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Darg vs Hyru

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Feb 7th, 2022
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  1. Wapulatus vs Chinaboo
  2.  
  3. Wap R1
  4. * Jace has 2 Pokemon that are very strong
  5. * Sphinx can cut through metal
  6. * The Drake has very strong heat attacks
  7. * The Drake/Sphinx are fast
  8. * The Sphinx can resist piercing attacks
  9. * Mace has a lightsaber, and can cut you in half with biggaheat, Alucard cannot resist the saber, 7723 cannot resist the saber
  10. * Mace is also very fast
  11. * Neither of the ranged pickups are win cons for Team Chinaboo
  12. homie why did you put jace's section after his summons and mace smh
  13. * Jace statposting, fast, durable, resilient to heat
  14. * Team should get ranged due to Mace's running speed + Jace's invisibility
  15. * 7723's super vision has to be turned on, so he doesn't know that Jace is necessarily invisible + Jace can still mask himself from infrared
  16. * Both Mace/Jace's ranged weapons, illusions and force bullshit, pretty much autowin the match
  17.  
  18. China R1
  19. * Mace and Jace don't have relevant durability against what Alu/77 can do, Alu has big cut, 77 has big cut and big strong
  20. * Jace needs to activate heat resist, which he won't know to do
  21. * 77 can see past illusions
  22. * Jace cannot disguise his heat signature due to stips/not knowing
  23. * Jace reacts very slow, and his speed is fake
  24. * Mace's speed is comparable to characters slower than Alucard/7723
  25. * Mace does not know what 7723/Alucard do, Mace can be hit by things he doesn't see, etc etc.
  26. * Alucard and 7723 have great heat resistance, 77 has a strong ass sword and shield
  27. * Mace punching is not relevant to Alu or 77 at all
  28. * Mace won't automatically go for the force, he fights characters without all of his weapons.
  29. * The force is not an autowin
  30. * The summons' offense is not good, and don't have good durability vs. piercing weapons, or at least Sphinx does
  31. * The speed scaling for the summons is not good
  32. * Both 77 and Alu are fast, can reach the ranged pickups, and do so as a team which means Mace will not have Jace as backup if everyone goes for ranged
  33.  
  34. Wap R2
  35. * The Drake is strong, the Sphinx can pierce well, 77's durability vs. piercing is not comparable to what Sphinx puts out
  36. * The Sphinx does fine versus piercing weaponry
  37. * 77 probably wouldn't use the sword versus non-robots
  38. * The speed scaling is fine, the Sphinx is just incredibly faster than the construct, the Drake loses because it was fighting Zombieman
  39. * Both Alucard/77 move visibly slower than crossbow bolts
  40. * Jace's main win con of 'go invisible/use summons/use illusions' were not adequately addressed/countered
  41. * Jace's speed is fine, the antifeat has context, the speed feat in question is in a small room
  42. * Jace doesn't actually need magic to shield him from heat, Jace's durability is very big versus 77's offense
  43. * Mace's speed is fine and the antifeat is not an antifeat
  44. * Alucard is blocked by someone moving their hand slowly over the course of a second
  45. * 77's offense is very slow compared to what Mace blocks
  46. * Alu does not have real heat resist, 77's heat resist is to an inconsistent weapon
  47.  
  48. China R2
  49. * Establishment of 77 and Alu's offense, defense, and speed
  50. I'm not going to knock you hard for like, going into rebuttals immediately in R1 then statposting in R2, but I will say this isn't great formatting or etiquette, especially since this is the final round and Darg didn't/couldn't respond to a lot of this.
  51. * 77 is fast in relation to cars, much faster with jets, can fight with jets
  52. * Alu bounces around very fast, perceives falling lizard people as frozen
  53. * 77 can crush metal with hits and send biggafoes flying
  54. * Also has a variety of weapons that can do strong stuff versus lots of concrete/metal
  55. * Alucard can smash a lot of stone with his hits, the sword can cut through metal
  56. * 77 is very durable versus huge concrete shattering hits, can take piercing that shreds through steel
  57. * Also has a shield
  58. * Alucard takes strong stone cracking hits
  59. * 77 and Alucard are really fast in comparison to the summons, and can just go grab ranged
  60. * 77's ranged attacks are very powerful
  61. * Jace doesn't move fast enough to go grab ranged, he can be detected by 77, 77 will use the infrared
  62. * Mace won't provably use his lightsaber on Alucard, 77 will kill normal people
  63. * The lightsaber is also inconsistent
  64. * Mace needs prolonged contact with 77 to cut him in half, 77 can fight through lots of damage
  65.  
  66. So the one argument that China didn't really counter was that Jace is essentially going undetected. Neither 77 or Alucard know they're looking for an invisible opponent, 77 won't know to turn his infrared on, they're also both pretty much going to fighting the Sphinx and Drake, who, with context being applied for the supposed antifeats are a very big issue for Team China, and this is functionally a 2v4, really. China did bring up a very good point in R1 that neither he nor Wap pressed in consecutive rounds that 77 and Alucard could just travel together, while Mace and Jace functionally can't, but I think this is soft countered by the summons existing and occupying enough of 77 and Alucard's time that they can't reasonably converge on the visible Mace without running into problems.
  67.  
  68. Now as for the ranged stuff, I think Hyru did manage to sufficiently argue that like, Mace probably wouldn't 100% murderfuck his team, the illusions would still be a massive problem in the discussion of Mace landing whatever hits he needed to. Mace's 'heat antifeats' didn't really seem to actually exist, he still cuts through metal droids with the thing and burns through thick as fuck metal, 77's heat durability is demonstrably inconsistent, and the scan being used for '77 can fight through taking lots of damage' just...did not seem to be that? Maybe Mace would require a few hits, but I think in a fight where he's backed up by Jace's bullshit he should reliably beat 77 1v1, and I think he would prioritize taking out what looks like a robot droid over the human-looking character. 77's ranged weapons are certainly powerful, but he does need to know where the opponents are to land it, and it's not as strong of an advantage as invisibility or illusions, especially if the summons are still alive.
  69.  
  70. Alucard is strong, probably the singularly best and most consistent character in terms of speed and strength here if I'm being honest, but he was not argued to have really any counter to the invisibility nonsense and probably cannot win against superior numbers.
  71. If he were to engage Mace in 1v1 combat, he could probably win, but again, summons make this a lot more shaky of a scenario to occur.
  72.  
  73. Had China established stats in the first round so he could more adequately counter Wapulatus's win conditions in R2, this might have been able to swing the other way, but ultimately China lost out on the most vital point (that Jace could remain completely undetected to 77) and it dominoes from there.
  74.  
  75. Wapulatus/Dargoo wins.
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