FJ vs Coco

FJ R1
* flag's in the middle of lake
* one piece shitters can't swim and jotaro's a regular person who swims at regular person speeds
* Speedfreek is fast and will fly to take your flag
* Speedfreek CTFs before Jotaro ever could

idk if the one piece thing is a meme but if it's not it's good and funny. Probs should've said literally anything about your other two characters tho

Coco R1
* robin finds flag quickly because eyes
* jotaro basically flies by leaping and can swim fast because he fights underwater
* star platinum is faster and stronger than fj's team
* speedfreek has antifeats
-like what i'm not looking at the rt boy
* robin can just grab speedfreek like she did a one piece speedster who was also fast
* one piece scaling therefore fast
-just shut the fuck up about one piece and tell me he's fast
* Speedfreek has no strength or range so Robin mogs him
* Blueno is fast, strong, and durable and can incap using his door fruit + can travel with pocket dimensions
* fj didn't say anything about kaku or DOck
-tru
* robin immediately finds flag, jotaro gets it quickly, robin incaps speedfreek, kaku and DOck lose to my team

okay so the one piece thing wasn't a meme. I think the grapplefuck thing Robin can do to Speedfreek is probably real.

FJ R2
* the flag sinks, it's a metal pole. it will take your team a long time to find it
* flag starts near Coco's team per Coco
-not sure how valid discord screencaps are after the debate has already started but ok
* Jotaro jumps so DOck just estimates his landing point and they fuck him in the face when he lands
* DOck outranges Jotaro and grapplefucks him
* Speedfreek can't be caught by Robin because he's CTFing
* Kaku no-sells Blueno's best feat because he no-sold Yujiro
* Kaku cuts off Nico's hands which will stop her from being able to make more hands
* Kaku punches at transonic speed so Robin gets punchfucked
* Kaku isn't hurt by Jotaro/SP
* Jotaro jumping reveals starting position and therefore where the flag is
-i don't think coco said jotaro jumps immediately
* Flying keeps him out of Nico's range
-???
* Nico attempting to grab Kaku means she loses her hands
* Ock grapplefucks SP

i hate the flag argument but this is an alright response

Coco R2
* the flag floats, not made of metal but out of whowouldwinium which cannot be proven to sink and therefore floats
-why is floating the default state of flags fuck i hate you both
* nico immediately finds the flag
* fj didn't actually provide evidence of dock being able to calculate jotaro's jump arc even if he's really smart
* SP is faster than DOck and as such doesn't get mogged or grapplefucked
* SP destroys DOck's arms bc puny titanium
* Ock doesn't always use all four arms at once to mogfuck, therefore ora
* Jotaro tanks hits from za warudo, which is ~SP striking
-you didn't post a scan of them being equals
* Jotaro has experience fighting tentacles and will simply punch them when they get close
* DOck loses to SP
* Nico grapplefucks Speedfreek because Speedfreek and Hakuba are similar in speed and fighting style and Nico grapplefucks Hakuba
* Flying doesn't stop Nico because Nico will just put arms on his suit to grapplefuck at a distance
* Durability doesn't matter to doorfuck man
* kaku no speed
* Blueno is as fast as Luffy who bullet times and scales to more bullet timers

i hate one piece and jojo's fuck. anyway this response has good rebuttals to DOck and Speedfreek

FJ R3
* Super durable materials don't usually float
-this is actually an alright point
* even if it isn't dense enough to sink on its own it will fill up with water and sink because poles are hollow
-ok
* coco's point relies on one of the smartest people in marvel 616 not knowing how to do geometry
-tru
* so dock finds where jotaro will land as well as knows where he came from to find coco's flag
* Polnareff is faster than Jotaro here, notice that SP is precise but not fast because he can't stop the sword
* SP is precise enough for the jail bullet but not fast enough for Silver Chariot bullet-timing
* DOck stops Spidey, "a very consistent bullet timer", from hitting him
* the arms are more durable than titanium
* even if SP bonks one arm there are still three that DOck can use to attack from angles SP can't cover
* normal dudes fuck on Jotaro, the World breaks his bones, the World is weaker than SP, a regular fan can cut Jotaro
* Jotaro uses SP to soften the hits
-why couldn't jotaro do this in this scenario
* speedfreek flies so he'll be harder to incap than hakuba, grabbing him won't do anything
* kaku punches hard and fast and can cut you
* niko oot
-we'll see

aight cool

Coco R3
* flag floats prove it doesn't
-no
* knowing math doesn't mean you know it really fast
-ok
* i can't do trig fast and my opponent hasn't shown he can do trig fast
-aight
* "might become faster than me" implies "is not faster"
-tru
* weaker part 6 sp could punch bullets out of the air
* star finger
-idk if i accept this because you only brought it up in response 3
* the world hits harder than ock, jotaro takes hits from the world
* speedfreek grabdt
* blueno can tank kaku
* kaku is slow because no feats except mach punch
* blueno doors kaku

My thoughts and judgment:

Nico is in tier. FJ's argument convinced me the flag probably sinks.

So the debate agreed on some central actions and matchups, just disagreed on what happens therein: Jotaro jumps, DOck sees him, and you don't need to be a genius to see where someone came from or where someone will generally land. I don't know why FJ did such a bad job phrasing this, but it's pretty fucking self-evident that you can just look and see where a dude jumped from and roughly where he'll end up. People can do it with baseballs, they can do it with jumping dudes. Speedfreek probably gets grabbed by Nico. I think Jotaro probably loses to Ock, because Jotaro is not at all durable compared to what Ock can do, and even if SP is fast, DOck can force that not to matter. Coco's evidence of Jotaro fighting an opponent with tentacles does not show Jotaro doing anything to defeat the tentacles themselves, but instead requires Jotaro to be within 2m of Ock to grapple him, something that I don't know that Jotaro can do, on top of not being able to sustain hits from the tentacles. Regardless, Jotaro isn't getting to the flag quickly, and Coco's team can't get to the flag at all. Kaku gets tanked and doorfucked, because even if Kaku is fast, he gets onesot by the door fruit and Blueno doesn't get oneshot by getting smacked.

This leaves Nico and Blueno vs DOck, and I don't think DOck wins even if they can't get the flag (needless to say I also don't think DOck CTFs them to win).

Coco takes the win.