LogicSandwich

R1M17 Quality Delibs

Dec 1st, 2023
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  1. Judge Asana (Logic)
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  3. “El Classico” refers to two separate but similar match dynamics: “Melee vs Ranged” and “Rushdown vs Scaler,” both of which are similar to the “Rushdown vs Zoner” dynamic. The overlap between all three results in some collapsing between them that isn’t inaccurate, but misses some nuance that affects how people view particular matchups.
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  5. The third dynamic follows from the trade-offs made by its participants: the rushdown character trades short range for damage, speed, or defense while zoners trades defense for range. Consequently, the zoner wants to ward off and wear down the rushdown character with ranged attacks, while the rushdown character wants to rush the zoner down and pummel them with overwhelming pressure.
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  7. “Melee vs Ranged” and “Rushdown vs Scaler” build on this dynamic, but it’s important to note the logistical axes which they highlight from the original “Rushdown vs Zoner” dynamic. “Melee vs Ranged” is about 「spacing」, where both sides must jockey for positioning to damage their opponent and mitigate received damage, while the “Rushdown vs Scaler” is about 「timing」, where the Rushdown character wants to end the match before the Scaler’s relative power overwhelms them.
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  9. As mentioned before, the overlap between dynamics and the characters means these analytical frameworks can overlap—the Melee player is similarly incentivized to end the match as quickly as possible lest they lose by attrition—but hewing too closely to the “wrong” framework for a match can bias one’s analysis. After all, one can imagine a melee character scaling to the point where they can overwhelm a ranged character.
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  11. I bring this up because this match is defined by 「spacing」 but *moderated* by 「timing」. The class at the center of the map prevents movement, forcing players to kit and play around the edges, but enables some projectiles for setplay. Moreover, the various kinds of lighting and cover encourage both players to establish and reevaluate their position relative to each other and their surroundings. The comparative ranges of both (SPW’s C RGE to GIoia’s E) emphasize the importance of positioning.
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  13. However, note the power curves of each competitor, especially in the interactions between each. One might say that SPW scales harder, given its need to plant its seeds in various locations—especially to harness the natural vs artificial light—which is facilitated by the natural tankiness provided by 3 END and Plant Creature 5. However, by her A POW paperization, Gioia can not only destroy plants and terrain, but can also terraform the stage in her immediate grasp. Depending on how they play, SPW or Gioia can “outscale” their opponent through their own Competency/Planning/Logistics or Counterplay. Atop this is the 60-10 cycling, which halts the action, rewarding players who position properly and punishes those who don’t—to return to the fighting game comparison, you can risk being hit with a meaty attack on green light.
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  15. This match enables “rushdown-scaler” dynamics, but it is more “tempo” than “haste.” Success turns on how the strats’ circumspect and respect for positioning, more than how effectively SPW can stave off Gioia from bumrushing it—after all, the straight line between their initial positions has been blocked off.
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  17. While I think the strategies occasionally lose their strategic thrust thread in juggling all the match elements, for reasons that largely derive from the lengthy preamble, my scores for both strats nonetheless sit at a high [8]s. (Planning/Competency/Logistics/Counterplay) I give high praise along those axes to both teams, and what follows is higher (but still relevant) scrutiny in order to highlight the exceptionally competent strating.
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  19. IMPACT plays a kiting game, using the rafters to maintain 3D positional advantage as they move through the stage. The meat of the strategy is set up in the first section (Planning) before elaborated upon with “higher-order” Tech (Technical), Anti-Rushdown, and Mobility before culminating with a finisher. Even if I think some of the moment to moment interactions could be tightened, it’s a fundamentally robust framework. (Logicistics/Comptency)
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  21. I will admit that I have some skepticism of the temperature interactions—largely the strength of the resulting wind currents and whether C PRE is sufficient to control the light refraction—but even mitigated efficacy is still ultimately cogent. Devoting multiple beams/mirages to cover larger areas might be more persuasive, but I’m more willing to broaden the temperature ability meta in a way not seen since T4.
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  23. Speaking of T4, hello Gioia, hope you enjoyed your sabbatical.
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  25. The approach is reminiscent of the Fairy Fellers the ballerina has grown from, maintaining aggression while assuming the worst case scenario at every step. What elevates the strat from simple rushdown, however, is the recognition that Gioia can terraform as she moves, turning where she’s been into her own defense and positioning advantage state—not dissimilar from her R6M3 win against Kaito. As the scaler states, time is on her side.
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  27. That said, I have some skepticism as well. Yes, A SPD 4 AGI is fast, but you are doing a lot at once: moving through the stage; reforming floorboards, tarps, equipment; countering any flowers—simply as a matter of positioning, I struggle to see you terraformed the “entire East half (<180 square meters) of the map” in the opening seconds of the match. (Planning/Logistics) While the statement is rhetorically effective that only affects a forgiving timescale, such overestimation can impact the mechanical expression of a thesis and thus affect Quality. Specificity and prioritization in how you go about this “scaling” would better leverage your strength.
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  29. I’m also skeptical (but less materially so) of some of the Counterplay claims, namely jamming the flower/using the flashbang against SPW. While logical constructions and ramifications of how abilities work is fair game for Techincal/Counterplay, it must be rooted in the text, and the interaction here leans somewhat on a “worst case” construction/reading (presuming a reactable cast time of an at-will activation). A SPD is fast, but I don’t think it’s “preempt at will light-explosion” fast. Remember. overwhelming strengths have limits and benefit from specificity.
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  31. As stated earlier, I focus on these concerns because I maintain that both strats are fundamentally impressive in how they deal with the challenges the matches provide in their own unique ways. On the whole, they “execute their central theses well while not leaving behind what it needs to be functional.”
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  33. Judge Pranayama (Flamechar)
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  35. The match mechanic for this deathmatch is simple: don’t get caught fighting by Minali! Before getting into things, I have got to praise both strategies for their strong Narratives each (more in Jojolity on that)
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  37. Starting with SPW-11465, its opening moves are to move up above the rafters using a flower - each flower being tracked so as to remain in limit (Logistics) - and setting up more flowers on itself and the map before firing beams at Gioia.
  38. Good Counterplay and Technical Understanding is shown in how the beams have been used, with a bunch of great examples in the earlygame alone: the differing strategies for if Gioia is above or below the lights, the usage of mirages both as protection and additional angles of attack, and good adaptability as needed (such as hanging under the lights to increase amount of light used, and the support flowers switching into beams). I do question the strength of the wind currents created by the mix of hot and cold beams, but I don’t think the answer majorly impacts my decision and it remains a cool piece of tech regardless.
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  40. The early-game shows good Planning (priorities being keeping away from Gioia and reaching the South of the map) - its here I will also praise the Formatting of the strategy, with key points or list headers bolded, and line-breaks used to separate mechanics from narrative (as well as each other). This Planning persists along with further Counterplay as different routes are imagined in the case that 11465 is allowed to setup or is alternatively rushed down: the latter dealt with by leaving Gioia in the office with mirages and freezing temperatures quickly warming back up.
  41. The section on dealing with Minali’s gaze is short and sweet (Elegance), followed up by the finisher of a mirage ‘wall’ followed by a trip and a convergence of lasers. I think there’s a slight slip-up of flower count here (Logistics), but overall a really great strat that I enjoyed reading. An **8**!
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  43. Moving onto returning challenger Gioia, I will start off by stating my opinion on the bolded key points is the same as with that in IMPACT’s strat (Readability/Formatting). As for the strat, she starts off with boldly stating the plan at the beginning of ending the match in under a minute, before rushing to disable the fluorescent lights whenever possible to reduce the light sources available as she primarily dashes through equipment to create cover from 11465’s laserbeams using her Stand: as well as then covering up the natural sources with tarp and tape. Further Counterplay is shown in the plan for if SPW manages to plant seeds early on in the south of the map or the rafters, with a fun piece of Tech in paper throwing stars that unfurl into tarps to blanket the flower and cut off its light supply. The Plan and Logistics of this strategy go hand in hand with Counterplay - controlling the map to prevent easy growing of flowers, and taking out any flowers that are made.
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  45. Gioia then plans to get closer to her opponent in order to fight, creating more of her Kickstart Jungle as she moves - both for the prior reasoning and because of how it’s being made to require high levels of ‘athleticism and dexterity’ in order to move through. There may be some overestimation of her agility and Stand speed (especially in regards to the extent of terraforming envisioned), but the tech certainly still works - something I’m not as sure on for paperizing flowers (or at least, those flowers still counting towards the total).
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  47. Now onto the finisher - blocking the plants vision with a paper star unfurling, Gioia folds herself down and sends herself through paper plane straight towards her opponent before emerging right next to them. Time ‘stops’...and then the Stand Rush. With a fun finishing flavor to top it all off this is a really solid strat: while I will also give this one an **8**, with its incredible focus on Counterplay and supported by other very solid elements this strat has makes me believe that if the slight missteps mentioned in the previous paragraph weren’t there I could have given this a 10 - a similar opinion to how impressed I was with the majority of IMPACT’s strat also. Really good work to both teams and I look forward to seeing how you take what you learn from this to create even more incredible strategies.
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  49. Judge Dhyana (Snek)
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  51. Hello everyone! Once again I am very impressed and delighted with the quality of strats for my match! The way everyone approached the obstacle posed by Minali’s attention and mostly unresolved anger issues was great, as was the narrative posed by both strategies. As such, I won’t be able to say much that wasn’t already covered by the other two judges. In fact, I will end up giving both strats the same scores, including a high [8] for both their quality.
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  53. First for SPW, my wonderful creature. This is a wonderfully realized strategy that has a great grasp of flow and positioning, solid counterplay, and incredibly creative use of abilities. The focus on practical aerodynamics really drew some great use out of the flowers, in ways that helped bolster a varied offensive strategy and counter various actions that Gioia could take. The emphasis on using the arena to your advantage through the rafters was great, as was the alternative play with the office. You built a great zoner, and this strat reflects that.
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  55. Overall, this was a fun, clear read that made good use of the many aspects of the creature’s kit in order to create a robust strategy. The only part that left me wanting was the ending, which set up an interesting maneuver with the mirages and beams, but ending a little too abruptly for my liking. Still, on the whole, a really great debut for the creature. The ability to stand toe-to-toe with a T4 veteran is something you should all be truly, deeply proud of.
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  57. Second, for Gioia. I also really liked this strategy as well! Like SPW’s strategy, it reads well, and has a well thought out approach that balances positioning, offence, and counterplay. The Kickstart Jungle is both the core of the strat and the key exemplar of that balance. While, like Flame, I am unsure if Gioia can do everything she attempts to with terraforming, especially at the rate she thinks she can, and *especially* given both Minali’s time limit and her self-imposed one-cycle goal. Still, the idea holds.
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  59. Once again, a varied use of kit which draws on the various aspects of paperization to mould the studio in pursuit of her goal. Like SPW, you nailed what makes your character good at the thing she does, while giving your enemy a suitable amount of respect. While I agree that you might have overemphasized A SPD (as a guy who did the same thing in DG’s R1), and I might have wanted a little more to deal with the match gimmick, I still think this is a strategy to be proud of. Like Soichi before her, I am excited to see an old character with fresh eyes.
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