08:54 < Twirrim> Devs were talking today about Java 7 which is rather imminent.  Interesting
                 blend of different VM technologies.  Oracle is taking advantage of owning
                 hotspot, jrockit etc. to produce what they hope is a best-of-breed.
08:55 < Twirrim> It also ditches the idea of loading loads of stuff by default. Going to
                 take some recoding to take advantage of but should be leaner & faster and
                 Java is already pretty quick as it is.
08:58 < greppy> Twirrim: I've never thought of java as being quick... although, I don't dev
                for it either, just a user.
09:02 < Twirrim> that's the really funny thing.  The desktop experience is absolutely awful.
09:25 < DocWilco> Java on the server is pretty quick though
09:25 < DocWilco> it's only the loading of the VM that's slow
09:33 < Twirrim> Depends on the code complexity I guess.  Some of our tomcat instances start
                 up in <1500ms.  Worst by far is the single websphere instance we have to
                 run.  Websphere loads so many modules its absurd how long it takes to get
                 around to doing the actual applet loading.