Peter__ is smart

CasualBrilliance
Tattling, whining, crying, etc.
Janedoe_: Banquo thinks operators are different classes of people, with special rights.
He self-defines as being on the left, while violating a core axiom of leftist ideology.
He would be called a "regressive leftist" by Sam Harris and his kin.
* Janedoe_ straightens her badge
CasualBrilliance
brad61 also believes in different classes of people.
AnneMarie, as well.
I have records of each of them sharing this belief.
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ⓘ IL_Shaman set mode +v AngelaTwerkel
+Janedoe_
hi AngelaTwerkel
+AngelaTwerkel
sup ma nigga
@Peter__
CasualBrilliance, can you be more specific in the cultures you are refering to sociologically? Because right now you are making broad generalizations across many different and varying peoples simply because they vote 'right' as opposed to 'left'
CasualBrilliance
Peter__: I began this thread by specifically identifying the culture I am describing.
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CasualBrilliance
Further, making generalizations is one of the core goals of scientific investigation.
I appreciate that in our political culture we're sensitive to generalizations because generalizations have historically been used, and continue to be used, in imprecise ways to make impactful decisions on people.
+Joel
the truth is that there are really brilliant people on the left and the right.. sure, the left on average is a little higher, and i myself am on the left, but i'd be kidding myself if i thought that made me smart by itself.. there are plenty of great minds on the right
CasualBrilliance
However, when done consistently with scientific methodology, generalizations are sort of the point of science.
Joel: That was a non-sequitur.
Though, true.
+Joel
lania: no it was not
Ignoring Joel!*@*
CasualBrilliance
Joel, you lost the thread.
This happened because my words violate some cultural norms you accept.
What I asserted was that there are two populations of Americans, X and Y.
Further, I said the mean of X, in regards to trait(s) Z is greater than the mean for Y.
It is a non-sequitur, in this context, to talk about those members of Y who have a value above the mean of X.
Nobody who has a solid grasp of logical quantifiers will ever make the mistake of conflating means with "everyone in group X"..
For the record, mastery of logical quantifiers, in the Model of Hierarchical Complexity, is stage nine.
Multivarriable analysis in multiple perspective systems is stage 12.
For example, the biopsychosocial model in nursing practice.
+nsc
i propose that there aren't any brilliant minds on the left or the right
CasualBrilliance
I am at stage 13 in the MHC, with flirtations in stages 14 and 15.
+nsc
and the brilliant minds are the middle path
CasualBrilliance
It will never be necessary to remind me of ongoings at stage 9.
+AngelaTwerkel
http://projectveritasaction.com/video/caught-camera-clinton-staffer-says-i-could-grab-her-ass-and-no...
+pela
[ CAUGHT ON CAMERA: Clinton Staffer Says I Could Grab [Her] Ass and Not Get Fired; Ripping Up Ballots is Fine | Project Veritas Action  ]
+nsc
chosing whichever from either
at any time
CasualBrilliance
Joel: I put you on ignore 75 seconds ago.
Reason: You're still struggling with stage 9 reasoning, apparently, and so that won't make for a productive conversation with me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_of_hierarchical_complexity
+pela
[ Model of hierarchical complexity - Wikipedia  ]
+goomba
how many SD's do the two means differ by
CasualBrilliance
I don't have that information at this time.
+goomba
seems like important information
CasualBrilliance
However, there is research by Jonathan Haidt in this regard.
Specifically, "liberals" do more of the moral reasoning on the care/harm dimension.
Also, "liberals" have higher rates of empathy than "conservatives" or "libertarians".
This is cause/effect of a less developed theory of mind among "conservatives".
+goomba
yeah conservatives also value things like sanctity and loyalty and one other thing
CasualBrilliance
Yes.
Are you familiar with his work?
+goomba
a little bit
CasualBrilliance
Haidt asserts conservatives tend to reason pretty equally on all dimensions.
+AngelaTwerkel
"Ann Coulter: "Going way, way, way back to a few weeks ago, the same media gasping in horror at "p*ssy" sure didn't mind my being called a c*nt repeatedly on a Comedy Central broadcast. And when I say "didn't mind," I mean they thought it was awesome.""
+goomba
just the basics
CasualBrilliance
Whereas liberals have more care/harm and a bit less of some of the other dimensions.
There seems to be a growing trend to see political views as derivative and cognitive/emotional styles as primary.
So, empathy/amygdala volume is the primary. If you have lesser amygdala volume or development then you're more likely to be a conservative.
ⓘ Joel is now known as Joel-78IQ
ⓘ Joel-78IQ is now known as Joel-worksforme
CasualBrilliance
That is, you are more likely to only be able to reason, real-time, about the values you're most directly associated with, i.e. birth culture.
ⓘ Joel-worksforme is now known as Joel-actually-its-130
@Peter__
Now you are going into bs.
CasualBrilliance
Joel, you're not a bad person.
You were just signaling you're not my peer on that topic.
ⓘ Joel-actually-its-130 is now known as Joel-whatever-troll
CasualBrilliance
And I'm not going to revert to 6th grade reasoning about "some" v "all".
@Peter__
Those with overly large amygdala's tend to be one's that have issues with anger or fear. YOu haven't studied neuro-anatomy.
CasualBrilliance
If you're ready to abandon that nonsense and speak only in terms of statistical reasoning, we can chat again.
Peter, I believe that is false.
Do you have a citation?
ⓘ Joel-whatever-troll is now known as Joel-like-i-said-whatever
@Peter__
You've shown you are speaking out of your ass.
CasualBrilliance
Joel, you're not emotionally recovering.
* Peter__ taught neuroanatomy.
ⓘ Joel-like-i-said-whatever is now known as Joel
CasualBrilliance
You're entrenching in some kind of defensive posture. This isn't peer behavior for me, so it appears it isn't going to work out at this time.
Peter, that's interesting.
Do you have a citation for your claim? You may be right.
I am Googling.
+nsc
well they say ppl who watch fox are substanded mentally
fox news
CasualBrilliance
nsc, the data supports that claim.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0074096
+pela
[ PLOS ONE: Amygdala Volume Predicts Inter-Individual Differences in Fearful Face Recognition  ]
CasualBrilliance
The present study investigates the relationship between inter-individual differences in fearful face recognition and amygdala volume. Thirty normal adults were recruited and each completed two identical facial expression recognition tests offline and two magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans. Linear regression indicated that the left amygdala volume negatively correlated with the accuracy of recognizing fearful facial expressions and positively correlated with the probability of misrecognizing fear as surprise. Further exploratory analyses revealed that this relationship did not exist for any other subcortical or cortical regions. Nor did such a relationship exist between the left amygdala volume and performance recognizing the other five facial expressions. These mind-brain associations highlight the importance of the amygdala in recognizing fearful faces and provide insights regarding inter-individual differences in sensitivity toward fear-relevant stimuli.
It appears your claim is refuted, Peter__.
@Peter__
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201311/the-size-and-connectivity-the-amygdala-...
+pela
[ The Size and Connectivity of the Amygdala Predicts Anxiety | Psychology Today  ]
+nsc
voting for bush
CasualBrilliance
As amygdala volume increases, there is less chance of detecting fear, and instead perceiving it as surprise.
+nsc
makes them even more suseptical
CasualBrilliance
Anxiety is not the same as fear and anger, notably.
Higher rates of anxiety seem intuitively reasonable to me.
(Of course the data always decides)
For example, say that the average human isn't very trustworthy at some level of spiritual understanding.
+nsc
the level of people with paranoid skitzophrenia must be high i bet
CasualBrilliance
Then, higher rates of empathy will allow one to detect that, and it may be an unpleasant detection
+nsc
in usa
CasualBrilliance
For example, try having a conversation with some people about the ethics of vegetarianism.
+nsc
and depression
+goomba
CasualBrilliance's link doesnt support the claim
this is silly
CasualBrilliance
What is silly?
+goomba
is he trollin
CasualBrilliance
goomba: I don't engage people who use the word trolling too much.
I'd prefer to engage you.
ⓘ notK set mode +v CasualBrilliance
+CasualBrilliance
This is an interesting article, Peter.
@Peter__
CasualBrilliance, Your points are interesting too.
+CasualBrilliance
I'm trying to see if they talk about causation.
:)
@Peter__
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140616093200.htm
+pela
[ Anxious children have bigger 'fear centers' in the brain -- ScienceDaily  ]
+CasualBrilliance
The basolateral amygdala is the specific region that was larger in children with higher anxiety. This is an evolutionarily older and ‘primal’ subregion which processes emotion-related sensory information and communicates it to the more cerebral neocortex which is an evolutionarily newer part of the brain according to Shaozheng Qin, PhD, the lead author of the study.
From your article.
+nsc
if you need a gun to protect yourself all the time
you would get paranoid
+CasualBrilliance
So, maybe the higher rates of emotional processing are occurring first, causing the processing center to expand.
Peter__: You've convinced me that the issue, at the very least, is more complicated than I believed.
@Peter__
:)
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+CasualBrilliance
Perhaps it matters which portions of the amygdala have changed in size.
ⓘ notK set mode +v Timmotay
@Peter__
<CasualBrilliance, it also matters how connected it is to other neuro-organs and where/how.
+CasualBrilliance
The Stanford researchers have “identified four functional neocortical systems that were affected. One of the systems deals with perception, another with attention and vigilance, a third with reward and motivation, and the fourth with detection of salient emotional stimuli and regulation of emotional responses. All four of these core systems are impacted by childhood anxiety," Qin said.
+nsc
i dont need evidence to believe fox news viewers are intellectually challenged
+CasualBrilliance
Vigilance was a key word for me in that paragraph.
It looks like these kids are in abusive settings and their empathy increases to predict when more abuse will come.
Psychologists, sans neuroscience, often discuss that phenomenon in abused children.
So, maybe it's insufficient to only know the relative volume of the amygdala.
Perhaps there are different reasons for increased amygdala size.
@Peter__
CasualBrilliance, I think you are over thinking it. Classical conditioning can explain different types of 'F/F/F' reactivites before we get into the complexities of relationships to mirror neurons and the Insula.
+CasualBrilliance
Perhaps one population started off with relatively normal size amygdalas, experienced childhood stress, and then compensated with more concern related to fear.
And perhaps another population is born with a relatively larger amygdala.
F/F/F?
@Peter__
CasualBrilliance, it depends on the genetic lineage as well.
+CasualBrilliance
Fight flight?
@Peter__
Fight/Flight/Freeze.
+CasualBrilliance
I always liked fight/flight/posture/submit
@Peter__
The basic activiation of the sympathetic nervous system.
Now you are going into the parasypathetic with the 'submit'
+CasualBrilliance
I think there is a sympathetic choice to submit before the primary submit cascades in the PS.
@Peter__
define 'choice' or give context, especially age.
+CasualBrilliance
A person cowering beneath and abuser is probably not in a PS response.
Perhaps I should have said decision rather than choice
@Peter__
In some ways, one is.
+CasualBrilliance
How so
I think the PS submit responses will only occur after a signal by the aggressor that harm will reduce
@Peter__
The sypathetic nervous system relates the energy to the musculature and limbs, the PS to the organs.
@Peter__
When someone 'submits' they are still sympathetically stimulated, but in a way that 'submits' to one's environment, the S is build for resistance and active action
PS for passive action
A 'forced' trauamtized relaxation is still a type of relaxation, however unstable.
+CasualBrilliance
Those are interesting claims
I'd like to learn more about it
@Peter__
It just leaves different layerings of tension for the sympathetic nervous sytem to passively exsit.
CasualBrialliance, Very few in our culture can achieve 'true relaxxation' due to the sympathetic nerovous system never fully 'turning off' because of the chronic anxieity in our modern cultures and genetic lineages.
+CasualBrilliance
I wonder if this topic is a little too complicated for the standard P v PS dichotomy
@Peter__
That's why I do yoga and meditation :)
+CasualBrilliance
S v PS*
@Peter__
Well, they ar,e in some ways, Always both active
TO what extent for each?
That's the relative question.
You can relax all your muscles and body so completely, but your diaphram will still move to breath
Hence sympathetic stimulation
+CasualBrilliance
Peter__: are you familiar with Kai Engel the composer
He's a contemporary Russian dude
@Peter__
I am not
Coolio
+CasualBrilliance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wixL15LNru0
+pela
[ Kai Engel - Oneiri - YouTube  ]
+CasualBrilliance
I'm curious if you'll like this
It's got some relaxing parts
I'm hearing what you're saying
It seems we have to move out of natural language to scientific measurement to really understand this issue
This song is from his album ICD-10
ICD-10 is the 10th revision of the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD), a medical classification list by the World Health Organization (WHO). It contains codes for diseases, signs and symptoms, abnormal findings, complaints, social circumstances, and external causes of injury or diseases.[1]
heh
+AngelaTwerkel
http://i.imgur.com/V7Np6EZ.gif
@Peter__
CasualBrillaince, the scientific measurements haven't been invented yet. We need tests that are able to see the neuro-activation of the entire body in exquisite detail in RT during various practiced and authentic activities  in order to get a more complete picture
MRI, CRT, Magnetic resonance...they tell a bit of the picture, but we are still only scratching the surface in many ways.
@Peter__
CasualBrilliance, the piece is pleasingly mathmatical. :P Especially with the ascent of notes from the beginning before the melody kicks off.
+CasualBrilliance
This Kai Engel guy is like 24
I look at his picture and I am amazed a person of that age can make these sounds
@Peter__
Try this ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r364h19dXio
+pela
[ The Lotus Sutra - YouTube  ]
+CasualBrilliance
hehe
I am largely influenced by Buddhism
I was reading about Buddhism last night
+nsc
sunday sport isnt trustworthy newspaper
+CasualBrilliance
I was going through the Dhammapada recently
@Peter__
Oh?
Any particular branch?
Or tradition strike you yet? or just in general?
+CasualBrilliance
I don't have enough knowledge to decide between the divisions, but I have probably been influenced the most by Theravada
Largely due to the works of Thich Naht Hanh
@Peter__
CasualBrilliance, have you done or interest in doing a Vipassana retreat?
+CasualBrilliance
I don't know what that is
@Peter__
Thich Naht Hanh is quite the guy :
:)
+CasualBrilliance
He seems pretty smart
I read his exposition of the Heart sutra
@Peter__
CasualBrialliance, it's traditionally a 10 day meditation retreat done in complete silence as a group.Giving yourself a chance to go more into yourself with the different Theravada techniques of meditation.
* Peter__ loves reciting the Heart Sutra in Japanese.
+CasualBrilliance
heh
Do you know the entire sutra by memory?
@Peter__
Almost.
We have a local Shingon group, a small esoteric tantric japanese sect close to where I live.
Focuses deeply on mantras and mudras.
@Peter__
What nterests you most about Buddhism?
+CasualBrilliance
I think Buddhism had the deepest knowledge of the mind of any system on Earth until perhaps the 20th century
@Peter__
:) It has some very interesting systems, no doubt.
+CasualBrilliance
Cognitive science has probably surpassed Buddhism in some ways, but I think it still remains able to share valuable insight even with contemporary cognitive science
@Peter__
I was just in Dharamsala India for a few months this summer.
Looking more into the different Tibetan styles.
+nsc
interesting that buddhists never wrote down, it was all spoken, up to about the same era other religions started recording their teachings
@Peter__
nsc, when did that happen?
+nsc
1AD
@Peter__
CasualBrilliance, the mappings of the brain in modern times are sure fascinating.
+CasualBrilliance
I was reading a bit about tantra last night
@Peter__
nsc, *nods*
+CasualBrilliance
Typically people only hear that word in the context of sexuality
What would you say is the core of tantric Buddhism?
@Peter__
CasualBrilliance, very true. I have two answers for that I suppose.
Mantra, Mudra, and Inner Visualization.
And 'The Many'
It is known as the left handed path.
← Joel has left (i can't believe you're talking to this retard)
+CasualBrilliance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhSpLiCpz9A
+pela
[ Kai Engel - Endless Story About Sun And Moon - Piano - M�sica Cl�sica Contempor�nea - YouTube  ]
+CasualBrilliance
Check out that song
It's just a masterpiece of human culture
What is Mudra?
I assume Mantra is repeating certain words/sounds?
@Peter__
CasualBrialliance, a Mudra is a physical symbol. Either a hand posture or a body posture as a whole in most contexts. They say that the position the body is in positions the mind, and stimulates different types of creativity, expression and orientations of physiolgical homoeostatis.
Generally yes
Let alone psychological orientations.
@Peter__
The voice box can vibrate the body and brain in many different ways. The different mantras are shaped differently to create various patterns of internal stimulation, usually associated with different streams of consciousness/creativvity.
And that was very nice. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsgP8LkEopM
+pela
[ Nahko Bear (Medicine for the People) � Aloha Ke Akua - YouTube  ]
@Peter__
This is one of my current favorite songs.
CasualBrilliance, it is the idea that sound and action can affect epigentical change without overt external situations to passively define how we activate within our selves.
Besides how we actively use imagination.