API tools faq
paste
Advertisement
hayzlenut

Untitled

hayzlenut
Sep 4th, 2017
154
0
Never
Add comment
Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!
text 15.37 KB | None | 0 0
raw download clone embed print report
  1. ==============================| View Job 2969 |==============================
  2. Bucket: REQ Due On: Mon Sep 11 07:56:35 2017
  3. Title: Risk on Annie Status: Yellow (New)
  4. Opened On: Mon Sep 04 07:56:35 2017 Assigned To: Nobody
  5. Opened By: George
  6. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  7. [1+] George added on Mon Sep 04 07:56:35 2017: So there was a scene last night where George recieved....news about Annie. Steps are going to need to be taken and the question of what risk level I would need to force a sterilization procedure on her and steal her baby. http://pastebin.com/qEtHd56S
  8. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  9. [2-] FennecFox added on Mon Sep 04 09:11:36 2017: Okay.. As annoying as Annie is.. This sorta smells thick with conflict of interest. Andy suggesting/reminding the Elders what Eloise can do and possibly 2 more alts involved in the issue?
  10.  
  11. Regardless. This conversation is dancing all over the Litany. Jake should lose renown for his suggestion of sterilizing a kin. (That is inflicting a 4pt Flaw) The others should lose like amounts for supporting this as a good idea. The Silent Striders lost a good amount of kin during the 20th century. Sterilizing one with any pure breed would be anathema especially with how there are less and less Garou or Kin in general being born true.
  12. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  13. [3-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 09:28:26 2017: Andy didn't remind anyone of anything. Jake suggested the tubal. Andy was reporting the information he'd gotten through Lucie to be able to inform Journey and George about things. The only thing Alecto is going to do is listen and take ANnie's story. Andy is not going to be able to make it to the interview, for obvious reasons. I don't see how I could have left that out. If there were other Philodoxes around, I would have sent her to them instead. But there aren't. With Annie's history, with the not just annoyance, but actual harm she has caused, they would probably be just as happy to KILL her. Shu was a Silent Strider too, remember?
  14. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  15. [4-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 09:33:14 2017: In fact, the moving the child was offered as an option to Annie by Eloise directly
  16. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  17. [5-] FennecFox added on Mon Sep 04 09:45:30 2017: Falling to the Wyrm vs Falling to the Dumb is very different things. Killing Shu (who went BSD) is worth renown. What actual serious crimes against the Nation has Annie committed? Why hasn't she been put under the care of a Garou? If she has, then why has that Garou not been punished for not keeping a better eye on their problematic kin? Remember, the Garou make Pro-Lifers look sane. They're in a war of attrition. Depriving a Kin of their ability to breed is akin to leaving a mixed race child out for exposure to protect your family's reputation.
  18. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  19. [6-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 09:49:35 2017: Shu had been 'redeemed' when he was killed. Do you not remember ANnie's history and how she was almost banned for all the dumb? This could juts as easily be a risk 3 request. That's what I suggested they do. It's too much. SHe's a BURDEN, both IC and OOC. They COULD just send her away to Zoe land. That works for me too.
  20. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  21. [7+] WhoopingCrane added on Mon Sep 04 09:52:23 2017: Mail sent to George:
  22.  
  23. Staff discussion is in progress. Without going into too much detail: Annie getting pregnant /by itself/ is a good thing. The Garou Nation needs more kinfolk-or-maybe-even-Garou. The problem is Annie's capacity to do stupid shit afterward.
  24. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  25. [8-] WhoopingCrane added on Mon Sep 04 09:54:24 2017: That said, there should probably be a query to Annie along the lines of: 'What do you actually plan to do with this kid? Adoption by PC/NPC Gaians = OK. Adoption by anyone else = Annie probably gets run outta town on a rail to Zoe-land.' (Based on Dusk's log, Yuri clearly assumes 'adoption by Gaians', but Yuri may or may not be correct on that front.)
  26. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  27. [9-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 09:55:37 2017: That scene has already happened. NPCs. Gaian NPCs, yes. But if we're talking about canon here, yuri doesn't get much of a say in the matter and really neither does Annie
  28. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  29. [10-] FennecFox added on Mon Sep 04 10:02:58 2017: Shu was a combatant that had betrayed Gaia. This is a non-combatant. Sending her off to a kinfolk convent/handler IE removal from play = Fixed problem. Killing her = Renown Loss. Even the SUGGESTION to sterilize her = Renown Loss. Actually doing it? Lots of renown loss, spirit notoriety and bad feelings from at least 2 tribes.
  30. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  31. [11-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 10:04:50 2017: So.. WC.. Grant the Risk 3. I do NOT, however, think that the suggestion of sterilization is renown-loss worthy. There have been plenty of DISCUSSIONS that should have a lot of the Garou knocked back to cub.
  32. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  33. [12-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 10:05:33 2017: Might be loss by canon, but we haven't held anyone else to those standards, so they shouldn't hold here either
  34. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  35. [13-] WhoopingCrane added on Mon Sep 04 10:07:31 2017: Well, unless Annie is pregnant with a wolf cub, the game won't last long enough for the kid to grow up enough to do their duty to the Nation. So the kid's destination is just a matter of IC principle.
  36.  
  37. Question is, does removing the magic birth control device + saying stupid shit + past history of saying/doing stupid shit = enough ICA to merit the ICC of 'removed from play and sent to Zoe-land'? Is it ICly known that Annie and Tabia are ICly hooking up? If so, then an intermediate step would be 'ding Tabia's renown and see how Tabia reacts'. Maybe the bar for Zoe-land should be 'absolutely no Garou PC will take your side and risk losing renown for your stupid shit'.
  38. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  39. [14-] WhoopingCrane added on Mon Sep 04 10:08:27 2017: If Annie was /actually/ planning to give the kid to a non-Gaian, then I would agree Zoe-land made sense, but we've established that's not the case. Sounds like George and company just assumed it was likely because Annie is a dumbass.
  40. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  41. [15-] FennecFox added on Mon Sep 04 10:09:54 2017: The inability of players to report violations and the fact that we as staff can't monitor every scene does not change suggesting an action that is a violation of the tenets of Glory (I shall protect the weak) and Wisdom(I shall be Prudent, I shall be merciful). It would count as being Giving bad advice for -2 wisdom.
  42. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  43. [16-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 10:13:07 2017: Bad advice? Absolutely.
  44. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  45. [17-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 10:15:20 2017: They didn't assume anything. They know that it's gaian NPCs. Seriously, though. Can we just send her away? Because it's just going to be something ELSE. And then something ELSE. She's a detriment to the RP and we're just going to have to deal with something ELSE later. Over and over and over and over and over. We're tired of it.
  46. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  47. [18-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 10:17:29 2017: And we have assigned garou to her. Several times. The PLAYER ends up not playing because they can't OOCly handle the bullshit and ICly realize what a fucktard she is. She has Garou Lore 3. She isn't ignorant of the way things are supposed to be. She SHOULD have been killed the day she went off on Journey.
  48. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  49. [19-] WhoopingCrane added on Mon Sep 04 10:28:03 2017: Okay, so I skimmed the log, George is aware of Tabia's off-and-on situation with Annie, but the sentiment seemed to be roughly 'Tabia would probably ditch her rather than take renown hits for her'.
  50.  
  51. More generally, I think there's a reasonable case here for: 'Extensive history of creating problems that the Nation has to spend time and effort solving. Ditching birth control indicates that she's unfixable.' but I'd like to get approval from the Loyal Opposition (FF) first. I will also suggest 'disappear to HM' as an alternative, which she turned down once before (I think as Annie), but this time it would be 'this is now your only alternative to Zoe-land'.
  52. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  53. [20+] George added on Mon Sep 04 10:31:36 2017: And involving the human legal process with the termination of parental rights paperwork. Breaching Nation protocol by involving Yuri in her mess at all when she should have gone to the den father or the truthcatcher. And her pattern of prior bad acts and proven unreliability.
  54. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  55. [21-] WhoopingCrane added on Mon Sep 04 10:31:56 2017: Also, I would make it clear to her and Vera (and Hamish is also in HM to keep an ear out) that HM would not gain any intel on Prospect Gaian PCs from Annie, and if Annie strays outside the HM sandbox and Prospect Gaian PCs ICly learn about it then it's right back to Zoe-land with no further appeal.
  56. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  57. [22-] WhoopingCrane added on Mon Sep 04 10:33:48 2017: Also, what George just said in comment 20. That protocol is relatively complex, but it /is/ written down and has gone through a few rounds of editing, and there's a difference between 'tried to follow it and got mixed up' vs 'flat-out ignored it and also has extensive history of dumbery'.
  58. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  59. [23-] FennecFox added on Mon Sep 04 17:36:09 2017: That isn't 'Nation Protocol'. That's Sept protocol and sorta silly but workable. Also I don't see it posted anywhere outside of the Elder's board. Also she jumped the line and went to Yuri.. Who didn't send her back down to do it properly and instead took up her cause. Don't like it? Go challenge Yuri. Also she lives in the city so while the Garou might not give a fuck about mortal law she in fact has to. One of the duties of kinfolk is to interact with human systems.
  60.  
  61. Ship her off to HM. Ship her off to Zoe-land. Either I am fine with. My earlier "WTF?! Dishonor on your cow!" was over people being okay with acts that are anethema to the Garou.
  62. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  63. [24-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 17:39:32 2017: The Yuri issue has been addressed, more or less. Annie went to talk to Alecto today. Alecto just informed Annie 'Yuri's part in this is done for now. If paperwork needs to be addressed, we will do so at that time.' Right now, fuck paperwork. Wehave to figure OTHER shit out.
  64.  
  65. (Last 2 comments of 2940, since it's relevant here:) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  66. 5- HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 14:11:10 2017: Well, I'm TRYING to hand shit off as Andy. That's why he has the council. Alecto, who is much more relevant to this situation, may actually be the one to need this. MOSTLY, it's just 'We may need to make sure that Dusk wasn't overstating things' in case someone goes to Yuri and is like 'Hey, dick. Don't overstep. You're MoC. This has nothing to do with you.' I don't THINK it'll come to that, but the facts may need to be there IC regardless. So it might be Alecto who looks into this, rather than Andy. HOPEFULLY Andy's out of it and the rest can be done through Lucie on the council
  67. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  68. 6- HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 14:41:27 2017: Howls-at-High-Moon shakes her head. <<Do not be sorry. Raising human children is both a blessing and a burden. Some are more inclined in one direction than the other. Yuri's involvement in this, however, is finished for the time being. If there needs to be paperwork done later, you and I will inform him of such.>>
  69. ================================| Job 2940 |=================================
  70. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  71. [25-] WhoopingCrane added on Mon Sep 04 17:42:17 2017: For completeness, the protocol is also posted at http://coh.spork.com/index.php?title=GarouKinfolkConflictResolution. Which currently the only inbound link is from George's character page, but I basically told him 'go make this more prominent'. I thought it had also been posted to Garou General and/or Gaian General, but maybe not.
  72. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  73. [26-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 17:43:20 2017: It was. It was discussed. It probably fell off
  74. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  75. [27-] FennecFox added on Mon Sep 04 17:55:51 2017: Should get it pinned then. Can't expect people to follow it if it isn't publicly posted.
  76. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  77. [28-] WhoopingCrane added on Mon Sep 04 17:59:42 2017: Okay, so we're agreed that the top brass has risk 3 escalation on Annie. (Her next alt is a different matter, but we'll deal with that if/when it appears.)
  78.  
  79. I suggest we ask George to run it by bb 63, ask who's on board with shipping Annie off to Zoe-land (with OOC note that she may nope off to HM first), and then go with majority opinion of those who respond within a week. If majority opinion is yes, then we present Annie with the OOC ultimatum.
  80.  
  81. If the majority opinion isn't yes, then things get a bit murkier. While the on-board PCs should be able to hunt down and incap Annie without breaking a sweat, that doesn't mean that Zoe-land is automatically on board with taking her in. PKing Annie is also an option, but with heavy renown loss. Another possible option is to ICly impose tighter restrictions (e.g. magical chastity device that she can't remove on her own, magical prohibition against doing a specific form of stupid shit) and see if she shapes up, finds new stupid shit to do (prompting a fresh round of debate), or OOCly raegquits the alt.
  82. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  83. [29-] HoneyBadger added on Mon Sep 04 21:07:24 2017: They want to sterilize her. Alecto is the one who is going to just say 'This is what we're doing. Opposed? Challenge me.'
  84. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  85. [30-] WhoopingCrane added on Mon Sep 04 21:14:07 2017: Seems reasonable. Maybe they hadn't considered Zoe-land as an option. Maybe that'll prompt them to come up with a third option that Alecto agrees with, idk.
  86. ================================| Job 2969 |=================================
Advertisement
Add Comment
Please, Sign In to add comment
Advertisement
Public Pastes
Advertisement
We use cookies for various purposes including analytics. By continuing to use Pastebin, you agree to our use of cookies as described in the Cookies Policy.  OK, I Understand
Not a member of Pastebin yet?
Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!