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JaysonSunshine

Legal and chat accountability

JaysonSunshine
Oct 1st, 2019
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  1.  
  2. tzip
  3. Good news for you blank-eyed Trump zombies: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/25/judge-overturns-guilty-verdicts-bijan-rafiekian-1510719
  4. pela
  5. [ Judge overturns guilty verdicts against Trump transition adviser on foreign-agent charges - POLITICO ]
  6. tzip
  7. I'm glad for Flynn though. I doubt the man is capable of hurting the U.S. in any way. This judge doesn't think he's a co-conspirator anyway. Maybe he should just move on to sentencing and get it over with.
  8. innit
  9. tzip: Flynn is guilty of treason.
  10. eelated
  11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OYw7FPB7CE
  12.  
  13. pela
  14. -[YouTube]- [( Cemetery Gates - Pantera (HQ Audio) [SD] )] [Views:30.101.330] [Likes: 138.473] [Dislikes: 7.616] [Duration: 7m 8s]
  15. maxxiii
  16. damn, you fired more people??
  17. FileasFrog has joined (~frogs@2620:18c::152)
  18. tzip
  19. innit, from what I've read of the charges, it's questionable. Flynn's business partner was just declared innocent of the charges though the jury said he was guilty. That will do Flynn's case a world of help.
  20. tzip
  21. Well, or not, depending on what the judge says.
  22. tzip
  23. Read the article. :)
  24. FileasFrog
  25. don't read the article! it's a trap!
  26. tzip
  27. Flynn already pleaded guilty. I'm not sure what the whole trial was for.
  28. post-op-penile-implant-pump has left ()
  29. innit
  30. tzip: Mueller went exceedingly easy on Flynn.
  31. innit
  32. Our political culture is broken and nobody is willing to hold the powerful to account.
  33. innit
  34. Flynn is guilty of repeated, brazen acts of treason and should be sentenced to death.
  35. FileasFrog
  36. innit: how should he be executed?
  37. innit
  38. FileasFrog: How are people typically executed in federal custody?
  39. tzip
  40. innit, yes, Mueller went easy on Flynn BUT, apparently Flynn opened up completely during subsequent questioning, even volunteering stuff. He was a Trump fan so of couse he squiggled, squirmed, lied and evaded. BUT, he apparently saw the error of his ways at some point and repented.
  41. innit
  42. Do you have any knowledge of that?
  43. tzip
  44. OR, he was scared to death of going to prison for the rest of his life? .. and his son was involved somewhere. *I* don't know!
  45. innit
  46. tzip: He ended up going back on this extremely lenient plea deal.
  47. innit
  48. He's one of the worst Americans in the country.
  49. tzip
  50. k
  51. innit
  52. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_federal_government#Method
  53. pela
  54. [ Capital punishment by the United States federal government - Wikipedia ]
  55. innit
  56. Look at that.
  57. innit
  58. A Wikipedia entry on how federal elections are performed.
  59. innit
  60. Boy, that's handy.
  61. innit
  62. The method of execution of federal prisoners for offenses under the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 is that of the state in which the conviction took place. If the state has no death penalty, the judge must choose a state with the death penalty for carrying out the execution.
  63. tzip
  64. At any rate, the Trump worshippers will like that verdict for Flynn's business partner.
  65. innit
  66. The federal government has a facility and regulations only for executions by lethal injection, but the United States Code allows U.S. Marshals to use state facilities and employees for federal executions.[23][24]
  67. innit
  68. Federal executions by lethal injection occur at United States Penitentiary, Terre Haute.[25]
  69. innit
  70. It can be carried out for treason, espionage, murder, large-scale drug trafficking, or attempted murder of a witness, juror, or court officer in certain cases.
  71. FileasFrog
  72. innit: well, i don't think those methods cover the severity of the crimes of which Flynn is guilty
  73. innit
  74. Flynn is guilty of treason.
  75. innit
  76. A federal judge brought this up in his trial.
  77. innit
  78. He was not charged with serious crimes as he made a plea deal with Mueller.
  79. innit
  80. I fundamentally support plea deals as a method of criminal prosecution by the state.
  81. innit
  82. It appears Mueller gave him a very lenient plea deal that is, to this day, inexplicable.
  83. innit
  84. Nothing in Mueller's public report justifies the leniency.
  85. innit
  86. There is an ongoing counter-intelligence investigation into Trump and his administration, and it's possible that Flynn gave substantive help in this regard.
  87. innit
  88. This CI investigation is mostly classified at this point, though, so we don't know.
  89. innit
  90. There's reason to doubt Mueller's credibility on this point, however.
  91. FileasFrog
  92. innit: my personal preference would be blood eagle
  93. innit
  94. The democratic government of the United States is essentially collapsed.
  95. innit
  96. We have POTUS doing flagrant acts of treason in the open.
  97. innit
  98. Trump started this Ukraine treason the day after Mueller's testimony to Congress, perceiving himself cleared.
  99. innit
  100. Mueller didn't indict POTUS because of some OLC memo from 1973 that's never been tested by courts.
  101. 18:08 innit
  102. Mueller's conduct and failure to robustly protect our republic has led directly to this flagrant treason by Trump.
  103. FileasFrog
  104. innit: you are not giving enough attention to the issue of the proper execution method to be employed on Flynn
  105. innit
  106. FileasFrog: I am unable to determine if you are a federal agent.
  107. innit
  108. My goal is to note the philosophical basis of our country and republican justice.
  109. innit
  110. From there, we have a set of derived laws regarding things like treason.
  111. innit
  112. Intellectually, we must modify those to take into acts of lawfare that attempt to skirt our historical restrictions on state power.
  113. innit
  114. That is the context in which Mueller made a plea deal for Flynn's treasonous behavior.
  115. FileasFrog
  116. innit: capital punishment serves an important ethical purpose in that it gives a publically verifiable certificate that justice has, in fact, been made
  117. innit
  118. My argument is that a plain-reading of the philosophy and statutes supports that Flynn is guilty of capital offense treason.
  119. innit
  120. Noting that, I advocate he be executed by the state for his treason.
  121. FileasFrog
  122. in this context the method of execution employed is of outmost symbolic importance
  123. innit
  124. We have noted the procedures by which the federal governments executes its prisoners.
  125. innit
  126. FileasFrog: For people guilty of treason as serious as Flynn, it would be advantageous for the nation if he were publicly executed, by the state, at the Washington Monument.
  127. FileasFrog
  128. and i have noted that, in my opinion, those procedures are inadequate for crimes of the magnitude of which Flynn is guilty
  129. FileasFrog
  130. i support the washington monument idea
  131. innit
  132. Public executions have been banned from federal law for many decades now.
  133. FileasFrog
  134. and i would again emphasise that i think a blood eagle would be a symbolically sound method
  135. innit
  136. Apparently, hanging is legal, actually.
  137. innit
  138. Hanging has been practiced legally in the United States of America from the nation's birth, up to 1972 when the United States Supreme Court found capital punishment to be in violation of the Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution.[1] Four years later, the Supreme Court overturned its previous ruling, and in 1976, capital punishment was again legalized in the United States.[2] Hanging has returned to the state
  139. innit
  140. s of Washington, Delaware, and New Hampshire.[3][4][5]
  141. FileasFrog
  142. hanging, however, is for thieves
  143. FileasFrog
  144. not traitors and collaborators with hostile foreign powers
  145. 18:16 FileasFrog
  146. and whereas blood eagles have not been, to my best knowledge, employed in the US before i belive now would be an appropriate time to start
  147. innit
  148. There is an argument against public executions performed by the state.
  149. innit
  150. So, the conduct of Trump and Flynn are certainly well above the capital-offense treason level in the United States. That's clear.
  151. innit
  152. And so it's highly desirable to substantially disincentivize actors in a nation from committing such treason.
  153. innit
  154. However, I do have some reservations about empowering the state too robustly in this regard.
  155. innit
  156. History has shown that the worse realities for humans are when states go bad.
  157. QuBit has joined (~SilverSur@89.187.173.130)
  158. innit
  159. There's a fine line here with the power of accountability on the one hand, and the power of oppression on the other.
  160. IL_Shaman has changed mode: +v QuBit
  161. FileasFrog
  162. innit: i don't think the execution should be performed by the state
  163. innit
  164. Who should perform the execution?
  165. FileasFrog
  166. assuming we go with the blood eagle method i think Bjork should do it, while performing an a cappela version of Innocence
  167. pela
  168. FileasFrog, Assuming brad70 isn't going to demand a citation i'm going to go for awhile.
  169. FileasFrog
  170. pela: that's alright
  171. pela
  172. FileasFrog: Again, this aint a discussion alright? I said that we should distroy iran before it becomes "unknown". That's it.
  173. FileasFrog
  174. pela: iran is a distraction
  175. innit
  176. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_eagle#Authenticity
  177. pela
  178. FileasFrog: Is a distraction.
  179. pela
  180. [ Blood eagle - Wikipedia ]
  181. innit
  182. It's not clear Blood Eagle has ever been a thing.
  183. FileasFrog
  184. innit: english wikipedia is not trustworthy, this his references to the Edda: https://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bl%C3%B3%C3%B0%C3%B6rn
  185. pela
  186. [ Blóðörn - Wikipedia, frjálsa alfræðiritið ]
  187. innit
  188. The English article appears to be substantially superior.
  189. FileasFrog
  190. that appearance is deceptive
  191. FileasFrog
  192. presumably you are judging so because it is longer
  193. FileasFrog
  194. but the icelandic language has a considerably higher informational density than english
  195. innit
  196. You are now gaslighting.
  197. innit
  198. This is a serious crimes.
  199. innit
  200. I have moved you to Orange Alert.
  201. FileasFrog
  202. yes, and serious crimes call for serious punishments
  203. innit
  204. Agreed.
  205. innit
  206. Why did you lie about Icelandic?
  207. FileasFrog
  208. i didn't: cf. https://doi.org/10.1016/0960-0779(94)90079-5
  209. pela
  210. [ Redirecting ]
  211. 18:28 innit
  212. FileasFrog: Should I ignore you immediately or give you one more opportunity?
  213. FileasFrog
  214. innit: you are overusing the ignore functionality
  215. FileasFrog
  216. innit: probably because of an inferiourity complex that you desperately attempt to hide from yourself
  217. innit
  218. FileasFrog: I have added you to ignore.
  219. innit
  220. One moment for length of time:
  221. innit
  222. Okay, I will ignore you for two weeks for your gaslighting.
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