[17:08] <@GReaper> nerf the fucker
01[17:09] <@Strafe> WHY DOTH THEE
[17:10] <@Mabel> i'm doing it
[17:10] <@Mabel> i'm making it a projectile
[17:10] <@Mabel> fuck you all
[17:10] <@Mabel> fuck your hitscan
[17:10] <@Mabel> also
[17:10] <@Mabel> linear falloff of damage
[17:10] <@Mabel> STARTING AT YOUR GUN
[17:10] <@GReaper> make the chaingun hitscan!
[17:10] <@Mabel> and you have to charge it
[17:10] <@Mabel> and it takes energy
[17:10] <@Mabel> i'll be fucked if anybody can use this weapon ever again
[17:11] <@Mabel> and the bullet falls
[17:11] <@Mabel> all bullets will fall
[17:11] <@Mabel> i am pro game design
01[17:14] <@Strafe> is it really being nerfed
06[17:14] * @GReaper swings nerf bat
[17:14] <+Darklord> damn well better be
[17:15] <@GReaper> sniper rifle - nerf
[17:15] <@GReaper> chaingun - moar damage needed
[17:15] <+Darklord> just have it shoot nerf projectiles
[17:15] <@GReaper> rocket launcher - more damage, more splash
[17:15] <+Darklord> that bounce off people
[17:15] <@GReaper> grenade launcher - MOAR!
[17:15] <+Darklord> and mabel, I think we should try gorge with accelerators that don't hurt you
[17:15] <+Darklord> it didn't work well as is, even if that was partly the sniper
01[17:16] <@Strafe> it's not op
01[17:16] <@Strafe> at all
01[17:16] <@Strafe> this is silly
[17:17] <@Mabel> u mad?
01[17:18] <@Strafe> U BAD AT BALANCING WEAPONS?
01[17:18] <@Strafe> I THINK SO
[17:18] <@GReaper> it's pointless balancing weapons now
[17:19] <+Darklord> you can prevent things from being gamebreaking though
01[17:19] <@Strafe> i laughed
[17:21] <@GReaper> more maps -> fix gameplay -> fix weapons
03[17:22] * Strafe is now known as Strife
03[17:24] * Ucans (webchat@ool-45767c3a.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #legions.beta
03[17:24] * Q sets mode: +v Ucans
[17:24] <+Ucans> why
[17:25] <+Anti_Kryst> How can u balance a weapon of only a few people who can use it?
[17:25] <+Anti_Kryst> Im open for discussion and change, but reasons ...
[17:25] <+Darklord> do != can
[17:25] <@GReaper> you can't balance an advanced weapon when people spawn with it
[17:26] <+Darklord> thats just wrong greaper -_-
[17:26] <@GReaper> moar nerf? :p
[17:26] <+Anti_Kryst> So... the inventory load out change
[17:26] <+Anti_Kryst> why is it not in yet?
[17:26] <+Darklord> means little in regards to weapon balance
[17:26] <+Anti_Kryst> I couldnt make half the shots i do with it
[17:26] <+Anti_Kryst> Thats bullshit
[17:27] <@Mabel> because greaper said no
[17:27] <@Mabel> true story
[17:27] <@GReaper> wtf
[17:27] <@GReaper> i'm blamed for everything
[17:27] <@Mabel> fucking yes
[17:27] <@Mabel> you're the one who stops me from just putting shit on live
[17:27] <@Mabel> so yes
[17:27] <@Mabel> BLAMED FOR EVERYTHING
[17:27] <+Anti_Kryst> I can respawn, for a reason, just to make a shot on capper as he grabs it
[17:27] <+Anti_Kryst> I USE THE RESPAWN SYSTEM TO SNIPE CAPPERS
[17:27] <+Anti_Kryst> = RAGE
[17:27] <+Darklord> -_-
[17:27] <+Anti_Kryst> The weapon isnt OP
[17:27] <@Mabel> kryst
[17:28] <+Darklord> it really, really is
[17:28] <@Mabel> that's like saying
01[17:28] <@Strife> it's not
[17:28] <@Mabel> is the chaingun op
[17:28] <+Darklord> hitscan weapon that can hit anywhere on the map
[17:28] <@Mabel> because 5 people can shoot with it
[17:28] <@Mabel> idk
[17:28] <@Mabel> yes.
[17:28] <@Mabel> balance
[17:28] <@Mabel> also
[17:28] <+Ucans> anywhere??
[17:28] <+Anti_Kryst> Anywhere on the map, with how much damage?
01[17:28] <@Strife> ANYWHERE ACORSS THE ENTIRE MAP
01[17:28] <@Strife> ACORS
[17:28] <+Anti_Kryst> Its not unlimited range
[17:28] <@Mabel> cors
[17:28] <@Mabel> imo
01[17:28] <@Strife> yes
[17:28] <+Ucans> You're nerfing one person
[17:28] <+Ucans> Pretty much
[17:28] <+Ucans> Noone uses it
[17:28] <@GReaper> just blame me for the sniper rifle
[17:28] <@GReaper> !
[17:28] <+Darklord> How the fuck
[17:29] <+Darklord> do you not understand
[17:29] <@Mabel> it's greapers fault
01[17:29] <@Strife> merf greaper
[17:29] <+Darklord> that just because more peopel don't use it
[17:29] <@GReaper> see!
01[17:29] <@Strife> merf?
01[17:29] <@Strife> wtf
[17:29] <+Darklord> does not mean that more people cannot use it
[17:29] <+Anti_Kryst> I use to offensively to take out chasers and cappers on LO
[17:29] <+Anti_Kryst> how is that more op than a bowl party?
[17:29] <+Anti_Kryst> I bowl party
[17:29] <+Anti_Kryst> just with sniper
01[17:29] <@Strife> if it was as overpowered as you think it is everyone would use it
[17:29] <+Anti_Kryst> and I focus priority targets
01[17:29] <@Strife> not like three people
01[17:29] <@Strife> who are good with it
[17:30] <+Anti_Kryst> aka chasers and cappers
[17:30] <@Mabel> the problem is mostly
[17:30] <+Anti_Kryst> I dont mind balance, but you guys are putting up NO argument of why its OP
[17:30] <@Mabel> the level of gay you output in pugs
[17:30] <@Mabel> i can not count
[17:30] <@Mabel> the number of times
[17:30] <@Mabel> people have asked me
[17:30] <@Mabel> to stop you people gaying it up
[17:31] <@GReaper> homopug
01[17:31] <@Strife> I BET THEY WERE ALL CAPPERS
01[17:31] <@Strife> LOL
[17:31] <+Anti_Kryst> Thats not a balance issue
[17:31] <@Mabel> i'll do what i think is fight
[17:31] <@Mabel> in
[17:31] <@Mabel> the
01[17:31] <@Strife> LOL
[17:31] <@Mabel> end
[17:31] <@Mabel> BUT
[17:31] <+Ucans> l2skii
[17:31] <@GReaper> fight? :p
[17:31] <+Ucans> You all fly in straight lines
[17:31] <@Mabel> if you're playing in a pug
[17:31] <+Ucans> LOLFRONTROUTE
[17:31] <@Mabel> you're playing for fucking fun
[17:31] <+Anti_Kryst> so only chasers are to block/down cappers?
[17:31] <@Mabel> don't be complete asshats and kill them
[17:31] <+Darklord> god
[17:31] <@Mabel> that's all i'll say
[17:32] <@Mabel> i'll change it if i feel i need to
[17:32] <+Darklord> I dont even know what to say to your arguements
[17:32] <+Darklord> they are just absurd
01[17:32] <@Strife> no
01[17:32] <@Strife> they aren't
[17:32] <+Darklord> how do you flat out not understand the game
[17:32] <+Darklord> that much
[17:32] <+Anti_Kryst> You have no argument DL
01[17:32] <@Strife> you're just myopic
01[17:32] <@Strife> as all fuck
[17:32] <+Darklord> that you cannot see how the fuck sniper affects the game
01[17:32] <@Strife> dude
[17:32] <+Darklord> and why it is bad
01[17:32] <@Strife> you're basing your judgement
01[17:32] <@Strife> off like 3 games
01[17:32] <@Strife> where
01[17:32] <@Strife> the sniper could free snipe
[17:32] <@Mabel> brb circlejerk
[17:32] <+Darklord> I have always been against the sniper
01[17:32] <@Strife> because the team had NO LO
[17:32] <+Darklord> it shouldn't exist in legions
[17:33] <+Darklord> it does not work
01[17:33] <@Strife> it does, just not for you
[17:33] <+Darklord> every time someone decent uses it on defense
[17:33] <+Darklord> things get retarded immediately
[17:33] <+Anti_Kryst> It worked perfectlu fine in competive play
[17:33] <+Darklord> decent aim + low ping gives them enormous control over 50% of the play area
01[17:33] <@Strife> then you kill them
01[17:34] <@Strife> because snipe dueling is hardly practical against anyone good
[17:34] <+Darklord> except you are at 50% by the time you get in, and their teammates clear you up instantly
[17:34] <+Darklord> and lol @ hitscan weapon not being good at close range
01[17:34] <@Strife> did i say that?
01[17:34] <@Strife> i didn't
[17:34] <+Anti_Kryst> Have you tried to duel in hornet?
[17:34] <+Anti_Kryst> Have you tried?
[17:35] <+Anti_Kryst> Against mabel
[17:35] <+Anti_Kryst> or apc
[17:35] <@Mabel> yes
[17:35] <+Anti_Kryst> or anyone gunner
[17:35] <@Mabel> because i rape people
[17:35] <+Anti_Kryst> who can kill
[17:35] <@Mabel> with everything
[17:35] <@Mabel> always
[17:35] <+Anti_Kryst> I was asking dl, but I have not played against you mabel
[17:35] <@Mabel> i ended up just using rockets
[17:35] <+Darklord> how can you not see how the sphere of influence of a sniper is a bad thing
[17:35] <+Darklord> I just don't get it
[17:36] <+Anti_Kryst> How can you not see a chaser has an outcome of a game? or a hof? or a good dueler on LO?
[17:36] <+Darklord> not to mention there is nothing you can do against it at most ranges
01[17:36] <@Strife> good lo
01[17:36] <@Strife> >
[17:36] <@Mabel> i remain unconvinced that it's broken in games that weren't fundamentally broken otherwise
01[17:36] <@Strife> snipers
[17:36] <@Mabel> gorge > best lo
01[17:36] <@Strife> 4 SNIPER PUG
[17:36] <@Mabel> trufax
[17:36] <@Mabel> that was pretty awesome
[17:37] <@Mabel> gorge is banned from pugs
[17:37] <@Mabel> by the fay
[17:37] <@GReaper> !!!
[17:37] <@Mabel> BY THE WAY
01[17:37] <@Strife> make LO not ridiculous
01[17:37] <@Strife> for gorge
[17:37] <+Darklord> the upper cap for a snipers influence is an order of magnitude above that of any other weapon/position
[17:37] <@Mabel> brb magic
[17:37] <+Darklord> how often can they take a shot, like ever 2 seconds?
[17:37] <+Anti_Kryst> so you spend all this time on gorge, and now not use it in pugs?
[17:38] <+Darklord> gorge without sniping and with jumppads that don't damage you might work fine
[17:38] <@Mabel> lolnodamage
01[17:38] <@Strife> that's dumb
[17:38] <+Darklord> really
[17:38] <+Darklord> why
[17:39] <+Anti_Kryst> So you guys want to nerf sniper, make it so noone ever touches it again, and then just let the rocket/chain/gernade utilize the field?
[17:39] <@Mabel> exactly
[17:39] <+Darklord> that would be ideal, yes
[17:39] <@Mabel> actually
[17:39] <+Anti_Kryst> lol
[17:39] <+Darklord> because it doesn't work in legions
[17:39] <@Mabel> i will just remove everything but chain
[17:39] <+Darklord> as legions currently exists
[17:39] <@Mabel> and give it splash
01[17:39] <@Strife> why do you even bother having a pt group
[17:40] <@Mabel> because you are
[17:40] <@Mabel> hilarious
[17:40] <+Anti_Kryst> so now why pick any class outside of gunner and chaser?
[17:40] <@GReaper> we need a select group of people for Mabel to troll
[17:40] <@GReaper> and you guys were special :p
01[17:40] <@Strife> there's no point
01[17:40] <@Strife> it'slike
[17:40] <+Anti_Kryst> Why was there no complaints about this sniper pre-IA's destruction
[17:41] <+Anti_Kryst> or not as much
[17:41] <@Mabel> because you had
[17:41] <@Mabel> no
[17:41] <@Mabel> eyes
[17:41] <+Anti_Kryst> No I had eyes
[17:41] <+Darklord> the netcode fixes made everything way worse
[17:41] <+Anti_Kryst> Im not complaining about change, but you guys want to nullify it completely
[17:41] <+Darklord> its low ping snipers that are the biggest problem, because it is hitscan
[17:42] <+Anti_Kryst> Welcome to every game on earth with a sniper
03[17:42] * Deskari (webchat@108.28.89.209) has joined #legions.beta
03[17:42] * Q sets mode: +v Deskari
[17:42] <+Anti_Kryst> Sniper and ping have always been hand in hand
[17:42] <+Darklord> except most games, snipers have very limited areas where they can influence
[17:42] <+Anti_Kryst> im sorry you cant do it with your 100 ping
[17:42] <+Darklord> and players have things they can hide behind
[17:42] <@Mabel> :>
01[17:42] <@Strife> so run LO
[17:42] <+Darklord> in this, if you are at your base you can hit 60% of the map
01[17:42] <@Strife> and focus the sniper
01[17:42] <@Strife> like
[17:43] <+Darklord> or like 80% of it if you are in the middle of the map
[17:43] <@GReaper> as i suggested, at least a 40% nerf needed
[17:43] <@GReaper> like the rocket nerf :p
[17:43] <@Mabel> bare minimum
[17:43] <@Mabel> imo
01[17:43] <@Strife> :|
[17:43] <+Darklord> chain was cut in half
[17:43] <+Darklord> rocket was reduced
[17:43] <+Anti_Kryst> ok, give me nerf, but give me reload time
[17:43] <+Darklord> sniper is the same
[17:43] <@Mabel> technically
[17:44] <@Mabel> reduced the sniper 5x
[17:44] <@Mabel> ish
02[17:44] * +Anti_Kryst (Anti_Kryst@66-169-113-169.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) Quit (Signed off)
03[17:44] * Anti_Kryst (Anti_Kryst@66-169-113-169.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) has joined #legions.beta
03[17:44] * Q sets mode: +v Anti_Kryst
[17:44] <@GReaper> seriously though
06[17:44] * @GReaper puts srs hat on
[17:45] <+Anti_Kryst> So what damage do u want sniper at?
[17:45] <+Anti_Kryst> What are you thinking
[17:45] <@Mabel> srs.srs
[17:45] <@Mabel> apparently
[17:45] <+Darklord> damage isn't the big thing
[17:45] <@GReaper> the level of fun in games for other players in games against snipers is reduced
[17:45] <+Deskari> lol
[17:45] <+Darklord> enormously so, against good snipers
[17:45] <+Darklord> because you cant do anything to dodge against a hitscan weapon with enormous range
[17:45] <+Darklord> not much at least
[17:46] <@GReaper> which is why we're returning the GLS to it's former glory and giving it back to raiders!
01[17:46] <@Strife> not a game problem
[17:47] <@Mabel> seriously?
[17:47] <@GReaper> so, raider with GLS will be the supreme anti-sniper tool!
01[17:47] <@Strife> i don't care enough anymore to finish what i was going to say with that
[17:47] <@Mabel> i'm just looking to bring good snipers in with good [chasers/lo/s@h]
01[17:47] <@Strife> the balance circle jerk is getting old
[17:47] <@Mabel> i'm unconvinced it's broken
[17:47] <@Mabel> as is
[17:47] <@Mabel> like i said
[17:48] <@Mabel> i've never seen it be broken in games that didn't have other horrible problems
[17:48] <+Ucans> Anyone who is good at anything will make the game unfun for the other team
[17:48] <@Mabel> ucans, it's just about scale
[17:48] <@Mabel> a person who is exceptional at something
[17:48] <+Darklord> sniper kills when you have literally no method of harming the other player
[17:48] <+Darklord> all the other weapons, you can at least shoot back
[17:48] <@Mabel> it's difficult to balance exceptional players against each other
[17:48] <+Deskari> you can shoot back
[17:49] <+Darklord> ...
[17:49] <+Darklord> dont be dumb
[17:49] <+Darklord> you know exactly what I mean
01[17:49] <@Strife> LO
[17:49] <+Deskari> lol
[17:49] <+Deskari> yeah...Im the one being dumb...right
[17:49] <@Mabel> but i'm not convinced it's broken atm
[17:50] <@Mabel> snipers are always bullshitty
[17:50] <@Mabel> fact
[17:50] <+Deskari> well, depends what you mean by bullshitty
[17:50] <+Darklord> so lets just leave it in and let the bullshit continue
[17:50] <+Darklord> good plan
[17:50] <@Mabel> well desk
[17:50] <+Ucans> Focusing LO > Sniper
[17:50] <@Mabel> they're always ragemagnets
[17:50] <+Ucans> I cant do shit when you guys shoot at me
[17:50] <+Deskari> so, stop being mad
[17:50] <@Mabel> i'm not
[17:50] <@Mabel> read what i said
[17:50] <+Darklord> rofl ucan
[17:50] <+Deskari> or use that anger
[17:50] <+Darklord> thats just a fucking lie
[17:51] <+Darklord> 100%
[17:51] <+Darklord> the number of times you sniped me from 10m
[17:51] <@Mabel> in that pub
[17:51] <+Darklord> it is just stupid
[17:51] <@Mabel> pug
[17:51] <@Mabel> where you had no lo?
[17:51] <@Mabel> sorry
[17:51] <+Darklord> or the one that we had me and strife?
[17:51] <+Darklord> as lo?
[17:51] <+Darklord> and unknown capping?
[17:51] <@Mabel> against freeman ucan and kissy
[17:52] <+Darklord> exactly
[17:52] <@Mabel> hmm.
[17:52] <+Darklord> so its even at worst
[17:52] <+Darklord> and yet he is saying he is helpless when shot at
[17:52] <+Darklord> that is just not true
[17:52] <+Darklord> at all
[17:53] <+Anti_Kryst> Taking away a weapon from legions, with its limited weapon state and maps is prob not the best idea
[17:54] <@Mabel> yeah, i'm totally going to make it and the chaingun ballistic projectiles with exponential falloff
[17:54] <@Mabel> calm down
[17:54] <@GReaper> don't worry about it at this time
[17:54] <+Anti_Kryst> No, im ok for change... but you saying taking a weapon and making it completely useless will make players quit, and my donations stop
[17:54] <@GReaper> it needs balancing, but there are other things to worry about
[17:55] <@Mabel> that's not a useful statement kryst
[17:55] <@Mabel> because evrybody knows it
[17:55] <+Anti_Kryst> how is it not?
[17:55] <@Mabel> twice
[17:55] <+Deskari> we need to balance all weapons to do 0 damange.  Nobody will then rage.  It'll be a happy game of building friendship
[17:55] <+Deskari> lets hold hands guys
[17:55] <@Mabel> yes the trolling
[17:55] <@Mabel> needed
[17:55] <+Deskari> totally
[17:55] <+Anti_Kryst> U guys piss enough people off, and the games gonna die
[17:56] <+Anti_Kryst> you offer to nerf the sniper, but put nothing its its place
[17:56] <@GReaper> ...
06[17:56] * @Mabel looks over what he said
[17:56] <@Mabel> i'm not sure you're reading
[17:56] <+Ucans> This was all over the time period of barely a week
[17:56] <+Ucans> Neglecting the attempt to adapt
[17:56] <+Anti_Kryst> You said you want to nerf the sniper to where noone uses it
[17:56] <+Anti_Kryst> or whatever
[17:56] <@GReaper> why all the sudden panic?
[17:56] <@GReaper> seriously?
[17:56] <@Mabel> you're taking me so seriously
[17:56] <+Deskari> why all the sudden nerfing?
[17:56] <+Deskari> seriously?
[17:57] <+Anti_Kryst> Because I rape DL on chase
[17:57] <@Mabel> because nerfing splash is fun
[17:57] <+Darklord> no kryst
[17:57] <+Anti_Kryst> and snipe him before he can leave base
[17:57] <@Mabel> imo
[17:57] <+Darklord> if you want to know the truth
[17:57] <+Darklord> no one complained when it was just you using it
[17:57] <@Mabel> u no liek my splash nerf?
[17:57] <+Darklord> because you don't use it very effectively
[17:57] <+Darklord> its when ucan started using it that it got absurd
[17:57] <+Anti_Kryst> Lol
[17:57] <+Ucans> NERF UCAN
[17:57] <+Anti_Kryst> Lolllllll
[17:57] <+Ucans> NERF
[17:57] <+Darklord> he is a FAR better sniper then you
[17:57] <+Anti_Kryst> nerf mabel
[17:57] <+Anti_Kryst> hes too good
[17:57] <+Darklord> ping is a big part of that
[17:57] <+Anti_Kryst> on LO
[17:57] <+Anti_Kryst> Mabel OP on LD
[17:57] <+Anti_Kryst> mabel OP on LO
[17:58] <+Anti_Kryst> Nerf all weapons
[17:58] <@Mabel> good idea
[17:58] <+Deskari> you insulting Kryst doesn't exactly build the credibility of your argument
[17:58] <@Mabel> but you ARE COMPARING YOURSELF TO ME
[17:58] <@Mabel> and i think
[17:58] <@Mabel> we all know who's better
[17:58] <+Darklord> desk
[17:58] <+Darklord> learn to read
[17:58] <+Deskari> how about you learn to read
[17:58] <+Darklord> [18:56] <+Anti_Kryst> Because I rape DL on chase
[17:58] <+Deskari> so
[17:58] <+Darklord> oh noes
[17:58] <+Deskari> oh nos
[17:58] <+Darklord> I said ucan is a way better sniper then him
06[17:58] * @Mabel waves his epeen wildly
[17:58] <+Darklord> THE HORROR
[17:59] <@Mabel> anyway, dinner
[17:59] <+Darklord> its completely obvious that that is true
[17:59] <@Mabel> i want this to still be going when i get back
[17:59] <+Anti_Kryst> Ok, so ucan is a better sniper than me... and?
[17:59] <@Mabel> or else i will be very disappoint
[17:59] <+Anti_Kryst> Whats the point? lots of people are better than others
[17:59] <+Deskari> you said he was ineffective, but we all know that is an overstatement just as most of the stuff you spout out
[17:59] <+Darklord> and, that is why sniping has come to the forefront of issues
01[17:59] <@Strife> because
[17:59] <+Darklord> because he started using it
01[17:59] <@Strife> more than one person
01[17:59] <@Strife> used it
[17:59] <+Darklord> when no one else was
[17:59] <+Anti_Kryst> because ucan is good at it....
01[17:59] <@Strife> in the same game as you
[17:59] <+Anti_Kryst> and noone else is?
[18:00] <@GReaper> guys
[18:00] <@GReaper> seriously
[18:00] <+Darklord> essentially, yes
[18:00] <+Darklord> one person with low ping starts using it
[18:00] <@GReaper> don't get all uptight over it
[18:00] <+Darklord> and shows just how much of a problem it can be
[18:00] <+Darklord> can you image filter with 15 ping using it?
[18:01] <+Darklord> or if mabel goes and spends a bit of time learning it?
Session Close: Wed Jan 12 18:01:10 2011

Session Start: Wed Jan 12 18:01:22 2011
Session Ident: #legions.beta
03[18:01] * Now talking in #legions.beta
03[18:01] * Q sets mode: +o Strife
[18:01] <+Darklord> ... greaper
[18:01] <+Darklord> that makes NO sense
[18:01] <+Ucans> This is silly
[18:01] <+Deskari> hes English, what do you expect
[18:01] <+Darklord> lets not change a float value in a script file
[18:01] <+Darklord> instead, lets go implement major systems first
[18:02] <+Darklord> because changing a single variable value takes too much time, so we should postpone it
[18:02] <+Darklord> -_-
[18:03] <@GReaper> we get sucked into hours of retweaking/testing
[18:03] <+Anti_Kryst> You guys realize your trying to balance or remove a weapon based off of 1 person
[18:03] <+Deskari> sounds like you guys were already sucked in
[18:03] <@GReaper> or shoving updated values without testing, and guys being pissed off
[18:04] <@GReaper> and having to revert changes back, or spend more time tweaking
[18:05] <+Anti_Kryst> Happy medium
[18:05] <@Un-2> fucking pansies need to learn to dodge
[18:05] <+Darklord> dodge hitscan
[18:05] <+Darklord> good plan
[18:05] <+Ucans> SMASH LEFT AND RIGHT
[18:05] <@Un-2> i grew up with outlaw sniping me
[18:05] <@Un-2> i can tell when they are going to shoot most of the time
[18:05] <+Deskari> yes, thats how they do it in other games
[18:05] <+Anti_Kryst> You guys realize how much more difficult it is to hit ppl who dodge?
[18:05] <@Un-2> by the end of the pug i was focusing on ucan during standoffs
[18:06] <@Un-2> dropped his effectiveness loads imo
[18:06] <+Ucans> Even with 15 ping, you need skill you hit cappers and especially people who dodge
[18:06] <+Anti_Kryst> Mabel, DL, use hornet, use outrider in a pug or pub with me some time. Let me see how OP it is
03[18:06] * Un-2 is now known as Un-Known
[18:07] <+Anti_Kryst> There are strats to counter act a sniper
[18:07] <+Anti_Kryst> noone fucking wants to try it
[18:07] <+Ucans> Nerf it before trying to adapt to a sniper
[18:07] <+Anti_Kryst> oh god its been a week
[18:07] <+Anti_Kryst> lets not try
[18:08] <+Ucans> Lets just keep running front routes and not focusing an LO o the sniper
[18:08] <+Ucans> Not trying to dodge
[18:08] <+Ucans> Or escort
[18:09] <+Anti_Kryst> We have played quite a few pugs where we LOST with ucan/me sniping
[18:09] <@Mabel> i'm back
[18:09] <@Mabel> it is still going
[18:09] <+Anti_Kryst> because of escorts, focusing
[18:09] <+Anti_Kryst> ect.
[18:09] <@Mabel> FROM ME
[18:09] <+Anti_Kryst> NO
[18:09] <@Mabel> TWENTY MINUTES AGO
[18:09] <@Mabel> [18:47:36] <@Mabel> i'm unconvinced it's broken
[18:09] <+Anti_Kryst> you were on some yes
[18:09] <+Anti_Kryst> but not all
[18:09] <@Mabel> I AM TOTALLY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS ARGUMENT
[18:09] <+Anti_Kryst> Ok I understand
[18:09] <@Mabel> you're not making a point to me
[18:10] <@Mabel> apparently you want me to be
[18:10] <+Darklord> It is just stunning how last night
[18:10] <@Mabel> gorge
[18:10] <+Darklord> EVERYONE was laughing about how broken the sniper was
[18:10] <@Mabel> srs
[18:10] <+Darklord> EVERYONE
[18:10] <+Darklord> it was just silly
[18:10] <@Mabel> on gorge
[18:10] <+Darklord> and yet today
[18:10] <@Mabel> srs
[18:10] <+Darklord> magically
[18:10] <+Anti_Kryst> Because they couldnt COUNTER ACT a sniper position
[18:10] <+Darklord> you don't fucking remember
[18:10] <+Ucans> No, 4 snipers on defence is broken
[18:10] <+Darklord> 2
[18:10] <+Ucans> We're obviously not going to do that
[18:10] <@Mabel> today gorge is still stupid
[18:10] <@Un-Known> where is my core/gorge server
[18:11] <+Darklord> it was 2 snipers, one who doesn't frequently use it
[18:11] <+Darklord> sigh
[18:11] <+Darklord> I don't fucking care
[18:11] <@Mabel> brb ragetrain
[18:11] <+Darklord> you will realize eventually
[18:11] <+Darklord> how stupid it is
[18:11] <+Ucans> I'm a fucking outrider
[18:11] <+Ucans> shoot me
[18:11] <+Ucans> twice
[18:11] <+Anti_Kryst> and he has no splash
[18:11] <+Anti_Kryst> no flag play
[18:12] <+Anti_Kryst> easy to focus
[18:12] <+Anti_Kryst> I get raped by a chain and gernade
[18:12] <+Anti_Kryst> if i dont MA
[18:12] <+Ucans> Play a pug where you have an actually counter to s niper
[18:12] <+Ucans> Then see how ineffective i am
[18:12] <+Ucans> then complain if you dont like it
[18:13] <+Anti_Kryst> not only that
[18:13] <+Anti_Kryst> but more than ucan and I can snipe
[18:13] <+Anti_Kryst> where are the other teams snipers?
[18:13] <+Anti_Kryst> why can they not snipe me midfield with a outrider sniper?
[18:13] <+Anti_Kryst> Im bowl partying your chasers and cappers
[18:13] <+Anti_Kryst> have him fucking shoot me
[18:14] <+Ucans> No kryst
[18:14] <+Anti_Kryst> Its not like im LO gonna egrab
[18:14] <+Ucans> its better to ignore the snipers
[18:14] <+Ucans> and nerf them instead
[18:14] <@Mabel> sniperjerk
[18:14] <@Mabel> imo
[18:14] <+Anti_Kryst> So im harrassing a base
[18:14] <+Anti_Kryst> same as mabel does so well
[18:14] <+Anti_Kryst> run hide shoot
[18:14] <@Mabel> all of you are so angry
[18:15] <+Anti_Kryst> Things gets defensive yes
[18:15] <+Deskari> Im pretty sure DL is the angriest here
[18:15] <+Deskari> he is the LORD OF DARKNESS afterall
[18:15] <@Mabel> i'm pretty sure that everybody is worked up
[18:15] <@Mabel> 8x more than they need to be
[18:15] <+Deskari> I love watching the drama
[18:15] <@Mabel> we were lolling in dev
[18:15] <@Mabel> trufax
[18:16] <@Mabel> except daph
[18:16] <@Mabel> he said it was too painful to watch
[18:16] <+Anti_Kryst> I agree people are worked up, because of things that were said or threatended without a consensus
[18:16] <+Anti_Kryst> Testers I think would like to have some sort of say in the direction things go
[18:16] <+Anti_Kryst> even tho we arent devs
[18:16] <@Mabel> i said i was going to make it a ballistic projectile with a linear falloff starting from the gun
[18:16] <+Anti_Kryst> or what else are we here for
[18:16] <@Mabel> and you listened
[18:17] <@Mabel> srs
[18:17] <+Anti_Kryst> I was hearing out your changes yes
[18:17] <@Mabel> no
[18:17] <@Mabel> that's
[18:17] <@Mabel> that's ridiculous
[18:17] <+Anti_Kryst> and even offered suggestions
[18:17] <+Anti_Kryst> wah?
[18:18] <@Mabel> ballistic?
[18:18] <@Mabel> like falls over distance?
[18:18] <@Mabel> and linear falloff starting 0 meters instead of 500?
[18:18] <@Mabel> that's almost as ridiculous as ballistic projectiles
[18:19] <@Mabel> i actually laughed out loud when i thought of that
[18:19] <@Mabel> it's so ridiculous
[18:20] <+Deskari> So I have a question...
[18:20] <+Deskari> why is DL lead tester?
[18:20] <@Mabel> if you have a problem with staffing
[18:20] <@Mabel> bring it up with me greaper or bugs
[18:21] <@Mabel> not in a public channel
[18:21] <@Mabel> you're pts
[18:21] <@Mabel> and while we may giggle at the flamewar
[18:21] <@Mabel> no need for that in public channels
[18:21] <@Mabel> at all
01[18:21] <@Strife> public channel?
[18:21] <+Ucans> PRIVATE TESTERS
[18:21] <+Ucans> PRIVATE
[18:21] <@Mabel> as opposed to a private session between two people
[18:21] <@Mabel> you know exactly what i meant, don't be twats
03[18:22] * Outlawl (~Clausewit@c-98-233-97-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #legions.beta
03[18:22] * Q sets mode: +o Outlawl
[18:22] <+Anti_Kryst> A few of us have hard our concerns
[18:22] <@Mabel> *we* control the game balance
01[18:22] <@Strife> i wasn't aware
[18:22] <@Outlawl> Then whys there a PT group
[18:22] <@Mabel> not seymour, not dl, us
[18:22] <@Mabel> why? because we need people to test our changes
[18:23] <@Outlawl> But you don't listen
[18:23] <@Outlawl> so
[18:23] <@Mabel> i'm not listening?
01[18:23] <@Strife> telling us that DL has no influence on the changes is ludicrous
01[18:23] <@Strife> brb laughing
[18:23] <@Mabel> not more than any of you
[18:23] <@Outlawl> oh?
[18:23] <@Mabel> i don't know how you think we work, i think the guns are okay atm
[18:23] <@Mabel> the balance is tetchy
[18:24] <@Outlawl> Mabel remember when we did that pug with the changed res[awn times mabe
[18:24] <@Outlawl> do you remember?
[18:24] <@Mabel> there isn't enough content to gauge
[18:24] <@Mabel> right
[18:24] <@Mabel> that was chosen
[18:24] <@Mabel> ahead of time
[18:24] <@Mabel> we played with 5
[18:24] <@Outlawl> do you remember how we changed the respawn times 5 minutes into the game upon the request of dl?
[18:24] <@Outlawl> do you?
[18:24] <@Mabel> and we chose something closer to 3
[18:24] <@Outlawl> I do
[18:24] <@Outlawl> WE?!
[18:24] <@Mabel> i did it for a gigogle
[18:24] <@Outlawl> WHEN DID WE?!
[18:24] <@Mabel> the development team?
[18:24] <@Mabel> really?
[18:24] <@Outlawl> Oh
[18:24] <@Outlawl> you**
[18:25] <@Mabel> it was chosen by the dev team ahead of time
[18:25] <@Outlawl> So mabel darklord bugs and greaper
[18:25] <@Mabel> dl isn't part of the dev team
[18:25] <@Mabel> he's never in the channel
01[18:25] <@Strife> lol
[18:25] <@Mabel> he's staff
[18:25] <@Outlawl> Oh?
01[18:25] <@Strife> lol
[18:25] <@Outlawl> Really?
[18:25] <@Mabel> err
[18:25] <@Outlawl> So he's never in "coders"
[18:25] <@Outlawl> He's never in there
02[18:25] * @Apcizzle (~Apcizzle@24-177-85-232.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout)
01[18:25] <@Strife> nope
[18:26] <@Mabel> he really doesn't have any input in balance changes
[18:26] <@Outlawl> So wait
[18:26] <@Outlawl> wait
01[18:26] <@Strife> that's so untrue
[18:26] <@Mabel> he talks little enough that i could actually forget
[18:26] <@Outlawl> where did you get the idea that the sniper was op
[18:26] <+Ucans> lololol
[18:26] <@Mabel> i didn't
[18:26] <@Outlawl> where did you get the idea that the sniper was op
[18:26] <+Deskari> perhaps you should pick a more involved lead tester
[18:26] <@Mabel> [18:49:29] <@Mabel> but i'm not convinced it's broken atm
[18:26] <+Anti_Kryst> I have never heard of so many sniper complaints until this week
[18:26] <+Anti_Kryst> and I can only point at 1 person
01[18:26] <@Strife> dl started this sniper qq bandwagon and it will be inexorably nerfed into the ground because of that
[18:27] <@Mabel> i didn't say it was op this iteration
[18:27] <@Mabel> ever
[18:27] <+Anti_Kryst> Right
[18:27] <@Mabel> i don't have enough data to go either way
[18:27] <@Outlawl> <@Mabel> i'm doing it
[18:27] <@Outlawl> <@Mabel> i'm making it a projectile
[18:27] <@Outlawl> <@Mabel> fuck you all
[18:27] <@Outlawl> <@Mabel> fuck your hitscan
[18:27] <@Outlawl> <@Mabel> also
[18:27] <@Outlawl> <@Mabel> linear falloff of damage
[18:27] <@Outlawl> <@Mabel> STARTING AT YOUR GUN
[18:27] <@Outlawl> Eh?
01[18:27] <@Strife> you're playing neutral so that you can shrug us off
[18:27] <+Ucans> You have so many people saying it isnt overpowered
[18:27] <@Mabel> do i need <troll> tags?
[18:27] <+Anti_Kryst> people take that serious
[18:27] <+Ucans> and darklord and a couple others saying it is
[18:28] <@Mabel> i also said i'd make it charge
[18:28] <@Mabel> and use energy
[18:28] <@Mabel> at the same time
[18:28] <@Outlawl> Why
[18:28] <@Mabel> sorry you took it seriously, i'm not just playing this one off as neutral
[18:29] <@Mabel> i think that we've had quite a few broken games recently
[18:29] <@Outlawl> "neutral"
[18:29] <@Mabel> strife said it
01[18:29] <@Strife> i can scroll up and quote all of your neutrality
[18:29] <@Outlawl> Wait
[18:29] <@Outlawl> Another question
[18:29] <@Mabel> yes, because i honestly am not even thinking of touching the sniper
[18:29] <@Mabel> right now
[18:29] <@Mabel> there are other, more important, things
[18:30] <@Outlawl> what was the reasoning behind the removal of splash
03[18:30] * Apcizzle (~Apcizzle@24-177-85-232.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) has joined #legions.beta
03[18:30] * Q sets mode: +o Apcizzle
[18:30] <@Outlawl> what though process was put into that
[18:30] <@Outlawl> if you don't mind me asking
[18:30] <@Outlawl> because I don't remember there being ANY
[18:30] <@Mabel> splash has always been the size of a small moon
[18:30] <@Mabel> i always thought it was a bit ridiculous
[18:30] <@Outlawl> Huh
[18:30] <+Darklord> mabel has complete control over everything, essentially
[18:31] <@Outlawl> Legend has it greaper complained after a pug and then all of a sudden it was changed
[18:31] <@Mabel> the modified curve made duelling work quite a bit better
[18:31] <@Mabel> in my opinion
[18:31] <+Anti_Kryst> But if mabel is stupid enough with the power he has, the game dies
[18:31] <+Anti_Kryst> Not saying mabel would do stupid stuff "
[18:31] <@Mabel> i did a silly thing by pushing it to live without doing significant testing first
[18:32] <@SeymourGore> i gave mabel such grief over that
[18:32] <@Outlawl> IT'S OK
[18:32] <@Outlawl> HE DOESN'T LISTEN
[18:32] <@Outlawl> MABEL DO WHAT MABEL WANT
[18:32] <@Outlawl> Now
[18:32] <+Darklord> also
[18:32] <+Darklord> [19:20] <+Deskari> why is DL lead tester?
[18:32] <@Mabel> :|
[18:32] <+Darklord> fuck you desk
[18:32] <@Outlawl> Let me point out somethign thats bugging me for the longest point of time
[18:32] <@Outlawl> that
[18:32] <+Deskari> lol
[18:32] <+Darklord> I didn't ask for that, or want to do it
01[18:32] <@Strife> that's a good point dl
[18:32] <@Mabel> oy
[18:32] <+Deskari> then dont
[18:33] <@Mabel> he's doing us a fucking favor alright
[18:33] <+Darklord> I got roped into doing it because no one else stepped up or was remotely qualified
[18:33] <@Outlawl> Oh
[18:33] <@Mabel> someone needs to schedule tests
[18:33] <@Outlawl> He's really leading us
[18:33] <@Mabel> that's all he does atm
01[18:33] <@Strife> qualified
[18:33] <@Outlawl> WAIT
01[18:33] <@Strife> as in
[18:33] <@Outlawl> WAIT
[18:33] <@Outlawl> WAIT
[18:33] <@Outlawl> WAIT
[18:33] <@Outlawl> WAIT
[18:33] <@Outlawl> STOP
[18:33] <@Mabel> good
[18:33] <@Outlawl> STOP THE FUCKING PRESS
[18:33] <@Mabel> lord
[18:33] <@Outlawl> qaulified?!
[18:33] <@Outlawl> WAULIFIED
[18:33] <@Outlawl> REALLY
[18:33] <@Outlawl> ok
[18:33] <@Mabel> yes
[18:33] <@Mabel> and if you can't calm the fuck down
[18:33] <@Outlawl> You played all but 5 or 6 games dl
[18:33] <@Outlawl> CM was around for like 2 or so months
[18:33] <+Anti_Kryst> Fixious all the sudden left, and DL came in... where was the vote?
[18:33] <+Darklord> what the fuck do games have to do with anything
[18:33] <@Mabel> and act like something other than an internet tard
[18:34] <@Mabel> calm
[18:34] <@Outlawl> We barely touched comp
[18:34] <@Mabel> the
[18:34] <@Mabel> fuck down
[18:34] <@Outlawl> personality?
[18:34] <@Outlawl> Really?
[18:34] <@Mabel> calm down
[18:34] <@Mabel> yes
[18:34] <@Outlawl> Darklord is a people person?
[18:34] <@Outlawl> really?
[18:34] <@Mabel> i don't feel like wading through what you're doing right now
[18:34] <+Darklord> qualified = fucking knowning how to program
[18:34] <@Outlawl> :|
[18:34] <+Darklord> understanding technical shit
[18:34] <@Mabel> express yourself cleanly
[18:34] <@Mabel> stop
[18:34] <+Darklord> duh
[18:34] <+Darklord> dear god
[18:34] <@Outlawl> I am
[18:34] <@Mabel> both of you
[18:34] <@Mabel> outlaw
[18:34] <@Outlawl> I'm being quite clean
[18:34] <+Deskari> shit sounds very technical
[18:34] <@Mabel> you know what i mean
[18:34] <@Outlawl> So
[18:34] <@Outlawl> you can code
[18:34] <@Mabel> all of you are being ridiculous
[18:35] <@Mabel> right now
[18:35] <@Outlawl> Therefore you should be lead pt
[18:35] <@Mabel> stop arguing with him
[18:35] <+Darklord> you want to do it? go ahead
[18:35] <@Mabel> both of you
[18:35] <@Outlawl> Thats the only positive I know
[18:35] <@Mabel> fucking stop
[18:35] <@Mabel> like i said
[18:35] <@Outlawl> Kryst do it
[18:35] <@Outlawl> Thats what I say
[18:35] <+Anti_Kryst> LOL
[18:35] <@Mabel> if you want to talk about the staffing or understand the positions
[18:35] <+Ucans> Kryst
01[18:35] <@Strife> seconded
[18:35] <@Mabel> and what they do
[18:35] <@Outlawl> He's played more comp than both of you combined
01[18:35] <@Strife> thirded
[18:36] <@Mabel> you can ask
[18:36] <@Outlawl> He can talk to people
[18:36] <+Ucans> Kryst is a good people person
[18:36] <@Outlawl> PEOPLE LIKE HIM
[18:36] <+Ucans> He's very eloquent
[18:36] <+only1Bravo> I don't see the correlation between comp experience and qualifications as test lead
[18:36] <+Anti_Kryst> ohgod
[18:36] <+only1Bravo> df has done everything asked of him
[18:36] <+only1Bravo> as a favor
[18:36] <@Mabel> dev positions aren't up for vote for a reason guys
[18:36] <@Mabel> i seriously can't let you continue to be pts if you're going to make internal drama like this
[18:37] <@Mabel> we're not capable
[18:37] <@SeymourGore> seymour's walked into a hornets nest :-/
[18:37] <@Outlawl> [19:36] <+only1Bravo> I don't see the correlation between comp experience and qualifications as test lead
[18:37] <@Mabel> we can't spend our time trying to handle you people when you act like this
[18:37] <@Outlawl> Wait
[18:37] <@Outlawl> wait
01[18:37] <@Strife> dude
[18:37] <@Outlawl> It's game experience
[18:37] <@Mabel> i always said that you need to leave that legions
[18:37] <@Mabel> bullshit
[18:37] <@Mabel> at the door
[18:37] <+Anti_Kryst> I think there is some built up tension being expressed
[18:37] <@Mabel> and you're leaking it everywhere in this channel
[18:37] <@Outlawl> Are you trying to say thats not relevant
[18:37] <+Anti_Kryst> is why its so much drama
[18:37] <@Mabel> no
[18:37] <@Mabel> i'm saying that you need to act like adults and not a bunch of internet tards
[18:38] <@Mabel> seriously
[18:38] <@Outlawl> leaking?!
[18:38] <+only1Bravo> df has no say on anything development related... all he does is schedule pt stuff
[18:38] <@Outlawl> where is this leaking?!
[18:38] <@Outlawl> Show me where we're leaking
[18:38] <+only1Bravo> so his comp experience means nothing
[18:38] <@Mabel> the legions crap where you're all a bunch of overly hostile people peeing on eachother
[18:38] <@Mabel> is like
[18:38] <@Mabel> overflowing in this room
[18:38] <@Mabel> we said when we let you in
[18:39] <@Mabel> that you can't act like you're doing
[18:39] <@Mabel> right now
[18:39] <@Outlawl> Mabel
[18:39] <@Outlawl> How many times have you said X is stupid
[18:39] <@Mabel> because we can't deal with this
[18:39] <@Outlawl> or we're not doing Y because it's retarded
[18:39] <@Outlawl> Don't say you haven't
[18:39] <@Outlawl> because we've all seen it
[18:40] <@Outlawl> Now do you think thats nuetral?
[18:40] <@Outlawl> Do you think thats statement is really something that promotes beneficial attitudes
[18:41] <@Mabel> if you have a problem like this you can bring it up
[18:41] <@Mabel> in private
01[18:41] <@Strife> so
[18:41] <+Anti_Kryst> So is there a system that needs to be in place? More then what it is?
[18:41] <@Outlawl> private
[18:41] <@Outlawl> testers
01[18:41] <@Strife> dl can be biased and angry but we can't?
[18:41] <@Mabel> preferably with either bugs or the person that is in question
[18:41] <@Outlawl> private.testers
[18:41] <@Mabel> not
[18:41] <@Outlawl> I'm so lost
[18:41] <@Mabel> in private
[18:41] <@Mabel> like not in front of other people
[18:41] <+Anti_Kryst> Private privatre
[18:41] <@Mabel> don't be a fucking twat
[18:41] <@Mabel> this is what i'm talking about
[18:41] <@Mabel> you know what i mean
[18:42] <@Outlawl> We're not being "twats"
[18:42] <@Mabel> i didn't say you were
[18:42] <@Outlawl> rather bringing up legitimate points that have been on all of our minds
[18:42] <@Mabel> i said that whole "THIS IS A PRIVATE CHANNEL SO IT IS PRIVATE HURR"
[18:42] <@Mabel> some things are obviously not stuff you do in a chat channel
01[18:42] <@Strife> sldkfmbnjdkfba
[18:42] <@Mabel> in front of n other people
01[18:42] <@Strife> <@Mabel> don't be a fucking twat
01[18:42] <@Strife> <@Outlawl> We're not being "twats"
01[18:42] <@Strife> <@Mabel> i didn't say you were
[18:42] <@Outlawl> [19:41] <@Mabel> don't be a fucking twat
[18:42] <@Mabel> said he was being a twat
[18:43] <@Mabel> oh ffs
[18:43] <@Outlawl> No this is a matter that deals with the WHOLE of private testers as it's several of our concerns
[18:43] <@Outlawl> therefore it should be discussed here
[18:43] <@Mabel> no arguing the difference between private channel
[18:43] <@Mabel> and 1v1
[18:43] <@Mabel> that's pointless
[18:43] <@Outlawl> This isn't arguing
[18:43] <@Outlawl> rather discussion
[18:43] <@Mabel> you know what i meant
[18:43] <@Mabel> :|
[18:43] <@SeymourGore> so... what about friday night map testing? should be fun! :-D
[18:43] <@Mabel> honestly guys
[18:43] <@Mabel> please don't bring this crap in here
[18:44] <@Mabel> we're trying to work on a project that we care about, if you have problems with other people then bring them up in private with the people in charge
[18:44] <@Mabel> not in front of everybody
[18:44] <@Mabel> i haven't gotten a single pm from anybody
[18:44] <@Outlawl> We all know whats going to happen mabel
01[18:44] <@Strife> the neutrality
[18:44] <+Ucans> Talking about changes in the testers channel doesn't seem wrong to me
[18:45] <@Mabel> it's not
[18:45] <@Outlawl> "it's ok, you just have to work with them, *[at on head*"
[18:45] <@Outlawl> Changes both in community and game
[18:45] <@Outlawl> Both are essential to the success of the game
[18:48] <+Anti_Kryst> I dont think the "testers" have felt they were included in some of the changes
[18:48] <+Anti_Kryst> which makes testers wonder why they are testers
[18:48] <+Ucans> Our opinions should have some effect on you
[18:48] <@Mabel> they do
[18:48] <+Ucans> Especially when we're trying this hard
[18:49] <+Anti_Kryst> We love the game too
01[18:49] <@Strife> it's not like we're doing this out of spite
[18:49] <+Anti_Kryst> and we want to make sure it goes in the right direction
[18:49] <@Mabel> guys
[18:49] <@Mabel> our process has been sub-standard so far
[18:49] <@Mabel> we're a bunch of people with no experience doing this kind of thing
[18:50] <@Mabel> people get paid full time and work for years to do this sorta thing
[18:50] <@Mabel> we're honestly trying pretty hard
[18:50] <@Mabel> and we've accomplished a whole lot
[18:50] <+Daphinicus> Even as a new guy, having not seen too much, I can attest fully to that
[18:50] <@Mabel> and improved the game several times faster than ia ever did
[18:50] <@Outlawl> None of us have contested that
[18:50] <@Outlawl> At all
[18:50] <@Mabel> our process was pretty shit
[18:50] <@Mabel> we're trying to change that
[18:50] <+Daphinicus> I was honestly surprised, and happily impressed, with the level of effort and behind-the-scenes stuff going on.
[18:50] <@Outlawl> None of us had ever said that you didn't do work
[18:51] <@Mabel> but none of you ever brought up anything with us as far as i know
[18:51] <@Mabel> about any of this'
[18:51] <@Mabel> and they are valid
[18:51] <@Outlawl> But just because you do the work does mean you get to do it however you want without reprecussions
[18:51] <@Mabel> but they need to be done in the proper channels
[18:51] <+Daphinicus> Another thing to note...
[18:51] <@Mabel> slinging shit like you do
[18:51] <@Mabel> in this channel
[18:51] <@Mabel> that's unacceptable
[18:51] <+Anti_Kryst> A lot of us found it pointless to bring anything up
[18:51] <@Mabel> we can't have that sort of thing happening
01[18:51] <@Strife> <@Mabel> but they need to be done in the proper channels
[18:51] <+Daphinicus> Is that is IS inappropriate to believe that as a tester, you have ANY more say than anyone else.
[18:52] <@Mabel> strife
[18:52] <+Daphinicus> You get a say EARLIER
01[18:52] <@Strife> because we were forward with what we see is wrong
01[18:52] <@Strife> it's all of a sudden wrong to talk in here
[18:52] <@Mabel> i didn't say that
[18:52] <@Mabel> i said that if you have problems with people
[18:52] <@Outlawl> You essentially are
[18:52] <@Mabel> please bring them up with the leads
01[18:52] <@Strife> aside from that
[18:52] <@Outlawl> The topic by nature puts you on the hot seat
[18:52] <@Mabel> not in front of the people you have a problem with
[18:52] <@Mabel> in a channel
[18:52] <@Mabel> with a bunch of other people
[18:52] <@Mabel> i am willing to talk and explain these things
[18:52] <@Outlawl> so of course it needs to be discussed in here not in pms
01[18:53] <@Strife> the discussion stemmed from a comment on the sniper
01[18:53] <@Strife> on the balance of it
[18:53] <@Outlawl> it's a change that effects every part of this group
[18:53] <+Ucans> We've pretty much all had a say in this conversation
[18:53] <@Mabel> i was just asking that you do it in private so we can do it calmly with the least amount of ridiculously overcharged emotion possible
[18:53] <@Outlawl>  ridiculously overcharged emotion possible
[18:53] <@Outlawl> thats not nuetral in the least
[18:54] <@Outlawl> At all
[18:54] <@Outlawl> Double standard eh?
01[18:54] <@Strife> the lead tester is pretty much recognized for his irrational rage
[18:54] <@Mabel> again
[18:54] <+Daphinicus> I don't get it. Mabe's talking about avoiding backbiting and talking about other PEOPLE in public, not the game.
01[18:54] <@Strife> the double standard bs
[18:55] <+Daphinicus> Why don't we take this to TS3?
[18:55] <@Outlawl> No no
[18:55] <@Outlawl> Have it here
[18:55] <+Daphinicus> I think the typing and the confusion of IRC is getting in the way of clear communication
[18:55] <@Outlawl> Somewhere where we can reference it
01[18:55] <@Strife> there's no difference
[18:55] <@Outlawl> No I think it's fine here
[18:55] <@Mabel> you can record ts3
[18:55] <@Mabel> there is
01[18:55] <@Strife> between talking in ts3
01[18:55] <@Strife> or here
01[18:55] <@Strife> it's the same people
01[18:55] <@Strife> in both places
[18:55] <@Mabel> people act much less like idiots on vent than they do in text
[18:55] <+Deskari> Im pretty sure IRC would provide clearer communications than a bunch a voices shooting at eachother
[18:55] <@Outlawl> Personal opinion
[18:56] <@Outlawl> I mean I don't
[18:56] <+Daphinicus> Indeed. It's easier to be clear-headed when you're having a vocal conversaion
[18:56] <@Outlawl> I type as though you're right next to me
[18:56] <+Daphinicus> But okay, we wanna keep it here, fine.
[18:56] <@Mabel> voice communication is far more reasonable with anybody, it's just how the human mind works
[18:56] <@Mabel> i'd rather do this in ts3
01[18:56] <@Strife> you should know by now that we do act like this
[18:56] <+Daphinicus> Now, I didn't come into this from the start, and I missed some stuff here and there.
[18:56] <+Daphinicus> But I am noticing...
[18:56] <@Mabel> i know, but it's not crazy to ask you guys to try and act a little more serious when you're in l.b
[18:57] <+Daphinicus> That the quoting of other people is being used out of context. That ain't good.
01[18:57] <@Strife> how
[18:57] <@Outlawl> Daph, if you don't mind me asking
[18:57] <+Daphinicus> Fire away.
[18:57] <@Outlawl> How did you become a Dev
[18:57] <@Outlawl> Thanks by the way
[18:57] <+Deskari> alotta blowjobs
[18:58] <+Daphinicus> I applied.
[18:58] <+Daphinicus> I submitted my resume
[18:58] <@Outlawl> Any previous legions experience?
[18:58] <+Daphinicus> I have a bachelor's degree in game development from WPI. A degree in Professional Writing as well.
[18:58] <+Daphinicus> And yes
[18:58] <@Mabel> are you serious right now?
[18:58] <@Outlawl> No I'm joking
[18:58] <+Daphinicus> I've played FPS+Z games since Outwars. Have you?
[18:59] <@Outlawl> I wouldn't be asking if I wasn't
[18:59] <+Daphinicus> I'm on the team as a writer
[18:59] <@Outlawl> I have
[18:59] <@Outlawl> PLayed tribes for about 3 years
[18:59] <@Outlawl> legions since it's inception
[18:59] <+Daphinicus> Another Outwars player? Epic!
01[18:59] <@Strife> anyway
01[19:00] <@Strife> back to the discussion
01[19:00] <@Strife> enouh mediation
01[19:00] <@Strife> enough*
[19:00] <+Daphinicus> At any rate...
[19:00] <+Daphinicus> There's a marked difference...
[19:00] <+Daphinicus> between discussing other individuals in a public forum, and discussing game mechanics.
[19:00] <+Daphinicus> One is backbiting. The other's your job as a PT.
01[19:00] <@Strife> they are
01[19:00] <@Strife> relevant
01[19:00] <@Strife> in this case
01[19:00] <@Strife> otherwise they would not have been brought up
[19:00] <@Outlawl> They are both something that impacts the group as a whole
[19:01] <@Outlawl> the participants and the outcome
[19:01] <+Daphinicus> Proper channels, folks. If you want to approach Bugs as a group, that's cool
[19:01] <@GReaper> oh dear :p
01[19:01] <@Strife> yeah
[19:01] <@Outlawl> Whats bugs going to do?
[19:02] <+Daphinicus> He's the lead.
[19:02] <@Outlawl> that you can't
[19:02] <+Daphinicus> I'm not the lead.
[19:02] <+Daphinicus> Nor is Mabe.
01[19:02] <@Strife> the original problem wasn't the person, it was the change
[19:02] <+Daphinicus> Bugs is.
[19:02] <@Outlawl> Greaper and mabes
01[19:02] <@Strife> or
01[19:02] <@Strife> the comment on something that needs to be changed
01[19:02] <@Strife> rather
[19:02] <@Outlawl> Oh so bugs is more important than them
[19:02] <+Daphinicus> Yes.
[19:02] <+Daphinicus> Yes he is.
[19:02] <@GReaper> dare i ask what the issue is now?
[19:02] <+Daphinicus> He's the lead.
[19:02] <+Deskari> Why are you all talking to Daph?  Go home, boy,  Heres your squeaky toy.  Thats a good Daph, you like your belly rubbed dontcha?  Dontcha, boy? good boy.
[19:03] <@Mabel> :|
[19:03] <@Outlawl> Now don't act like tittle differentiates the importance of their efforts
[19:03] <@Outlawl> title*
[19:03] <@GReaper> there was a bunch of sniper discussion over an hour ago
[19:03] <@GReaper> and now, i don't know ;p
[19:03] <+Daphinicus> I'm not. I'm saying that, in matters of personnel, bugs has supreme authority.
[19:03] <@Outlawl> Why?
[19:03] <@Outlawl> Why was there in the first place?
[19:04] <@Outlawl> Thats what stemmed this argument
[19:04] <@Outlawl> one of the important members of the group said it was OP therefore it is
03[19:04] * Evil-Twat (raimo.heik@jauhe.lnet.fi) has joined #legions.beta
[19:04] <@Mabel> and then i said
03[19:04] * Q sets mode: +v Evil-Twat
[19:04] <@Mabel> several times that nobody who works on the balance
[19:04] <@Mabel> thinks that it's op right now
[19:04] <@GReaper> what were you expecting him to do, nerf it by the weekend or something?
[19:04] <@Mabel> and then i was ignored and you people continued
01[19:05] <@Strife> lol
01[19:05] <@Strife> yeah
01[19:05] <@Strife> nothing will come of what dl said
[19:05] <@Outlawl> Yeah actually
01[19:05] <@Strife> nothing at all
01[19:05] <@Strife> my amazing foresight and past experience with legions tells me this
[19:05] <@Mabel> i'm working on other things
[19:05] <@Outlawl> !
[19:05] <@Outlawl> another point
[19:06] <+Ucans> Let the good people be effective
[19:06] <@Outlawl> Why can't we know whats going on in the works
[19:06] <@Mabel> i said that ucan
[19:06] <+Daphinicus> You're not on the dev team.
[19:06] <+Daphinicus> You're testers.
[19:06] <@Mabel> why can't we have everybody in the loop?
[19:06] <+Ucans> Let the community adapt to the good people
[19:06] <@Outlawl> Then whats our point
[19:06] <@Outlawl> we have no say
[19:06] <+Daphinicus> To test.
[19:06] <@Mabel> you do
[19:06] <@Outlawl> to test
[19:06] <+Ucans> They why tell me that you're going to nerf it?
[19:06] <@Mabel> early feedback
[19:06] <@Outlawl> to agree
[19:06] <+Ucans> And then agree with us?
[19:06] <+Daphinicus> early feedback
[19:06] <@GReaper> to test upcoming content
[19:06] <+Daphinicus> EARLY
[19:06] <@Mabel> is the absolute most important feedback
[19:06] <@Mabel> [early feedback is by far the most important feedback
[19:07] <+Deskari> oh you dropped your squeaky toy again, Daph.  Oh whats this?  you brought me the newspaper?  Heres a treat.
[19:07] <@Outlawl> When have you ever listened?
03[19:07] * Mabel sets mode: +b *!*@108.28.89.209
03[19:07] * Deskari was kicked by Mabel (Alright you're fucking gone)
[19:07] <@Outlawl> And actually listened
[19:07] <+Daphinicus> Desk, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be angry or amused. You mind clarifying?
[19:07] <@Outlawl> I remember we had the conversation about the Respawn times
[19:07] <@Outlawl> worked for about a day or two
[19:07] <@Outlawl> DL complained
[19:07] <@Outlawl> went back to 2.5
[19:08] <@Mabel> it's 3.25 now
[19:08] <+Daphinicus> Yeah... it's not 2.5 anymore.
[19:08] <+Daphinicus> And lots of folks didn't like it
[19:08] <+Daphinicus> And talked about it.
[19:08] <@Outlawl> But see
[19:08] <@Outlawl> thats the point
[19:08] <+Daphinicus> That was something we didn't private test.
[19:08] <@Outlawl> who deemed it broken
[19:08] <@Outlawl> or who deemed it needed to be shortened
[19:08] <@Outlawl> None of us did
[19:08] <@Mabel> it was just that way from development
[19:08] <@Mabel> it was never explicitly shortened
[19:08] <@Outlawl> I don't think it was ever a problem up until now
[19:09] <@Outlawl> 4->2.5
[19:09] <+Anti_Kryst> Agree
[19:09] <@Mabel> it was just that way because that was honestly the first number i could remember
[19:09] <+Daphinicus> Outlawl, the dev team doesn't exist to enact the whims of the private testers.
[19:09] <@Mabel> and i forgot to change it
[19:09] <@Outlawl> Obviously
[19:09] <@Outlawl> then it would be called transparent developmenrt
[19:09] <+Anti_Kryst> No, but before changes like that occure
[19:09] <+Anti_Kryst> let us test them
[19:09] <+Daphinicus> This ain't an open-source project.
[19:09] <+Darklord> you guys are remembering this wrong
[19:09] <+Darklord> mabel changed it to 5 seconds
[19:09] <+Darklord> for a PU
[19:09] <+Darklord> it was stupid and silly
[19:09] <@GReaper> there were things in the game which weren't quite the same as IA
[19:09] <@GReaper> some were intentional
[19:10] <+Darklord> I told him to fix it, as were others
[19:10] <@GReaper> some were just forgotten
[19:10] <+Darklord> and he did
[19:10] <+Darklord> story over
[19:10] <@Outlawl> [20:09] <+Darklord> it was stupid and silly
[19:10] <@Outlawl> thank you
[19:10] <@GReaper> and some were just on the todo list for a later time
[19:10] <@Outlawl> MABELINE
[19:10] <@Outlawl> PREACHER OF ALL THAT IS NUETRAL
[19:10] <@Outlawl> [20:09] <+Darklord> it was stupid and silly
[19:10] <@Mabel> totally, just did it because dl said it
[19:10] <@Mabel> come on
[19:10] <@Outlawl> ASSESS THIS
[19:10] <+Darklord> yes
[19:10] <+Darklord> clearly a FIVE SECOND respawn time
[19:10] <+Darklord> is not silly
[19:10] <@Mabel> if you think i just do things at dl's whim you're trying to get angry
[19:10] <+Daphinicus> I agree, it was stupid and silly.
[19:10] <@Outlawl> Stupid and silly is a good argument
[19:10] <@Outlawl> thats really good
[19:10] <@Mabel> most of the dev team felt that 5 was too high
[19:11] <+Darklord> of come the fuck on outlaw
[19:11] <+Darklord> do I need to go into how that effects the game?
[19:11] <+Darklord> really?
[19:11] <@Outlawl> I mean thats your opinion
[19:11] <+Darklord> you know perfectly well that I can
[19:11] <@Outlawl> We all know how it does
[19:11] <+Darklord> exactly
[19:11] <+Daphinicus> It was much of the devs' opinions as well.
[19:11] <@Mabel> guys
[19:11] <+Darklord> which is why I can quite easily say stupid and silly for that
[19:11] <@Outlawl> and we came to a conclusion in the thread that it needed to be raised
[19:11] <@GReaper> dare i ask what are we allowed to change in the game?
[19:11] <@Outlawl> Rather
[19:11] <@Mabel> and i raised it
[19:11] <+Daphinicus> it WAS raised. To 3.25.
[19:11] <@GReaper> or do all approvals need to go through Outlawl?
[19:11] <@Outlawl> thats your opinion that its silly and stupid
[19:11] <@Mabel> it was raised from 2.5 t release to 3.25
[19:11] <@Mabel> after discussion
[19:12] <@Mabel> not about dl
[19:12] <+Anti_Kryst> Why was it changed from the setting that IA had it from? I recall mabel saying "defense" need a buff, but I dont recall anyone saying so
[19:12] <@Outlawl> MABEL IS ALWAYS RIGHT
[19:12] <@Outlawl> NEIN
[19:12] <+Darklord> no one else has ever said defense needs a buff?
[19:12] <@Mabel> :|
[19:12] <+Darklord> really?
[19:12] <@Outlawl> [20:12] <+Darklord> no one else has ever said defense needs a buff?
[19:12] <@Outlawl> [20:12] <@Mabel> :|
[19:12] <@Outlawl> There we go
[19:12] <@Outlawl> This is why theres conversation
[19:12] <+Anti_Kryst> I have never heard ANYONE ever in my career of legions saying respawn timers need adjusted
[19:12] <+Anti_Kryst> honest truth
[19:13] <@Mabel> right
[19:13] <+Ucans> snipers are good defence buff
[19:13] <@Outlawl> one persons view cannot be generalized as the whole publics view
[19:13] <+Ucans> ./teehee
[19:13] <@Mabel> yeah well kryst
[19:13] <@Mabel> nobody said the netcode needed to be fixed either
[19:13] <@Mabel> that's a stupid argument
[19:13] <@Outlawl> Because YOU think it's a good idea, doesn't mean it is
[19:13] <@Outlawl> Don't be coy
[19:14] <+Anti_Kryst> Netcode is more technical then a respawn timer
[19:14] <+Anti_Kryst> I just dont recall people complaining about it
[19:14] <@Outlawl> Netcode is something that affects everyone beneficially
[19:14] <@Mabel> i already said
[19:14] <@Mabel> i set it to 2.5 by accident
[19:14] <@Outlawl> Buffing/nerfing respawn time
[19:14] <@Outlawl> not so much
[19:14] <@Mabel> it was that at release
03[19:14] * AFireInAsa (~Fire@c-68-44-140-196.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #legions.beta
03[19:14] * Q sets mode: +v AFireInAsa
[19:14] <@Mabel> we changed it more towards what it was on ia
[19:14] <+Evil-Twat> harro gaize
[19:14] <@Mabel> and we're seeing how it works
[19:15] <@Mabel> so you attacking me
[19:15] <@Mabel> about this
[19:15] <@Outlawl> Attacking?
[19:15] <@Mabel> is getting ridiculous
[19:15] <@Outlawl> Really?
[19:15] <+Evil-Twat> MABEL MAKE THE GAME WORK PLZ
[19:15] <@Outlawl> No we're having debate
[19:15] <@Mabel> yes, you're being overly combative at the moment
[19:15] <@Mabel> i'm really trying at the moment to deal with this because i care about this project and the game and i don't want to just abandon it
[19:15] <+Daphinicus> I would agree. There's debating, and then there's aggression. This conversation definitely has more aggression than intellectual discussion.
[19:16] <@Mabel> but it's difficult when you're being so hostiole
[19:16] <@Outlawl> Do you know why we're being hostile
[19:16] <@Mabel> if you're going to get any real content you need to be way more laid back than you're being at the moment
[19:16] <@Mabel> i do, but even when there are frustrations
[19:16] <@Mabel> you have to listen to the other person
[19:16] <@Outlawl> Then why
[19:16] <@Outlawl> why are we hostile
[19:16] <@Mabel> and you can't just ignore them when they say
[19:17] <@Mabel> it seems you feel as if you are being under-represented, under-utilized, and ignored
[19:17] <+Daphinicus> THat's a fine question, there, Outlawl, since you can argue your point without being hostile just fine.
[19:17] <@Mabel> and i'm sorry for all of those
[19:17] <@Mabel> really
[19:17] <@Mabel> i'm trying to speak calmly with you
[19:17] <@Outlawl> Justifying your attitude or actions because "you're lead pt, and you care about the game" doesn't justify anything
[19:17] <@Mabel> and it feels like you're just biting at me every time i say anythiyng
[19:17] <@Mabel> and flat out ignoring half of it
[19:18] <@Outlawl> Because there needs to be
[19:18] <+Darklord> are you talking about me outlaw?
[19:18] <@Outlawl> It's gamebalancing
[19:18] <@Mabel> and it's honestly frustrating me, but i continue to try and act calmly
[19:18] <@Outlawl> not at the moment
[19:18] <@Outlawl> no
[19:18] <+Darklord> when on earth have I *EVER* said anything about being lead pt
[19:18] <+Darklord> EVER
[19:18] <@Mabel> and if you look at our tones
[19:18] <@Outlawl> Now
[19:18] <@Mabel> i think you'll see that you're way more hostile than i am at the moment
[19:18] <@Outlawl> Now you're calm
[19:18] <+Anti_Kryst> Mabel, one thing I would ask of you is be less "arrogant" when suggestions are made or changes we might think about in the future, I respect your development skills, but its hard to mention anything to you at times.
[19:18] <@Mabel> i am pretty fucking frustrated
[19:19] <@Outlawl> Well obviously, ten minutes ago I doubt anyone was calm
[19:19] <@Mabel> you're still way over the top man
[19:19] <@Outlawl> Comparing that brings no justice
[19:19] <+Anti_Kryst> I know it always boils down to mabel is mabel
[19:19] <+Anti_Kryst> but sometimes it gets old
[19:19] <@Mabel> you're being incredibly hostile
[19:19] <@Mabel> i listen when suggestions are made
[19:19] <@Mabel> i do
[19:19] <@Mabel> i try to keep track of the general feelings
[19:19] <@Outlawl> Because my viewpoint contradicts yours
[19:19] <+Anti_Kryst> Ok, sometimes it just doesnt seem that way then
[19:19] <@Mabel> and analyze them in an even way
[19:19] <@Mabel> you will notice
[19:19] <+Daphinicus> Kryst, it helps to talk to him on TS3
01[19:20] <@Strife> lol
[19:20] <@Mabel> yes i honestly think voice comms work way better than chatrooms
[19:20] <@Mabel> but whatever
[19:20] <+Daphinicus> I've had long, heated, but never vitriolic discussions with the man.
01[19:20] <@Strife> yeah
[19:20] <@Outlawl> That is your view
01[19:20] <@Strife> because you've been here like a month
[19:20] <@Outlawl> you someone on the development team
[19:21] <@Mabel> if you do have a problem with me
[19:21] <@Mabel> then you can bring it up with bugs or me
[19:21] <@Outlawl> I thought bugs was the lead pt
[19:21] <@Mabel> i'm sorry me being.. well me gets in the way of this working
[19:21] <+Darklord> pt != dev
01[19:21] <@Strife> typo
[19:21] <@Mabel> bugs is the lead developer
[19:21] <@Outlawl> lead
[19:21] <@Outlawl> eh
[19:21] <@Outlawl> my mistake
[19:21] <@Outlawl> apologies
[19:21] <@Mabel> he's done it more than once strife
01[19:22] <@Strife> yes but what he means is obvious
[19:22] <@Mabel> it's okay, as long as we're clear
[19:22] <@Mabel> just making sure, because there's a lot of things that we've talked about
[19:22] <@Mabel> and it can get hazy
[19:22] <@Mabel> so it can be worth it to clarify
[19:22] <@Mabel> no need to get up in arms about that
03[19:23] * Retrieving #legions.beta modes...
[19:23] <@Outlawl> There was/is
[19:23] <@Outlawl> I mean it's pretty evident whats going on now
[19:23] <@Mabel> please tell?
[19:24] <@Outlawl> Let's meet a common ground and make everyone nice
[19:24] <@Outlawl> No
[19:24] <@Mabel> not being sarcastic, i want to know what you think
[19:24] <@Outlawl> OH
[19:24] <@Outlawl> PRIVATE TESTERS OPINIONS CARE
[19:24] <@Mabel> ...
[19:24] <@Outlawl> this is new to me
[19:24] <@Outlawl> this is the first time I've heard this
[19:24] <@Mabel> is this about that?
[19:25] <@Mabel> please don't go off on that
[19:25] <@Outlawl> You we're completely avoiding our opinions about 10 minutes ago
[19:25] <@Outlawl> and you openly admitted it
[19:25] <@Mabel> about what?
[19:25] <+Daphinicus> Head.
[19:25] <+Daphinicus> Hit.
[19:25] <+Daphinicus> Keyboard.
[19:25] <@Outlawl> Everything pertaining to PT's