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  5. ---------------------------------------------------------------
  6.  
  7. Channel ID: (('corpid', 98546821),)
  8. Channel Name: Corp
  9. Listener: Nero Angelos
  10. Session started: 2018.02.21 19:00:33
  11. ---------------------------------------------------------------
  12.  
  13. [ 2018.02.21 19:00:33 ] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Context is for kings, content is for Unnerved! * Please take time to read thru Corp Bulletins so we would all be on the same page of doing things!* Unnerved is going to pay 400mil per month to contribute to all fuel within HOME C4 citadels.-----------------------------------------------------
  14. [ 2018.02.21 19:21:23 ] EVE System > Channel MOTD changed to: "Context is for kings, content is for Unnerved! * Please take time to read thru Corp Bulletins so we would all be on the same page of doing things!* Unnerved is going to pay 400mil per month to contribute to all fuel within HOME C4 citadels.* All members! Make a payment of 100mil for February month into Corp Wallet. We will use corp wallet to pay to CollapseTrap-----------------------------------------------------" by TKO GASP.
  15. [ 2018.02.21 19:22:22 ] Nero Angelos > 5*100=400 is bad maths
  16. [ 2018.02.21 19:22:38 ] Clay Birlinn > :)
  17. [ 2018.02.21 19:22:39 ] TKO GASP > Nero Angelos think a lil bit ahead
  18. [ 2018.02.21 19:22:47 ] TKO GASP > we will collect corp wallet like this
  19. [ 2018.02.21 19:23:28 ] Nero Angelos > 5*80=400 is good maths
  20. [ 2018.02.21 19:23:52 ] TKO GASP > :) again its not about math .. but collecing some isk into wallet
  21. [ 2018.02.21 19:24:03 ] Nero Angelos > What will the corp wallet be used for?
  22. [ 2018.02.21 19:24:46 ] TKO GASP > dont know jet
  23. [ 2018.02.21 19:24:58 ] TKO GASP > maybe buying some ships to use for corp
  24. [ 2018.02.21 19:28:03 ] Nero Angelos > What kind of ships are you talking about, at 100m a month?
  25. [ 2018.02.21 19:30:44 ] TKO GASP > we will see Nero, i have no spesific plans, but to grow our wallet abit would be good
  26. [ 2018.02.21 19:31:19 ] TKO GASP > u have a problem with 100mil for first month?
  27. [ 2018.02.21 19:31:39 ] Nero Angelos > I do, in terms of the math and logic behind it.
  28. [ 2018.02.21 19:31:47 ] TKO GASP > lol
  29. [ 2018.02.21 19:32:14 ] TKO GASP > its deliberately bigger not because of the math
  30. [ 2018.02.21 19:32:28 ] Nero Angelos > so what are we going to do with the extra month?
  31. [ 2018.02.21 19:32:40 ] TKO GASP > ok so what do u guys wanna pay .. u want to think 1 month at a time and gather enough pennies just to pay off one month?
  32. [ 2018.02.21 19:33:00 ] Nero Angelos > So you mean the math is right. But then the logic is wrong.
  33. [ 2018.02.21 19:33:24 ] TKO GASP > dont say its wrong if u dont understand it
  34. [ 2018.02.21 19:33:40 ] Nero Angelos > So what would the corp money be fore?
  35. [ 2018.02.21 19:33:45 ] TKO GASP > the logic is that we collect some money off of our people for corp wallet
  36. [ 2018.02.21 19:34:02 ] TKO GASP > and we can decide to not colect some months cos we have enough
  37. [ 2018.02.21 19:34:19 ] Nero Angelos > enough for what though? Do we have some extra costs I don't know about?
  38. [ 2018.02.21 19:34:24 ] TKO GASP > corp money is buffer money for corp ...
  39. [ 2018.02.21 19:34:46 ] Nero Angelos > a buffer for what? In what circumstances do we need a buffer for?
  40. [ 2018.02.21 19:34:52 ] TKO GASP > the logic is that if u dont have any mony in your wallet your options to develop are limited
  41. [ 2018.02.21 19:35:11 ] TKO GASP > when u have money or the more money you have the more options to develop u have
  42. [ 2018.02.21 19:35:14 ] Nero Angelos > So you need money in your corp wallet to develop?
  43. [ 2018.02.21 19:35:27 ] TKO GASP > the options for ising the money will come when we have the money
  44. [ 2018.02.21 19:35:34 ] TKO GASP > thats the logic
  45. [ 2018.02.21 19:35:48 ] TKO GASP > you can say that you dont like that logic, but its not worng :)
  46. [ 2018.02.21 19:36:12 ] Nero Angelos > So the logic is to just let money sit in the corp wallet until we decide to do something with it
  47. [ 2018.02.21 19:37:20 ] TKO GASP > yes ... but until = tomorrow, in 4 days, in a week, in a month, in a year .. the options to do something with it are there and increasing
  48. [ 2018.02.21 19:37:37 ] Nero Angelos > So what are the options for it?
  49. [ 2018.02.21 19:38:38 ] TKO GASP > ok i dotn wanna explain shit deeper is there is no more depth to be had .. cant control the nature of EVE and its possibilities CCP does that
  50. [ 2018.02.21 19:40:03 ] Nero Angelos > So, the logic is flawed then. Is there is no depth to this plan, then its 'doing it, just because'.
  51. [ 2018.02.21 19:40:27 ] Nero Angelos > More than happy to put in money to a long term goal, but not for no reason
  52. [ 2018.02.21 19:41:00 ] TKO GASP > our logics are different
  53. [ 2018.02.21 19:41:16 ] TKO GASP > that is cool :)
  54. [ 2018.02.21 19:42:10 ] TKO GASP > let me give you a goal
  55. [ 2018.02.21 19:42:27 ] Nero Angelos > Ok
  56. [ 2018.02.21 19:42:33 ] Nero Angelos > Whats the goal of the corp wallet?
  57. [ 2018.02.21 19:42:48 ] TKO GASP > for the stability and strenght of the corp :) .. but how exaclt we achieve that is not decided jet :D
  58. [ 2018.02.21 19:43:34 ] Nero Angelos > How will a pvp corp create strength and stability through the use of a corp wallet?
  59. [ 2018.02.21 19:44:21 ] Nero Angelos > We buy our ships, we make our own money, we buy our skillbooks
  60. [ 2018.02.21 19:44:27 ] Nero Angelos > And we have citadels we are renting.
  61. [ 2018.02.21 19:45:07 ] TKO GASP > see thats 2 ways of looking at the world ... one can set goals that they can see, others wanna grow taller to see further goals
  62. [ 2018.02.21 19:45:51 ] Nero Angelos > But you're not explaing how having money in the corp wallet does that
  63. [ 2018.02.21 19:46:34 ] Nero Angelos > And in terms of 'Strength and stability', we have that already
  64. [ 2018.02.21 19:46:54 ] Nero Angelos > You've said it yourself, there is no end goal. It doesn't really make sense.
  65. [ 2018.02.21 19:47:49 ] Nero Angelos > Again in you want to start a fund for something tangible, or an actual goal, then you would probably have more support for the idea
  66. [ 2018.02.21 19:49:40 ] TKO GASP > yeah i understand what your saying :) try to understand what i'm saying :P
  67. [ 2018.02.21 19:50:13 ] Nero Angelos > I have, but it doesn't make sense. You have provided an actual goal.
  68. [ 2018.02.21 19:50:49 ] Nero Angelos > Saving money isn't going to make 'us taller to see further goals'. Thats complete strawman.
  69. [ 2018.02.21 19:50:57 ] TKO GASP > wow .. u dont understand. Not provinging an actual goal is one way to move forward
  70. [ 2018.02.21 19:51:26 ] Nero Angelos > Its not, at all.
  71. [ 2018.02.21 19:51:55 ] Nero Angelos > But he very definition of goals, we have a target to meet. Right now what you're describing is closer to wandering aimless.
  72. [ 2018.02.21 19:52:17 ] TKO GASP > thinmk about it .. moving in some direction will open new horizons every time, but standing in one place and waiting for a goal wont
  73. [ 2018.02.21 19:52:39 ] Nero Angelos > But thats what you're saying you want to do. Let me the money stand waiting until something happens.
  74. [ 2018.02.21 19:53:11 ] Nero Angelos > Moving in some direction requires a goal. Your goal is to wander in the direction.
  75. [ 2018.02.21 19:53:19 ] Nero Angelos > Right now, your plan for that money has no direction.
  76. [ 2018.02.21 19:53:26 ] TKO GASP > if you call creative problem solving wanering aimless, i can call goal oriented approach living in a box
  77. [ 2018.02.21 19:53:53 ] TKO GASP > the direction is to find direction
  78. [ 2018.02.21 19:54:08 ] Nero Angelos > creative problem solving is used to create ideas and solutions to problems.
  79. [ 2018.02.21 19:54:13 ] Nero Angelos > right now, we have no problems.
  80. [ 2018.02.21 19:54:23 ] Nero Angelos > You're trying to fix something that doesn't exist.
  81. [ 2018.02.21 19:54:44 ] Nero Angelos > And you're talking about gathering money 'with no real direction'.
  82. [ 2018.02.21 19:55:29 ] Nero Angelos > And saying goal oreintated living is like living in a box is the same as saying that if your skill queue is more than a day old you're living in a box
  83. [ 2018.02.21 19:55:37 ] Nero Angelos > You train skills for goals
  84. [ 2018.02.21 19:55:45 ] Nero Angelos > You buy ships for goals
  85. [ 2018.02.21 19:56:22 ] Nero Angelos > So putting money into a wallet with no real goal... doesn't make sense.
  86. [ 2018.02.21 19:56:29 ] TKO GASP > Nero you dont need to explain to me what setting goals is all about :) i know, but im failing to explain to you my view
  87. [ 2018.02.21 19:57:05 ] Nero Angelos > Then don't use the lack of setting goals as your goal.
  88. [ 2018.02.21 19:57:30 ] TKO GASP > im setting a goal to collect money for potential future goals :D
  89. [ 2018.02.21 19:57:43 ] TKO GASP > lol im trying to talk in your language
  90. [ 2018.02.21 19:58:04 ] Nero Angelos > Setting goals recursively doesn't make sense.
  91. [ 2018.02.21 19:58:11 ] TKO GASP > rofl
  92. [ 2018.02.21 19:58:38 ] TKO GASP > doing something for better goal choises make sense!
  93. [ 2018.02.21 19:59:01 ] Nero Angelos > But we can chose our goals now. Having money isn't going to give us more vision
  94. [ 2018.02.21 19:59:14 ] Nero Angelos > We can see everything in the game.
  95. [ 2018.02.21 20:01:21 ] TKO GASP > before chosing what to do after Burimm had left .. i started collecting isk
  96. [ 2018.02.21 20:01:50 ] TKO GASP > collected enough is to feel comfortable with every option out there
  97. [ 2018.02.21 20:01:57 ] TKO GASP > i did not know what I will do
  98. [ 2018.02.21 20:02:09 ] Nero Angelos > You, personally, right?
  99. [ 2018.02.21 20:02:15 ] Nero Angelos > No in a corp wallet?
  100. [ 2018.02.21 20:02:18 ] TKO GASP > 0.0 sec, C4, big alliance small oen ... everything was on the table
  101. [ 2018.02.21 20:03:12 ] TKO GASP > yes im giving you an example ... the best way to show something in a synonymous way
  102. [ 2018.02.21 20:04:25 ] TKO GASP > having more money gives you more possibilities and options to chose form and those options are optainable faster
  103. [ 2018.02.21 20:04:42 ] Nero Angelos > So, are you saying that this c4 is a stepping stone to something more?
  104. [ 2018.02.21 20:04:47 ] TKO GASP > sometimes a new goal or aim dawns unexpectedly better be ready for it
  105. [ 2018.02.21 20:04:55 ] TKO GASP > lol NO :D
  106. [ 2018.02.21 20:05:25 ] Nero Angelos > Because, as far as I see, these guys use T3s, Logi, ECMs and rollers.
  107. [ 2018.02.21 20:05:33 ] Nero Angelos > That doesn't look like its going to change.
  108. [ 2018.02.21 20:05:42 ] Nero Angelos > And currently we can all (almost) fly those.
  109. [ 2018.02.21 20:06:26 ] Nero Angelos > But your example shows that a corp wallet isn't needed. We all have our own wallets. Unless you personally footed the cost of this move for us?
  110. [ 2018.02.21 20:06:36 ] TKO GASP > im out of examples and i admit that i cannot seem to explain you this, its not about concrete goals dear Nero, its about goal possibilities.
  111. [ 2018.02.21 20:07:39 ] Nero Angelos > Yep. Which we can put towards when the time comes. Instead of having the money sitting, doing nothing.
  112. [ 2018.02.21 20:10:48 ] TKO GASP > wait! so far you have said that you want to pay only the amount of isk it is correct to pay CT, are you proposing that we pay more and do something else with the rest?
  113. [ 2018.02.21 20:11:12 ] Nero Angelos > ... Are you proposing that we don't do something with the extra money you want in the corp wallet?
  114. [ 2018.02.21 20:11:51 ] Nero Angelos > If we were to be paying extra into the corp wallet, there should be a concrete reason for that.
  115. [ 2018.02.21 20:12:04 ] Nero Angelos > I don't think I would be alone in that thought
  116. [ 2018.02.21 20:13:24 ] TKO GASP > im not proposing anything besides what i have posted
  117. [ 2018.02.21 20:13:43 ] Nero Angelos > Again, nothing concrete.
  118. [ 2018.02.21 20:13:48 ] TKO GASP > im open for any ideas about how to make more isk or make it work for us some other way
  119. [ 2018.02.21 20:14:09 ] Nero Angelos > Are you open to ideas about how to pay more isk and leave it just for costs?
  120. [ 2018.02.21 20:14:35 ] TKO GASP > yes .. im thinking about buffer of growth .. what direction should come from us all
  121. [ 2018.02.21 20:15:19 ] Nero Angelos > Ok, I'm not so sure your current reasoning will convince others of your idea, or lack there of.
  122. [ 2018.02.21 20:18:02 ] TKO GASP > i dont wanna convince anybody if anyhing .. just provide basis for future opportunities whatever they may be
  123. [ 2018.02.21 20:18:17 ] TKO GASP > u just want to take one step at a time and i understand that too
  124. [ 2018.02.21 20:20:25 ] Nero Angelos > You're going to have to convince people to pay that, I mean
  125. [ 2018.02.21 20:20:44 ] Nero Angelos > For seemingly, no reason
  126. [ 2018.02.21 20:20:50 ] Nero Angelos > With examples that don't relate
  127. [ 2018.02.21 20:20:58 ] Nero Angelos > And logic that has fallacies
  128. [ 2018.02.21 20:21:54 ] TKO GASP > you should be a politician ... u know that if you dont understand something you cannt call if wrong and that it has fallacies
  129. [ 2018.02.21 20:21:58 ] TKO GASP > thats just demagigic
  130. [ 2018.02.21 20:22:17 ] Nero Angelos > Oh I understand, it just doesn't make sense.
  131. [ 2018.02.21 20:22:51 ] Nero Angelos > And again, I don't think I'm going to be alone in thinking that.
  132. [ 2018.02.21 20:23:18 ] Nero Angelos > And yes, you can call something wrong when it doesn't make sense.
  133. [ 2018.02.21 20:23:54 ] Nero Angelos > We should be having a corp level discussion about this before those decisions are made
  134. [ 2018.02.21 20:24:41 ] Nero Angelos > Which by the sounds of things is going to be needed.
  135. [ 2018.02.21 20:24:50 ] TKO GASP > doesnt make sense = is a personal statement saying that they dont understand
  136. [ 2018.02.21 20:26:06 ] Nero Angelos > You should check the definition of that phrase my friend
  137. [ 2018.02.21 20:27:00 ] TKO GASP > no i dont :)
  138. [ 2018.02.21 20:27:29 ] Nero Angelos > "be intelligible, justifiable, or practicable."
  139. [ 2018.02.21 20:28:46 ] Nero Angelos > Right now, you're lacking on the intelligible and ustifiable.
  140. [ 2018.02.21 20:29:20 ] TKO GASP > within certain context
  141. [ 2018.02.21 20:29:33 ] Nero Angelos > We have context, the game provides that.
  142. [ 2018.02.21 20:29:43 ] Nero Angelos > That is the only context
  143. [ 2018.02.21 20:29:47 ] TKO GASP > if the contect dimensions are lacking being intelligible within that context is useless
  144. [ 2018.02.21 20:30:43 ] Nero Angelos > context = eve. saving money in a game that is based on long term goals = doesn't make sense.
  145. [ 2018.02.21 20:31:00 ] Nero Angelos > You see the problem there, right?
  146. [ 2018.02.21 20:31:20 ] TKO GASP > context is always different and it needs to be agreed upon and we talk in different contexts
  147. [ 2018.02.21 20:31:25 ] Nero Angelos > Either way we should all discuss this together at some point.
  148. [ 2018.02.21 20:32:05 ] TKO GASP > your approach is "set clear goals and excecute" mine is "execute in order to set new goals"
  149. [ 2018.02.21 20:32:20 ] TKO GASP > if that doesnt make sence to you there is no point in discussing this further
  150. [ 2018.02.21 20:32:22 ] Nero Angelos > Recursive goal. Try again.
  151. [ 2018.02.21 20:32:53 ] Nero Angelos > Setting goals, to wait for more goals, is stagnating.
  152. [ 2018.02.21 20:34:11 ] TKO GASP > see im not setting goals and wait for new goals .. we move towards gathering money to set new goals that will come out of gathering more money
  153. [ 2018.02.21 20:34:26 ] Nero Angelos > But we can set those goals now...?
  154. [ 2018.02.21 20:34:43 ] TKO GASP > ofcouse, if we can if we have any
  155. [ 2018.02.21 20:34:54 ] Nero Angelos > And we don't have any goals..?
  156. [ 2018.02.21 20:35:06 ] TKO GASP > i dont have any goals right now that doesnt mean i dont wanna contribute to the pile
  157. [ 2018.02.21 20:35:30 ] Nero Angelos > You are contributing to a pile. Everytime you make isk.
  158. [ 2018.02.21 20:35:33 ] TKO GASP > Nero try answering your own questions man :) its getting tiresome
  159. [ 2018.02.21 20:36:24 ] Nero Angelos > Cool. Lets talk about this with everyone involved at some point.
  160. [ 2018.02.21 20:36:50 ] TKO GASP > sure.
  161. [ 2018.02.21 20:37:15 ] Nero Angelos > To see if your "logic" makes sense to others.
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