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Transfusion
Oct 10th, 2012
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  1.  
  2. Global Chat Network Linking System - Welcome All! | http://www.ircglobal.org/relay/
  3. Topic set by [email protected] on Tue Nov 22 2011 09:16:57 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)
  4. 01:33 Transfuta -_-
  5. 01:34 Transfuta will someone just utter a word
  6. 01:34 Transfuta my ears are ringing
  7. 01:34 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] sure
  8. 01:35 Transfuta Aaaah, i hear a human voice!
  9. 01:35 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] more or less
  10. 01:36 Transfuta lol. how impersonal IRC is.
  11. 01:36 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] it's a world of its own
  12. 01:36 Transfuta prove to me that you are not merely figments of my imagination -Sollipsis
  13. 01:37 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] heh
  14. 01:37 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] prove to yourself that you really exist
  15. 01:37 Transfuta for all i know, i could be incredibly deranged, banging my fingers out in a psychiatric examination tiled room
  16. 01:38 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] or that your entire thought/memory reference archive wasn't create 5 minutes ago
  17. 01:38 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] created*
  18. 01:38 Transfuta :| the very thought of it makes me cringe....
  19. 01:38 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] there's no way to know with absolute certainty
  20. 01:40 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] and since time is forever fleeting, it's never really the a present moment.... by the time you consider 'the prsent moment' it's later
  21. 01:40 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] and still fleeting
  22. 01:40 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] the present moment* - the "a"
  23. 01:40 Transfuta remembers a strange theory: Movement from one point to another is always impossible, for you always have to travel half the distance of half the distance......
  24. 01:42 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] our preception of "the present moment" is actually our memory of the very recent past in conjunction with our anticipation of the very near future
  25. 01:42 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] there is no genuine "present" IMO
  26. 01:42 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] it's an illusion
  27. 01:43 Transfuta there is no present because whatever you do is in reference to the immediate past, eh
  28. 01:43 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] but since the past no longer exists, and conce the future doesn't yet exist... if the present as well doesn't exist, do we really exist?
  29. 01:43 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] conce = since
  30. 01:44 Transfuta will go to sleep pondering
  31. 01:44 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] lol
  32. 01:44 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] enjoy
  33. 01:44 Transfuta well, if we never met our end in the past
  34. 01:45 Transfuta and if we haven't reached the future yet
  35. 01:45 Transfuta hmmm >.<
  36. 01:45 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] then, another question to ponder is: a fact that something was, presumably lasts forever.... but where is such a fact retained?
  37. 01:46 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] right
  38. 01:46 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] andnthere's no present
  39. 01:46 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] er and there's no present
  40. 01:46 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] so what's left?
  41. 01:46 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] nothing i can think of
  42. 01:47 Transfuta the past is defined by the present though
  43. 01:47 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] that's correct
  44. 01:47 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] the present is a culmination of the past
  45. 01:48 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] but if the present can't exist because of time's perpetual state of fleeting onward, how can there be anything?
  46. 01:48 Transfuta idk, fast forward until the sun becomes a white dwarf, and our fleeting thoughts will be no more :)
  47. 01:49 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] seems true enough
  48. 01:50 Transfuta Doolittle in Pygmalion: The only position in life with any spice left in it is a dustman
  49. 01:51 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] and if our entire solar system were annihilated tomorrow, did any of earth's history ever really occur?
  50. 01:51 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] and if so, where is the fact of such history reteined?
  51. 01:51 Transfuta it did, if some entity recorded it and the record still exists
  52. 01:51 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] retained even
  53. 01:51 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] but if noentity recorded it?
  54. 01:51 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] what then?
  55. 01:52 Transfuta zero. nada.
  56. 01:52 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] when if all perceptionand record where destroyed?
  57. 01:52 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] then it never happened
  58. 01:52 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] in that case, at least
  59. 01:52 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] or did it?
  60. 01:52 Transfuta it never happened because no more entity in the future is aware of it
  61. 01:53 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] is there some medium/means/area/thing that retains event records universally?
  62. 01:53 Transfuta Enter religion.
  63. 01:53 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] depart religion
  64. 01:53 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] ;<
  65. 01:53 Transfuta Exeunt.
  66. 01:54 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] i'm not religious
  67. 01:54 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] and see it as man's creation alone
  68. 01:54 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] i'm a determinist as well
  69. 01:54 Transfuta i can see why, especially when the bible has been rewritten countless times usually with semi-factual eyewitness stories
  70. 01:54 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] agreed
  71. 01:55 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] wholeheartedly
  72. 01:55 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] all written my men and translated over and over from language tolanguage
  73. 01:55 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] how accurate cansomething like that hope to be
  74. 01:55 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] not very IMO
  75. 01:56 Transfuta live every day as if it were your last. literally. I guarantee you'll die a happy man.
  76. 01:56 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] makes sense to me
  77. 01:57 Transfuta lol, our base, animal desires never cease to be quenched
  78. 01:57 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] oops
  79. 01:57 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] my men = by men
  80. 01:57 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] we are biologic robots
  81. 01:58 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] i see all choices (decisions) we make as steadfastly preset by their antecedents
  82. 01:59 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] and no true randomness in the universe
  83. 01:59 Transfuta fatalistic view much?
  84. 01:59 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] no
  85. 01:59 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] deterministic view
  86. 02:00 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] randomness is just a lable given to event sequences that man connot observe and document
  87. 02:00 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] label*
  88. 02:01 Transfuta but.. the act of observing what appears to be random....
  89. 02:01 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] so each of my typos was here was predetermined 100 years ago (and beyond)
  90. 02:01 Transfuta is still observing
  91. 02:01 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] er so each of my typos here was was predetermined 100 years ago (and beyond)
  92. 02:01 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] as was my apparent dyslexia ;>
  93. 02:04 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] well, every entity/occurrence/thing that exists is a precise result of that which produced it
  94. 02:04 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] including out thoughts and decisions
  95. 02:04 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] and thus our actions
  96. 02:04 Transfuta that's scary to think about, in a way >.<
  97. 02:04 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] out = our
  98. 02:04 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] it's not pleasant, agreed
  99. 02:05 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] but how can it be untrue?
  100. 02:05 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] every occurrence must be a result
  101. 02:06 Transfuta I can choose not to respond to you, not to hit my return key. But my action of deciding whether or not to respond to you... is triggered by your philosophical questions...
  102. 02:06 Transfuta Argh this is sorcery
  103. 02:06 Transfuta tries to escape
  104. 02:06 Transfuta hotel california
  105. 02:06 Transfuta you can check out, but you can't really leave
  106. 02:08 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] the thought test woud be to imagine a thing that exists and then removeing one of the contributing factors that allowed it to come to be as it is.... if you remove the factor and the thing is unchanged, then it
  107. 02:08 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] but if the things changes in some way (even a minuscule way), it proves my point
  108. 02:09 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] things = thing
  109. 02:11 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] and your decision not to respond to me would as well have been triggered by the thoughts that led to it
  110. 02:11 Transfuta evidently it has been, i'm still pondering :S
  111. 02:11 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] like, for example, if you thought that mot responding to me would disprove my point
  112. 02:11 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] not*
  113. 02:11 Transfuta yeah, that was what i was getting at previously
  114. 02:12 Transfuta it was triggered by my ability to process your arguments
  115. 02:12 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] the bottom line is everything that happensis a result of cause and effect
  116. 02:12 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] and that's determinsim
  117. 02:12 Transfuta if you choose to make something random, how can it be random
  118. 02:13 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] determinism = pure cause and effect
  119. 02:13 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] it's not
  120. 02:13 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] there is no real random
  121. 02:14 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] as i said, random is an excuse people use for lack of information on causation
  122. 02:14 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] but the causation is always there
  123. 02:15 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] as proven by the fact of the result... ie, the existence of the occurrence or thing
  124. 02:17 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] if things in our universe really appeard without specific causation (even at subatomic level), we'd all be in trouble
  125. 02:17 Transfuta thinks of Brownian motion and radioactive decay
  126. 02:17 Transfuta these processes are considered "random" due to the heisenberg uncertainity principle
  127. 02:18 G-link15 *parallax*(IRC-GLOBAL) thinks of how much of a quack-job Werner Heisenberg had to have been
  128. 02:18 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] with his uncertainty principle and all
  129. 02:19 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] that was the best, and most compelling example of my point: that they label things thaey
  130. 02:19 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] that was the best, and most compelling example of my point: that they label things thay can't explain as random
  131. 02:19 Transfuta basically, you can't know for certain the position of an electron or similar particle because as you increase the accuracy of your measurement of the velocity, your accuracy of your momentum measurement decreases
  132. 02:20 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] yes, but they nonetheless have relative positions, paths, trajectories, etc. at any point in time
  133. 02:21 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] just because man isnt able to document and track those positions doesn't negate their presence
  134. 02:21 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] man is being arrogant in says: "becaue we can't see and measure it, it must not exist"
  135. 02:21 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] er ii mean man is being arrogant in saying: "becaue we can't see and measure it, it must not exist"
  136. 02:22 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] the fact of existence poves specific causality
  137. 02:22 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] the fact of existence proves specific causality
  138. 02:22 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] even
  139. 02:22 Transfuta how do you know it exists? ;)
  140. 02:22 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] i don't
  141. 02:23 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] but it's the most reasonable assessment IMO
  142. 02:23 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] i may not even exist
  143. 02:23 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] we can't know anything with absolute certainty
  144. 02:24 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] all we can do is embrace the most logical views
  145. 02:24 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] which is what i try to do
  146. 02:25 Transfuta Yes...from Wired, Sept 2012: ... "But now scientists at the Australian National University have introduced a technique for generating 5.7 billion truly random values per second. They do it by harnessing the fundamental uncertainity of the universe. Their technique measures quantum phenomena in a box completely devoid of photons, where ghostly virtual particle
  147. 02:25 Transfuta s randomly burble in and out of existence 24/7. "God does not play dice," Einstein famously quipped in response to evidence that randomness rules the cosmos. Luckily, he was wrong". (Wired article by Jonathon Keats).
  148. 02:25 Transfuta hmm, then i guess they're ignoring the fact
  149. 02:25 Transfuta that we don't quite fully understand quantum formula ;)
  150. 02:26 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] the values are only "random" because they can't harness/observe/detect/track the causality involved
  151. 02:27 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] but the presence of the values proves there was causality
  152. 02:27 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] again, it'sman's arrogance as i see it
  153. 02:29 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] ans Einstein was trying to be accepted by the masses.... so since he knew that most people were religious, he used that famous "god doesn't play dice" phraseology
  154. 02:29 Transfuta I guess you're right, and it was predetermined that i would chance upon a person like you with a neat worldview :)
  155. 02:30 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] but Einstein's underlying message was that we live in a deterministic universe
  156. 02:30 Transfuta mhmm
  157. 02:30 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] heh
  158. 02:30 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] could very well be
  159. 02:30 Transfuta kisses parallax and wanders off to bed, it's getting chilly here :3
  160. 02:31 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] where are you located?
  161. 02:31 Transfuta China, timezone UTC +8
  162. 02:31 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] ah ok
  163. 02:31 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] cool
  164. 02:31 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] i'm from the US
  165. 02:32 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] in Oregon
  166. 02:32 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] nice chatting with you
  167. 02:41 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] BTW Transfuta, one of my lines i typed earlier truncated over the relay.... the first part was:
  168. 02:41 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] the thought test woud be to imagine a thing that exists and then removeing one of the contributing factors that allowed it to come to be as it is.... if you remove the factor and the thing is unchanged,
  169. 02:41 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] and the cut off part was:
  170. 02:41 G-link15 [parallax(IRC-GLOBAL)] then it couldn't have been a factor to its existence
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