[14:05:21] &yuki ♪: Alrighty guys
[14:05:25] &yuki ♪: Welcome to the workshop
[14:05:37] &yuki ♪: We'll be leaving this on whitelist so we can discuss thoughts about the team and the teambuilding process
[14:05:52] &yuki ♪: if you have any questions at all, feel free to dm me or one of my lovely helpers (Helios of Sun and Jomatoes)
[14:06:03] &yuki ♪: and we'll address them here
[14:06:20] @t04ster: so based
[14:06:28] &yuki ♪: Because of how Series 10 is, a Restricted Pokemon (i.e. box legends) are mandatory, so I'm gonna put up probably the best 10 in the format in a poll and let you guys pick what we build first
[14:06:44] Jomatoes: epic list?
[14:07:15] +Dreamcatcher UwU: vote Xerneas :P
[14:07:28] +Galarian Birds OU: Why not do Kyogre
[14:07:29] +Galarian Birds OU: :)
[14:07:35] @Katy: Best is, we make a Poll
[14:07:43] Jomatoes: All ogre teams are the same
[14:07:47] A poll was started by yuki ♪.
[14:07:47] @Katy: and we go w what the majority wants
[14:08:32] Helios of Sun: Am I allowed to vote as well?
[14:08:33] Helios of Sun: lmao
[14:08:35] &yuki ♪: sure you are
[14:09:27] &yuki ♪: I can already tell I am going to have to do another poll to break ties
[14:09:43] Helios of Sun: man.
[14:09:45] Jomatoes: Lets go donny
[14:09:53] @Katy: everyone is allowed to vote
[14:09:55] &yuki ♪: let's say 1 more minute
[14:09:56] Helios of Sun: donny is quite fun to build
[14:10:35] &yuki ♪: Xerneas is also fun to build
[14:11:00] @Katy: If there are any Questions about why we chose Pokemon A or Set A feel free to ask the staff members the questions, they can direct them to the VGC experts so they can get answered properly
[14:11:04] +Galarian Birds OU: Is Donny Groudon
[14:11:09] Helios of Sun: yes
[14:11:15] Helios of Sun: We have a winner
[14:11:17] &yuki ♪: Team 1: Xerneas.
[14:11:19] +Coolcodename: Xern moment
[14:11:20] &yuki ♪: Thanks for breaking the tie
[14:11:20] Jomatoes: King xern
[14:11:30] @Katy: xerneas incin
[14:11:33] @Katy: easy
[14:11:33] &yuki ♪: So let's briefly touch on Xerneas, and how the hell this thing became good again
[14:11:47] &yuki ♪: No Dynamax means setup is a lot more potent now, and Geomancy is about as potent as it gets
[14:11:51] @t04ster: /announce feel free to pm me or any room staff and any questions / suggestions will be submitted to the room
[14:12:08] @Katy: dynamax also reduces the defensive counterpla towards Xerneas
[14:12:14] @Katy: like no dyna
[14:13:08] &yuki ♪: There's one main Pokemon that likes to hurt Xerneas a hell of a lot, and that's Zacian-C.
[14:13:13] &yuki ♪: So a few thing become fairly mandatory when building for Xerneas: counterplay into Zacian-C, a redirector (Rage Powder or Follow Me), and then things to provide coverage as Xerneas (in VGC) only runs Fairy-type moves
[14:14:00] Helios of Sun: When we talk about counterplay to Zacian-C there are a few ways that this can be done.
[14:14:19] @Katy: Volcarona / Amoonguss
[14:14:24] @Katy: are great redirectors
[14:14:28] Helios of Sun: ^
[14:14:32] &yuki ♪: It's mostly Fire-types that Zacian is otherwise going to struggle to break, or it's going to be Intimidate cycling it with things like Incineroar
[14:14:59] &yuki ♪: So starting with the Xerneas set I think
[14:15:01] &yuki ♪: !code
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 84 HP / 4 Def / 164 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Geomancy
- Protect
[14:15:20] Jomatoes: I like amoongus as redirection more, tends to stick around longer and doesn’t rely on burning urshifu on the first surging strike to win a matchup
[14:15:21] &yuki ♪: This spread allows Xerneas to survive a Kyogre Water Spout
[14:15:31] &yuki ♪: Amoonguss has grown on me a lot as well in recent times
[14:15:53] Helios of Sun: Amoonguss is a really good redirector in the format due to the nature of the Pokemon in it.
[14:16:03] &yuki ♪: so I'd be really happy to start there as a good redirector
[14:16:09] Helios of Sun: Yeah same
[14:16:25] &yuki ♪: Redirection just lets Xerneas get its Geomancy up a lot safer
[14:16:37] &yuki ♪: Amoonguss in particular gives you a really good answer to the Xerneas mirror
[14:16:53] &yuki ♪: With Clear Smog being able to remove opposing Xerneas' boosts
[14:16:54] @Katy: ^^
[14:17:12] @Katy: I think we can go amoonguss here, since it has more to provide for xern as support
[14:17:33] &yuki ♪: [19:17] Pixxels VGC: It gives better match up against trick room too Very true, given that Stakataka is one of the principle answers to Xerneas, it's not uncommon to see Trick Room setup
[14:17:54] &yuki ♪: Question for me is what item are we thinking for Amoonguss
[14:18:11] Helios of Sun: Common items for Amoonguss include Occa Berry and Mental Herb
[14:18:20] &yuki ♪: I kinda like Red Card right now, but Occa Berry and Mental Herb are good
[14:18:29] Helios of Sun: Red Card is also interesting
[14:18:58] Jomatoes: i really like helmet
[14:19:16] Jomatoes: that way you punish zacian better
[14:19:25] Helios of Sun: Helmet is very good against Urshifu and Zacian
[14:20:07] Helios of Sun: Well, three musketeers moment.
[14:21:46] &yuki ♪: !code
Amoonguss @ Occa Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 124 Def / 148 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Pollen Puff
- Rage Powder
- Clear Smog
[14:22:00] &yuki ♪: So this is a fairly decent Amoonguss spread
[14:22:14] &yuki ♪: Occa Berry plus that bulk lets it take a Life Orb Groudon Heat Crash in the Sun
[14:24:06] Jomatoes: Is important so you can get a spore off into that slot or its partner
[14:24:06] &yuki ♪: And it can naturally live things like Focus Sash Tornadus Hurricane fairly comfortably
[14:24:07] Helios of Sun: Ahh okay. That looks pretty good.
[14:24:07] &yuki ♪: Pollen Puff is decent for keeping the team healthy here, but other options can include Foul Play as an additional measure for strong Physical attackers like Zacian-C while also hitting Calyrex-S or Grass Knot that deals significant damage to targets like Groudon or Kyogre
[14:24:14] &yuki ♪: whew.
[14:24:19] &yuki ♪: That was some lag
[14:24:31] &yuki ♪: is there anything I need to repost?
[14:24:34] Helios of Sun: I thought PS crashed lol
[14:24:42] Jomatoes: BACK
[14:25:25] Helios of Sun: Pixxels VGC: does pollen puff go through protect?
[14:25:25] Jomatoes: I think incin should be a guarantee on xern teams
[14:25:28] &yuki ♪: No
[14:25:30] &yuki ♪: it doesn't
[14:25:47] Helios of Sun: I also agree with Incin almost being a guarantee on Xern Teams
[14:25:50] &yuki ♪: Incin is pretty much mandatory for Xerneas teams
[14:26:04] &yuki ♪: double down into Zacian-C as much as possible because it's just that much of an issue for us
[14:26:21] &yuki ♪: Physically or Specially Defensive here?
[14:26:22] Helios of Sun: One way we discussed about Xern being able to set up Geomancy is using redirection, but another way is through Faking Out a Crucial target to let Xerneas Geomancy
[14:26:38] Jomatoes: Also fakeout, intimidate, parting shot, taunt, snarl
[14:26:45] Jomatoes: infinite utility
[14:26:50] &yuki ♪: Incineroar has far too much utility
[14:26:51] Helios of Sun: I personally like Physically Defensive Incineroar more lately
[14:26:55] &yuki ♪: and it's a really centralising mon
[14:27:07] Jomatoes: Yep
[14:27:52] &yuki ♪: !code
Incineroar @ Figy Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 4 Atk / 156 Def / 84 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Fake Out
- Parting Shot
- Darkest Lariat
[14:28:26] &yuki ♪: [19:27] Pixxels VGC: Physically defensive to live cc from mienshao and zacian-c
[14:28:26] &yuki ♪: If I wanted to go for the Mienshao answer, I think I'd be going a fair bit higher on def but I can I find the point where it works
[14:28:52] Jomatoes: Xern + amoong seems enough for mienshao
[14:29:08] &yuki ♪: it should be
[14:29:13] &yuki ♪: this is a 15/16 to live anyway
[14:29:25] Helios of Sun: One more thing, Zacian recently have also been running Close Combat in order to target down the Physically Bulky Incineroars.
[14:29:58] Helios of Sun: So just expect the build to survive a +1 Sacred Sword from Zacian, but not a Close Combat
[14:30:09] &yuki ♪: Beating the CC Zacian-Cs is just about good positioning, and also having the ability to keep Amoonguss about in front of it while you can cycle an Intimidate
[14:30:25] Helios of Sun: ^
[14:30:28] &yuki ♪: This basically fills out the fundamental core of any Xerneas team: Xerneas, Redirector, Incineroar
[14:31:36] Jomatoes: What follows is splashable mons that check common threats
[14:31:37] &yuki ♪: I think the next Pokemon I would really like to add is Urshifu-R. It gives us a solid defensive backbone type-wise, while also adding an answer to opposing Incineroar and Stakataka
[14:32:00] Helios of Sun: Yeah that's fair.
[14:32:37] Helios of Sun: Stakataka has been a bigger problem for Xerneas teams recently primarily because of the rise of Safety Goggles on it.
[14:32:55] Jomatoes: I love bulky mystic water ursh
[14:32:56] &yuki ♪: [19:32] Arxtric: G-Zapdos does the same thing
[14:32:56] &yuki ♪: Yes and no. Surging Strikes is kinda just that good right now, especially being able to have a bit of counterplay into Sub mons and Landorus
[14:33:06] &yuki ♪: Also, the type combination is really good with this route
[14:33:53] Helios of Sun: Mystic Water Ursh is really nice yeah.
[14:34:26] Jomatoes: Leaves us with a strong fwg core that can game in almost every mu
[14:34:38] &yuki ♪: Are people still using Kunal's spread mostly for that?
[14:34:38] Helios of Sun: ^
[14:34:47] Jomatoes: Ye
[14:34:49] Helios of Sun: I think Kunal's spread is still great
[14:34:49] Jomatoes: i use it atleast
[14:34:50] &yuki ♪: !code
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Mystic Water
Ability: Unseen Fist
Level: 50
EVs: 140 HP / 236 SpD / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- Aqua Jet
- Detect
[14:35:14] +zeefable: I've been running a faster one recently
[14:35:17] Helios of Sun: If I recall correctly, this spread is to survive Feint + Astral Barrage from Calyrex Mienshao
[14:35:23] &yuki ♪: So this lets you live Assault Vest Rillaboom Grassy Glide, Xerneas Dazzling Gleam I think 15/16 of the time, and Calyrex-S Astral Barrage + Mienshao Feint
[14:35:24] Helios of Sun: zee!
[14:35:28] +zeefable: 204 puts you above landorus-t and most other bulky urshifu
[14:35:57] &yuki ♪: I'm the opposite kekw, I've been running a slower one
[14:36:37] Jomatoes: I like fast ursh but the bulk is sogood
[14:36:42] &yuki ♪: I think this is kinda the best of both worlds, thanks to its really favourable calcs with the bulk
[14:36:57] &yuki ♪: while Mystic Water + Adamant allows its Surging Strikes to hit harder than Jolly Sash with max Attack
[14:38:08] &yuki ♪: Last 2 pokemon have a few good ideas that can be brought in
[14:38:08] Helios of Sun: I personally am not an EV spread person, but I really like the survivability of this Urshifu in particular
[14:38:24] &yuki ♪: I think Regieleki is probably a really safe choice that I'd suggest here
[14:38:49] Helios of Sun: Regieleki sounds good
[14:39:13] &yuki ♪: Takes on Kyogre well while also just dealing a lot of damage because it's a Regieleki. Also having another idea for pivoting thanks to Volt Switch gives you that positional edge into both Calyrex-S and Zacian-C which can be tough
[14:39:19] Helios of Sun: One of the key threats to Xerneas teams is Nihilego, and Regieleki lets you have the speed control to let Urshifu outspeed it after -1
[14:39:55] Jomatoes: On that note I also think that lando-I is good
[14:40:07] &yuki ♪: [19:39] Pixxels VGC: some mons to take in count would be Landorus-I and Eleki
[14:40:07] &yuki ♪: this will definitely be covered :)
[14:40:23] &yuki ♪: Needs to also be mentioned
[14:40:29] &yuki ♪: By using bulky Mystic Water Urshifu-R
[14:40:41] &yuki ♪: we get to use Focus Sash Regieleki, mitigating its otherwise poor bulk
[14:40:48] Helios of Sun: ^
[14:40:55] &yuki ♪: !code
Regieleki @ Focus Sash
Ability: Transistor
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Electroweb
- Volt Switch
- Protect
[14:41:04] &yuki ♪: I could see Landorus-I or Landorus-T in the last slot, I like both
[14:41:22] Helios of Sun: I think both address key threats to Xerneas well
[14:41:29] Helios of Sun: I personally am a bigger fan of Landorus-T
[14:41:48] Jomatoes: Eleki is p self explanatory, there is really only one set that is good for sash
[14:41:51] Helios of Sun: Because it gives a stronger Intimidate core against Zacian
[14:42:53] &yuki ♪: I like double Intimidate, but I also love how Landorus-I is going to be extremely annoying to a lot of mons including Rillaboom with Sludge Bomb. I think I'd probably argue in favour of it as well just for also being able to deck Nihilego, Regieleki and I think it plays better into Eternatus
[14:42:54] Jomatoes: Lando I gives an immediate threat against zacian though, which we have none of
[14:43:06] Helios of Sun: that's true
[14:43:23] &yuki ♪: !code
Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Substitute
- Protect
[14:43:30] Helios of Sun: On that note, I would also suggest Entei
[14:43:41] Helios of Sun: Though it could be problematic for Eternatus matchup
[14:43:55] Jomatoes: I love sub lando
[14:44:05] &yuki ♪: Sub Lando is probably the best for a team like this
[14:44:10] Helios of Sun: I think Sub Landorus I is really epic
[14:44:27] &yuki ♪: Other teams may run Rock Slide or Stone Edge to better deal with Fire-types, but I think we have enough counterplay into them with Urshifu-R and Regieleki that we can just run Sub
[14:44:41] Helios of Sun: Yeah I agree
[14:44:48] &yuki ♪: I also don't think we're completely decked by them, though Snarl/Roar Incineroar and Struggle Bug Volcarona can be annoying
[14:45:03] Helios of Sun: Struggle Bug Volcarona is very annoying for this team
[14:45:10] Helios of Sun: For sure
[14:45:26] Jomatoes: Def manageable
[14:45:51] Jomatoes: You can just click sub before you get struggle bugged right
[14:46:00] &yuki ♪: Yeah
[14:46:01] Jomatoes: Or just spore the volc
[14:46:03] &yuki ♪: also we have Spre
[14:46:05] &yuki ♪: Spore8
[14:46:05] Helios of Sun: yeah
[14:47:03] Jomatoes: That’s 6 right
[14:47:07] &yuki ♪: uhh yeah
[14:47:18] &yuki ♪: https://pokepast.es/d0569a2d85e91197 anything pressing we're missing?
[14:47:31] &yuki ♪: or any set changes you wish to recommend?
[14:47:50] @Katy: for me it looks good
[14:48:09] Helios of Sun: Or if you have questions about the team, also feel free to ask.
[14:48:09] Jomatoes: I love king xern
[14:48:37] &yuki ♪: I'll leave it floating for a couple of minutes before we start the poll for team 2
[14:49:16] %trace: is there any specific matchup where you'd have to watch out w that team
[14:49:38] &yuki ♪: I mean, even with the Zacian-C counterplay
[14:49:40] &yuki ♪: Zacian-C
[14:49:47] Jomatoes: Broken dog
[14:49:51] &yuki ♪: It's so broken
[14:49:56] &yuki ♪: but it's manageable
[14:49:56] +Galarian Birds OU: Broken confirmed.
[14:49:58] &yuki ♪: i think Eternatus
[14:50:11] Jomatoes: Just crit it
[14:50:13] &yuki ♪: Your main way through Eternatus is keeping it from boosting too far
[14:50:16] %trace: lmao
[14:50:16] &yuki ♪: If it's Meteor Beam
[14:50:17] &yuki ♪: Oh well
[14:50:20] &yuki ♪: just win
[14:50:24] &yuki ♪: you have a lot of good tools
[14:50:32] %trace: i think meteor beam eternatus have good matchup ye
[14:50:36] &yuki ♪: Get one Geomancy up, you're really good into it because it doesn't have boosts to defensed
[14:50:37] %trace: but guess you can just outplay anw
[14:50:44] &yuki ♪: Landorus-I is going to be more potent
[14:50:49] +Galarian Birds OU: Looks cool.
[14:50:51] &yuki ♪: and Amoonguss can just be annoying with Clear Smog and Spore
[14:50:55] +Galarian Birds OU: But I’m not a VGC Player.
[14:50:57] &yuki ♪: [19:49] ApronVGC: amoonguss looks incredibly hard
[14:51:15] Helios of Sun: I don't disagree with that
[14:51:26] +Galarian Birds OU: Oh yeah
[14:51:29] Jomatoes: Lando can deal with amoongus p effectively though
[14:51:48] &yuki ♪: Lando can deal with it, a boosted Xerneas + Incin can be good
[14:51:55] Helios of Sun: Landorus and Incineroar is proably the 2 answers the team has against Amoonguss
[14:51:56] %trace: and ig maybe like opposing roar inci / whirlwind or struggle bug volc seems like annoying to the team
[14:51:58] &yuki ♪: But the worry ofc is that Amoonguss has been popping up a lot lot more on Zacian
[14:52:03] %trace: but it should be doable still
[14:53:19] Helios of Sun: Any more questions / comments?
[14:53:24] Jomatoes: Lando games a lot more then people give it credit for
[14:53:45] Helios of Sun: yeah
[14:54:00] &yuki ♪: I suppose an idea is Taunt Incineroar over Darkest Lariat, but I wouldn'
[14:54:09] &yuki ♪: feel so comfortable into Calyrex-S
[14:54:29] +T3ch Thieves: whats the idea of darkest lariat over knock or snarl
[14:54:35] &yuki ♪: Knock Off isn't legal
[14:54:35] Helios of Sun: Knock Off unfortunately
[14:54:38] &yuki ♪: Lariat just OHKOs it
[14:54:38] Helios of Sun: doesnt exist in VGC
[14:54:48] &yuki ♪: Snarl is a fine option too
[14:54:52] Helios of Sun: The two other moves that can compete are Snarl and Throat Chop
[14:55:05] &yuki ♪: !code
[19:54] ApronVGC: I think that's kind of the reason why a lot of xern teams are double fire
[19:54] ApronVGC: like xerns good to neutral mu into ogre and other special restricteds means you can afford to run 2 fires to break the broken steel dog and get rid of amoonguss while you're t it
[14:55:07] Helios of Sun: I personally like Throat Chop the best, but Darkest Lariat is also a fine option
[14:55:29] &yuki ♪: Yeah this is basically just using Volcarona as the redirector and bringing in Rillaboom over (usually) Landorus or Regieleki
[14:56:08] &yuki ♪: I think if you're going for Amoonguss though, Landorus, +2 Xern and Incineroar is the best compromise for the opposing Amoonguss
[14:57:05] Helios of Sun: That's fair
[14:57:10] &yuki ♪: So to summarise with this team: the whole objective is to get Xerneas setup with Geomancy, via either Rage Powder from Amoonguss or Fake Out from Incineroar.
[14:57:28] &yuki ♪: Urshifu-R gives us a good defensive backbone, while also being able to answer annoying checks such as Incineroar, Stakataka and Nihilego
[14:57:50] &yuki ♪: Regieleki and Landorus-I give us immediate pressure options that deal significant damage into plenty of Pokemon in the meta
[14:58:43] Jomatoes: Ok I gotta go, gl friends
[14:58:48] +Galarian Birds OU: Bye.
[14:58:50] &yuki ♪: Thanks for being around gamer Jomatoes
[14:58:57] Helios of Sun: cya Jom
[15:01:25] A poll was started by yuki ♪.
[15:03:32] @t04ster: is the final team the most recent yuki paste
[15:04:55] &yuki ♪: https://pokepast.es/d0569a2d85e91197 yeah this is team 1
[15:05:08] @t04ster: neat
[15:05:16] @Katy: i have team1 saved
[15:05:19] @Katy: in case
[15:05:53] Helios of Sun: get your votes in Everyone!!
[15:07:41] &yuki ♪: looks like we're building Eternatus
[15:07:42] Helios of Sun: Looks like Eternatus is the winner!
[15:07:44] &yuki ♪: zee, you about?
[15:09:00] &yuki ♪: So there are 2 main ways to go with Eternatus
[15:09:05] &yuki ♪: Meteor Beam and Cosmic Power
[15:09:23] Helios of Sun: Both ways have their merits and downsides
[15:09:31] &yuki ♪: Meteor Beam obviously has the advantages of being a fair bit more aggressive, being able to boost its Special Attack right away
[15:09:41] Helios of Sun: I think Meteoer Beam is the better one in general
[15:09:43] &yuki ♪: Cosmic Power is just extremely annoying, likes playing late into the game
[15:09:46] Helios of Sun: ApronVGC: life orb
[15:09:58] Helios of Sun: This is another set I've seen a few times recently in higher ladder
[15:10:34] &yuki ♪: I think Meteor Beam is likely the most used
[15:10:42] Helios of Sun: Same
[15:10:51] Helios of Sun: You wanna work with that today?
[15:10:54] &yuki ♪: Yeah let's go for it
[15:11:00] Helios of Sun: Sounds good.
[15:12:57] &yuki ♪: !code
Eternatus @ Power Herb
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
[15:13:04] &yuki ♪: So this is the starting point for Eternatus
[15:14:23] &yuki ♪: The bulk easily lives Zacian-C's Behemoth Blade and Calyrex-S's Astral Barrage
[15:14:51] Helios of Sun: Eternatus is naturally quite bulky already thankfully, so not much investments are needed to take the hits more comfortably
[15:15:06] &yuki ♪: Speed generally outruns all the things in the 170ish range like Landorus-I, as well as -1 Regieleki
[15:15:09] Helios of Sun: So we can focus more on putting more EVs into Special Attack and Speed
[15:16:08] &yuki ♪: I think like most teams in the meta, the next couple of slots are going to be focused on setting the team up nicely while providing good utility and offense
[15:16:11] #Yellow Paint: what about base 110 area?
[15:16:24] &yuki ♪: 110 hits 178, this hits 185
[15:16:31] #Yellow Paint: ah gotcha
[15:16:53] &yuki ♪: I think the Speed is just a generalisation while also being able to overspeed -1 Eleki
[15:17:00] &yuki ♪: because 184 is only really Whimsicott iirc
[15:17:05] #Yellow Paint: yeah makes sense
[15:17:11] Helios of Sun: yeah
[15:17:15] Helios of Sun: So
[15:17:35] Helios of Sun: I think there are a few ways we can approach building this team
[15:17:41] Helios of Sun: I feel that some good points to start with when building Eternatus teams, is to find Pokemon that counter its 2 primary threats in the metagame, being Calyrex-Shadow and Zacian
[15:17:54] &yuki ♪: (And Groudon)
[15:18:00] &yuki ♪: (Especially Groudon)
[15:18:01] Helios of Sun: Groudon as well, mb
[15:18:18] #Yellow Paint: incin seems like a good start then?
[15:18:19] &yuki ♪: I think the best Pokemon for the job are Rillaboom and Incineroar.
[15:18:23] Helios of Sun: There is also Landorus-I as we mentioned earlier in the Xerneas build
[15:18:29] Helios of Sun: I agree
[15:18:30] &yuki ♪: They're just far too universally good
[15:18:42] #Yellow Paint: easy first adds lol
[15:18:56] #Yellow Paint: thoughts on kart instead of rillathough?
[15:19:02] &yuki ♪: !code
Incineroar @ Figy Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 4 Atk / 4 Def / 236 SpD / 28 Spe
Careful Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Parting Shot
- Snarl
- Fake Out
[15:19:09] &yuki ♪: Rilla is just better tbh
[15:19:13] Helios of Sun: The problem with Kartana is that it really doesn't accomplish as much as Rillaboom
[15:19:14] &yuki ♪: the bulk alone
[15:19:16] #Yellow Paint: yeah fine
[15:19:18] #Yellow Paint: fake out op
[15:19:19] &yuki ♪: as well as double Fake Out
[15:19:24] Helios of Sun: It doesn't really kill much and doesn't have Fake Out
[15:19:36] &yuki ♪: Specially Defensive Incineroar here because we want as good a matchup into things like Xerneas as possible
[15:19:41] Helios of Sun: Ah fair
[15:19:45] &yuki ♪: in particular, this spread will live a +2 Xerneas Moonblast
[15:19:56] Helios of Sun: oh nice
[15:19:57] #Yellow Paint: is heatran a thing?
[15:20:00] Helios of Sun: nope
[15:20:01] &yuki ♪: Not really
[15:20:08] Helios of Sun: Unfortunately it doesn't have Eruption
[15:20:12] &yuki ♪: It's bad against just about every Restricted bar Xern
[15:20:23] #Yellow Paint: good against etern
[15:20:30] #Yellow Paint: but yeah maybe something with a stronger incin matchup as well?
[15:20:37] #Yellow Paint: because incin rilla of our own
[15:20:45] &yuki ♪: Yeah there's a couple options
[15:20:56] &yuki ♪: !code
Rillaboom @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 140 Atk / 12 Def / 108 SpD / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Grassy Glide
- Wood Hammer
- U-turn
[15:20:57] #Yellow Paint: meteor beam is nice but not a reliable answer
[15:21:28] Helios of Sun: Yeah I agree with these 2
[15:21:32] Helios of Sun: good spreads in general
[15:21:42] &yuki ♪: Rillaboom is able to take an Astral Barrage really nicely
[15:21:58] &yuki ♪: and it's a range on Behemoth Blade
[15:22:00] #Yellow Paint: yeah av is nice, and etern isn't like totally awful against zac
[15:22:03] &yuki ♪: more HP can be used
[15:22:10] &yuki ♪: to live a Behemoth if needs be
[15:22:13] #Yellow Paint: with intim bonus
[15:22:16] &yuki ♪: [20:21] Arxtric: Landorus-I can deal with Rilla and Incine if used right, might wanna add Urshifu-R
[15:22:16] Helios of Sun: yeah
[15:22:23] &yuki ♪: Landorus-I is currently good into all of our mons
[15:22:28] Helios of Sun: yeah
[15:22:30] &yuki ♪: so Urshifu-R is a completely fine addition
[15:22:31] #Yellow Paint: opposing rilla matchup is excellent
[15:22:35] #Yellow Paint: so yeah urshi fits fine
[15:22:47] Helios of Sun: I honestly am quite tempted to do it
[15:22:51] &yuki ♪: Nobody will be surprised when I say
[15:22:53] Helios of Sun: You know what okay
[15:22:54] &yuki ♪: It's the same Urshifu as before.
[15:22:55] Helios of Sun: Suicune
[15:23:04] &yuki ♪: Oh god... say your piece on it
[15:23:14] &yuki ♪: I won't immediately say no because it's getting used more
[15:23:19] Helios of Sun: Tailwind is actually surprisingly nice on Eternatus teams from my experience
[15:23:33] #Yellow Paint: lmao suicune
[15:23:39] Helios of Sun: Having Snarl is also incredibly good against Calyrex-Shadow
[15:23:44] &yuki ♪: I think just to differentiate from the other team more
[15:23:46] Helios of Sun: one of Eternatus's key weaknesses
[15:23:51] &yuki ♪: Suicune is going to be completely fine
[15:23:55] &yuki ♪: I think if we play Snarl Suicune
[15:23:56] Helios of Sun: Also does really well into Landorus-I
[15:24:00] &yuki ♪: Roar Incineroar is going to be an option
[15:24:09] &yuki ♪: else Snarl Incin + Roar Suicune
[15:24:13] Helios of Sun: Oh yeah 100%
[15:24:21] &yuki ♪: one way or the other, phasing and damage reduction is going to be a part of what's going on
[15:24:30] &yuki ♪: do you have a Suicune spread?
[15:24:30] #Yellow Paint: yeah suicune makes it more interesting
[15:24:34] &yuki ♪: because I do not
[15:24:36] Helios of Sun: I'll just use Mew Mew
[15:24:41] #Yellow Paint: nice
[15:24:43] &yuki ♪: yeah I don't have Mew Mew
[15:24:53] Helios of Sun: !code
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 12 SpA / 100 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Snarl
- Tailwind
- Icy Wind
[15:24:57] #Yellow Paint: and yeah if suicune I'm assuming we want something else to take advantage of speed control
[15:24:59] #Yellow Paint: maybe our own lando i
[15:25:32] Helios of Sun: This is the default spread, Ice Beam I think is a fine option to straight up kill Landorus-I
[15:25:40] &yuki ♪: I think that'll be something I'd consider for the last slot (I'm alluding to Regieleki here)
[15:26:30] Helios of Sun: On the topic of Urshifu, I'd actually suggest Urshifu Dark here
[15:26:34] &yuki ♪: And this inclusion again gives us the same solid backbone defensively
[15:26:59] &yuki ♪: I don't like Urshifu-S on Etern, makes you super reliant on all the other pieces to win reliably against Xerneas
[15:27:08] Helios of Sun: that's fair
[15:27:36] &yuki ♪: I think there's a few Pokemon I'd consider for the final 2 slots
[15:27:50] #Yellow Paint: is it okay vs xern if urshi dark?
[15:27:51] &yuki ♪: Things that either cover up matchups or improve immediate pressure
[15:28:07] &yuki ♪: I would usually favour the Xern player if it's Etern Urshifu-S
[15:28:31] Helios of Sun: Yeah agree
[15:28:33] &yuki ♪: Just because the answers to Xerneas itself aren't actually reliable (it's just Etern for the most part)
[15:28:41] &yuki ♪: and the rest of the team will disrupt you
[15:28:46] #Yellow Paint: I think xern paired with redirect/fake out
[15:28:50] #Yellow Paint: would still be very threatening yeah
[15:28:58] #Yellow Paint: what kinda steel to pick?
[15:29:01] &yuki ♪: So a few Pokemon I am considering for the last 2 slots
[15:29:13] &yuki ♪: Landorus-I, Regieleki, Ditto, Celesteela
[15:29:26] #Yellow Paint: celest sounds good imo
[15:29:33] Helios of Sun: I like Celesteela
[15:29:45] &yuki ♪: If we play Celesteela, Suicune will probably have to take a Wiki Berry
[15:29:58] Helios of Sun: We still have Sitrus at our disposal
[15:30:29] &yuki ♪: we'll go with that
[15:30:57] &yuki ♪: !code
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 92 Def / 172 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Leech Seed
- Wide Guard
- Protect
[15:31:14] &yuki ♪: Celesteela is really reliant on being able to get Leech Seed up and winning the endgame through attrition
[15:31:22] Helios of Sun: Yeah
[15:31:56] Helios of Sun: I think for the last mon, its going to be somewhat offensive
[15:31:57] #Yellow Paint: again I think there needs to be a legit attacker
[15:32:01] Helios of Sun: Yeah
[15:32:07] #Yellow Paint: to actually justify using suicune as well
[15:32:18] #Yellow Paint: celest/incin/suicune is really durdly
[15:32:34] Helios of Sun: It's a very stall based game with the core we have thus far
[15:32:43] &yuki ♪: Yeah that would be the issue here
[15:32:52] &yuki ♪: [20:32] Arxtric: Quiver Dance Volcarona?
[15:32:52] &yuki ♪: Is okay but it lacks immediate pressure
[15:33:16] &yuki ♪: the last few I wanted to suggest initially were Regieleki to deal with Kyogre a bit better, because otherwise Torn is going to pressure your Rillaboom and you're looking a little bit shaky there
[15:33:51] #Yellow Paint: torn ogre seems scary yeah
[15:33:53] &yuki ♪: and then last slot either Landorus-I for good immediate pressure and improving the Zacian-C matchup further, or alternatively trying out Ditto as a method to beat boosted Xerneas as well as significantly improving both Lunala and Calyrex-S
[15:34:03] #Yellow Paint: lando i doesn't help with torn ogre at all
[15:34:06] Helios of Sun: TornOgre is actually not too awful with Suicune stopping offense
[15:34:17] &yuki ♪: No but Etern, Eleki, Rilla, Suicune
[15:34:18] &yuki ♪: is a good mode
[15:34:19] #Yellow Paint: gonna rely a lot on etern imo
[15:34:32] &yuki ♪: I wouldn't run Celesteela if we want the best possible matchups
[15:34:33] #Yellow Paint: yeah I meant needs eleki
[15:34:44] &yuki ♪: I think if we wanted Celesteela, we'd have to go with Urshifu-R
[15:34:48] &yuki ♪: else our immediate pressure drops so far
[15:34:50] &yuki ♪: !code
egieleki @ Focus Sash
Ability: Transistor
Level: 50
[15:34:53] &yuki ♪: Same eleki as before
[15:34:57] &yuki ♪: except this time misspelled
[15:35:04] Helios of Sun: oof
[15:35:07] &yuki ♪: !code
Regieleki @ Focus Sash
Ability: Transistor
Level: 50
[15:35:23] &yuki ♪: https://pokepast.es/16ec05cc70839a93 effectively I would be running this 5
[15:35:29] &yuki ♪: plus either Ditto or Landorus-I
[15:35:56] Helios of Sun: I think Ditto or Landorus-I would be fine options for the last mon
[15:36:08] &yuki ♪: let's poll it
[15:36:18] #Yellow Paint: eleki vs celest you mean?
[15:36:22] &yuki ♪: nah
[15:36:24] #Yellow Paint: or just eleki + last mon
[15:36:44] &yuki ♪: With Snarl + Roar Incineroar + Etern + Lando/Ditto
[15:36:50] &yuki ♪: you've got a Xerneas mode
[15:36:52] &yuki ♪: Snarl Suicune*
[15:37:11] A poll was started by yuki ♪.
[15:37:11] Helios of Sun: I think the answers to Xerneas is quite a lot already
[15:37:13] #Yellow Paint: that's reasonable with that in the back yeah
[15:37:28] #Yellow Paint: etern is gonna be a pick most of the time anyways
[15:37:53] &yuki ♪: Does anyone want me to explain what Ditto does?
[15:38:08] &yuki ♪: I really hope you don't need me to explain what Ditto does.
[15:38:09] #Yellow Paint: go ahead for the chat
[15:38:13] #Yellow Paint: maybe talk about impostor mechs?
[15:38:24] &yuki ♪: Ditto is basically just a catch all for a lot of the Restricted Pokemon
[15:38:32] Helios of Sun: There actually are some interesting Impostor mechanics
[15:38:35] &yuki ♪: With Impostor, it's basically able to situationally transform into any Pokemon the opponent has
[15:38:39] &yuki ♪: So for the Zacian-C matchup
[15:38:43] &yuki ♪: you would transform with the Atk boost
[15:38:45] #Yellow Paint: impostor keeps hp but loses all other stats
[15:38:47] &yuki ♪: and then Intrepid Sword triggers again
[15:38:48] #Yellow Paint: always replaces opp
[15:38:53] #Yellow Paint: err, opposite opp
[15:39:01] &yuki ♪: So you get a +2 Ditto with a Scarf and Behemoth Blade
[15:39:09] &yuki ♪: which is really threatening
[15:39:16] Helios of Sun: It is very scary to face that
[15:39:21] #Yellow Paint: the restricteds also tend to be pretty tanky even with ditto hp
[15:39:27] &yuki ♪: You can also copy Xerneas that has already boosted with Geomancy, outspeed it and challenge it with Moonblast
[15:39:32] #Yellow Paint: so you don't get too threatened by like rilla
[15:39:35] #Yellow Paint: as ditto-xern
[15:39:47] &yuki ♪: And copying Calyrex-S immensely improves that matchup
[15:39:53] &yuki ♪: Because you get a Scarf Astral Barrage
[15:39:56] #Yellow Paint: though you can't protect on a fake out
[15:40:00] &yuki ♪: and you can start gaingin As One boosts
[15:40:00] #Yellow Paint: which is a big weakness of it
[15:40:14] Helios of Sun: Are we going with Ditto now for sure?
[15:40:20] Helios of Sun: I have a spread for it
[15:40:23] &yuki ♪: !poll
[15:40:23] #Yellow Paint: !poll display
[15:40:25] &yuki ♪: it's just relaxed
[15:40:26] #Yellow Paint: is the ditto spread not
[15:40:27] #Yellow Paint: 252 hp
[15:40:29] Helios of Sun: !code
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Transform
[15:40:41] Helios of Sun: It survives neutral Moonblast
[15:40:43] #Yellow Paint: yeah looks like ditto wins that one
[15:40:44] Helios of Sun: from Xerneas
[15:40:47] Helios of Sun: LOL
[15:40:50] &yuki ♪: does it really?
[15:40:51] #Yellow Paint: wait really
[15:40:52] Helios of Sun: yes
[15:40:53] &yuki ♪: ffs
[15:40:58] &yuki ♪: ofc it does...
[15:41:23] &yuki ♪: I've generally gone Relaxed, it's really really rare you can't Impostor
[15:41:29] &yuki ♪: and the times you can't
[15:41:33] &yuki ♪: you've probably loist
[15:41:40] Helios of Sun: fair
[15:41:48] &yuki ♪: it's minimal gains at best
[15:41:53] &yuki ♪: But I would be happy to use Sassy just for that
[15:41:54] #Yellow Paint: what's relaxed get again?
[15:42:01] Helios of Sun: I have Sassy for minimum speed for Incineroar
[15:42:06] #Yellow Paint: is it just for the pinch berry
[15:42:11] #Yellow Paint: or ditto mirror or something
[15:42:12] &yuki ♪: Sassy is for Ditto duels!
[15:42:15] #Yellow Paint: ah
[15:42:15] &yuki ♪: or uhh
[15:42:16] &yuki ♪: 0 Spe
[15:42:22] &yuki ♪: because you do not want to Struggle first.
[15:42:32] &yuki ♪: it's super rare that you're not transformed and you lose
[15:42:32] Helios of Sun: yes
[15:42:35] #Yellow Paint: if you transform while scarfed, do you get screwed?
[15:42:43] &yuki ♪: Well you just transform
[15:42:52] Helios of Sun: you can pick a move after that
[15:42:54] #Yellow Paint: nah I meant on the scarf lock
[15:42:54] #Yellow Paint: ah ok
[15:43:17] Helios of Sun: So it looks like we have our final team
[15:43:18] &yuki ♪: https://pokepast.es/96e33540ab8b7a68 in the end
[15:43:20] &yuki ♪: This would be team 2
[15:43:42] &yuki ♪: We got 2 Power Herb restricted mons
[15:43:47] Helios of Sun: Does anyone have any questions regarding the Eternatus team?
[15:43:50] #Yellow Paint: anyone in the chat have any thoughts etc?
[15:43:54] #Yellow Paint: or suggestions
[15:43:58] &yuki ♪: We'll field questions, suggestions etc.
[15:44:01] &yuki ♪: then we'll run a tour
[15:44:04] #Yellow Paint: yup
[15:44:21] &yuki ♪: In fact I will open the chat for it
[15:44:35] Helios of Sun: Any questions?
[15:44:50] #Yellow Paint: ah yeah that's easier
[15:44:51] &yuki ♪: Team 1 (Xerneas): https://pokepast.es/d0569a2d85e91197
[15:44:51] &yuki ♪: Team 2 (Eternatus): https://pokepast.es/96e33540ab8b7a68
[15:44:58] #Yellow Paint: and yeah we're pretty much almost done
[15:45:04] #Yellow Paint: do we wanna summarize gameplans for both maybe?
[15:45:16] #Yellow Paint: just how the teams would be used
[15:45:22] &yuki ♪: Oh uhh, I kinda did for Xern but Eternatus I'll hand off to Helios
[15:45:23] Arxtric: How do you deal with Landorus If Suicune is not sent out first on team 2
[15:45:51] #Yellow Paint: more likely than not you'll still have double fake out
[15:46:03] #Yellow Paint: a* fake out
[15:46:06] Helios of Sun: Often times you will be leading Suicune
[15:46:22] Helios of Sun: Primarily because of its ability to set up Tailwind
[15:46:26] #Yellow Paint: I really don't see a case where you're not leading fake out or suicune
[15:46:28] &yuki ♪: !code
So to summarise with this team: the whole objective is to get Xerneas setup with Geomancy, via either Rage Powder from Amoonguss or Fake Out from Incineroar. Urshifu-R gives us a good defensive backbone, while also being able to answer annoying checks such as Incineroar, Stakataka and Nihilego. Regieleki and Landorus-I give us immediate pressure options that deal significant damage into plenty of Pokemon in the meta.
[15:46:54] #Yellow Paint: I believe rilla also tanks sludge bomb from lando pretty well
[15:46:57] #Yellow Paint: I think it win the 1v1
[15:47:01] Helios of Sun: it does
[15:47:21] #Yellow Paint: even like etern + rilla should kill lando without any disruption
[15:47:26] Helios of Sun: most landorus do not carry much bulk
[15:47:38] Helios of Sun: so if you double glide it most likely it will be taken out
[15:47:56] Cheesy Burrito Cat: Hi
[15:48:12] &yuki ♪: I'll do proper writeups for this in a bit
[15:48:33] #Yellow Paint: thanks yuki
[15:48:41] #Yellow Paint: and yeah I guess for the etern squad
[15:48:42] &yuki ♪: do you want a paste with the workshop in?
[15:48:48] &yuki ♪: because I have showjoins on!
[15:48:51] #Yellow Paint: nah I'll get that done myself
[15:48:54] #Yellow Paint: I use chatlog etc
[15:48:57] &yuki ♪: yeah fair
[15:49:04] #Yellow Paint: but yeah for etern squad
[15:49:09] #Yellow Paint: main attackers are etern and eleki
[15:49:11] &yuki ♪: rough start time was 19:05 +1
[15:49:25] #Yellow Paint: rilla and incin do their usual thing
[15:49:38] #Yellow Paint: suicune is our own speed control and can also roar out oppsing trick room quite well
[15:50:00] #Yellow Paint: disrupt opps and try to snowball/protect etern
[15:50:06] &yuki ♪: Incineroar does the Roaring, but yeah you can swap Roar and Snarl between Incin and Suicune
[15:50:15] Helios of Sun: yeah
[15:50:16] #Yellow Paint: ah yeah that bit is interchangeable
[15:50:33] #Yellow Paint: I prefer roar separate from fake out user, but snarl suicune is so much better
[15:50:43] &yuki ♪: Snarl makes Suicune respectable
[15:50:49] &yuki ♪: because if you have Roar
[15:50:52] #Yellow Paint: otherwise they can usualyl ignore suicune
[15:50:53] &yuki ♪: ultimately you're speed control
[15:50:55] &yuki ♪: and not doing much else
[15:50:58] #Yellow Paint: yeah I buy it
[15:51:12] #Yellow Paint: they would have to risk faking out an incin slot if tr
[15:51:23] #Yellow Paint: and worst case can do rilla fake out + incin roar
[15:52:15] #Yellow Paint: anyways, if there's no other questions, we can leave it here
[15:52:18] #Yellow Paint: and start our tour
[15:52:24] #Yellow Paint: thanks for coming!
[15:52:34] Helios of Sun: Thanks for hosting! Was a great pleasure to be here
[15:53:04] #Yellow Paint: /announce Team 1 (Xerneas): https://pokepast.es/d0569a2d85e91197
[15:53:04] #Yellow Paint: Team 2 (Eternatus): https://pokepast.es/96e33540ab8b7a68
[15:53:41] #Yellow Paint: also all compliments go to yuki, I fell asleep and only came in like halfway through
[15:55:16] &yuki ♪: and obviously a huge thanks to both Jomatoes and Helios
[15:55:50] #Yellow Paint: of course