[07-Mar-20 05:59 PM] Shrug#7659
@jake @levi pablo should be council

[07-Mar-20 06:02 PM] levi#6206
sounds good to me

[07-Mar-20 06:02 PM] levi#6206
what do u think jake

[07-Mar-20 07:36 PM] brewfasa#4532
arena trap is my vote for next suspect

[07-Mar-20 07:36 PM] hongli#4483
me too

[07-Mar-20 07:37 PM] brewfasa#4532
please do not suspect cutie before we deal with trappers

[07-Mar-20 07:37 PM] brewfasa#4532
that’s retarded af

[07-Mar-20 07:37 PM] Shrug#7659
we know my stance here

[07-Mar-20 07:38 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Hm idk, cutiefly doesn’t really need trapper support that much

[07-Mar-20 07:39 PM] Serene Grace#5243
cutiefly broken

[07-Mar-20 07:39 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Evio Qd roost sets hardly need it, seeing as how it beats mareanie

[07-Mar-20 07:39 PM] BurntZebra#8147
And can chip pawniard easily

[07-Mar-20 07:39 PM] Serene Grace#5243
while cutiefly does benefit from trappers, its still broken on its own merits

[07-Mar-20 07:39 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Only good cutiefly answer now is ferroseed, which isn’t really a target for trappers anymore

[07-Mar-20 07:40 PM] hongli#4483
final gambit dig

[07-Mar-20 07:40 PM] hongli#4483
still chips it enough

[07-Mar-20 07:40 PM] hongli#4483
for qt to sweep

[07-Mar-20 07:41 PM] hongli#4483
also evio special dig just kinda ruins ponyta's day

[07-Mar-20 07:41 PM] hongli#4483
if ur running that as ur qt check too

[07-Mar-20 07:58 PM] Ninja#8225
I’d def say cutie over arena trap

[07-Mar-20 07:59 PM] levi#6206
i think cutie over arena too

[07-Mar-20 07:59 PM] Serene Grace#5243
me too

[07-Mar-20 07:59 PM] levi#6206
idt cutie is broken on its offensive merits

[07-Mar-20 08:00 PM] hongli#4483
do you think qt would be like

[07-Mar-20 08:00 PM] hongli#4483
as overpowering as it is rn though

[07-Mar-20 08:00 PM] hongli#4483
in terms of versatility in sweeping and support

[07-Mar-20 08:00 PM] hongli#4483
now that timburr has the free moveslot to run fire punch or pjab

[07-Mar-20 08:00 PM] hongli#4483
over fog

[07-Mar-20 08:00 PM] hongli#4483
since no veils

[07-Mar-20 08:00 PM] levi#6206
it wouldnt be

[07-Mar-20 08:01 PM] levi#6206
its offensive strengths for sure help

[07-Mar-20 08:01 PM] levi#6206
but i think the majority of its brokenness is in its supporting ability (not necessarily a vast majority)

[07-Mar-20 08:01 PM] levi#6206
and it's o.w much more borderline than pinch/dig are

[07-Mar-20 08:03 PM] hongli#4483
i meant like

[07-Mar-20 08:03 PM] hongli#4483
qt's strengths were compounded by being able to switch into one of the best mons in the meta for free

[07-Mar-20 08:03 PM] hongli#4483
without having that option, it's able to get in a lot less safely and isn't able to provide as much support or pressure

[07-Mar-20 08:04 PM] jake#8907
agree on that

[07-Mar-20 08:05 PM] levi#6206
oh wait i was responding to arena trap

[07-Mar-20 08:05 PM] levi#6206
uh

[07-Mar-20 08:05 PM] levi#6206
i think so yea

[07-Mar-20 08:05 PM] levi#6206
burr had anti cutie options if it wanted

[07-Mar-20 08:11 PM] Coconut#8762
cutiefly's the way to go friends

[07-Mar-20 08:21 PM] brewfasa#4532
the evio cute sets lose to all the checks that would be easy to abuse without trappers

[07-Mar-20 08:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
trappers are an ez suspect rn and even if we deem  them healthy we can know it’s just cutie

[07-Mar-20 08:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
u can’t tell me this sub set would be used in a trapperless meta game

[07-Mar-20 08:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
are people thinking it’s broken based on qd?

[07-Mar-20 08:23 PM] Coconut#8762
trappers don't beat eviolite ferroseed

[07-Mar-20 08:24 PM] Coconut#8762
and trapinch can't beat ID Mareanie

[07-Mar-20 08:24 PM] jake#8907
the sub set is designed to set up on stuff like mare

[07-Mar-20 08:25 PM] Coconut#8762
or no steel stab ferroseed

[07-Mar-20 08:25 PM] Coconut#8762
which is only being run for cutiefly btw

[07-Mar-20 08:26 PM] hongli#4483
i mean it's not like iron head is a terrible choice regardless

[07-Mar-20 08:26 PM] Coconut#8762
what's it hitting

[07-Mar-20 08:26 PM] hongli#4483
it's a decent midground and

[07-Mar-20 08:26 PM] hongli#4483
it hits vully

[07-Mar-20 08:26 PM] Coconut#8762
over twave?

[07-Mar-20 08:26 PM] hongli#4483
in addition to letting you actually deal w

[07-Mar-20 08:26 PM] hongli#4483
set up spritz & qdfly

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] hongli#4483
you can run

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] hongli#4483
both

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] Coconut#8762
then you drop hazards

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] levi#6206
usually you run it w another setter

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] hongli#4483
when you need onix/pawn for birds anyways

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] Coconut#8762
or knock

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] hongli#4483
that's not the worst thing ever

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] levi#6206
yea

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] Coconut#8762
neither of which is ideal

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] levi#6206
onix/pawn are p mandatory

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] levi#6206
anyways

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] jake#8907
i drop twave usually

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] Coconut#8762
well that's because

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] Coconut#8762
of the other broken

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] Coconut#8762
rufflet

[07-Mar-20 08:27 PM] jake#8907
ruff is rly good unfortunatley

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] hongli#4483
they'd be mandatory with vull too

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] Coconut#8762
but like unironically

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] jake#8907
unfortunately

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] hongli#4483
but i'd be down to suspect ruff eventually too

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] levi#6206
ruff and vull r both nuts

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] hongli#4483
incredible set variation and it's hard to tell what set it is

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] hongli#4483
based off of team composition alone

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] Coconut#8762
vull's really good but it feels a lot like last gen

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] Coconut#8762
where it was borderline

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] levi#6206
it wasnt borderline last gen

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] hongli#4483
i feel like w.o dig at least

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] Coconut#8762
and probably late suspect worthy

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] levi#6206
is was explicitly broken

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] Coconut#8762
as opposed to right now

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] hongli#4483
vull would be much better to deal w

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] Coconut#8762
while the meta is still fresh

[07-Mar-20 08:28 PM] Coconut#8762
and not a late suspect

[07-Mar-20 08:29 PM] Coconut#8762
you get what I mean by that?

[07-Mar-20 08:58 PM] starmaster#8286
cutie is by far the most broken mon rn

[07-Mar-20 08:58 PM] starmaster#8286
that should be next up

[07-Mar-20 08:58 PM] starmaster#8286
we can give it a week or 2 but yea

[07-Mar-20 08:59 PM] Serene Grace#5243
theres a ladder tour scheduled for this month, would that run concurrently with a suspect

[07-Mar-20 09:07 PM] Coconut#8762
no

[07-Mar-20 09:07 PM] Coconut#8762
ladder tour's laddering portion will be over

[07-Mar-20 09:07 PM] Coconut#8762
by the next suspect

[07-Mar-20 09:17 PM] levi#6206
lets use the ladder tour for the suspect

[07-Mar-20 09:17 PM] levi#6206
as a test run

[07-Mar-20 09:17 PM] levi#6206
well we'd have to make the pool for qualifying for the suspect much bigger than the pool for qualifying for the ladder tour

[07-Mar-20 09:19 PM] Coconut#8762
really not a fan of this idea

[07-Mar-20 09:20 PM] Coconut#8762
like really really really not a fan

[07-Mar-20 09:20 PM] Coconut#8762
of this idea

[07-Mar-20 09:56 PM] jake#8907
we're not gonna do that

[08-Mar-20 12:45 PM] brewfasa#4532
how is the sub set designed specifically to set up on mar

[08-Mar-20 12:45 PM] brewfasa#4532
are u talking to sludge bomb?

[08-Mar-20 12:46 PM] brewfasa#4532
no*

[08-Mar-20 12:46 PM] brewfasa#4532
coz sludge is always breaking your sub

[08-Mar-20 12:46 PM] starmaster#8286
no it just walls mareanie

[08-Mar-20 12:46 PM] starmaster#8286
with qd up

[08-Mar-20 12:46 PM] starmaster#8286
and cant be psnd

[08-Mar-20 12:46 PM] brewfasa#4532
yeah true

[08-Mar-20 12:46 PM] brewfasa#4532
but like u do that without sub

[08-Mar-20 12:46 PM] brewfasa#4532
it’s breaking ur subs

[08-Mar-20 12:46 PM] starmaster#8286
sub just avoids crits more

[08-Mar-20 12:46 PM] starmaster#8286
but yea

[08-Mar-20 12:47 PM] LilyAC#7887
sub is meant to set up on ferro

[08-Mar-20 12:47 PM] brewfasa#4532
yea

[08-Mar-20 12:47 PM] brewfasa#4532
I get that

[08-Mar-20 12:47 PM] LilyAC#7887
but iron head is like super common now

[08-Mar-20 12:47 PM] brewfasa#4532
But also 3 atk ferro is fine

[08-Mar-20 12:47 PM] brewfasa#4532
twave is far from mandatory

[08-Mar-20 12:47 PM] brewfasa#4532
and not running ih is obviously dumb in a cutie meta

[08-Mar-20 12:48 PM] brewfasa#4532
don’t tell me dig can’t trap evio ferro either when we were just talking about serenes final gambit squad lol

[08-Mar-20 12:49 PM] brewfasa#4532
there’s ways

[08-Mar-20 12:49 PM] brewfasa#4532
why we skate around trappers will never make sense to me

[08-Mar-20 12:49 PM] brewfasa#4532
I think we have enough defensive coubcteplay to cutie

[08-Mar-20 12:49 PM] brewfasa#4532
to be manageable

[08-Mar-20 12:53 PM] LilyAC#7887
we have counterplay to cutie itself but web makes it too much imo

[08-Mar-20 01:10 PM] Coconut#8762
its like how things ran hp ice for gligs

[08-Mar-20 01:11 PM] brewfasa#4532
no it’s not

[08-Mar-20 01:11 PM] brewfasa#4532
in the slightest lol

[08-Mar-20 01:12 PM] brewfasa#4532
ur comparing a stab to an hp

[08-Mar-20 01:12 PM] Coconut#8762
okay it's not like that because iron head also hits spritzee

[08-Mar-20 01:12 PM] Coconut#8762
but it's not like ferroseed has run that move often

[08-Mar-20 01:12 PM] Coconut#8762
in the past X gens

[08-Mar-20 01:12 PM] brewfasa#4532
no but doesn’t mean for this meta it’s bad

[08-Mar-20 01:12 PM] brewfasa#4532
just because it hasn’t run it

[08-Mar-20 01:12 PM] LilyAC#7887
iron head has utility vs vull too, especially with bullet seed

[08-Mar-20 01:13 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Iron head basically saw like no usage in Sm though

[08-Mar-20 01:13 PM] Coconut#8762
it hits two broken mons instead of one

[08-Mar-20 01:13 PM] Coconut#8762
good point

[08-Mar-20 01:13 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Which gives an indication of how useful it is outside of dealing with qt

[08-Mar-20 01:13 PM] BurntZebra#8147
I ran gyro ball Ferro at some point in Sm

[08-Mar-20 01:13 PM] brewfasa#4532
we didn’t have the offensive spritz as much or cutie

[08-Mar-20 01:13 PM] Coconut#8762
we still had cm spritz though

[08-Mar-20 01:13 PM] brewfasa#4532
that was so rare

[08-Mar-20 01:13 PM] brewfasa#4532
u didn’t even bother

[08-Mar-20 01:13 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Knock twave bullet seed ferro prob beats spritz regardless

[08-Mar-20 01:15 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Pamplona was running charm cutiefly which seems like an ultra matchup fish since it’s probably only for iron head twaveless ferroseed

[08-Mar-20 01:15 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Unless you can charm pony

[08-Mar-20 01:15 PM] Coconut#8762
speedtie into 2hko anyway?

[08-Mar-20 01:15 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Well you’d qd

[08-Mar-20 01:15 PM] Coconut#8762
ig if webs are up that's something

[08-Mar-20 01:15 PM] BurntZebra#8147
On the swifch to pony

[08-Mar-20 01:15 PM] Coconut#8762
right but without looking at a calc I'm sure that still does half

[08-Mar-20 01:16 PM] Coconut#8762
-4 probably still breaks a sub

[08-Mar-20 01:16 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Yeah idk if it lives -2 flare blitz into a -4

[08-Mar-20 01:16 PM] BurntZebra#8147
If it does, maybe it could be worthwhile

[08-Mar-20 01:16 PM] Coconut#8762
it seems like a fish but if it works in practice it might be worth it specifically for ponyta

[08-Mar-20 01:17 PM] jake#8907
pamplona only builds hyper specific matchup fishes anyway from what i know

[08-Mar-20 01:17 PM] BurntZebra#8147
I ran into it on ladder which seems like not the place to matchup fish

[08-Mar-20 01:18 PM] Coconut#8762
I wouldn't call them matchup fishes

[08-Mar-20 01:18 PM] Coconut#8762
it's more like swiss cheese

[08-Mar-20 01:18 PM] BurntZebra#8147
I guess charm would also be good vs munch

[08-Mar-20 01:18 PM] Coconut#8762
the team has holes, but it's still cheese

[08-Mar-20 01:18 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Although munch has seen no usage in spl since home

[redacted]

[08-Mar-20 01:21 PM] brewfasa#4532
he ran rock wrecker dweb

[08-Mar-20 01:21 PM] brewfasa#4532
to apparently lure and ko an oddish

[08-Mar-20 01:21 PM] brewfasa#4532
on my shitty balance

[08-Mar-20 01:21 PM] Coconut#8762
in gen 8?

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Rock wrecker?

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Is that a move

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] Coconut#8762
that's so sick

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
yes lmao

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
In that set coco

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] BurntZebra#8147
What does it do

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] Coconut#8762
yes rock wrecker is a move

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] levi#6206
I ran iron head in sm

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] Coconut#8762
rock physical hyper beam

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] levi#6206
It’s a good move

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Hm interesting

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
he literally told me it was to lure my oddish idk

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] BurntZebra#8147
That would have worked vs me

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] levi#6206
I love running it with twave especially

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] Coconut#8762
maybe it kills

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] Coconut#8762
after a knock

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] jake#8907
LOL

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
After smash

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] jake#8907
i also ran rock wrecker dweb

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] jake#8907
it's abysmal

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] Coconut#8762
oh so oddish comes in

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] brewfasa#4532
I was never bribing balance vs pamp tho

[08-Mar-20 01:22 PM] Coconut#8762
on a smash

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] brewfasa#4532
yea

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] Coconut#8762
and then it's ohko'd

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] Coconut#8762
by rock wrecker

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] jake#8907
oddish the dwebble answer

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] Coconut#8762
and then you take a fucking pummeling

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] Coconut#8762
by whatever the fuck they have in the back

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] brewfasa#4532
yea

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] brewfasa#4532
lmao

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] BurntZebra#8147
I imagine you could mess up oddish by running sub dwebble

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] Coconut#8762
honestly not the worst thing in the world

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Although sub sort of makes no sense otherwise

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] Coconut#8762
yes, you could do that zebra

[08-Mar-20 01:23 PM] BurntZebra#8147
On a sturdy mon

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] brewfasa#4532
nah just thot it was funny

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] jake#8907
sub smash was a thing tho

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] levi#6206
Sub is probably the best 4th move

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] jake#8907
iirc

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] levi#6206
On ss dweb

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] levi#6206
No?

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] brewfasa#4532
yeah

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] brewfasa#4532
I’d agree

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] brewfasa#4532
sub is good

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] BurntZebra#8147
I’d rather have extra coverage

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] jake#8907
what are your other options even

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] Coconut#8762
I don't like giving up coverage

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Or counter

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] jake#8907
x scissor?

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] levi#6206
Sucker pawn, twaves, popping bj

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] brewfasa#4532
knock counter

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] jake#8907
right knock

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] BurntZebra#8147
Boots dwebble is fun

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] BurntZebra#8147
The new magic guard abra

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] Coconut#8762
rock eq knock

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] Coconut#8762
I'd even run SR

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] jake#8907
shitty abra

[08-Mar-20 01:24 PM] Coconut#8762
if it's not sweeping

[08-Mar-20 01:25 PM] jake#8907
spikes maybe preferable

[08-Mar-20 01:25 PM] levi#6206
Yea but instead of rkilling every fighter and 17 spe mon

[08-Mar-20 01:25 PM] jake#8907
if ur gonna go sr

[08-Mar-20 01:25 PM] Coconut#8762
yeah whatever hazard

[08-Mar-20 01:25 PM] levi#6206
Actually what does dwebble rkill

[08-Mar-20 01:25 PM] levi#6206
Oh vull

[08-Mar-20 01:25 PM] levi#6206
That’s 1

[08-Mar-20 01:25 PM] Coconut#8762
it can counter stuff

[08-Mar-20 01:26 PM] levi#6206
Sure, if your opp forgets it learns the move

[08-Mar-20 01:26 PM] levi#6206
I guess the threat is nice

[08-Mar-20 01:26 PM] Coconut#8762
ok vull's in on the dwebble pre smash

[08-Mar-20 01:26 PM] Coconut#8762
is it optimal to knock

[08-Mar-20 01:26 PM] levi#6206
U gotta knock

[08-Mar-20 01:26 PM] Coconut#8762
then you lost your vull

[08-Mar-20 01:26 PM] Coconut#8762
to counter

[08-Mar-20 01:26 PM] levi#6206
Rblast does like 150

[08-Mar-20 01:26 PM] levi#6206
Ya but dwebs dead

[08-Mar-20 01:27 PM] levi#6206
And unless this was a lead mu it was swapping in

[08-Mar-20 01:27 PM] levi#6206
= worth it overall

[08-Mar-20 01:30 PM] Coconut#8762
if it's abra dwebble

[08-Mar-20 01:31 PM] Coconut#8762
that's a worth it trade

[08-Mar-20 01:57 PM] Coconut#8762
PamplonaToday at 1:56 PM
in the tiering info page it says suspects will only occur every 2 months or so. idk about quickban stuff if they decide to do that instead for cutie

[08-Mar-20 01:57 PM] Coconut#8762
why is that even there

[08-Mar-20 01:57 PM] Coconut#8762
can we remove that

[08-Mar-20 01:58 PM] starmaster#8286
Ya we should

[08-Mar-20 01:58 PM] BurntZebra#8147
yeah doesnt make sense since we're pretty fresh into home still

[08-Mar-20 02:14 PM] levi#6206
Huh

[08-Mar-20 02:15 PM] levi#6206
He misread

[08-Mar-20 02:15 PM] levi#6206
It says right under that we can also nom suspects in between if anyone had pressing concerns

[08-Mar-20 02:16 PM] BurntZebra#8147
why is the first thing a rule

[08-Mar-20 02:16 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i

[08-Mar-20 02:16 PM] BurntZebra#8147
if we can just ignore it

[08-Mar-20 02:16 PM] BurntZebra#8147
at any time

[08-Mar-20 02:16 PM] levi#6206
To make sure discussion exists at all

[08-Mar-20 02:16 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i think its important to trim the fat

[08-Mar-20 02:16 PM] levi#6206
Which fwiw has been problematic before

[08-Mar-20 02:16 PM] BurntZebra#8147
eg remove rules that dont actually get enforced

[08-Mar-20 02:16 PM] levi#6206
Getting to the two months and then deciding nothing is suspect worthy is ok

[08-Mar-20 02:17 PM] levi#6206
But iirc I was interested in holding a periodic formal vote just to make sure

[08-Mar-20 02:17 PM] BurntZebra#8147
i mean yeah like i dont think we would try to suspect something 1 day after something gets banned

[08-Mar-20 02:17 PM] BurntZebra#8147
when that other thing getting banned will alter the meta

[08-Mar-20 02:17 PM] BurntZebra#8147
a lot

[08-Mar-20 02:18 PM] levi#6206
Y