heston

<SpeedEvil> theBear: night/morning
<SpeedEvil> or whatever wierd australian division of time you may use
<heston> so is that giving me joules or amps
<heston> :/ I just want to know how much current I discharged through these caps
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<acetoline> it's evening in NZ
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<TheDevil> lol, everytime I move my laptop, I get disconnected thanks to my usb port being loose and the antenna in the port getting knocked
<heston> sounds like my ethernet port after i kicked out the cable
<acetoline> heston: first it would probably be best to ask yourself exactly what you want to know
<acetoline> do you want to know how much energy is stored? Or how much charge is stored?
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<heston> well energy but in what unit
<heston> i want amps or watts
<acetoline> neither of those are units of energy
<acetoline> amps are units of current. watts are units of power.
<heston> right, so power
<acetoline> it doesn't make sense to ask how much power is stored in a capacitor
<acetoline> power is energy/time
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<acetoline> if you discharge a capacitor rapidly, you get a large amount of power for a short time
<acetoline> whereas if you discharge it slowly, you get a small amount of power over a long time
<acetoline> if you multiply power by time, you get energy
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<password8> meh
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<jsoft> Damn electronics is awesome
<jsoft> Many fun factors per thing discovered and or made
<psybn> fun factors per thing
<acetoline> I wonder what the units of that are
<acetoline> I know the unit of fun is the Simmons
<acetoline> and the unit of joy is the Ross
<OSaucey_> Trying to see if I could get lucky finding a schematic for this thing .... I just get patent drawings for "adult" products oh my
<psybn> it's alright.
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<psybn> insertable electronics is a vibrant industry.
<acetoline> OSaucey_: what is it
<acetoline> IoT dildo?
<OSaucey_> My thing is a multichannel 433MHz remote
<OSaucey_> But I manged a google search that just showed vibrators xD
<acetoline> how do you get from 433 mhz remote to dildo
<heston> maybe the rf freq they run on
<heston> remote controlled
<acetoline> that would be one interesting typo
<acetoline> all I get from google are just pictures of key fobs
<heston> google images is pretty ridiculous now. It doesnt matter what you search for, women show up
<heston> and many times they're unclothed
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<OSaucey_> Maybe someone on Alibaba will just give me the schmatic and firmware if I ask nicely? :D
<heston> is it really worth the effort for one remote
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<OSaucey_> xD
<OSaucey_> I'm just curious
<OSaucey_> And spending WAY too much time on it
<heston> usually rare for companies to give out schematics
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* Streaker remembers when user manuals used to have full printed schematics
* OSaucey_ remembers when user manuals used to be included
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<Streaker> Now you have to learn Chinese and get an account on Baidu to find schematics
<JFK911> pudn and csdn :)
<Casper> does anyone here happend to be a plumber? (not knowing how to do it, but licencee)
* archivist saves and catalogues old manuals
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<heston> Streaker, is that actually a good avenue?
<archivist> two requests for 1960's pulse generator manuals this week
<Streaker> the best I've found. there may be others that are better
<jsoft> a 1960's pulse generator you say?
<jsoft> What is that, just toggles a thing high quickly for a moment?
<tawr> jsoft, err, it's not new
<tawr> plasma experiments, accelerators, nuclear physics research
<tawr> has been around for over 100 years
<heston> sounds like fun
<archivist> jsoft, full adjustable instrument many valves in them
<jsoft> tawr, Was I suppose to be born knowing that? :P
<Streaker> so it's not a device you apply to dead people?
<tawr> jsoft, you know about hiroshima?
<intranick> BOOM
<jsoft> tawr, some kind of mushroom food or the like
<tawr> and nuclear enrichment in the 1940's?
<jsoft> No I do not really know much about that stuff, no.
<intranick> 70,000 ghosts given up instantly
<intranick> something like that
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<tawr> people tend to think modern technology was just invented. there's a reason in science the phrase "Standing on the Shoulders of Giants" is deeply ingrained
* Streaker hands tawr a glass of plutonium enriched water
<tawr> meh plutonium ain't bad, i'd drink it
<archivist> must restore an old HP instrument from that era with core memory
<intranick> well the bomb used on hiroshima was u235, not plutonium
<jsoft> tawr, I get progression. How did me not knowing about the uses / description of a 1960's pulse generator turn into a lecture about nuclear science
<intranick> the other bomb was plutonium
<archivist> lots of pulse work in nuclear and also radar and early computing
<Streaker> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radithor
<jsoft> how did the pulse stuff apply to nuclear stuff?
<jsoft> Was it the firing of elctrons into atoms type of deal which they used it for?
<Streaker> to make big bang need many perfectly timed little bangs
<jsoft> :|
<jsoft> I thought back in the day you just slammed plutonium hemispheres together
<tawr> jecture lol
<Streaker> Yup.
<jsoft> tawr, :P You know what I mean though aye
<Streaker> and you neede
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<Streaker> I hate my phone
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<archivist> one thing is becoming apparent to me, people work is some technology in their younger days, and want to restore it when they retire
<archivist> is/in
<Streaker> not necessarily. I love tube technology but it predates my youth
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<archivist> seems the last person asking for a manual scan worked in the factory where it was made
<archivist> was a test engineer at Solartron
<jsoft> I wonder what things back in the day were discovered and since forgotten which could have helped todays tech
<Streaker> so when I retire I'll be looking for vax manuals
<jsoft> Like lisp machines maybe :)
<jsoft> Amigas perhaps
<archivist> Streaker, I have a pile of DEC data, most of the microfiche not yet catalogued
<klys> jsoft, anything that will help you learn to cope with today's technology
<jsoft> What do you mean by 'cope'
<jsoft> You mean understand it better?
<archivist> or fix it
<klys> for example, an older machine which is simpler and therefore easier to understand, while remaining compatible.
<jsoft> Oh right
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<archivist> some technology you see in a chip was once implemented discrete
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<password8> fuck , i think the voltage regulator just gave the ghost on my rpi
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<klys> yeah chips are supposed to connect to each other, though anymore you have to follow the chip's spec to get a working system.  it's like the move from bi-layer to multi-layer boards.  you don't see the schematic anywhere, yet it still works.  though, then you have to have specialized business to even think of making it work for you.
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<jsoft> Hmm
<password8> klys, are you theBearV2 ?
<klys> password8, thank you for the compliment.
<password8> not a complement in the least
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<klys> well it's better than blowing a transistor from a board built in the 80s, you might actually find a replacement for it.
<acetoline> I'm thinking of getting into EM simulation for some high freq stuff
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<acetoline> what packages/software do you guys use?
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<archivist> acetoline, PUFF is the cheapest
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<archivist> free
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<acetoline> do you have a link
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<acetoline> google returns a bunch of different stuff
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<archivist> acetoline, http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/ham/puff/
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<acetoline> surely you must be joking
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<klys> is it opensip
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<qrf> What type of rectifier generally has a low ripple factor? I suppose it's important for analogue audio circuitry
<archivist> acetoline, not joking, lots of money for commercial stuff
<qrf> Bridge vs. fast recovery vs. Schottky etc.
<archivist> qrf just use an ordinary bridge for the lowest ripple currents
<qrf> This guide by Vishay seems to recommend bridge rectifiers for audio stuff http://www.vishay.com/docs/49451/49451.pdf
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<qrf> Looks good to me http://datasheet.octopart.com/BU1006-E3/45-Vishay-datasheet-12527728.pdf
<qrf> Only $0.80
<qrf> Guitar amp people keep on using quad stacks of 1N4007s, even in modern designs, no clue why
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<qrf> theBear said it's because they just keep on copying designs from 40+ years ago for irrational reasons
<password8> fuck
<password8> my rpi fried itself
<jsoft> What's a jellybean fet with Rds < 1Ohm @ a gate voltage of <= 3.3? Current ~ 100mA
<jsoft> password8, lol
<jsoft> password8, bad luck :)
<password8> man i feel negativelikeshit
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<archivist> qrf, there is basically no difference between 4 1n4xxx and a bridge
<archivist> one is cheap to buy but costs more to install other is cheaper to install
<qrf> Yeah
<password8> i think i should just get back into bed
<Flea86> jsoft: Jellybean? You mean more like beeshit fet :)
<jsoft> Flea86,  Oh says the guy who cant source parts for his designs! :P
<Flea86> password8: How did you fry your pi? :)
<Flea86> jsoft: Oh I can get discrete bits, just not the cool exotic parts that I want :P
<password8> fucking thing fried itself
<Flea86> wat
<Flea86> :/
<password8> I'm so demotivated now
<password8> i think I'm going to get backinto bed
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<password8> i was busy wrapping up my pwm circuit and it went
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<Jan-> so here's the problem
<Flea86> password8: I hope my boards don't do that
<Jan-> I got up early every day this week
<Jan-> and now it's caturday
<Jan-> and I woke up at 0730 :(
<anonnumberanon> rpis just burn?
<intranick> oh hi Jan-
<acetoline> I need to make a 'precise' (i.e. within %5) 12 nH inductor on pcb
<acetoline> I'm thinking if using a meander would be ok for this
* Jan- enjoys a bowl of fruity blerghs
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<archivist> acetoline, your manufacturing tolerances may be outside that, often people make some adjustment available
* Jan- reorders archivist's archives
<Jan-> *snksnksnk*
<acetoline> archivist: I'm ordering from a fab that has pretty good tolerances
* archivist shuffles Jan-'s furniture
<Jan-> what're you doing, arc-
<Jan-> *trip*
<Jan-> *thud*
<Jan-> hey!
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<acetoline> archivist: also I do have a tuning capacitor, and 10% variation might be ok, but 20% variation isn't
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<acetoline> anyway about the issue at hand, I wonder if a meander would be ok for this or the coupling between traces on the meander would be too high
<acetoline> it's an 800 mhz circuit
<acetoline> I'm thinking of a meander with length 18 mm and area of 2x6mm
<archivist> put a guard trace to stop coupling
<acetoline> then that would make it harder to compute the inductance
<acetoline> also another thing is that this would be 7 mils above the ground plane
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<acetoline> possibly the ground plane would prevent coupling
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<acetoline> but it would also make inductance calculation harder
<archivist> this is why one used puff to check
<archivist> eses
<archivist> uses typo special this morning
<acetoline> one option is to remove the ground plane under the inductor
<acetoline> but I think that's asking for trouble
<acetoline> the return path is going to find some crazy path through the circuit
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<acetoline> I can't get puff to compile
<acetoline> I don't have the pascal compiler and it's not in the ubuntu repo
<archivist> ew
<acetoline> I mean, really? pascal?
<dclavid> ikr
<archivist> or get a book Microstrip lines and slotlines K.C. Gupta, A.R. Garg, I.J. Bahl  Artech House  1979
<Casper> hmmm I'm curious, what happend if you invert the polarity on the sata bus? i.e. solder the wire in reverse? just like usb and won't work but no damage?
<dclavid> Casper: depends on the device?
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<Casper> hds
<acetoline> yeah I'm not going to simulate this meander by hand, thanksverymuch
* Jan- coffee
* Casper looks at Jan-'s coffee
<acetoline> I doubt that that would be a very good idea
<archivist> its only lots of maths!
<Casper> nope, nope...
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<acetoline> that's what we have computers for
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<archivist> acetoline, what I would like to see happen is the maths inside puff jumping into kicad
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<acetoline> emGine looks interesting
<acetoline> kicad is still very much lacking for microwave/rf stuff
<acetoline> I love kicad but it needs more rf stuff
<archivist> looks like emGine stalled 3 years ago
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<KeithWeisshar> why is there no ground on double insulated power adapters?
* Jan- shoves Casper into the archive
<archivist> double insulated is supposed to mean it is intrinsically safe without the ground
<Jan-> under F for Friendly or G for Ghost?
<Casper> ground is a human safety against an electrical fault that can energise something you can touch with main power
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<Casper> on a double isolated, you need a double fault, each being the worst case scenario, in most case it is even impossible
<jrobeson> hmm.. here e go again..
<KeithWeisshar> my ipad charger lights a neon tester when i ground it and touch the other end to the aluminum case while charging
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<acetoline> I disagree
<jrobeson> i'm trying to switch on/off a 3v device on a 3v mcu .  but I'd still use a mosfet for that right?
<acetoline> hey emGine seems pretty cool
<acetoline> 3d visualizations
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<Casper> KeithWeisshar: RF suppression capacitor, normal, but don't worry
<KeithWeisshar> is there a way to send a picture of the neon tester lighting over dcc
<acetoline> dcc?
<KeithWeisshar> dcc send
<KeithWeisshar> through irc
<acetoline> oh
<acetoline> wow, haven't used that in a while
<acetoline> imgur.com
<KeithWeisshar> or is there a way to post it through imgur temporarily
<acetoline> imgur.com
<jrobeson> i'm currently trying to use a single supply for this.
<acetoline> KeithWeisshar: are you currently chatting from 1999?
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<jrobeson> i'm powering this with batteries, and the voltage drop is a bit high, so i must be doing it wrong.
<KeithWeisshar> what 1999
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<KeithWeisshar> i'm using web chat
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<KeithWeisshar> webchat.freenode.net
<acetoline> I should stop making jokes on irc
<acetoline> jokes don't translate well to other cultures/languages
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<Sinbad22> I want to read 2 uarts at once (one for a GNSS receiver and 1 for a 3-axis accelerometer/gyro), then do heavy matrix calculations in a kalman filter, then output over USB. What should I use as a microcontroller or something else?
<Sinbad22> Matrices are probably 50 elements x 50 elements
<acetoline> hah, that sounds pretty similar to what I'm doing at work
<acetoline> I'm using a STM32F3
<acetoline> not sure if that's the best choice for you but it works for us
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<acetoline> it has two uarts and plenty of muscle to do kalman filters and such
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<acetoline> err, it has four uarts actually
<Sinbad22> Do you think its fast enough? I want to output in real time. Why not use a cortex R?
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<acetoline> it all depends on what exactly you want to do
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<acetoline> for a kalman filter with say < 10 input variables and < 10 output variables, it should be plenty fast
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<acetoline> s/output variables/state variables
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<acetoline> processing at say 100 hz
<Sinbad22> What if the filter has 30 variables?
<acetoline> I dunno, you'll have to try
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<cheater> Sinbad22: why not a DSP
<acetoline> for our application the filter doesn't hog up the cpu at all, most of our bottleneck is I/O
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<Sinbad22> cheater: will DSP be better than microcontroller for matrix calculations?
<cheater> it depends what calculations
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<acetoline> most DSPs are just glorified microcontrollers
<cheater> do you multiply matrices?
<cheater> no acetoline that's bs
<Sinbad22> its the kalman algorithm which is invert and multiply
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<cheater> oh yea
<cheater> how many times per second do you need to invert and multiply the 50x50 matrix by another 50x50 matrix??
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<jackbrown> hello
<cheater> sorry too many ?'s
<jackbrown> Anyone know Vision Engineering Microscopes ?
<cheater> yea what about em
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<cheater> i checked out a mantis once
<cheater> it owned
<cheater> don't have one tho
<cheater> would love to
<Sinbad22> What about DSP for matrix and microcontroller for io?
<acetoline> if you want to go the DSP route just go for a microprocessor or SoC instead
<acetoline> much cheaper and probably more powerful
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<cheater> no Sinbad22 you just want a dsp
<cheater> acetoline: that's bs too..
<acetoline> no it's not
<cheater> acetoline: there are really cheap dsp chips..
<Sinbad22> Its at 40 Hertz you do the multiply.
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<jackbrown> cheater, I found a Mantis FX used unit do you know it ?  Is it possible to add other lens to reach bigger magnification ?
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<acetoline> and there are REALLY cheap microprocessors
<cheater> you got to do 50x50x50x40 MACS just for that one multiplication
<jackbrown> http://www.subito.it/attrezzature/stereomicroscopio-vision-pavia-206575931.htm?last=1
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<cheater> jackbrown: look at the mantis series on their website and check.
<cheater> i can't tell you off the top of my head.
<jackbrown> cheater, ok thanks anyway are good quality ?
<cheater> yeah they're the fucking best
<cheater> if you buy one you won't have to buy any more scopes for inspection and assembly ever
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<cheater> and it's such a fucking amazing thing to use, it's really mega comfortable
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<cheater> Sinbad22: so just for that one multiplication you got 0.5 GMACS
<acetoline> I really doubt that you could find a DSP with the same price/performance as a Cortex-A or somesuch
<jackbrown> cheater, do you think that this used unit ( if it's in good condition) worth the 180� he is asking ?
<cheater> Sinbad22: at that point you're looking at either a dsp that costs a few dollars or a general purpose cpu that's clocked at GHz speeds and is several hundred dollars
<cheater> jackbrown: no idea
<heston> anyone know if there's a public log of this chat?
<Sinbad22> Its more than 1 multiply its more like 6
<cheater> jackbrown: if it can perform the function of magnifying towards the magnification you need then yes
<cheater> yea then you got like 3 GMACS
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<acetoline> you don't need to do 50x50x50x40 operations for a 30x30 matrix multiply
<cheater> he said the matrix is 50x50
<acetoline> it's more like 30x30x20 operations
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<cheater> and you have to do 50 multiply-accumulate operations for each cell of the 50x50 matrix
<cheater> and you do that 40 times per second
<acetoline> what?
<cheater> that's 50x50x50x40
<Sinbad22> What dsp is fastest that also does 2x uart and usb output?
<samaras> heston: a public log would be easy
<cheater> you don't need the fastest
<cheater> you just need fast enough
<acetoline> I like that you think that linear algebra libraries use naive matrix multiplication
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<winsoff> Do LED COBs come in multiple colors?
<winsoff> Viper-7: what's your personal website, again?
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<heston> samaras, im looking for an existing one, i missed the last hour and a half right where it got interesting
<Sinbad22> I dont know how much fast enough is though
<samaras> heston: we had a discussion about why arduino clones are apparently just as good as arduinos, and some guy kept asking about the simd data model
<acetoline> firstly I doubt you really need a 50x50 kalman filter
<acetoline> that is a HUGE kalman filter
<cheater> Sinbad22: look at the "hardware convolution box" thread here: https://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2017-February/thread.html
<heston> samaras, were you there when you guys were discussing nuclear stuff and pulse generators
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<cheater> look at the posts from me. one of them compares all available dsp options by amount of GMACs
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<Sinbad22> Its 15 states for position_xyz velocity_xyz attitude_xyz gyroscope_bias_xyz accelerometer_bias xyz
<cheater> it's a huge comparison
<Sinbad22> then 32 GPS + 24 glonass satellite ambiguities
<acetoline> what
<cheater> you find something that's fast enough, e.g. 10 GMACs or whatever, and find out if it has the UARTs you need
<acetoline> you should not be putting all of your GNSS coordinates into a big kalman filter
<cheater> then for dev just buy the fastest chip possible, it won't be *that* expensive
<acetoline> it is very unlikely that that would work
<Sinbad22> But we can only see max x sats at once at 2 frequencies. so thats why its about 50 states