Marth Luigi JMU Export

←/PSGeyser - 01/10/2017
Wait how does the JMU work by netplay?
Arasz - 01/10/2017
:eyes:
[нейро] - 01/10/2017
What do you mean?
JMU visitors can ask to netplay in #netplay.
←/PSGeyser - 01/10/2017
I have never done a JMU for melee so I was asking how does it work
[нейро] - 01/10/2017
We have regional flairs - @NetplayWC @NetplayEC @NetplayMT @NetplayEU if you'd like one of those.
Well, it's mostly just discussions and vod reviews.
Some people like to try and grind via netplay, but that's not that common.
←/PSGeyser - 01/10/2017
Okay thanks but that didn't really answer my question
[нейро] - 01/10/2017
Mmh, well, not really sure what you're trying to ask.
Vorkz - 01/10/2017
The JMU is to discuss things about the matchup
rd1027 - 01/10/2017
this isn't relevant to the mu anyways
notsocrazy24 - 01/10/2017
Generally speaking, we have people from each discord come into the JMU channel and just discuss stuff about the MU, maybe post vods of high level examples of the MU etc.
you can also try to get netplay matches by messaging #netplay
[нейро] - 01/10/2017
On that note - here's a list of Luigi/Marth vods: https://vods.co/melee?char%5B%5D=13&char%5B%5D=35&event=All&type=1&top8=All
rd1027 - 01/10/2017
I'll start off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2ROdPec6kw
YouTube
VGBootCamp VoDs
EVO 2014 - XTR | Eddy Mexico (Luigi) Vs. MIOM | PewPewU (Marth) ...


[нейро] pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.01/10/2017
rd1027 - 01/10/2017
this is one of my favorites
notsocrazy24 - 01/10/2017
there's at least one Abate vs. M2K set where M2K goes Marth on YS that's not listed here let me find it
rd1027 - 01/10/2017
I think you're talking about vudujin vs m2k?
notsocrazy24 - 01/10/2017
there may be a vudu vs. M2k one as well I guess
but I'm talking about abate vs. M2k
https://youtu.be/eIE-4qmbefE?t=190
YouTube
PGH NEOH Smash
CF3 Pro Bracket GF: Mew2King (P1) vs Abate (P2)


Focus 🔥 - 01/10/2017
I believe Marth heavily dictates this matchup with essentially a four pronged mixup
Tom - 01/10/2017
please explain further
Focus 🔥 - 01/10/2017
Dtilt, grab, fair, dash back
Marth's greater threatening range on all of these options mean that Luigi must play in a way that means you will lose some interactions
By playing grab when Marth attempts dtilt you've lost that neutral exchange
And that's okay
Because it's better to have a gameplan that allows you to solidly win exchanges and accept where you did not make the right choice than not
This matchup is very hard for Luigi so I think going into it (like pretty much all matchups) knowing where you lose and choosing to accept that risk keeps you from getting lost and rolled
notsocrazy24 - 01/10/2017
This is definitely the only MU where I've played players who 1) I absolutely cannot beat in Luigi/Marth and 2) aren't better than me
and the evidence I have for 2) is that as soon as I pull out my definitely secondary and not a co-main fox, I start winning
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - 01/10/2017
If you change to Fox vs people and start beating them that 1. Doesn't mean you're better automatically. And 2. You need more MU experience with Luigi vs Marth.
Akkien - 01/10/2017
I think i've only played this MU once or twice. What can marth get off a grab?
notsocrazy24 - 01/10/2017
I'm not claiming I'm better than them, lol
I also have more Marth experience than most MUs
probably my 3rd most played MU
behind Puff and Sheik
rd1027 - 01/10/2017
I do not think marth has any true followups off of grab
however I like up throw
it keeps luigi in the air which is what we want
Akkien - 01/10/2017
can we get stuff on bad di?
rd1027 - 01/10/2017
I suppose
Akkien - 01/10/2017
regrabs or something'
?
DIBTT - 01/10/2017
@Akkien in my experience not too much, but depending on DI dthrow can setup for an edge guard and upthrow can juggle him
rd1027 - 01/10/2017
Maybe not regrab but I can see f throw fair working on di in
notsocrazy24 - 01/10/2017
you can definitely get stuff off of fthrow if Luigi DIs badly
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - 01/10/2017
F-throw fair is guaranteed.
rd1027 - 01/10/2017
however if they di correctly I dont think we get anything off of grab
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - 01/10/2017
DI unsure.
rd1027 - 01/10/2017
down and away di would beat f throw fair
so I think up throw generally is better
Akkien - 01/10/2017
yeah basically the few times i've played it i just used uthrow and juggled him til utilt kill percent
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - 01/10/2017
Yeah. I think D/F-throw follow ups only really work on bad DI. I'd probably just u-throw juggle. Luigi has almost no ways of actually getting down.
Focus 🔥 - 01/10/2017
Uthrow makes alot happen but I think the other throws (including bthrow even) all have use in putting Luigi in a position where you might be able to kill him faster than a juggle might
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - 01/10/2017
B-throw has no follow ups on no/decent DI.
Munerato - 01/10/2017
marth mains must love this MU hahaha
definitely a tough one but not impossible
I still think falcon's harder
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - 01/10/2017
I mean. In tournament yeah. It's a pretty boring MU though.
Munerato - 01/10/2017
https://youtu.be/hXzI1QMr-UU?t=147
YouTube
SSBM Tutorials
Are You A Luigi Player? - Super Smash Bros. Melee


this video is very good
Sinnoh - 01/10/2017
how to win this mu:
lrastart go sheik
Grognar - 01/10/2017
nah
f-tilt
and down throw fair
MeanGreen - 01/10/2017
that reverse Bair to take M2K's first stock was slick
Sinnoh - 01/10/2017
what's the best option to escape Marth's throw combos, spamming n-air doesn't help usually
Grognar - 01/10/2017
a marth main from toronto told me that down b is good for getting down against marth
its not 100%
Grognar - 01/10/2017
but its a really good option
rd1027 - 01/10/2017
marth doesn't have guarenteed followups off of throw unless you di badly
Grognar - 01/10/2017
especially if you mix up the timing with double jump
rd1027 - 01/10/2017
its about mixing up your landing with luigi
if he up throws
Grognar - 01/10/2017
^
MeanGreen - 01/10/2017
your icon is excellent btw @Grognar
and i would echo that double B is a solid option for trying to land against marth.
Luigikid - 01/10/2017
DOUBLE FAIR
ugh6
Munerato - 01/10/2017
DI away
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
y'all should try double fair vs. your local dtilting marth and see how quickly you win
if the marth decides to double fair i'd like to figure out the answer to that bc i got nothing
Luigikid - 01/10/2017
The only thing that works somewhat regularly i've found is WD in roll behind
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
hm. then like jab grab or sumn right
Thomdore - 01/10/2017
WD just straight down on the tip of the ledge is good if you read they will fair you. Need to practice it tho
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
well it's all a bait and switch matchup but like
Thomdore - 01/10/2017
If you wanna force him closer you can fireball once, and then do the ledgedash :p
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
i see you, that can be sick
yeah i was thinking why not just ledgedash but it's actually a sick mixup to ledgedashing
like wd in place roll behind and you get frame advantage if you time it right and they space it wrong by getting messed up that yoy's in place
*you're
i also wasn't sure if you were talking ab from the ledge or not
Thomdore - 01/10/2017
Refresh with can be a good mixup also. Don't need to WD at first oppotunity each time from the ledge. :p
Refresh invincibility *
I got that problem for a long time
People just placed hitboxes same place, cause they knew I ledgedashed at first opportunity each time.
Yeah exactly, many people try grab/attack if you WD straight down, and then roll behind.
Regular getup is the same, but you get slightly longer in.
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::muscle::muscle::muscle:
Thomdore - 01/10/2017
But yea, Luigikid's advice is quite good ;p
DIBTT - 01/10/2017
As a Marth, one of my Luigi friends likes to WD in-shield-grab, and I don't really know what to do since he's so good at predicting what I do
How do I deal with that?
Since if I don't begin to jump, he knows I'm going to grab and gets away
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
spotdodge
or catch the wd in with something
/sometimes the only way to beat luigi is to outlame him
Munerato - 01/10/2017
Luigi's spotdodge is amazing
absolutely amazing
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
as a marth
but you right it's literally god tier
Munerato - 01/10/2017
wavedash triple spotdodge :bangbang~1:
M.D. chins - 01/10/2017
true combo
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
the midwest special
Thomdore - 01/10/2017
Spotdodge is amazing
:heart:
notsocrazy24 - 01/10/2017
wait why is thomdore blue
@Thomdore you're from the Luigi skype group, yeah?
I wanna say Norwegian Luigi but I might be misremembering
Thomdore - 01/10/2017
That's right :p
notsocrazy24 - 01/10/2017
@[нейро] has you as a marth lol
[нейро] - 01/10/2017
Fixed.
Thomdore - 01/10/2017
Lel
Wow this discord has gotten big. I've just stuck too the skype very looong :p
[нейро] - 01/10/2017
Aye.
The Marth JMU has pushed us to over 425 members.
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
i've said it before and i'll say it again
i wasn't even aware there were close to 400 luigi mains
it's actually sick tho
[нейро] - 01/10/2017
Not all of the people in this discord are Luigi mains.
Some are secondaries, some are pockets.
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
tru but still
[нейро] - 01/10/2017
Some don't play him at all, and are just in here because we're a pretty active and neat discord.
notsocrazy24 - 01/10/2017
N isn't even a Luigi main
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
this place is massive
[нейро] - 01/10/2017
Hey now.
I'm a dual main.(edited)
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
"how many do you think there are patrick?"
notsocrazy24 - 01/10/2017
let's see
Babbaloo, SmashGOD, WK, ycz, Vorks, wenbo, and Zeo aren't Luigi mains IIRC
Jetfuel isn't a Luigi main although Idk what name he's going by now
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
word
[нейро] - 01/10/2017
Aye, half of our high level and mid level players aren't Luigi mains.
Abate, Blea, Jah Ridin, Luigikid, Vist, BluEG, LiquiED, Focus, Bagelz.(edited)
Those are the only ones that solo main Luigi.
Gaslight - 01/10/2017
interesting. kinda makes sense tho
notsocrazy24 - 01/10/2017
also do we still count abate? he just made his account then left lol
[нейро] - 01/10/2017
I'll count him to mend my broken heart.
Munerato - 01/10/2017
we have a lot of pocket luigis
most of them picked him up to counter jigglypuff and sheik Kappa
melee dawcpa - 01/10/2017
hello marth players!
January 11, 2017
STIGALAWNMOWERS - 01/11/2017
Hi @melee dawcpa
Thomdore - 01/11/2017
Luigi for sheik lol
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - 01/11/2017
@DIBTT  If the Luigi always retreats when you don't jump just take more of the stage from him. He'll stop always retreating and you'll be able to grab him.
Or he'll just stop wavedashing in and shielding.
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - 01/11/2017
So. How much do you Luigi's hate this MU and why? I know my local Luigi main absolutely hates playing against Marth.
[нейро] - 01/11/2017
It was the worst match up on the server-wide match up spread survey.
So I'd say that we despise it.
notsocrazy24 - 01/11/2017
I don't even dislike the MU that much
I have a friend who plays Marth, and during the school year I play him more than anyone else
and it's pretty fun
Focus 🔥 - 01/11/2017
The matchup is fun just very very hard
notsocrazy24 - 01/11/2017
My earlier statements may have come across as bitching about the MU(edited)
but like, I was just pointing out that it's an interesting phenomenon
that I've never come across, say, a sheik who I couldn't beat with Luigi but that I could beat with Fox(edited)
despite Sheik/Fox generally being considered much worse for Sheik than Marth/Fox is for Marth
DayQuil - 01/11/2017
I like this matchup because it forces me to not auto pilot and focus on neutral
Focus 🔥 - 01/11/2017
Marth is a great general warmup matchup for that reason
DayQuil - 01/11/2017
agreed
luigi can't really cheese against marth I think
Focus 🔥 - 01/11/2017
Neutral requires good thinking and combos are difficult and punish you for overextending
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - 01/11/2017
Very interesting views. What play style of Marth do you say would give you the most trouble?
Elu - 01/11/2017
people good at keeping luigi off the ground i guess
jugglers
notsocrazy24 - 01/11/2017
Is "old school" a style?
cause that's kinda how I'd describe the Marths I've recently had trouble with
Elu - 01/11/2017
depends what you mean by old school
[H][G] - 01/11/2017
you have rouble with roll fsmash
notsocrazy24 - 01/11/2017
Well most recently I lost to a guy who's been playing on and off since 2007
and you could kinda tell he's still got a lot of that like late 00s meta in his playstyle I guess
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - 01/11/2017
Alright. I've gotten the answers to the questions I wanted. Anything you guys want to know from the Marth R&D discord?
Focus 🔥 - 01/11/2017
How do you most often get hit by Luigi?
How do you most often get KOd by Luigi?
Munerato - 01/11/2017
dsmash and dair
probably
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - 01/11/2017
D-smash, Dair and Fairs are the most common ways Luigi's usually get kills vs me. Which also tend to be some of his best kill options.
Most often way I get hit is usually through a quick short range approach or a bait. Short range approaches tend to be wavedash in f-tilt/grab.
Munerato - 01/11/2017
omg sorry guys i thought that was a question in general
like, #general(edited)
i used to be a marth main, so i guess i can share what i've got
i used to die to ftilts then gimp a lot
those were 3 matches though and was a loooooong time ago
Babbaloo in the Shadaloo - 01/11/2017
i know what @notsocrazy24 is talking about
"old skool" Marth is the style most floaties have trouble with outside of high level
cuz those marths focus on spacing and juggling and they usually don't overextend or take unnecessary risks
"new meta" Marths are the spacee killers, i guess(edited)
obviously, the optimal marth mixes both well
bebeisadog - 01/11/2017
im bad but i think this is luigi's worst matchup at low-mid level. luigi's probably the easiest character in the game to juggle, which makes building % very easy for marth. luigi's combo move selection is kind of tricky because marth gets out of hitsun more quickly than other characters, and if you pick wrong you'll often still be in lag while marth is out of hitstun. also, low-mid luigis often have very obvious approaches which marth can easily read + fsmash.
also spamming marth dtilt edgeguards luigi better/more frustratingly than any other move except maybe fox shine, and luigi has to work relatively hard to get around it
Munerato - 01/11/2017
not really
just sweetspot up-b which is rather easy, luigi has a pretty big magnet (otherwise you can just tech it)(edited)
and ledgedash
maybe in low-mid level, as you said, but that's luigi 101 right there lol(edited)
luigi's combo game on marth is insane
he's tall and has the perfect weight
those aren't really problems in the matchup
the problem is being juggled and edgeguarded
as it has been stated on SSBM-T's video "are you a luigi player?", putting out hitboxes is super beatable and not effective at all, specially against marth, that has little duration on his hitboxes.
Good Luigis will always mix up their approaches. Think of Wavedash -> Option as an obvious rushing nair for you marths. Luigis have tons of ways to mix his approaches up and good Luigis pretty much always will if not whiff punishing and all of that.(edited)
this can be a lot harder on stages that marth can control a lot of space, such as Yoshi's Story
Which is definitely weird, since both Blea Gelo and Ka-Master have taken games off of M2K's marth there
melee dawcpa - 01/11/2017
The sheik matchup is harder for me but this matchup is pretty hard
if you win the neutral this matchup can be winnable for luigi
I say its 70/30 marth
Burnin Taco - 01/11/2017
I wouldn't say it's that bad
melee dawcpa - 01/11/2017
if luigi doesn't win the neutral then it's really hard to win
if luigi wins the neutral it's still pretty hard to win
you got to play luigi really well to have a chance at winning
thats why I gave it the 70-30
it could be debated that it is 60/40 though
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
i agree with 70/30
luigi's worst for sure in my mind
Brendan (word) - 01/11/2017
Matchup ratios are great if you like johns
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
i've never met a john i didn't like
Brendan (word) - 01/11/2017
Good one
Munerato - 01/11/2017
70-30 is pretty brutal
Burnin Taco - 01/11/2017
65/35 imo
Munerato - 01/11/2017
i don't think it's that bad
honestl
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
i dont see it being worse than 70-30, but i could see 65-35
Brendan (word) - 01/11/2017
Anyway, I play marth and wd-> ftilt gets me real good. I can cc it at low percent but if you slide behind me that can be a surprise.
melee dawcpa - 01/11/2017
I see it anywhere from 60-40 to 70-30
Brendan (word) - 01/11/2017
Dsmash has slightly less range (I think?) And I don't think cc is great against that
melee dawcpa - 01/11/2017
It depends on who you are
luigi has to space his moves well
win the neutral
and have a good combo game
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
you just kinda have to be way better than the marth tbh
luigi doesn't have a good combo game on marth
melee dawcpa - 01/11/2017
true
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
half the time when i downsmash marth my best followup is a losing trade with fair
melee dawcpa - 01/11/2017
you don't have to be better than the marth though
Brendan (word) - 01/11/2017
How is fair a losing trade for you
melee dawcpa - 01/11/2017
you have to outplay them
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
getting popped up for another fair is usually what happens when you hit a floaty with fair
imo if you outplay a marth enough to win a mu that bad you're better than them
Brendan (word) - 01/11/2017
Luigi fair is quite strong and any trade should give you stage advantage unless you're already offstage for some reason
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
i mean trading Luigi's uptilt with marth's fair
you def dont have time to fair
as luigi
Brendan (word) - 01/11/2017
Oh ok
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
sometimes uptilt fair works though if you dont trade
melee dawcpa - 01/11/2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2ROdPec6kw
YouTube
VGBootCamp VoDs
EVO 2014 - XTR | Eddy Mexico (Luigi) Vs. MIOM | PewPewU (Marth) ...


EM did ok
he airdodged to much this game
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkm-Mx3MmKI
YouTube
VGBootCamp VoDs
TBH6 SSBM - CLG | PewPewU (Marth) Vs. Ka-Master (Luigi) - Smash ...


i got to watch this live with some drunk guy who was openly drinking vodka in the venue
i think that yoshi's is actually kind of a good stage vs marth in this MU
Munerato - 01/11/2017
yeah ftilt is one of the things luigi has it in this matchup
what screws it up though is crouch cancel
now, usually, what Luigi would do against crounch cance"llers"
would be bair
or grab
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
and marth still has moves that beat it
Munerato - 01/11/2017
but marth makes that job hard
so you have to mix it up
melee dawcpa - 01/11/2017
Marth just outclasses luigi
Munerato - 01/11/2017
i find jab grab to be very efficient
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
mixing up is so important in the mu
Munerato - 01/11/2017
yeah
very
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
roll behind>jab kreygasm
Munerato - 01/11/2017
i don't like to put matchups in numbers
but it's definitely a troublesome matchup
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
i feel like FD is the worst stage here
what do you dudes think
Munerato - 01/11/2017
limits luigi a lot but i don't see him going through platforms either
Slyfincleton - 01/11/2017
its just so hard to get down
Munerato - 01/11/2017
it eases his combo game a lot though
(luigi)
tech chasing marth is rather easy
most weegees here are traumatized with this matchup hahahah but really, it's def a hard one but it's not impossible guys, cmon(edited)
all of this depends on marth playing the matchup perfectly
as i have stated before
marth's hitboxes stay out for a very short while
if you think about it, everyone that's not fox, falco, sheik and falcon go through this (and they still get wrecked pretty badly from other stuff)(edited)
you just have to get their patterns
and choose the right trades
marth is definitely the second best character in the game
January 12, 2017
Jah Ridin' - Last Thursday at 1:41 AM
Ftilt is my main tool in that mu. I not agreethat combo are good againts marth. The best is to finish a combo early and get the most from edgeguards and especially stage control
CptNebula - Last Thursday at 4:41 AM
^ agree
F tilt is the most important move Luigi has for making him viable
January 13, 2017
Chrispy - Last Friday at 2:18 PM
Wave dash forward tilt = best approach
Versus any character
Munerato - Last Friday at 7:03 PM
Except when they hold down(edited)
January 15, 2017
[★★★★] Leviathan - Last Sunday at 1:23 PM
which is 90% of the time
Munerato - Last Sunday at 3:28 PM
Not really, it would be a bad move if that was  the case
bebeisadog - Last Sunday at 3:45 PM
you just cant get predictable with it
because then they will hold down every time you come in
Burnin Taco - Last Sunday at 9:50 PM
So why do people suggest taking Marth to Yoshi's?
Chrispy - Last Sunday at 9:51 PM
No room to move vs Luigi
Burnin Taco - Last Sunday at 9:52 PM
So basically it's because it's harder to space moves and it's easier for Luigi to be all over Marth?
Chrispy - Last Sunday at 9:52 PM
Other way around
Burnin Taco - Last Sunday at 9:52 PM
I meant harder for Marth to space
Chrispy - Last Sunday at 9:53 PM
Yes
Burnin Taco - Last Sunday at 9:53 PM
Okay thank you
So what should I ban against Marth in a Bo3 do you think?
Chrispy - Last Sunday at 9:54 PM
If you Win rock paper, scissors before game one, ban Yoshi's
You lose, counter pick fd
That's what I'd do
Burnin Taco - Last Sunday at 9:56 PM
If I win game 1, what should I ban?
Chrispy - Last Sunday at 9:56 PM
Battlefield or FOD
I dunno! Maybe you like playing with platforms. I don't versus Luigi. I want to limit his movement options.
Burnin Taco - Last Sunday at 9:59 PM
I like FD against Marth, I just was wondering why so many Luigi's like Yoshi's
Chrispy - Last Sunday at 10:00 PM
Because of the ledges
Them sexy ledges that are so close to the bottom of the blast zone
You know how Luigi has shit recovery, right
Burnin Taco - Last Sunday at 10:01 PM
Yes I know Luigi has shit recovery lol
Chrispy - Last Sunday at 10:02 PM
Well,  the stage design kinda compensates for that
Burnin Taco - Last Sunday at 10:02 PM
hmm interesting
never thought about that
Chrispy - Last Sunday at 10:05 PM
Also Randall
Randall can be a cunt, sometimes
January 16, 2017
Munerato - Last Monday at 7:52 AM
marth mains
would you please provide us Marth's heatmap??
is there any on ikneedata??
notsocrazy24 - Last Monday at 10:11 AM
there is an oos heatmap on ikneedata for everyone down to ganon
http://ikneedata.com/heatmaps/oos/marth.html
Jagr - Last Monday at 10:15 AM
I don't think taking Marth to Yoshi's is very smart tbh
I either go FoD or Dreamland
On Yoshi's you just fucking die
And on FoD and Dreamland it's really easy to abuse the platform heights
Since Marth doesn't get shit for free on either of those stages
rd1027 - Last Monday at 10:37 AM
every marth in their right mind would ban dreamland
[H][G] - Last Monday at 10:40 AM
what if you dash dance camp a lot
rd1027 - Last Monday at 10:41 AM
it doesn't matter, dreamland is the worst for marth because its way harder to kill, and luigi also has space to camp marth back
LiquED - Last Monday at 10:43 AM
I think banning FD instead of Dreamland is pretty reasonable
Focus 🔥 - Last Monday at 10:44 AM
I don't agree with counterpicking Marth to Yoshi's either
LiquED - Last Monday at 10:44 AM
Zain did that against me, for example
Focus 🔥 - Last Monday at 10:44 AM
There are many hits that I try to DI to the ledge to avoid further combos but Marth can just fsmash there because of the height
And the sides are so small you'll die well below 100% even with good DI
Dreamland is the only stage that gives Luigi a little bit of an edge in the matchup
Marth gets to use every other stage more against Luigi than vice versa
DayQuil - Last Monday at 11:20 AM
agree
I try to go to BF as much as possible
FD can be a good pick if you understand the neutral reall well. just watch out for getting juggled by up air
Focus 🔥 - Last Monday at 12:01 PM
Playing neutral on FD isn't so bad it's just that the punish game is so brutal
Counterpicking it is a great way to give a game to a good Marth
Jagr - Last Monday at 1:23 PM
I dont think you guys realize how busted Luigi is on FoD
His short and full hop heights let him reach every platform while still autocancelling aerials
Also invincible upsmash is sick
And I agree with  @Focus 🔥 about FD.  Neutral becomes way easier but Marth has a field day for punishes
But FoD isn't very good vs Peach or Falco so don't try it
But against Fox and Marth it's pretty cooool
Munerato - Last Monday at 1:39 PM
for some reason statistics show otherwise (regarding taking marth to YS)
I mean, if you only count super high lvl matches
by the way Marth's oos heatmap seems incredibly exploitable from below
2 moves stand out when talking about hitting that angle
ftilt and dsmash
hahaha
Jagr - Last Monday at 1:50 PM
Seeeeems good :eyes:
Babbaloo in the Shadaloo - Last Monday at 5:09 PM
what do u mean @Munerato ?
u mean marth's oos options are exploitable when he's on a plat?
also @LiquED do u think FD is really good for Luigi against Marth?
LiquED - Last Monday at 5:25 PM
not particularly. It has clear downsides. But I don't think it's unreasonable for certain marths to ban it instead of FD
Babbaloo in the Shadaloo - Last Monday at 5:26 PM
instead of DL u mean
LiquED - Last Monday at 5:43 PM
Yeah oops
Munerato - Last Monday at 5:51 PM
I mean that marth's "scoopable" through certain moves if you predict his OOS timing
Babbaloo in the Shadaloo - Last Monday at 5:54 PM
oh, yeah
marth's oos game is not bad, but it's weird
fair is fast, but it's from top to bottom
bair is a little slower but has a ton of range and scoops upwards
upB is fast but it only hits, like, directly in front of him i believe
dair is fast and actually covers behind him pretty well but super unsafe if it whiffs or is shielded
shieldgrab is shieldgrab, lolz
CactusIzzy - Last Monday at 8:43 PM
yo, what do yall usually do when a marth up throws u??
Cameron | Slips - Last Monday at 8:44 PM
pray
CactusIzzy - Last Monday at 8:46 PM
lolol
Slyfincleton - Last Monday at 8:51 PM
find a way to the ledge, hopefully with platforms
but mostly pray tbh
if they go too far in you might be able to dair them
don't count on it though
Jagr - Last Monday at 8:54 PM
Bait a bad upair and jump away, then fast fall nair immediately
Like if they miss the rising upair you can jump away on reaction then dair them
Also pray
CactusIzzy - Last Monday at 8:57 PM
ahh ok so its pretty much take a bait/trade for positioning/stage
by mixing up your fall
and pray
Slyfincleton - Last Monday at 8:59 PM
its still heavily in the marth's favor obviously
but there are a few things you can try
Jagr - Last Monday at 9:04 PM
Such as the above
Also, if you're going to fast fall with a nair, use the weak hitbox, meaning you should start nairing as soon as you initiate the fastfall(edited)
Because then you L cancel it and combo with a fair or dair or upsmash and potentially get a few more hits too rather than just strong nairing them too far away(edited)
However, if the Marth is at obvious kill percetage then just use the strong hitbox

Slyfincleton - Last Monday at 9:13 PM
strong hitbox is first 7 frames iirc
January 17, 2017
Jah Ridin' - Yesterday at 2:39 AM
DL is definetly the best stage against marth imo (and the only good one)
When you get jusggle, it s better to well time a dair instead of nair just because the hitbox is way more disjointed and you dont stuck in the attack for 40 frame like the nair if the marth bait you.
To fall down, you have to mixup the drift in the air (left-right), the fastfall timing (or no ff). Tornado brakes you ff, but if you use it just after you DJ, it cancels it and give in few frame you max fall speed (normal fall speed, not ff).
there s still airdogde, that can be used to dodge a upair, and the marth will be forced to give you a qick hit, so maybe a fair that you can DI proprely to get out of the juggle
Munerato - Yesterday at 7:11 AM
Nair's disjoint happens on the first few frames
Great tips jah <3
Munerato - Yesterday at 4:14 PM
Can Luigi marthkiller marth?
Michael Palmiter (Eclipse) - Yesterday at 5:16 PM
He should be able to.
Kevin de Bruyne - Yesterday at 5:36 PM
Marthkiller?
Burnin Taco - Yesterday at 5:39 PM
You sit right at the ledge of the stage with your back facing off stage and hold light shield back and down (just back for fast fallers) and when Marth tries to up-b, it hits your shield, you fall off stage and grab the ledge before he can
if he up-b's high, then he lands on stage for an easy punish from the ledge
Kevin de Bruyne - Yesterday at 5:42 PM
Ahhhh ok, thanks a lot for clarification
Burnin Taco - Yesterday at 5:43 PM
:thumbup::skin-tone-3:
Pretty Yin Pink - Yesterday at 5:53 PM
Alright, I'll give this place 1 more hour before we archive it, so get your last words in!
(Or until N actually gets it done himself smh)
Cameron | Slips - Yesterday at 5:56 PM
I hate all of you and your stupid big swords
Kevin de Bruyne - Yesterday at 5:57 PM
Don't blame us blame the developers for making him busted :^)
One more thing
What is marth's best tool for dealing with wd down smash or forward tilt approaches
Cameron | Slips - Yesterday at 5:57 PM
d-tilt
Kevin de Bruyne - Yesterday at 5:57 PM
retreating nair?
Oh
Cameron | Slips - Yesterday at 5:59 PM
nair is also good
PPU spams it vs Ka in his set at TBH
iirc anyway
ilovebagelz - Yesterday at 6:18 PM
What do you do vs marths that cc and space dtilt
Cameron | Slips - Yesterday at 6:20 PM
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ryan (MarVeL) - Yesterday at 6:58 PM
Jump then Down-B and go at 'em. If you start the down b in the air you'll gain a hitbox at your feet that will clank with the down tilt and then you'll hit Marth.
If the Marth is below 50% or so though he'll not suffer enough hitstun or be sent far enough away and is capable of hitting you before you can hit him/get out of the way
Burnin Taco - Yesterday at 7:00 PM
Also if the Marth is just camping you, you can always throw out fireballs
While they're not the most effective projectile, he will probably get hit by a few
Pretty Yin Pink - Yesterday at 7:12 PM
(ah gdi N hasn't set up everything for us to archive this yet)
(Gotta wait for him smh smh)
ilovebagelz - Yesterday at 7:20 PM
People like tai and taj just fair through my fireballs
:(
But their worth throwing out every once ina. While you rite
Munerato - Yesterday at 8:21 PM
Dtilt is good but you can cc it right back(edited)
January 18, 2017
kingkiller - Today at 7:02 AM
Isn't it safe on cc though?
Munerato - Today at 7:39 AM
Depends on the %
Usually,if marth gets hit first, Luigi is able to get at least 2 dsmashes
Because he can cc it back
Babbaloo in the Shadaloo - Today at 9:04 AM
Yeah, Marth dtilt is actually very CCable
Munerato - Today at 10:20 AM
yeppers
Jah Ridin' - Today at 11:55 AM
you can clank dtilt with jab
Burnin Taco - Today at 1:10 PM
Wait really?
Jah Ridin' - Today at 2:34 PM
I 'm not sure, but i guess it does clank but with the tipper
Burnin Taco - Today at 3:33 PM
wow I didn't know that
Glad N hadn't archived this yet lol