" to my browser block list.
infspire
I am now unable to see any stories from that domian.
infspire
domain*
infspire
darwin: Do you agree the video in your link provides zero evidence there was even a single fraudulent vote cast for Ilhan Omar?
darwin
i didn't watch the video.  I read the article
infspire
Are you aware there is no article associated with your link?
infspire
It's just an extended headline and a video.
infspire
(>99%, now)
darwin
there's some text
infspire
Muslim resident, Abdihakim Amin Essa, who is not even a citizen nor eligible to vote, has been charged with 13 counts of felony voter fraud in Minnesota. Essa also worked on a campaign of a local politician, but prosecutors won’t reveal the name of the politician or that politician’s party.
infspire
That's the "article"
infspire
Zero mentions of Ilhan Omar.
infspire
Do you agree the headline of the article is 100% unsubstantiated by the 'evidence' on the website you linked that is hosting the headline?
darwin
might be; might not be.  Since CBS lists the same charge, I can't imagine another candidate that person would've done it for.  It is exaggeration to say it was 'massive'
infspire
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/5/abdihakim-amin-essa-minneapolis-man-charged-felony/
infspire
No wrongdoing is alleged on the part of the people attempting to cast the 13 ballots. All 13 were rejected by election officials.
infspire
Do you recant your story 100%?
infspire
This is now the required standard, given this last citation.
infspire
"All 13 were rejected by election officials."
darwin
i didn't write a story.  I posted a link for discussion then made two critical comments of it myself
infspire
You are required to recant 100%.
infspire
Unless you have additional evidence.
darwin
darwin> i'm skeptical this is the case.  Someone was charged with 13 counts of it.  What about all the other cases?  Isn't it hard to pull off?
darwin
<darwin> or were they implying this person got thousands of fake votes in?  Wouldn't it be thousands of charges then?
infspire
The link you linked literally just made up it was Ilhan Omar's campaign because the dude was Muslim.
infspire
So, the alleged criminal in this case is a Muslim, and she's a Muslim, so it's connected.
infspire
That's the textbook definition of racism.
darwin
Islam isn't a race
infspire
Do you agree that's the textbook definition of racism?
darwin
Islam isn't a race
darwin
it has people of all races
infspire
If I replace Muslim with something you consider a race, do you agree that is the textbook definition of racism?
infspire
darwin: I put you on ignore.
infspire
I find your mind highly objectionable.
infspire
I'm a philosopher-sociologist-scientist with a verbal IQ of 154-161.
infspire
There are no human races.
infspire
By the standard, historical definition of race.
infspire
It was a folk taxonomic idea that was largely pre-science. However, most humans believe in races.
infspire
Just like most humans believe in gods, even though there are no gods.
infspire
So, we have terms like racism.
infspire
Does racism have meaning as a word? Yes, even though there are no human races.
infspire
Humans construct meaning from their beliefs. These beliefs correspond somewhat to reality, and somewhat not.
infspire
Racism is a phenomenon that occurs in the minds of humans and their constructed meaning, but it can't be found in reality outside human experience, as there are no human races.
infspire
Human races were disproved in the 1970s as a result of advances in molecular genetics.
infspire
Humans construct things like "African-American" or "Japanese" or "Muslim".
infspire
Their widely held social identities that have, generally, important visual signifiers, differential breeding rates, etc.
infspire
In this way, Islam is extremely similar to African-Americanism or Japaneseism -- neither of which are races, either.
infspire
As there are no human races.
infspire
It's just all made up meaning, but our minds make it real.
infspire
This is all pretty obvious.
infspire
If you make judgments about Muslims based on their Muslimness, that is about as objectionable as making decisions off African-Americans based off their African-Americanness.
infspire
Now, you tried to argue the point that "Islam isn't a race".
infspire
Which is a valid sociological and philosophical topic.
infspire
Except, you didn't demonstrate thinking on this level.
infspire
And you linked to a propaganda website with a single paragraph as the article with no evidence for the headline.
infspire
You then employed defense mechanisms that avoid accountability for your actions, indicating low character.
infspire
And then you dared tried to remind me, the philosopher-sociologist-scientist who just gave you a primer on Bayesian inference that "Islam isn't a race".
infspire
I'm the teacher, in our interactions.
infspire
So, in a 30 minute period, you 1) linked to a racist, propaganda article on Muslims and Ilhan Omar, 2) inverted Hume's maxim, 3) avoided accountability for the terrible story you linked, 4) avoided responsibility for your racism against Islam
infspire
And that is why I ignored you.
infspire
I will remove you from ignore in two months.