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  1. [03/30/13 00:18:34] * machomuu (442195a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.149.166) has joined #pcromhack
  2. [03/30/13 00:18:43] <BungiePhantom> Hola
  3. [03/30/13 00:19:27] <machomuu> Hi! Sorry, I wasn't sure if there was a meeting tonight, and I was so busy roleplaying I didn't get Darthatron's message until just recently
  4. 01[03/30/13 00:19:41] <@Bela> haha hey there
  5. [03/30/13 00:20:10] <@Darthatron> no problem buddy :)
  6. [03/30/13 00:20:58] <@Perri> Aww, it's okay. Roleplaying is one of my vices as well ^^'
  7. 06[03/30/13 00:21:13] * @Bela doesn't roleplay. wait a second...
  8. 01[03/30/13 00:21:17] <@Bela> lol ;p
  9. [03/30/13 00:22:58] <@Darthatron> Perri, you here too?
  10. [03/30/13 00:23:11] <@Perri> Yeah, I'm ready! :)
  11. 03[03/30/13 00:23:34] * Darthatron sets mode: +o machomuu
  12. [03/30/13 00:23:39] <@Perri> Beat me to it. XD
  13. 03[03/30/13 00:24:16] * ChanServ sets mode: -o Bela
  14. 03[03/30/13 00:24:28] * Darthatron sets mode: +o Bela
  15. 01[03/30/13 00:25:01] <@Bela> registered my name :p
  16. [03/30/13 00:26:11] <@machomuu> So, moral decisions, how do we feel about 'em
  17. 01[03/30/13 00:26:49] <@Bela> they're tough things in life, but they're things we get through
  18. 01[03/30/13 00:27:12] <@Bela> I don't really want to do too much of it in a hack
  19. 01[03/30/13 00:27:34] <@Bela> that's more of something you'll find in a visual novel
  20. [03/30/13 00:28:03] <@Perri> I still like the concept, but I worry about the feasibility of implementing it. We can still touch on the grey nature of morality, but perhaps not in such a player-directed way
  21. 01[03/30/13 00:29:42] <@Bela> I think it's a neat idea to explore, perhaps with the villains even
  22. [03/30/13 00:29:54] <@Perri> In other words, as something that comes up organically through the story, rather than having it be a personal choice of the player. That way we avoid split paths and using up all our flags
  23. [03/30/13 00:30:47] <@Perri> Definitely, it's something we should touch upon I think :)
  24. [03/30/13 00:32:56] <@Perri> but what is the nature of our setting going to be like? Pokemon regions are always modelled off of places that actually exist, and I was wondering which would be both a. fun and provide a distinct graphical look, and b. would fit the nature of the story
  25. [03/30/13 00:34:06] <@Perri> Since I live in Las Vegas I couldn't help but wonder how my own city would look as a region - all that neon and brighness and over-the-top glitz combined with rugged desert and shady little towns just beyond the outskirts
  26. 01[03/30/13 00:34:32] <@Bela> I'll admit I thought of what kind of setting the midwest would make for a game
  27. [03/30/13 00:34:33] <@Perri> And with our mob history, it seems a prime setting for a "corruption" themed story
  28. [03/30/13 00:35:06] <@Perri> I assume American midwest...hmm. What state or city in particular? Chicago could be neat
  29. 01[03/30/13 00:35:07] <@Bela> I live near Illinois, which while I digress it's really any different from other parts of the US, Chicago does get a bad rap for its 'corrupt' politics
  30. [03/30/13 00:35:11] <@machomuu> I dunno if mobs are the best way to go about a corruption story
  31. [03/30/13 00:35:36] <@Perri> I was speaking more generally, if we used Bela's story there wouldn't be any mafia involved
  32. [03/30/13 00:35:43] <@machomuu> Ah
  33. [03/30/13 00:36:15] <@machomuu> Well, in terms of setting, I'm all for a surreal setting.
  34. 01[03/30/13 00:36:29] <@Bela> I wouldn't mind making up a place that suits our interests
  35. [03/30/13 00:36:32] <@Perri> I've only ever been to Chicago briefly, and then I never left O'Hare, so I'm not sure what the region as a whole is like ^^'
  36. [03/30/13 00:36:46] <@machomuu> We could always have a mesh of places
  37. [03/30/13 00:36:47] <@Perri> I'd be against making up a region out of whole cloth since Pokemon regions are always based on real settings
  38. 01[03/30/13 00:36:53] <@Bela> well it's a bunch of land with no real defining characteristics :p
  39. 01[03/30/13 00:37:08] <@Bela> aside from the great lakes maybe
  40. [03/30/13 00:37:14] <@machomuu> Well, this isn't particularly a traditional pokemon game
  41. [03/30/13 00:37:15] <@Perri> and it's one of my favorite parts of Pokemon, really, how it reflects our own world
  42. [03/30/13 00:37:29] <@machomuu> Hm...
  43. 01[03/30/13 00:37:31] <@Bela> my hack isn't based on a real world setting
  44. [03/30/13 00:37:43] <@Perri> So personally I don't support completely disregarding IRL geography
  45. [03/30/13 00:37:50] <@Perri> But I'm open to the idea my mind could be changed
  46. 01[03/30/13 00:38:10] <@Bela> I can go either way on it really
  47. 01[03/30/13 00:38:17] <@Bela> I'm more for taking land and building on it
  48. [03/30/13 00:38:33] <@Perri> Even SRT is based on an "real" setting, though the landscape has changed so much as result of the war that there's only very subtle clues to hint as to where that is
  49. [03/30/13 00:38:55] <@Perri> Yeah, it doesn't need to mirror the real location exactly of course XD
  50. [03/30/13 00:39:21] <@machomuu> Personally, as far as gaming goes, I've always been a fan of games like Dot Hack and Xenoblade that manage to make these surreal and incredibly unique landscapes and societies. It gives an air of predictability to the games.
  51. 01[03/30/13 00:39:25] <@Bela> like you could give me any space of land and I could make up something :p
  52. [03/30/13 00:39:32] <@Perri> Hoenn seems more tropical than its IRL counterpart after all
  53. 01[03/30/13 00:40:49] <@Bela> the US really has gotten quite a bit of treatment for pokemon games anyway
  54. 01[03/30/13 00:40:57] <@Bela> Colosseum, XD, BW/2
  55. [03/30/13 00:41:03] <@Perri> One game compared to four based on Japan?
  56. [03/30/13 00:41:11] <@Perri> It's debatable if those first two are basedon Arizona
  57. 01[03/30/13 00:41:16] <@Bela> they've said it was
  58. [03/30/13 00:41:27] <@Perri> I've heard some Japanese location raised as a theory as well...but now I need to look this up
  59. 01[03/30/13 00:41:40] <@Bela> I've read the interview where they said it was based on Arizona
  60. 01[03/30/13 00:41:42] <@Bela> :p
  61. 01[03/30/13 00:42:06] <@Bela> but I'll just say now that I'm all for making up a whole new region
  62. [03/30/13 00:42:20] <@Perri> You're right, Bulbapedia confirmed that
  63. [03/30/13 00:42:57] <@Perri> I'm fine with making up a new region obviously, but I'm just don't like the idea of it not having an IRL counterpart
  64. [03/30/13 00:43:02] <@Perri> *I
  65. 01[03/30/13 00:43:05] <@Bela> why not :p
  66. [03/30/13 00:43:31] <@machomuu> I think, if we really wanted to, we could always use real locations as inspiration for locations in game without completely relying on them.
  67. 01[03/30/13 00:43:41] <@Bela> yeah
  68. [03/30/13 00:43:44] <@Perri> That's what Pokemon does to begin with though XD
  69. 01[03/30/13 00:44:00] <@Bela> like instead of grounding yourself to a particular place
  70. [03/30/13 00:44:08] <@Perri> I mean, Unova is obviously the New York metropolitan area. But it's also Unova
  71. [03/30/13 00:44:16] <@Perri> a unique place unto itself
  72. [03/30/13 00:44:32] <@machomuu> Yeah, but I think there's a difference in "making New York Ciry" and "using New York as a model".
  73. 01[03/30/13 00:44:33] <@Bela> you can just add whatever places you want, and base it on real world places for individual areas
  74. [03/30/13 00:45:02] <@machomuu> I think Unova was the latter, and they seemed to express that when they talked about it.
  75. 01[03/30/13 00:45:26] <@Bela> I've heard that the new towns in BW2 were based on places in New Jersey
  76. [03/30/13 00:45:44] <@Perri> Which I loved, originally being from New Jersey. XD
  77. 01[03/30/13 00:45:48] <@Bela> lol
  78. 01[03/30/13 00:46:02] <@Bela> I wonder what a Pokemonized St. Louis would look like
  79. [03/30/13 00:46:06] <@Perri> Mainly inspired by North Jersey though, not where I grew up
  80. [03/30/13 00:46:26] <@Perri> I remember I set my first hack LITERALLY in New Jersey, same town names and everything
  81. 01[03/30/13 00:46:32] <@Bela> haha
  82. [03/30/13 00:46:39] <@Perri> But BW didn't exist then
  83. [03/30/13 00:48:18] <@Perri> For me wanting to have some geographical basis on a real place is mainly personal preference ^^' because it's something I've always loved about the games...but I definitely think we can compromise
  84. [03/30/13 00:49:45] <@machomuu> So if we were to represent real places, you guys would want to do America?
  85. 01[03/30/13 00:49:52] <@Bela> I think if we made not based on a particular place, it would make it more relatable to people
  86. [03/30/13 00:49:55] <@Perri> For example, we could say "Yeah, the game's modeled on Chicago and the surrounding area" but also fill in the blanks with things of our own creation. Chicago or whatever could be the blueprint, but not something to be slavishly adhered to
  87. 01[03/30/13 00:50:04] <@Bela> the thing about it machomuu
  88. [03/30/13 00:50:23] <@Perri> Kanto literally being the Kanto prefecture didn't make it any less relatable
  89. 01[03/30/13 00:50:33] <@Bela> is it seems implicit in making it based on a certain area, that you would have things which relate to that place in the real world in the game
  90. 01[03/30/13 00:50:51] <@Bela> which would mean
  91. 01[03/30/13 00:51:15] <@Bela> I could only really make a game based on the US since that's all I can I really say I know very well
  92. 01[03/30/13 00:51:25] <@Bela> which is why I don't want to do that
  93. [03/30/13 00:51:29] <@Perri> Like how XY has the Eiffel tower in the background. I'm fine with things like that, in fact I really like them ^^' But that doesn't mean we couldn't also create our own things
  94. 01[03/30/13 00:51:44] <@Bela> I think XY is going to be based on europe
  95. [03/30/13 00:51:55] <@Perri> It screams France
  96. 01[03/30/13 00:52:10] <@Bela> it will at least be based on france
  97. [03/30/13 00:52:17] <@machomuu> I think making a game based on all of Europe would be difficult -.-'
  98. 01[03/30/13 00:52:21] <@Bela> but I suspect they'll manage to incorporate all of europe in some form
  99. [03/30/13 00:52:21] <@Perri> Yeah
  100. [03/30/13 00:52:25] <@Perri> That would be a huuuuge region
  101. 01[03/30/13 00:52:37] <@Bela> perhaps france and germany
  102. 01[03/30/13 00:52:43] <@Bela> and a little bit of england
  103. 01[03/30/13 00:52:46] <@Bela> I dunno
  104. 01[03/30/13 00:52:55] <@Bela> I don't really want to make a game using that mindset though
  105. [03/30/13 00:52:58] <@Perri> I'd guess XY will probably stay limited to France or small slivers of nearby countries
  106. 06[03/30/13 00:53:16] * @Perri is starting to worry we might never agree*
  107. 01[03/30/13 00:53:20] <@Bela> lol
  108. 01[03/30/13 00:53:30] <@Bela> but machomuu raises a good point
  109. [03/30/13 00:53:36] <@Perri> It just wouldn't feel right to not use a real place
  110. 01[03/30/13 00:54:01] <@Bela> the problem is that you and I are both from essentially middle america
  111. 01[03/30/13 00:54:07] <@Bela> which as a region would probably be nothing but land
  112. 01[03/30/13 00:54:10] <@Bela> which would be pretty boring ;p
  113. [03/30/13 00:54:35] <@Perri> Rivers and lakes and mountains
  114. [03/30/13 00:54:48] <@Perri> forests...land can still be cool. XD
  115. 01[03/30/13 00:54:50] <@Bela> yes but look at all the other pokemon games
  116. [03/30/13 00:54:55] <@machomuu> I'm from the East Coast, Maryland specifically. It's largely the reason that, if we were to make a hack representing real places...I'm not sure if America would be my first choice
  117. 01[03/30/13 00:54:57] <@Bela> and you'll see what I mean
  118. [03/30/13 00:55:02] <@Perri> Yeah
  119. [03/30/13 00:55:05] <@Perri> We don't have to pick the US
  120. 01[03/30/13 00:55:15] <@Bela> I just don't see the point overall in choosing a real world place
  121. [03/30/13 00:55:18] <@Perri> I was just trying to th ink of visually interesting places which is why I mentioned Las Vegas ^^'
  122. 01[03/30/13 00:55:26] <@Bela> unless we then contradict what that will mean in terms of story, etc
  123. [03/30/13 00:56:36] <@machomuu> Personally, I love the idea of using foreign places. They are, in a sense, surreal, much the same way BW would be surreal to a Japanese audience as, save for Akiba, there aren't many places you can find that are like New York or Southern North America
  124. [03/30/13 00:57:04] <@Perri> I was recently visiting in Germany and Scotland and would be quite happy to use either of those as a base
  125. [03/30/13 00:57:11] <@Perri> Amazing places
  126. [03/30/13 00:57:22] <@machomuu> Having said that, it would be harder to recreate what we don't know too much about
  127. 01[03/30/13 00:57:37] <@Bela> right
  128. [03/30/13 00:57:52] <@Perri> I'm not against research....but it might be unfair to ask others to do that
  129. 01[03/30/13 00:57:55] <@Bela> so unless it's just to give you an outline to place cities and routes on
  130. [03/30/13 00:57:57] <@machomuu> So, before we set this in stone, we need to figure out one thing: is this going to be in-universe?
  131. [03/30/13 00:58:04] <@Darthatron> I don't mind BASING it on real locations
  132. [03/30/13 00:58:08] <@Darthatron> but using something real
  133. [03/30/13 00:58:10] <@Darthatron> is odd
  134. 01[03/30/13 00:58:17] <@Bela> I really don't want to restrict myself to what a certain place in the world *is*
  135. [03/30/13 00:58:23] <@machomuu> Yeah
  136. [03/30/13 00:58:26] <@machomuu> Same here
  137. [03/30/13 00:58:33] <@Perri> Basically, doing it the same was as a real pokemon region
  138. 01[03/30/13 00:58:51] <@Bela> Pokemon conquest doesn't use a real region, the Mystery Dungeon games don't either do they
  139. [03/30/13 00:58:53] <@machomuu> If we're making a region, I say we use the world as our influence
  140. [03/30/13 00:58:53] <@Perri> I'm not saying we have to do it like my first hack and say "The region is New Jersey. Like, literally, New Jersey." XD
  141. [03/30/13 00:59:18] <@machomuu> Pokemon Conquest...well that uses Arceus and Japan
  142. 01[03/30/13 00:59:23] <@Bela> yeah lol
  143. [03/30/13 00:59:24] <@Perri> Pokemon Conquest is a spinoff for one
  144. 01[03/30/13 00:59:40] <@Bela> the ranger games use parts of japan
  145. [03/30/13 00:59:44] <@Perri> PMD....there's so little to base it on
  146. 01[03/30/13 00:59:46] <@Bela> that the official games don't
  147. [03/30/13 01:00:00] <@Perri> And yes, Ranger does, as do the Gamecube games
  148. 01[03/30/13 01:00:02] <@Bela> I'm gonna have to say though
  149. 01[03/30/13 01:00:24] <@Bela> that ultimately I am uninterested in being beholden to what the official games do
  150. [03/30/13 01:00:34] <@machomuu> Same here
  151. [03/30/13 01:00:44] <@Perri> I mostly agree, except on this obviously ^^'
  152. 01[03/30/13 01:00:46] <@Bela> lol
  153. [03/30/13 01:00:55] <@machomuu> I think hacking has a lot of potential, and we are capable of making almost anything out of it
  154. [03/30/13 01:01:11] <@Darthatron> don't think we have limits for this hack
  155. [03/30/13 01:01:13] <@Darthatron> there are none
  156. [03/30/13 01:01:15] <@Perri> since I've always really really loved that Pokeworld is inspired so much geographically by our world
  157. [03/30/13 01:01:16] <@machomuu> I don't think we should limit ourselves to anything at all
  158. [03/30/13 01:01:18] <@machomuu> Crap
  159. [03/30/13 01:01:23] <@machomuu> I typed too slow ;_;
  160. [03/30/13 01:01:31] <@Darthatron> well I am a programmer
  161. [03/30/13 01:01:32] <@Darthatron> :P
  162. 01[03/30/13 01:01:37] <@Bela> lol
  163. [03/30/13 01:02:19] <@machomuu> Here's my problem, though
  164. [03/30/13 01:03:48] <@machomuu> The Pokemon games, as you may have noticed, are so psychologically, logically, culturally, and physically detached from ours, I don't really feel that they're basing their locations on ours is exactly appropriate. I understand it, but at the same time, the differences make the changes seem strange and almost out of place.
  165. [03/30/13 01:05:01] <@Perri> Maybe it's just based on how differently we interpret the same world
  166. 01[03/30/13 01:05:14] <@Bela> with Rose I created a new world
  167. 01[03/30/13 01:05:23] <@Bela> it's not based on any existing place in the world
  168. 01[03/30/13 01:05:33] <@Bela> I made it up!
  169. 01[03/30/13 01:05:34] <@Bela> lol
  170. 01[03/30/13 01:06:00] <@Bela> part of the fun is invention
  171. 01[03/30/13 01:06:11] <@Bela> in being able to totally make up what I want
  172. [03/30/13 01:06:32] <@machomuu> I think the important thing is that we make the location match the hack and not make the hack match the location.
  173. 01[03/30/13 01:06:41] <@Bela> we just seem to have different philosophies here
  174. [03/30/13 01:06:42] <@Perri> I guess I like alternate history too much. This is the person who wrote a fanfic based on 1940's Pokeworld - complete with WWII
  175. [03/30/13 01:07:10] <@Perri> Yeah
  176. [03/30/13 01:07:11] <@Perri> Definitely
  177. 01[03/30/13 01:07:24] <@Bela> yeahh I wouldn't go that far into making it match the real world :p
  178. [03/30/13 01:07:31] <@machomuu> I like it, it's like a sort of dynamic ;D
  179. [03/30/13 01:07:44] <@Perri> Well that was a fanfic of course XD
  180. [03/30/13 01:08:13] <@Perri> The setting should seem like it "goes" with the story
  181. [03/30/13 01:08:31] <@machomuu> I agree!
  182. 01[03/30/13 01:08:36] <@Bela> yeah
  183. [03/30/13 01:08:48] <@machomuu> As such, I think that's what we should focus on
  184. [03/30/13 01:09:09] <@Perri> Maybe we're jumping the gun focusing on setting when we haven't even decided on the story ^^' I was thinking backwards in terms of "get this done so the spriters can work"
  185. [03/30/13 01:09:18] <@machomuu> If we decide on one, we'll end up limiting the other, and that's not a bad thing
  186. 01[03/30/13 01:09:30] <@Bela> I think we can set up a region and then continue thinking about a story
  187. [03/30/13 01:09:33] <@machomuu> I just think that we should decide on the story to limit the setting choices
  188. 01[03/30/13 01:10:03] <@Bela> do you guys like the story idea I've given you? :P
  189. [03/30/13 01:10:30] <@machomuu> I do, but we haven't really given it any flesh yet.
  190. 01[03/30/13 01:10:39] <@Bela> I mean do you like it so far
  191. 01[03/30/13 01:10:54] <@Bela> or do you totally hate it
  192. 01[03/30/13 01:10:56] <@Bela> lol
  193. 01[03/30/13 01:11:10] <@Bela> cuz if you like it, then that's a start at least
  194. 01[03/30/13 01:11:36] <@Bela> I think that story could fit a number of possible locations
  195. [03/30/13 01:11:39] <@Perri> I like aspects of it but there are parts I'm unsure of though I admit that's mainly from a personal "I don't know a lot about politics or business practices I pretty much slept through polisci in college" sort of way
  196. 01[03/30/13 01:11:42] <@Bela> it really doesn't need a particular setting to work
  197. [03/30/13 01:11:44] <@Perri> I'm willing to learn though:^_^
  198. [03/30/13 01:11:46] <@Darthatron> 'straya
  199. [03/30/13 01:11:52] <@machomuu> I like it. Though, I'm a little embarrassed that I haven't had any ideas on story thus far...
  200. [03/30/13 01:11:57] <@Perri> Same
  201. 01[03/30/13 01:12:12] <@Bela> I think that's okay
  202. [03/30/13 01:12:16] <@Perri> I thought up a gimmick and that's about it
  203. [03/30/13 01:12:23] <@machomuu> Well, actually, there's a very interesting book that you guys have probably heard of
  204. 01[03/30/13 01:12:25] <@Bela> I want to make a story where there's lots of character storylines active
  205. [03/30/13 01:12:33] <@machomuu> 1984, you guys know it?
  206. 01[03/30/13 01:12:45] <@Bela> I know of it, but I haven't read it
  207. 01[03/30/13 01:12:49] <@Bela> I read a book that was like it
  208. 01[03/30/13 01:12:56] <@Bela> Aldous Huxley's Brave New World
  209. [03/30/13 01:13:02] <@machomuu> I knew it!
  210. 01[03/30/13 01:13:04] <@Bela> haha
  211. 01[03/30/13 01:13:33] <@Bela> yeah the "don't fight" thing is like soma in a way lol
  212. 01[03/30/13 01:13:48] <@Bela> it's that invitation to passivity
  213. [03/30/13 01:13:54] <@machomuu> Hm...
  214. 01[03/30/13 01:14:05] <@Bela> which btw is something on its own we could do
  215. [03/30/13 01:14:13] <@machomuu> So...society, then.
  216. [03/30/13 01:14:41] <@Perri> Despite being a librarian I've never read any of these books ^^'
  217. 01[03/30/13 01:14:46] <@Bela> all I would have to do is ask you what you think might contribute to a society becoming apathetic, or passive, or docile
  218. 01[03/30/13 01:15:08] <@Bela> and I think entertainment is a big factor
  219. 01[03/30/13 01:15:30] <@Bela> and surely a big contributor to that is all the different gadgets and gizmos we possess now
  220. 01[03/30/13 01:15:36] <@Bela> like smart phones
  221. 01[03/30/13 01:15:52] <@Bela> so,
  222. [03/30/13 01:15:59] <@machomuu> I like it, that would be a great way of reflecting contemporary society
  223. 01[03/30/13 01:16:00] <@Bela> we could have some element in the story be like that
  224. 01[03/30/13 01:16:10] <@Bela> maybe the device the player gets is like that
  225. [03/30/13 01:16:19] <@machomuu> A PokeNav...etch...
  226. 01[03/30/13 01:16:20] <@Bela> instead of the pokegear/pokenav/poketch, it's a smart phone
  227. [03/30/13 01:16:31] <@Perri> It might be a bit...bite the hand though
  228. 01[03/30/13 01:16:40] <@Bela> how so lol
  229. [03/30/13 01:16:41] <@Perri> To rail against entertainment in a video game. XD
  230. [03/30/13 01:17:01] <@machomuu> It's the best way to get the message across, though
  231. 01[03/30/13 01:17:01] <@Bela> lol
  232. [03/30/13 01:17:01] <@Perri> People play ROM hacks on their smartphones
  233. 01[03/30/13 01:17:05] <@Bela> yes
  234. [03/30/13 01:17:10] <@machomuu> Hiding a message in plain sight
  235. [03/30/13 01:17:17] <@machomuu> Er...
  236. [03/30/13 01:17:30] <@machomuu> Well, that's not the best saying for this scenario, but you get what I mean
  237. 01[03/30/13 01:17:40] <@Bela> yeah :P
  238. [03/30/13 01:17:43] <@machomuu> Uh...oh!
  239. 01[03/30/13 01:17:45] <@Bela> what would you call it?
  240. [03/30/13 01:18:09] <@machomuu> Hold on, I need to backtrack for a second
  241. 01[03/30/13 01:18:12] <@Bela> kk
  242. [03/30/13 01:18:21] <@machomuu> Is this gonna be in-universe?
  243. 01[03/30/13 01:18:34] <@Bela> as in, in the pokemon universe?
  244. [03/30/13 01:18:35] <@Perri> Which universe, though? Pokemon has so many canons
  245. [03/30/13 01:18:37] <@machomuu> In-canon universe, I mean
  246. [03/30/13 01:18:42] <@machomuu> Oh...uh
  247. 01[03/30/13 01:18:43] <@Bela> sure
  248. [03/30/13 01:18:49] <@machomuu> ...Any of them.
  249. 01[03/30/13 01:18:55] <@Bela> if you mean the universe which the main series games takes place
  250. [03/30/13 01:18:58] <@Perri> In between the dozen or so manga, anime, games....
  251. 01[03/30/13 01:18:59] <@Bela> I'd like that one :p
  252. 01[03/30/13 01:19:13] <@Bela> the one that RBY, GSC, DPP, BW took place in :p
  253. [03/30/13 01:19:22] <@machomuu> Then I propose it takes place in the far future
  254. [03/30/13 01:19:37] <@Perri> So it wouldn't be a "contemporary" hack at all
  255. [03/30/13 01:19:42] <@machomuu> Not so much that things are unrecognizably futuristic
  256. 01[03/30/13 01:19:48] <@Bela> well it wouldn't have to be that much further in the future
  257. [03/30/13 01:19:51] <@machomuu> Just so that we don't interfere with canon
  258. 01[03/30/13 01:20:08] <@Bela> hmmm well how would it do that
  259. [03/30/13 01:20:08] <@machomuu> Well...40 or 50 years?
  260. 01[03/30/13 01:20:11] <@Bela> lol
  261. 01[03/30/13 01:20:16] <@Bela> that's way too far!
  262. 01[03/30/13 01:20:24] <@Bela> how does it interfere with canon
  263. [03/30/13 01:20:24] <@machomuu> I-is it?
  264. [03/30/13 01:20:28] <@Perri> It would be kind of sad we couldn't have any actual canon characters cameo in that case though ^^' Ah well
  265. [03/30/13 01:20:36] <@machomuu> Just that it might cut in with later releases
  266. 01[03/30/13 01:20:41] <@Bela> lol well
  267. 01[03/30/13 01:20:43] <@Bela> it's a fan work
  268. 01[03/30/13 01:20:51] <@Bela> if we're undercut by XY that's just too bad :p
  269. [03/30/13 01:20:54] <@Perri> It's an AU
  270. 01[03/30/13 01:21:27] <@Bela> if it's because we have a gadget that's more advanced than the ones that have appeared thusfar, I don't think that's really much of a concern
  271. 01[03/30/13 01:21:54] <@Bela> that could be something we address within the story
  272. [03/30/13 01:21:58] <@machomuu> Though, when you think about it, a good number of years would be a great amount of time for the League to pervert into something so corrupt
  273. [03/30/13 01:22:03] <@machomuu> And for society to do so as well
  274. 01[03/30/13 01:22:15] <@Bela> unless machomuu, it was a regional issue
  275. [03/30/13 01:22:24] <BungiePhantom> Qould pollution be a possible issue?
  276. [03/30/13 01:22:29] <BungiePhantom> *would
  277. 01[03/30/13 01:22:42] <@Bela> I've thought about having pollution be something that does occur within the story
  278. [03/30/13 01:22:51] <@machomuu> I think it makes sense
  279. 01[03/30/13 01:23:06] <@Bela> I don't think you would have to advance time by so much
  280. 01[03/30/13 01:23:11] <@Bela> you just have to isolate the region in some way
  281. [03/30/13 01:23:38] <BungiePhantom> Or maybe this device has a horrible side effect via wavelength radiation or wave interference, like the myth with cellphone towers and bees
  282. [03/30/13 01:23:55] <BungiePhantom> Just throwing suggestions
  283. [03/30/13 01:24:00] <@machomuu> I didn't think 50 years would be that much :/ Well, maybe...10-20?
  284. [03/30/13 01:24:05] <@machomuu> Or 5?
  285. 06[03/30/13 01:24:06] * BungiePhantom continues to lurk
  286. 01[03/30/13 01:24:13] <@Bela> I think it's unecessary to do that
  287. 01[03/30/13 01:24:24] <@Bela> maybe 3 years
  288. [03/30/13 01:24:55] <@machomuu> Or we could leave it ambiguous
  289. 01[03/30/13 01:25:23] <@Bela> I think your concerns could be resolved in a way which keeps it around the same time any of the other games take place
  290. [03/30/13 01:25:39] <@machomuu> I don't think the time period is too much of an issue, really
  291. [03/30/13 01:25:46] <@machomuu> *time lapse
  292. 01[03/30/13 01:25:55] <@Bela> I wouldn't mind having in-universe characters showing up
  293. [03/30/13 01:25:57] <@machomuu> **time gap
  294. 01[03/30/13 01:26:01] <@Bela> but please oh God do not make it Cynthia
  295. 01[03/30/13 01:26:05] <@Bela> lol
  296. [03/30/13 01:26:10] <BungiePhantom> Too bad
  297. [03/30/13 01:26:13] <@Perri> No, she has Game Freak to push her into everything XD
  298. 01[03/30/13 01:26:18] <@Bela> she's been in every pokemon game since dp :p
  299. [03/30/13 01:26:18] <BungiePhantom> Nothing but Cynthia
  300. [03/30/13 01:26:38] <@machomuu> ...actually
  301. 01[03/30/13 01:26:39] <@Bela> I bet she'll be in XY too
  302. [03/30/13 01:26:40] <@Perri> I swear, someone who works there must fap to her or something
  303. [03/30/13 01:26:42] <@machomuu> There's something there
  304. 01[03/30/13 01:26:45] <@Bela> lol
  305. [03/30/13 01:26:54] <@machomuu> You have something on your hands
  306. [03/30/13 01:27:04] <@machomuu> ...Er...let me rephrase that
  307. 01[03/30/13 01:27:04] <@Bela> so did that game at game freak
  308. 01[03/30/13 01:27:06] <@Bela> ;P
  309. 01[03/30/13 01:27:09] <@Bela> -guy
  310. [03/30/13 01:27:09] <@machomuu> You have something there
  311. 01[03/30/13 01:27:10] <@Bela> lol
  312. [03/30/13 01:27:31] <@machomuu> All of the protagonists became champions, correct?
  313. 01[03/30/13 01:27:35] <@Bela> usually
  314. 01[03/30/13 01:27:51] <@Bela> or if you're the hero of a game that has a sequel, you disappear
  315. [03/30/13 01:28:14] <@machomuu> Now, if the Pokemon League was the corrupt one, wouldn't they basically have control of the champion in some way?
  316. 01[03/30/13 01:28:31] <@Bela> I think they would use them in some way
  317. [03/30/13 01:28:49] <@Darthatron> they could try
  318. 01[03/30/13 01:28:55] <@Bela> the champion wouldn't necessarily have to be evil
  319. [03/30/13 01:29:00] <BungiePhantom> Promotional ads!
  320. [03/30/13 01:29:03] <@machomuu> I agree
  321. 01[03/30/13 01:29:13] <@Bela> I think it's even better if the champion has good intentions, but those are used to evil ends
  322. 01[03/30/13 01:29:21] <@Bela> by others
  323. [03/30/13 01:29:24] <@machomuu> Also, each protagonist has a lot of renown and influence
  324. [03/30/13 01:29:29] <@Darthatron> what if the player got to pick?
  325. [03/30/13 01:29:37] <@machomuu> Pick what?
  326. [03/30/13 01:29:46] <@Darthatron> whether to be evil or not
  327. [03/30/13 01:29:52] <@machomuu> Ah
  328. 01[03/30/13 01:30:15] <@Bela> it's possible to do and still have the same overall story
  329. 01[03/30/13 01:30:19] <@Bela> what might change is the dialogue
  330. [03/30/13 01:30:30] <@machomuu> Would that really be worth it?
  331. 01[03/30/13 01:30:35] <@Bela> dunno
  332. [03/30/13 01:30:37] <@machomuu> For the player, I mean
  333. 01[03/30/13 01:30:58] <@Bela> it might be interesting if you're someone who replays hacks to see what would be different about a different path
  334. 01[03/30/13 01:31:06] <@Bela> .......
  335. [03/30/13 01:31:51] <@Darthatron> there only need to be one flag about good or evil
  336. [03/30/13 01:31:57] <@Darthatron> then we can use the same flags
  337. [03/30/13 01:32:00] <@machomuu> I agree
  338. [03/30/13 01:32:03] <@Darthatron> so memory wise it's fine
  339. 01[03/30/13 01:32:05] <@Bela> yeah but it's like
  340. 01[03/30/13 01:32:10] <@Bela> everything is divergent
  341. [03/30/13 01:32:14] <@machomuu> We could do a lot with a little
  342. 01[03/30/13 01:32:21] <@Bela> every event has to be written two ways
  343. 01[03/30/13 01:32:40] <@Bela> like I'm thinking
  344. 01[03/30/13 01:32:42] <@Bela> even if you were "evil"
  345. 01[03/30/13 01:32:48] <@Bela> you'd still be fighting the villains of the story
  346. 01[03/30/13 01:32:53] <@Bela> so that somehow would have to be justified
  347. [03/30/13 01:33:06] <@machomuu> Ah, very Knights of the Old Republic
  348. 01[03/30/13 01:33:33] <@Bela> it might be an interesting play actually
  349. 01[03/30/13 01:33:39] <@Bela> here's how I see this going down
  350. [03/30/13 01:33:44] <@machomuu> ...Or Elder Scrolls, that's probably more appropriate
  351. 01[03/30/13 01:33:50] <@Bela> you beat some gyms
  352. 01[03/30/13 01:34:04] <@Bela> and the members of the Board take notice
  353. [03/30/13 01:34:23] <@Perri> Sounds good to me
  354. 01[03/30/13 01:34:24] <@Bela> and then they start to appear
  355. 01[03/30/13 01:34:36] <@Bela> now what would be interesting about the good/evil thing
  356. 01[03/30/13 01:35:09] <@Bela> is depending on which you choose, their dialogue could be either pessimistic (them thinking you're trying to challenge the system) or optimistic (they think you'd make a nice addition to their corrupt fold)
  357. 01[03/30/13 01:35:37] <@Bela> and it could even overlap at some points
  358. 01[03/30/13 01:35:52] <@Bela> if only to illustrate that they don't know much about you at that point
  359. [03/30/13 01:35:55] <@machomuu> But in terms of gameplay, it all plays out the same
  360. 01[03/30/13 01:35:59] <@Bela> yeah
  361. 01[03/30/13 01:36:12] <@Bela> I mean, there could be some things that play out differently
  362. 01[03/30/13 01:36:18] <@Bela> if you think that would be good
  363. [03/30/13 01:36:36] <@machomuu> Well, I guess that could work if we're going for a single play experience, I'm fine with that.
  364. 01[03/30/13 01:37:13] <@Bela> the other thing about the good/evil thing is this could also play into having a discussion about morality
  365. 01[03/30/13 01:37:38] <@Bela> oh and one thing we haven't addressed
  366. 01[03/30/13 01:37:44] <@Bela> and it seems kinda silly to only ask it now
  367. 01[03/30/13 01:37:48] <@Bela> is the player going to be silent? :P
  368. [03/30/13 01:37:52] <@Perri> I say yes
  369. [03/30/13 01:37:58] <@Darthatron> yes
  370. [03/30/13 01:38:13] <@Perri> The player can still have a personality distinct from the person controlling them even without words
  371. 01[03/30/13 01:38:47] <@Bela> okay
  372. [03/30/13 01:38:49] <@machomuu> I guess that plays into the faux-non-linear sort of conversation options
  373. 01[03/30/13 01:39:03] <@Bela> yeah
  374. [03/30/13 01:39:05] <@machomuu> So it makes enough sense that they'd be silent
  375. [03/30/13 01:39:08] <@Perri> I've played hacks with a talking hero before and it's always come off as tacky to me - not that it couldn't be done well of course, but it's just so easy to get it wrong
  376. 01[03/30/13 01:39:20] <@Bela> what about their age
  377. 01[03/30/13 01:39:25] <@Bela> 10 seems too low
  378. [03/30/13 01:39:30] <@machomuu> Yeah, I've been thinking about that
  379. 01[03/30/13 01:39:35] <@Bela> what about like, 15
  380. [03/30/13 01:39:36] <@machomuu> I think it depends on who they are
  381. 01[03/30/13 01:39:42] <@Bela> that's still pretty young
  382. 01[03/30/13 01:39:49] <@Bela> I think it would work
  383. [03/30/13 01:39:55] <@machomuu> Why are they challenging the gyms?
  384. 01[03/30/13 01:39:57] <@Bela> I mean it's fairly irrelevant
  385. 01[03/30/13 01:40:02] <@Bela> what their age is
  386. [03/30/13 01:40:03] <@machomuu> I think that will determine the age.
  387. [03/30/13 01:40:32] <@Darthatron> I think 15 is okay
  388. [03/30/13 01:40:36] <@machomuu> They're motives and their morals should make determining their age pretty easy
  389. [03/30/13 01:40:40] <@Darthatron> the average age of people on PC is like 13
  390. [03/30/13 01:40:42] <@Perri> I may be applying too much realism, but a troublesome kid would be really quite easy for a group of corrupt people to deal with
  391. [03/30/13 01:40:45] <@Darthatron> so 15 is viable
  392. [03/30/13 01:41:34] <@Perri> The protag would need to be older, but then we hit the wall of "well, why are they doing gyms at that age"
  393. 01[03/30/13 01:41:47] <@Bela> why wouldn't a person at any age
  394. [03/30/13 01:41:53] <@machomuu> So then this raises another question: why would a 15 year old be going against a corrupt government?
  395. [03/30/13 01:42:13] <@machomuu> I'm not against it, it's just worth asking
  396. 01[03/30/13 01:42:20] <@Bela> well, it doesn't have to be their goal in the beginning
  397. 01[03/30/13 01:42:38] <@Bela> like, this could be cast in the same frame used in the other pokemon stories
  398. [03/30/13 01:42:47] <@Perri> Hmm...maybe our Trainer doesn't need to be a total newbie
  399. [03/30/13 01:42:53] <@Perri> Wes wasn't after all
  400. 01[03/30/13 01:42:54] <@Bela> only in this case, they're just much more sophisticated, connected villains
  401. [03/30/13 01:43:23] <@machomuu> Would the villains take a 15 year old seriously?
  402. 01[03/30/13 01:43:36] <@Bela> probably not at first
  403. 01[03/30/13 01:43:47] <@Bela> that's why I think this
  404. [03/30/13 01:43:55] <@Perri> Not only would that explain acceptably why they're older, but the fact they have experience behind them could make them (slightly) more believable
  405. 01[03/30/13 01:44:02] <@Bela> the beginning of the story gives you this illusion of a happy place where nothing is wrong
  406. 01[03/30/13 01:44:07] <@Bela> and that illusion shattered along the way
  407. 01[03/30/13 01:44:10] <@Bela> -is
  408. 01[03/30/13 01:44:25] <@Bela> I do agree with you PPG
  409. 01[03/30/13 01:44:32] <@Bela> if they were a bit older it might be better
  410. [03/30/13 01:44:52] <@machomuu> I'm a little scared that we might run into the "JRPG Problem"
  411. 01[03/30/13 01:44:57] <@Bela> what's that
  412. [03/30/13 01:45:12] <@Perri> Not the "Justin RPG" problem I hope!
  413. 01[03/30/13 01:45:21] <@Bela> not sure what EITHER of those are lol
  414. [03/30/13 01:46:51] <@machomuu> In JRPGs (Japanese Role Playing Games) , you usually play as a teenager or a kid or a group of teenagers or kids, and in the end, even if the villain raises a convincing argument, the adolescent/juvenile will basically say "screw that, what you're saying is just evil".
  415. [03/30/13 01:47:17] <@machomuu> They're too pure to be able to comprehend any sort of mature mentality
  416. 01[03/30/13 01:47:36] <@Bela> I would like for something better than that as a reply
  417. 01[03/30/13 01:47:44] <@Bela> but that's pretty hard to do with a character that doesn't talk ;x
  418. [03/30/13 01:47:44] <@machomuu> Actually, Black and White did this with Cheren and Bianca in regards to N's philosophy
  419. [03/30/13 01:48:36] <@Darthatron> hardly
  420. [03/30/13 01:48:41] <@machomuu> True, but the reason I raise this is because we're saying that, regardless of whether you choose to be good or evil, you still fight the antagonists
  421. [03/30/13 01:48:42] <@Darthatron> instead of "No, I won't do that"
  422. [03/30/13 01:48:52] <@Darthatron> it's "What!? You won't do that!?"
  423. 01[03/30/13 01:48:55] <@Bela> lol
  424. [03/30/13 01:49:07] <@machomuu> This is what makes it bait for the "JRPG Problem".
  425. 01[03/30/13 01:49:25] <@Bela> I don't see that as a real thing
  426. 01[03/30/13 01:49:34] <@Bela> that sounds like poor writing on the creator's part
  427. [03/30/13 01:49:52] <@machomuu> The thing is, we might not have a choice
  428. 01[03/30/13 01:50:14] <@Bela> like, they couldn't come up with a compelling counter argument or didn't want to make a very intellectual interaction
  429. [03/30/13 01:50:22] <@machomuu> Usually it's done to make previously moral villains seem "downright evil"
  430. 01[03/30/13 01:50:41] <@Bela> the thing is, this story has villains of various moral shades
  431. 01[03/30/13 01:50:58] <@Bela> what I said the other day was
  432. [03/30/13 01:51:05] <@machomuu> Exactly, but what if the player agrees with them?
  433. 01[03/30/13 01:51:15] <@Bela> it depends entirely upon the content
  434. 01[03/30/13 01:51:23] <@Bela> I think it would be hard to agree though
  435. 01[03/30/13 01:51:28] <@Bela> if it's what I'm thinking of
  436. [03/30/13 01:51:31] <@Darthatron> I hated that I couldn't join Team ROcket in Cerulen in RBY
  437. 01[03/30/13 01:52:14] <@Bela> okay, but what I was saying yesterday was
  438. 01[03/30/13 01:52:23] <@Bela> let's have a villain who is like that
  439. 01[03/30/13 01:52:33] <@Bela> who we can depose as being like that
  440. 01[03/30/13 01:52:58] <@Bela> so that we can establish the other villains as something which transcends this convention
  441. 01[03/30/13 01:53:10] <@Bela> I personally think we could have very rich characters for villains
  442. 01[03/30/13 01:53:21] <@Bela> with different motivations, interests, personalities, etc
  443. 01[03/30/13 01:53:42] <@Bela> the thought I have right now
  444. 01[03/30/13 01:54:45] <@Bela> is that the ultimate villain is somebody who you couldn't possibly agree with
  445. 01[03/30/13 01:55:08] <@Bela> unless you discarded any sense of humanity
  446. [03/30/13 01:55:31] <@Darthatron> which some people will want to do
  447. [03/30/13 01:55:32] <@Darthatron> ie me
  448. 01[03/30/13 01:55:37] <@Bela> lol
  449. [03/30/13 01:55:47] <@machomuu> lol
  450. 01[03/30/13 01:55:51] <@Bela> and what if that villain thinks they're better than you
  451. 01[03/30/13 01:55:55] <@Bela> you'd still want to beat them right :p
  452. [03/30/13 01:56:33] <@machomuu> Hm...so basically it's not someone you like.
  453. 01[03/30/13 01:56:46] <@Bela> even if you agreed with him in his philosophy, you'd presuambly contest his pokemon-using skills :p
  454. 01[03/30/13 01:57:10] <@Bela> well it's someone nobody would like
  455. 01[03/30/13 01:57:23] <@Bela> if they're an omnicidal maniac that wants to rid the world of humanity
  456. [03/30/13 01:57:32] <@machomuu> One thing I liked about BW was N
  457. 01[03/30/13 01:57:34] <@Bela> and will do it with the power of Genesecttt
  458. 01[03/30/13 01:57:43] <@Bela> yeah I liked him too
  459. 01[03/30/13 01:57:51] <@Bela> maybe we could put him in here as a cameo :p
  460. [03/30/13 01:57:51] <@Darthatron> fuck N
  461. [03/30/13 01:57:54] <@machomuu> Actually, I loved N in that game. As far as villains go in Pokemon, he is undoubtedly my favorite
  462. [03/30/13 01:58:04] <@machomuu> No, that's not it
  463. 01[03/30/13 01:58:08] <@Bela> Darthatron: anally :p
  464. 01[03/30/13 01:58:45] <@Bela> thank you I'll be here all week
  465. 01[03/30/13 01:58:46] <@Bela> ;p
  466. [03/30/13 01:58:55] <@machomuu> What I'm trying to say is that, as a villain, he worked because he had a philosophy that the contested the way that the player has gone about the game for years, and it was a convincing one
  467. [03/30/13 01:59:14] <@machomuu> One that I, personally, have been thinking about for years
  468. [03/30/13 01:59:24] <@Perri> As far as the main games go BW was definitely my favorite in terms of story
  469. 01[03/30/13 01:59:31] <@Bela> those two games did try to introduce something resembling a battle of philosophies
  470. 01[03/30/13 01:59:43] <@Bela> that's not what I'm thinking of here though
  471. 01[03/30/13 01:59:47] <@Bela> at least not with this particular character
  472. [03/30/13 01:59:51] <@machomuu> I think that it's because he was so believable as a person as well as so likeable, he worked as a villain
  473. [03/30/13 02:00:21] <@machomuu> Personally, I wish that N had been
  474. [03/30/13 02:00:27] <@machomuu> *Spoilers*
  475. [03/30/13 02:00:39] <@Perri> Of course, we have the liberty of taking things a bit further than BW could do due to not having to cater to children, but the philosophy of deconstruction of things we take for granted seems the same
  476. [03/30/13 02:00:41] <@machomuu> ...Well, I guess there's no reason to write that here
  477. [03/30/13 02:00:58] <@machomuu> Of course
  478. [03/30/13 02:01:08] <@Perri> I do think we shouldn't try to do too much, though
  479. 01[03/30/13 02:01:10] <@Bela> well we have a pretty simple one we could use already
  480. 01[03/30/13 02:01:16] <@Bela> is fighting with pokemon wrong
  481. 01[03/30/13 02:01:39] <@Bela> --that could be what this set of villains uses
  482. 01[03/30/13 02:01:50] <@Bela> and it would certainly be used insincerely by them
  483. [03/30/13 02:02:20] <@machomuu> But do they actually believe these things, or are they basically Cyrus?
  484. [03/30/13 02:02:30] <@Perri> We're a ROM hack after, not the next Pulitzer winner and trying to make too many statements on too many things - especially something that could seem hypocritical like "entertainment is turning us into unquestioning zombies" - is something we should avoid
  485. 01[03/30/13 02:02:31] <@Bela> no, that's what using it insincerely would mean
  486. 01[03/30/13 02:02:36] <@Bela> they don't actually believe that
  487. [03/30/13 02:02:57] <@Perri> We might want to narrow our focus down a little bit, which it seems we're doing now XD
  488. 01[03/30/13 02:03:00] <@Bela> it's just propaganda to keep trainers from fighting writ large, so they won't challenge institutions like the pokemon gyms or the pokemon league
  489. [03/30/13 02:03:43] <@machomuu> Actually, I wanna stay on Cyrus for a second, in terms of the big boss of this hack
  490. 01[03/30/13 02:03:47] <@Bela> ok
  491. [03/30/13 02:04:34] <@machomuu> Cyrus did have a philosophy, one that was shaped by his experiences growing up. He wanted to rid the world of...spirit, was it?
  492. [03/30/13 02:04:45] <@machomuu> To avoid war
  493. 01[03/30/13 02:04:49] <@Bela> yeah, whatever that was supposed to mean
  494. [03/30/13 02:05:31] <@machomuu> He meant it, too, he really wanted to save the world. From our point of view, however, he was evil because of it.
  495. 01[03/30/13 02:05:52] <@Bela> this villain could be like that
  496. [03/30/13 02:06:01] <@machomuu> But I think that, at least in platinum, he was an interesting and in some ways a likable antagonist
  497. 01[03/30/13 02:06:20] <@Bela> I imagine it as a character who feels ordained in some way to carry this all out
  498. [03/30/13 02:06:35] <@machomuu> Sounds God-plexy
  499. 01[03/30/13 02:06:39] <@Bela> well
  500. [03/30/13 02:06:54] <@machomuu> Though, considering his position, he is technically God.
  501. 01[03/30/13 02:07:09] <@Bela> if they're the President of the pokemon league, and also the chairman of a corporate that basically owns everything
  502. 01[03/30/13 02:07:11] <@Bela> he pretty much is yes lol
  503. [03/30/13 02:07:14] <@machomuu> From a "human power and influence" point of view
  504. 01[03/30/13 02:07:22] <@Bela> did you ever watch the anime The Big O by any chance
  505. [03/30/13 02:07:36] <@Perri> I haven't, no ^^'
  506. [03/30/13 02:07:40] <@machomuu> Whew...that was a while back, but yeah
  507. 01[03/30/13 02:07:43] <@Bela> ok
  508. 01[03/30/13 02:07:49] <@Bela> I think he could be like Alex Rosewater
  509. [03/30/13 02:09:15] <@machomuu> You know...
  510. [03/30/13 02:10:02] <@machomuu> I think having this sort of god-plexed antagonist would work incredibly well given the framework
  511. 01[03/30/13 02:10:17] <@Bela> yeah
  512. [03/30/13 02:10:23] <@Perri> Agreed
  513. [03/30/13 02:10:30] <@Perri> ...Yes, we all agree! :D
  514. 01[03/30/13 02:10:38] <@Bela> :D
  515. [03/30/13 02:10:46] <@machomuu> There really is a first time for everything :D
  516. 01[03/30/13 02:11:28] <@Bela> lol
  517. [03/30/13 02:11:38] <@machomuu> So back to the puppet organization.
  518. 01[03/30/13 02:11:57] <@Bela> well, again I'd like to use something from Big O
  519. 01[03/30/13 02:12:11] <@Bela> basically it would be the Paradigm Corporation in the way it exists
  520. 01[03/30/13 02:12:34] <@Bela> I think if the villains who serve the President are all heads of different divisions
  521. [03/30/13 02:12:53] <@Perri> That only seems logical
  522. 01[03/30/13 02:12:55] <@Bela> this could give them different stuff to work with
  523. [03/30/13 02:13:04] <@Perri> And yeah, I like that aspect too
  524. 01[03/30/13 02:13:07] <@Bela> like have a legal, financial, research, etc groups
  525. [03/30/13 02:13:23] <@machomuu> Oh, well the reason I asked was actually because...
  526. [03/30/13 02:13:25] <@Perri> as focusing on different divisions, they could showcase a variety of different perspectives on the same issue
  527. [03/30/13 02:13:57] <@machomuu> I wanted to know if you guys wanted to go with the normal "team
  528. [03/30/13 02:14:02] <@machomuu> Ah
  529. [03/30/13 02:14:16] <@Perri> These guys pretty much ARE the "team"
  530. 01[03/30/13 02:14:22] <@Bela> yeah lol
  531. [03/30/13 02:14:24] <@Perri> I'm not sure if we need more than one
  532. [03/30/13 02:14:25] <@machomuu> "team" framework, innovate on the tried and true concepts, or create something new entirely
  533. [03/30/13 02:14:35] <@Perri> Oh! Misunderstood what you said there
  534. 01[03/30/13 02:14:43] <@Bela> I'm not really sure what kind of presence the villains would have outside of these few characters
  535. 01[03/30/13 02:14:54] <@Bela> maybe they could have henchmen of some kind
  536. [03/30/13 02:14:55] <@machomuu> Since, technically speaking...yeah, theye guys are the team we often see in the games
  537. 01[03/30/13 02:15:00] <@Bela> that are like secret police
  538. [03/30/13 02:15:24] <@machomuu> Personally, I'd like to see what we could do to make these guys something original
  539. 01[03/30/13 02:15:34] <@Bela> definitely
  540. [03/30/13 02:15:40] <@Perri> Again, agreed!
  541. [03/30/13 02:15:48] <@machomuu> :D
  542. [03/30/13 02:16:09] <@Perri> They're not a typical team - for one, no stupid haircut or fashion no-no uniform - and can't be expected to act that way
  543. [03/30/13 02:16:27] <@machomuu> Agreed
  544. 01[03/30/13 02:16:35] <@Bela> I'm thinking in terms of how the game would play--you'd want to be fighting some peeps
  545. [03/30/13 02:16:45] <@machomuu> Also, I don't think that they should have "Team" in their title
  546. [03/30/13 02:16:49] <@Perri> Same
  547. 01[03/30/13 02:16:56] <@Bela> agree
  548. 01[03/30/13 02:17:12] <@Bela> what should the corporation's name be?
  549. 01[03/30/13 02:17:43] <@Bela> I've been trying to think of one
  550. [03/30/13 02:17:47] <@Perri> Definitely not something that gives off an "evil" vibe
  551. [03/30/13 02:17:53] <@Perri> After all, they're a business
  552. 01[03/30/13 02:17:54] <@Bela> I was thinking
  553. 01[03/30/13 02:17:56] <@Bela> Unity Corp
  554. 01[03/30/13 02:18:25] <@Bela> it sounds very egalitarian
  555. [03/30/13 02:18:38] <@Perri> The one issue I have with it is that Unova also derives from "unity," a concept those games made a big deal out of
  556. [03/30/13 02:18:54] <@machomuu> Hm...
  557. [03/30/13 02:19:17] <@machomuu> To Thesaurus.com!
  558. 01[03/30/13 02:19:38] <@Bela> lol
  559. [03/30/13 02:20:00] <@machomuu> Oh, wait. These guys are secret, right?
  560. [03/30/13 02:20:11] <@Perri> It also might not be "innocent" enough - it's very easy to tilt "Unity" into a negative concept. Everyone being the same and unquestioning. It pretty much says "This is our goal"
  561. [03/30/13 02:20:47] <@machomuu> Or rather, is the corporation secret?
  562. 01[03/30/13 02:21:03] <@Bela> their influence is secret
  563. 01[03/30/13 02:21:06] <@Bela> the corporation isn't
  564. 01[03/30/13 02:21:14] <@Bela> it's omnipresent
  565. [03/30/13 02:21:36] <@machomuu> In that case, would they even have a name?
  566. [03/30/13 02:21:48] <@machomuu> I mean, they hide behind the cover of the League
  567. 01[03/30/13 02:22:05] <@Bela> no, I think the corporation should have name
  568. [03/30/13 02:22:08] <@Perri> I suppose giving them a name is easier than having ??? Executive wants to battle! XD
  569. [03/30/13 02:22:16] <@machomuu> Ah, true
  570. 01[03/30/13 02:22:32] <@Bela> although I do agree that it would be easy to make the point that the state and business have merged
  571. [03/30/13 02:22:42] <@Perri> But at the same time, as BW's emphasis on the power of unity indicates, it is a term that can be spun any way you want it to be spun VERY easily
  572. [03/30/13 02:23:06] <@machomuu> Well what DO they want exactly?
  573. 01[03/30/13 02:23:12] <@Bela> well
  574. [03/30/13 02:23:16] <BungiePhantom> Control
  575. 01[03/30/13 02:23:17] <@Bela> the way I think of it is
  576. 01[03/30/13 02:23:25] <@Bela> the individual board members
  577. 01[03/30/13 02:23:29] <@Bela> are each in it for themselves
  578. 01[03/30/13 02:23:47] <@Bela> it's an opportunity to make money unfettered by oversight
  579. 01[03/30/13 02:23:55] <@Bela> it would be cool for them to like
  580. 01[03/30/13 02:24:06] <@Bela> one of them uses the power of say, Kyogre
  581. 01[03/30/13 02:24:12] <@Bela> in order to flood a region
  582. 01[03/30/13 02:24:32] <@Bela> so that they can somehow exploit the region as a business opportunity
  583. 01[03/30/13 02:24:49] <@Bela> and by "region" I only mean an area of land, not necessarily how pokemon uses the word
  584. [03/30/13 02:25:32] <@machomuu> Eew...if they had control over legends then they really would be the most powerful force in the world
  585. 01[03/30/13 02:25:37] <@Bela> lol
  586. 01[03/30/13 02:25:42] <@Bela> that was just an example
  587. [03/30/13 02:25:51] <@machomuu> They could get rid of anything they don't like in numerous ways
  588. 01[03/30/13 02:25:56] <@Bela> although there have been pokemon games where villains having control over legendaries has been done :p
  589. [03/30/13 02:25:57] <@machomuu> Seriously though, I like it
  590. 01[03/30/13 02:26:15] <@Bela> that might actually be good though
  591. 01[03/30/13 02:26:21] <@Bela> as a sign of how powerful they are
  592. [03/30/13 02:26:26] <@machomuu> Yeah, but this is the Pokemon League, these guys basically decide on everything...period
  593. 01[03/30/13 02:26:29] <@Bela> it makes them a credible threat
  594. [03/30/13 02:26:32] <@machomuu> Scary
  595. [03/30/13 02:26:48] <@machomuu> Definitely, a lot scarier than the teams
  596. 01[03/30/13 02:26:51] <@Bela> lol
  597. 01[03/30/13 02:26:58] <@Bela> except it's the corporation
  598. [03/30/13 02:27:05] <@machomuu> Very Big Brother
  599. 01[03/30/13 02:27:09] <@Bela> the League is just the institution they infiltrated
  600. 01[03/30/13 02:27:13] <@Bela> and basically put to sleep
  601. [03/30/13 02:27:29] <@Perri> It might be better to go back to a more RBY-esque story in regards to legends. Of course, our ultimate villain has Genesect, but having all these other guys gain all their force and power through a pokemon rather than through anything they've personally done cheapens them a bit
  602. 01[03/30/13 02:27:57] <@Bela> well maybe only a few of them have that kind of power
  603. 01[03/30/13 02:28:00] <@Bela> or like one or two of them
  604. 01[03/30/13 02:28:46] <@Bela> the pokemon ranger games do this all the time
  605. [03/30/13 02:29:01] <@machomuu> Hm...actually, you do raise a point
  606. 01[03/30/13 02:29:20] <@Bela> Shadows of Almia features a story about a mega corporation (Altru Inc) and its CEO uses Darkrai
  607. 01[03/30/13 02:29:38] <@Bela> the first game had its main villain use the GSC beasts
  608. [03/30/13 02:29:50] <@machomuu> I think we need to do something about the legends. I mean, this corporation is already so powerful. If they wanted the legends...it wouldn't really be a problem
  609. 01[03/30/13 02:29:53] <@Bela> and I haven't played the others but I know their villains are similar
  610. [03/30/13 02:30:22] <@machomuu> Ah, the original is about legend...
  611. [03/30/13 02:30:31] <@machomuu> You just brought back bad memories
  612. 01[03/30/13 02:30:34] <@Bela> lol
  613. [03/30/13 02:30:48] <@machomuu> That last battle in the original...*shudder*
  614. [03/30/13 02:30:51] <@Perri> I loved the first Ranger so much
  615. [03/30/13 02:31:06] <@machomuu> Zapdos, Moltres, and Articuno, all one after another
  616. [03/30/13 02:31:14] <@machomuu> Me too :D
  617. [03/30/13 02:31:16] <@Perri> though part of that love was total bias, since I could run around the entire game with my favorite pokemon following my every step. XD
  618. 01[03/30/13 02:31:53] <@Bela> Guardian Signs has the villains control Mewtwo
  619. 01[03/30/13 02:32:31] <@Bela> I haven't beaten the Shadows game yet
  620. [03/30/13 02:32:33] <@Perri> Yeah, I'm totally fine with legends being involved, I'm just a little worried about overkill - and also that if we rely too much on lengeds these all too human bad guys won't be threatening on their own
  621. 01[03/30/13 02:32:49] <@Bela> I think we can moderate them in a way
  622. [03/30/13 02:32:57] <@machomuu> If I may propose something on the radical end, I think that we should consider only giving them weaker legends, the ones with more prominent abilities
  623. 01[03/30/13 02:33:00] <@Bela> like let's have 4 of these board members + the chairman (who is also the League President)
  624. [03/30/13 02:33:03] <@Perri> The human animal is the one we should fear most after all
  625. 01[03/30/13 02:33:18] <@Bela> and among those 4, have a maximum of 2 have access to legendaries
  626. [03/30/13 02:33:33] <@Perri> That works for me
  627. 01[03/30/13 02:33:37] <@Bela> and I think you can keep it pretty well regulated
  628. [03/30/13 02:33:39] <@machomuu> Rather than powerful ones like Entei and Lugia, they have ones that can make controlling society easier, such as Jirachi and Celebi
  629. [03/30/13 02:33:54] <@machomuu> ...Just an idea, though...
  630. 01[03/30/13 02:33:56] <@Bela> lol like Kodai and Celebi
  631. 01[03/30/13 02:34:02] <@Bela> they can see the future
  632. 01[03/30/13 02:34:06] <@Bela> except if they can see the future
  633. 01[03/30/13 02:34:13] <@Bela> wouldn't they know of the threat the player would be
  634. 01[03/30/13 02:34:38] <@Bela> if they have access to ones that are destructive, I think this is better
  635. [03/30/13 02:34:41] <@Perri> Or even something like Victini. Looks totally harmless.....but its entire gimmick is attracting power, success, victory
  636. 01[03/30/13 02:34:57] <@Bela> because the whole point of them having them is to use that power to some further end
  637. 01[03/30/13 02:35:15] <@Bela> but I like the idea of it being grounded in something
  638. 06[03/30/13 02:35:15] * @Perri nods* The entire Genosect thing
  639. 01[03/30/13 02:35:23] <@Bela> also I thought about Genesect
  640. 01[03/30/13 02:35:27] <@Bela> and how much it reminds me of drones
  641. 01[03/30/13 02:35:28] <@Bela> lol
  642. [03/30/13 02:35:28] <@machomuu> Well the reason I propose this is because
  643. [03/30/13 02:35:30] <@machomuu> Generally
  644. [03/30/13 02:36:10] <@machomuu> Most organizations, such as the mob, the government, and in 1984, Big Brother exhibit their power not through brawn but through influence and control
  645. 01[03/30/13 02:36:36] <@Bela> I understand that they have subtle forms of manipulation
  646. 01[03/30/13 02:36:47] <@Bela> this is taking that further
  647. [03/30/13 02:37:02] <@machomuu> Then...what about a mix?
  648. 01[03/30/13 02:37:12] <@Bela> what about something like Darkrai
  649. 01[03/30/13 02:37:19] <@Bela> where
  650. [03/30/13 02:37:21] <@machomuu> Some of the more power oriented and some of the ability-based legends?
  651. 01[03/30/13 02:37:27] <@Bela> they use its power to instill fear in people
  652. 01[03/30/13 02:37:38] <@Bela> like
  653. 01[03/30/13 02:37:46] <@Bela> let's have a media division
  654. 01[03/30/13 02:37:58] <@Bela> and somehow they have the ability to broadcast Darkrai's power
  655. [03/30/13 02:37:58] <@machomuu> It could work, I like it
  656. 02[03/30/13 02:38:13] * BungiePhantom (~Azul@108-206-192-129.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  657. [03/30/13 02:38:18] <@Perri> As do I - Darkrai seems to have that ideal mix of both influence and power
  658. [03/30/13 02:38:21] <@machomuu> That would certainly be a great way to control everyone
  659. [03/30/13 02:38:28] <@Perri> and it keeps up from being bogged down with a lot of legends
  660. 01[03/30/13 02:38:38] <@Bela> and he's a real cool Pokemon :P
  661. [03/30/13 02:38:46] <@Perri> That too :D
  662. [03/30/13 02:39:45] <@machomuu> Zapdos, Moltres, and Articuno...or just Castform, could control the weather.
  663. 01[03/30/13 02:39:54] <@Bela> perhaps the Kyogre-wielding person is somewhat reserved in their character, which could explain why they don't overuse it
  664. 01[03/30/13 02:39:59] <@Bela> Kyogre could also control the weather ;P
  665. [03/30/13 02:40:22] <@machomuu> He can?
  666. [03/30/13 02:40:28] <@Perri> So could Politoed XD (Just joking around, of course)
  667. 01[03/30/13 02:40:29] <@Bela> it can create rain and storms
  668. 01[03/30/13 02:40:35] <@Bela> which is all you'd really need
  669. [03/30/13 02:40:40] <@machomuu> Oh, oh!
  670. [03/30/13 02:40:51] <@machomuu> What about those 3 shinto god guys!
  671. [03/30/13 02:40:59] <@Perri> The genie trio?
  672. 01[03/30/13 02:40:59] <@Bela> Dialga/Palkia/Giratina?
  673. [03/30/13 02:41:02] <@machomuu> Y'know, Tornadus...um...
  674. 01[03/30/13 02:41:05] <@Bela> oh
  675. [03/30/13 02:41:05] <@machomuu> And the other two
  676. 01[03/30/13 02:41:11] <@Bela> Tornadus, Thundurus, Landorus
  677. [03/30/13 02:41:26] <@machomuu> Yeah :D
  678. [03/30/13 02:41:41] <@Perri> Would we be able to use their forme changes? ...Oh do I even need to ask that, with Darth of course we can XD
  679. [03/30/13 02:41:44] <@machomuu> They could be used to control weather!
  680. [03/30/13 02:41:55] <@machomuu> XD
  681. 01[03/30/13 02:41:58] <@Bela> lol
  682. [03/30/13 02:42:32] <@machomuu> Though I think Groudon and its power over earth would be great for propoganda
  683. 01[03/30/13 02:42:58] <@Bela> Groudon is another neat possibility
  684. [03/30/13 02:43:03] <@Perri> I'll be right back guys
  685. 01[03/30/13 02:43:05] <@Bela> I want to do either Kyogre or Groudon
  686. 01[03/30/13 02:43:06] <@Bela> and kk
  687. [03/30/13 02:43:37] <@machomuu> Kotton Kandy?
  688. 01[03/30/13 02:43:45] <@Bela> yes :P
  689. [03/30/13 02:43:50] <@machomuu> Oh, kk
  690. 01[03/30/13 02:43:53] <@Bela> they both have a capacity for natural disasters that seems like a very useful thing for them to have
  691. [03/30/13 02:43:59] <@machomuu> I didn't notice what Perri said :P
  692. 01[03/30/13 02:44:09] <@Bela> lol
  693. 01[03/30/13 02:44:44] <@Bela> hmm
  694. 01[03/30/13 02:45:00] <@Bela> uses Kyogre/Groudon to flood/cause an earthquake that destroys thousands of homes...
  695. 01[03/30/13 02:45:08] <@Bela> so that the insurance money can be collected on them
  696. [03/30/13 02:45:10] <@machomuu> Actually, given all of this power that they have...we're going to have to have a lot of support characters
  697. 01[03/30/13 02:45:39] <@Bela> probably
  698. [03/30/13 02:45:50] <@machomuu> I mean, I can't see one 15 year old boy taking down a corporation of this prominence
  699. [03/30/13 02:46:21] <@machomuu> And with this much power
  700. 01[03/30/13 02:46:57] <@Bela> unless he's very good at using Pokemon :p
  701. [03/30/13 02:49:10] <@Perri> XD one thing I'm learning through Super Rising Thunder is that having a lot of support characters can make it difficult to develop them all
  702. [03/30/13 02:50:21] <@Perri> which is something we'd need to think about. We definitely need some because one kid isn't going to be able to stop this on his own unless he's the most amazing Trainer the world has ever seen (the very best, even. Like no one ever was); but too many and we run the risk of having a bunch of fairly flat and uninteresting people instead of a core group of characters with depth and personality
  703. 01[03/30/13 02:51:00] <@Bela> maybe you could use some of the gym leaders
  704. 01[03/30/13 02:51:25] <@Bela> who sort of question what's going on around them and decide to take action
  705. [03/30/13 02:51:30] <@machomuu> Actually, I'm glad you bring this up, because there's one thing I've seen in media that I've found to be very interesting
  706. [03/30/13 02:51:50] <@machomuu> This is in terms of side characters
  707. [03/30/13 02:51:53] <@Perri> That makes me think of the first Spcial arc, actually, where some Gym Leaders were aligned with the heroes and some were associated with Team Rocket
  708. 01[03/30/13 02:51:59] <@Bela> yes lol
  709. 01[03/30/13 02:52:09] <@Bela> only this would be a bit more ambiguous
  710. [03/30/13 02:52:13] <@Perri> Perhaps not all the Gym Leaders are as much of "allies" as they claim
  711. [03/30/13 02:52:30] <@Perri> I sort of like the idea that one of the player's "friends" may turn around to backstab them
  712. 01[03/30/13 02:52:31] <@Bela> because there isn't a clear-cut "team" to be on
  713. [03/30/13 02:52:52] <@machomuu> Given their relation to the League, I'd also suspect that they'd be watched more closely than the average civie
  714. 01[03/30/13 02:53:12] <@Bela> they may also have more access though
  715. 01[03/30/13 02:53:25] <@Bela> in whatever form that would manifest in the story
  716. [03/30/13 02:53:52] <@machomuu> But would they have access to the corporation or just the League?
  717. 01[03/30/13 02:54:13] <@Bela> well, that depends
  718. 01[03/30/13 02:54:37] <@Bela> I suspect some of the gym leaders would be in on this conspiracy too
  719. 01[03/30/13 02:54:48] <@Bela> or at the very least are forced to play ball
  720. 01[03/30/13 02:55:07] <@Bela> so they could easily serve as characters who could help or hinder the player
  721. 01[03/30/13 02:55:43] <@Bela> what's so interesting about this is the characters' personalities and beliefs almost entirely form what "side" they're on
  722. 01[03/30/13 02:56:16] <@Bela> because there is no team as it were
  723. 01[03/30/13 02:56:29] <@Bela> it's just
  724. [03/30/13 02:56:29] <@Perri> *nods* I see what you're saying
  725. 01[03/30/13 02:56:36] <@Bela> do you support or not support the establishment
  726. 01[03/30/13 02:57:33] <@Bela> and given the setup, just about anyone can be manipulated into either side
  727. 01[03/30/13 02:58:29] <@Bela> so you have a lot of potential for surprises
  728. [03/30/13 02:58:34] <@machomuu> ...I think that we should integrate the more prominent members of the corporation into the game somehow...
  729. [03/30/13 02:58:46] <@machomuu> Uh...or rather...
  730. 01[03/30/13 02:58:58] <@Bela> maybe they could be like how the Cipher admins existed
  731. 01[03/30/13 02:59:10] <@Bela> where they have their own domains
  732. 01[03/30/13 02:59:58] <@Bela> or maybe
  733. 01[03/30/13 03:00:05] <@Bela> maybe we could showcase them more through cutscenes
  734. 01[03/30/13 03:01:07] <@Bela> you have the option of only showing things through the main player's perspective
  735. 01[03/30/13 03:01:21] <@Bela> where only stuff that happens in their immediate surroundings is what is told in the story
  736. 01[03/30/13 03:01:37] <@Bela> but I think you can do it so you have scenes where the player is not present
  737. [03/30/13 03:02:28] <@Perri> Of course, the player (as in the character, not the person playing) wouldn't be privy to such information, but it could certainly help to build intrigue if used right
  738. [03/30/13 03:02:43] <@machomuu> Ah, well what I meant was...maybe we could make them characters in the game that befriend or oppose the character during the game, but they aren't revealed to be members of the corporation until later on.
  739. 01[03/30/13 03:02:44] <@Bela> yeah that's what I mean
  740. 01[03/30/13 03:02:55] <@Bela> I think that would remove much of the need to have the make these characters appear out in the open
  741. 01[03/30/13 03:03:03] <@Bela> -have to make
  742. [03/30/13 03:03:08] <@Perri> of course, we don't want to use cutscenes to spoil too much, since ultimately we want the player to come to their own conclusions towards whether they agree with the establishment or reject it
  743. 01[03/30/13 03:04:23] <@Bela> @machomuu - I like that idea
  744. [03/30/13 03:04:32] <@Perri> Agreed!
  745. 01[03/30/13 03:04:37] <@Bela> I think you could actually do both
  746. [03/30/13 03:04:39] <@Perri> Count that as another three way agreement :)
  747. [03/30/13 03:04:48] <@machomuu> :D
  748. 01[03/30/13 03:04:53] <@Bela> I know if we had cutscenes with board meetings
  749. [03/30/13 03:04:56] <@machomuu> I also agree that we could do both
  750. 01[03/30/13 03:04:59] <@Bela> I would want to keep the chairman concealed
  751. 01[03/30/13 03:05:02] <@Bela> at the very least
  752. [03/30/13 03:05:02] <@machomuu> Ooh
  753. 01[03/30/13 03:05:14] <@Bela> so that way the big reveal that he's also the league president is kept till the end
  754. [03/30/13 03:05:43] <@machomuu> Actually...not that I'm disagreeing...
  755. [03/30/13 03:05:52] <@machomuu> But might that be a bit obvious?
  756. 01[03/30/13 03:06:06] <@Bela> I'm not sure
  757. 01[03/30/13 03:06:13] <@Bela> it might depend on how it's delivered
  758. 01[03/30/13 03:06:16] <@Bela> like
  759. 01[03/30/13 03:06:26] <@Bela> if the story talks about the League President by name
  760. 01[03/30/13 03:06:36] <@Bela> and then only has the villains talk about their "Boss"
  761. 01[03/30/13 03:06:46] <@Bela> but you keep these two things mutually exclusive until the end
  762. 01[03/30/13 03:06:48] <@Bela> I think it might work
  763. [03/30/13 03:06:57] <@machomuu> Oh, no, that's not what I mean
  764. 01[03/30/13 03:07:49] <@Bela> then what do you mean :p
  765. [03/30/13 03:08:02] <@machomuu> I'm saying that...well, if the player were trying to figure out who the antagonist was, they'd probably go immediately to the League president if we actually introduce him.
  766. 01[03/30/13 03:08:32] <@Bela> I think if we start with introducing him
  767. [03/30/13 03:08:37] <@machomuu> In other words, because the League is so powerful and we know that they have a president, their minds might go right to him.
  768. [03/30/13 03:08:40] <@machomuu> Or her
  769. [03/30/13 03:08:41] <@Perri> Something generic like "boss" also hides the gender of the character. IF they used Mr. or Mrs. or an obviously gendered first name, it could be easily to eliminate part of the cast and eliminate some of the mystery
  770. [03/30/13 03:08:55] <@Perri> *easily used
  771. 01[03/30/13 03:09:03] <@Bela> well if you want red herrings
  772. 01[03/30/13 03:09:06] <@Bela> those are easy to make
  773. [03/30/13 03:09:14] <@machomuu> Yeah, that's what I mean
  774. 01[03/30/13 03:09:14] <@Bela> just make the Champion a possible character
  775. 01[03/30/13 03:09:31] <@Bela> that gives them two possibilities right up until the end
  776. [03/30/13 03:09:38] <@Perri> Machomuu, we had the same idea there. The president doesn't necessarily have to be male XD
  777. [03/30/13 03:09:39] <@machomuu> And the puppet organization leader
  778. 01[03/30/13 03:09:49] <@Bela> it turns out it's Cynthia
  779. 01[03/30/13 03:09:51] <@Bela> ;P
  780. [03/30/13 03:09:59] <@Perri> Oh god that cracked me up XD
  781. [03/30/13 03:10:05] <@machomuu> People would rage :p
  782. 01[03/30/13 03:10:10] <@Bela> indeed they would :p
  783. 01[03/30/13 03:10:32] <@Bela> I think it's easier to hate the character if it's a crotchety old man
  784. [03/30/13 03:11:07] <@machomuu> So...do we not pick the old man because he's so easy to hate?
  785. [03/30/13 03:11:24] <@Perri> (Cynthia should be the one waiting on Mt. Silver in Crystal Meth, but I digress. XD )
  786. [03/30/13 03:11:25] <@Perri> A crotchety old man may seem a bit obvious, but after all evil comes in all flavors
  787. 01[03/30/13 03:11:45] <@Bela> I'm thinking a character like Damon Gant or Alex Rosewater would make a good League president
  788. [03/30/13 03:12:11] <@machomuu> Generally, it is the old man type or the business man type that controls these types of organizations
  789. 01[03/30/13 03:12:12] <@Bela> they wouldn't necessarily have to look old and decrepit
  790. 01[03/30/13 03:12:40] <@Bela> but I do think that having it be "that" kind of person is right, even if they were presumably a "good" character
  791. [03/30/13 03:12:44] <@machomuu> Well, we could avoid those tropes to add to the unpredictability
  792. [03/30/13 03:12:59] <@machomuu> Hm...makes sense
  793. 01[03/30/13 03:13:01] <@Bela> but people could just say you're avoding the trope precisely because that's what it is :P
  794. 01[03/30/13 03:13:08] <@Bela> -avoiding
  795. [03/30/13 03:13:08] <@Perri> Tropes aren't always bad
  796. 01[03/30/13 03:13:18] <@Bela> this is starting to read like a tvtropes page
  797. 01[03/30/13 03:13:19] <@Bela> lol
  798. [03/30/13 03:13:20] <@machomuu> Oh, so true
  799. [03/30/13 03:13:23] <@Perri> XD
  800. [03/30/13 03:13:50] <@Perri> While an old man may be the "classic" image, a lot of CEOs are older men
  801. [03/30/13 03:13:53] <@machomuu> I'm just saying we can always consider alternatives
  802. [03/30/13 03:13:57] <@Perri> It's truth in television...err...ROM hack
  803. [03/30/13 03:14:05] <@Perri> But that isn't to say we can't subvert it
  804. [03/30/13 03:14:16] <@Perri> but we shouldn't go so far off the deep end that it looks like we're trying to defy a trope for the sake of defying it
  805. [03/30/13 03:14:34] <@machomuu> Speaking of that, what is so wrong with having a woman?
  806. [03/30/13 03:14:41] <@Perri> Nothing at all
  807. 01[03/30/13 03:14:53] <@Bela> well, it's not that it couldn't be a woman
  808. [03/30/13 03:14:56] <@machomuu> I've never seen it before, and it's not TOO overboard
  809. [03/30/13 03:15:10] <@Perri> It could even be an older woman
  810. [03/30/13 03:15:19] <@Perri> Staying close to the trope, but tweaking it just enough
  811. [03/30/13 03:15:20] <@machomuu> I definitely wouldn't call it a complete subversion
  812. [03/30/13 03:15:32] <@machomuu> Oh, that's the other thing
  813. [03/30/13 03:15:42] <@machomuu> I think they should be middle aged, rather than old
  814. [03/30/13 03:15:51] <@machomuu> Say...Mad Men aged?
  815. [03/30/13 03:16:15] <@machomuu> They are the ones that usually gauge what is popular in society and then drive commercialism for it
  816. [03/30/13 03:16:22] <@Perri> Good points
  817. 01[03/30/13 03:16:45] <@Bela> that would be good if it were one of the members
  818. 01[03/30/13 03:16:54] <@Bela> I still think the chair person/president should be a man
  819. [03/30/13 03:17:05] <@Perri> Too old, and you have the stereotype of being "out of touch". It's what I was trying to get at by saying CEOs tend to be "older" but you're wording it much better than I did ^^'
  820. 01[03/30/13 03:17:16] <@Bela> not because I'm saying a woman wouldn't be possible, I just think it works better as a man :p
  821. 01[03/30/13 03:17:33] <@Bela> it seems like
  822. 01[03/30/13 03:18:38] <@Bela> the characteristics of an old man to have a power structure and all this other antiquated stuff
  823. [03/30/13 03:18:43] <@machomuu> Men are generally the types to be god-plexed
  824. 01[03/30/13 03:20:01] <@Bela> maybe among the members there could be women
  825. 01[03/30/13 03:20:11] <@Bela> and certainly among the gym leaders and the champion
  826. [03/30/13 03:20:25] <@Perri> Definitely :D
  827. [03/30/13 03:20:33] <@machomuu> Yupyup
  828. [03/30/13 03:20:48] <@Perri> And the player will be able to be of both genders, right? I ask because they've been called "he" all evening XD
  829. 01[03/30/13 03:21:01] <@Bela> No they can only be a male, it's a choice between two males :P
  830. [03/30/13 03:21:19] <@machomuu> XD
  831. [03/30/13 03:22:19] <@Perri> And I'm guilty of that, my own hack is a "player character is always male" type of game ^^'
  832. [03/30/13 03:22:30] <@machomuu> So, having said all of this
  833. [03/30/13 03:22:43] <@machomuu> Region?
  834. 01[03/30/13 03:22:50] <@Bela> what's the region gonna look like
  835. [03/30/13 03:22:53] <@Perri> Circled back around to the start XD
  836. [03/30/13 03:23:18] <@machomuu> Personally, in terms of representation, I say North America, Central Japan, and Western Europe
  837. 01[03/30/13 03:23:23] <@Bela> I'm just interested in the region having some amount of coastline and water
  838. 01[03/30/13 03:23:53] <@Bela> maybe we can create some base land and water combination
  839. [03/30/13 03:23:56] <@Perri> Hmm....given this is the future, and a region with heavy corporate influence, it's very likely it could be urbanized and built up, even more than Unova
  840. [03/30/13 03:23:58] <@machomuu> Hmm...North America and Western Europe, then?
  841. 01[03/30/13 03:24:09] <@Bela> and then we can each take turns making up town/routes
  842. 01[03/30/13 03:24:16] <@Bela> or compare different setups
  843. [03/30/13 03:24:24] <@Perri> Not mixing them both together,I'm still against that ^^' It think we should pick just one of those places
  844. [03/30/13 03:24:31] <@machomuu> Oh, what about cars?
  845. [03/30/13 03:24:38] <@Perri> I support cars
  846. [03/30/13 03:24:47] <@machomuu> Wait, you only want one place?
  847. 01[03/30/13 03:24:52] <@Bela> I think there should still be some amount of rural areas
  848. [03/30/13 03:24:52] <@machomuu> Hrmmm...
  849. [03/30/13 03:25:02] <@Perri> We do see quite a few of them in BW after all
  850. [03/30/13 03:26:05] <@Perri> Yeah, I still very much prefer the idea of using a specific real life area as a base and then expanding and fictionalizing it, the way the games do...but we already had this discussion ^^'
  851. 01[03/30/13 03:26:24] <@Bela> how about this Perri
  852. 01[03/30/13 03:26:32] <@Bela> let's pick some expanse of land and water
  853. 01[03/30/13 03:26:43] <@Bela> and then with that we have a template
  854. [03/30/13 03:26:46] <@Perri> I'm fine with that
  855. 01[03/30/13 03:27:01] <@Bela> and with that template, we try to come up with a place for the starting town
  856. 01[03/30/13 03:27:07] <@Bela> and all the other towns
  857. 01[03/30/13 03:27:09] <@Bela> and routes
  858. [03/30/13 03:27:12] <@Perri> Seems a good compromise. We get land, we get water, we get a real-life landmass that can serve as a template
  859. [03/30/13 03:27:14] <@Perri> :)
  860. [03/30/13 03:27:16] <@Perri> I'm down with that!
  861. 01[03/30/13 03:27:37] <@Bela> okay so what should that be :p
  862. [03/30/13 03:28:00] <@machomuu> Well, that would be either Japan, Europe, Aussie, North America, South America, and Africa
  863. [03/30/13 03:28:12] <@machomuu> And Asia.
  864. [03/30/13 03:28:38] <@Perri> XY will be doing Europe, and American and Japan have been pretty well explored (though I suppose there's Canada or Latin America as far as North America are concerned)
  865. 01[03/30/13 03:29:11] <@Bela> Canada - too cold; Latin America - too hot
  866. 01[03/30/13 03:29:12] <@Bela> ;p
  867. [03/30/13 03:29:27] <@machomuu> Well we can still do Europe, they can't possibly do all of it
  868. 01[03/30/13 03:29:37] <@Bela> and even if they do, it wouldn't matter really
  869. [03/30/13 03:29:48] <@Perri> Though since XY seems to be focusing on France....Hmm. Looking at the map there's a lot of interesting penisulas
  870. [03/30/13 03:29:55] <@Perri> (Of Europe, not of France. XD)
  871. 01[03/30/13 03:30:04] <@Bela> we could do England/Ireland
  872. 01[03/30/13 03:30:27] <@Bela> the thing is
  873. 01[03/30/13 03:30:51] <@Bela> for this kind of story
  874. 01[03/30/13 03:31:02] <@Bela> it's probably going to be out of place no matter what you choose
  875. [03/30/13 03:31:13] <@Perri> Yeah, we don't need to worry about that too much
  876. [03/30/13 03:31:25] <@machomuu> I dunno, 1984 took place in Europe, and it worked rather well
  877. [03/30/13 03:32:01] <@machomuu> Personally, for this type of story, I would think that North America, Western Europe, and Central Japan...or any of China, are the ideal locations.
  878. 01[03/30/13 03:32:38] <@Bela> I guess what gets me is
  879. 01[03/30/13 03:32:46] <@Bela> I know Europe isn't nearly as corrupt as the US is lol
  880. [03/30/13 03:32:59] <@machomuu> You never know
  881. [03/30/13 03:33:25] <@Perri> THe UK does have an obsession with cameras
  882. 01[03/30/13 03:33:31] <@Bela> I know Canada is like the least corrupt place ever
  883. [03/30/13 03:33:32] <@machomuu> Big Brother is in everywhere
  884. [03/30/13 03:33:38] <@machomuu> Ge's always watching
  885. [03/30/13 03:33:40] <@Perri> Big Brother watching and all that. XD
  886. 01[03/30/13 03:33:42] <@Bela> lol
  887. [03/30/13 03:33:44] <@machomuu> *He's
  888. 01[03/30/13 03:33:50] <@Bela> I forget which country it is
  889. 01[03/30/13 03:33:58] <@Bela> I don't think it's Norway
  890. 01[03/30/13 03:34:15] <@Bela> But one country near it like
  891. 01[03/30/13 03:34:24] <@Bela> actually prosecuted and put in prison its bankers
  892. 01[03/30/13 03:34:37] <@Bela> so I know whichever country that is isn't corrupt lol
  893. 01[03/30/13 03:35:11] <@Bela> but I would be fine choosing some area of land in the UK/western Europe for a region
  894. [03/30/13 03:35:18] <@Perri> In terms of the UK, the eastern side of Scotland could be a cool region. Zooming into the map there's a bunch of islands and the shape is interesting
  895. [03/30/13 03:35:38] <@Perri> Looking at the rest of the map it seems to be the most visually interesting area of the country
  896. 01[03/30/13 03:35:56] <@Bela> okay
  897. 01[03/30/13 03:36:02] <@Bela> and by visually interesting
  898. [03/30/13 03:36:12] <@Perri> Just through sheer geography
  899. 01[03/30/13 03:36:22] <@Bela> because I'm thinking we could still tailor-fit the geography as far as mountains, etc go
  900. [03/30/13 03:36:28] <@Perri> Yeah, totally
  901. [03/30/13 03:36:35] <@Perri> Just the shape of the landmass is cool
  902. 01[03/30/13 03:36:37] <@Bela> then okay
  903. 01[03/30/13 03:36:40] <@Bela> let's do that
  904. 01[03/30/13 03:36:45] <@Bela> show me what it looks like if you can :p
  905. 01[03/30/13 03:36:53] <@Bela> I'll go look it up but
  906. 01[03/30/13 03:37:11] <@Bela> wanna make sure we're looking at the same subsection
  907. [03/30/13 03:37:35] <@Perri> I took a screen cap
  908. [03/30/13 03:37:50] <@Perri> But look for the "Firth of Clyde"
  909. 01[03/30/13 03:38:21] <@Bela> hmmm
  910. 01[03/30/13 03:39:15] <@Bela> ah I see
  911. [03/30/13 03:40:36] <@Perri> http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/PinkParkaGirl/scotland_zpsaf70182a.png It seems like it could be a cool shape for a region
  912. [03/30/13 03:40:46] <@Perri> though of course we can put mountains and such where ever we want them
  913. 01[03/30/13 03:41:01] <@Bela> lol it reminds me of Kanto almost
  914. [03/30/13 03:41:24] <@Perri> ...No wonder I liked this spot when I found it on the map
  915. 01[03/30/13 03:41:24] <@Bela> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Firthofclydemap.png/531px-Firthofclydemap.png
  916. 01[03/30/13 03:41:26] <@Bela> well this does
  917. 01[03/30/13 03:41:27] <@Bela> lol
  918. [03/30/13 03:41:38] <@Perri> It is very Kanto-esque!
  919. [03/30/13 03:41:49] <@Perri> Yeah, the map you found looks better than the screencap I took
  920. 01[03/30/13 03:42:12] <@Bela> I would use what the wikimedia image shows
  921. 01[03/30/13 03:42:18] <@Bela> but have more land off to the right
  922. [03/30/13 03:42:19] <@Perri> Yeah :)
  923. 01[03/30/13 03:42:23] <@Bela> which is what's actually there too
  924. 01[03/30/13 03:42:34] <@Bela> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Scotland_in_the_UK_and_Europe.svg
  925. 01[03/30/13 03:42:41] <@Bela> can you spot where the Firth of Clyde is :P
  926. [03/30/13 03:43:09] <@Perri> I can! XD
  927. 01[03/30/13 03:43:11] <@Bela> the way there's land that sorta trails upward
  928. 01[03/30/13 03:43:18] <@Bela> reminds me of Sinnoh/Hokkaido
  929. [03/30/13 03:43:34] <@Perri> Yeah :)
  930. 01[03/30/13 03:43:44] <@Bela> but it'd probably be too far to do that
  931. 01[03/30/13 03:43:55] <@Bela> and it'd probably just end up looking like Sinnoh if we did that :P
  932. [03/30/13 03:44:34] <@Perri> The Firth of Clyde looks promising but we can still turn back to the map to find something else of course :)
  933. 01[03/30/13 03:46:01] <@Bela> the alternative I see there is maybe using Norway and Sweden
  934. [03/30/13 03:46:11] <@Perri> Taking a look there right now
  935. [03/30/13 03:47:09] <@Perri> Yeah, the coast of Norway has that same "island and peninsula" thing going on XD
  936. 01[03/30/13 03:47:14] <@Bela> lol yeah
  937. [03/30/13 03:47:29] <@Perri> I guess we should just decide whether a UK-inspired region or a Norway-inspired one works better for the story
  938. 01[03/30/13 03:47:30] <@Bela> I'm fine with what you chose
  939. [03/30/13 03:47:34] <@Perri> And pick accordingly
  940. 01[03/30/13 03:47:55] <@Bela> I'm not sure how much of what the landmass we chose will be reflected in the story
  941. 01[03/30/13 03:48:20] <@Bela> machomuu are you still alive :P
  942. [03/30/13 03:48:29] <@Perri> Wow, Wikipedia has a category for "Corruption in Norway" ...with a single article. XD
  943. [03/30/13 03:48:44] <@Perri> And that's true, we're mainly just stealing the landmass shape ^^
  944. [03/30/13 03:49:22] <@machomuu> Yeah, I'm here
  945. 01[03/30/13 03:49:33] <@Bela> okay, what do you think about all ^^^^^ this
  946. 01[03/30/13 03:49:56] <@Bela> and also what would we call such a place
  947. [03/30/13 03:50:12] <@Perri> Try searching Midfjorden - the surrounding area could also work as a region
  948. [03/30/13 03:50:30] <@Perri> I suppose we can compare this and the Firth of Clyde and decide which one we like better
  949. [03/30/13 03:51:11] <@Perri> A lot of islands, but to avoid Hoenn syndrome there could always be bridges or boats along with surfing
  950. [03/30/13 03:51:22] <@Darthatron> nobody cares if I'm alaive :(
  951. [03/30/13 03:51:26] <@Perri> D:
  952. 01[03/30/13 03:51:34] <@Bela> no, I know you're alive ;D
  953. [03/30/13 03:51:49] <@Darthatron> well if we use the "Natural Overworld Skills"
  954. [03/30/13 03:51:52] <@Darthatron> then
  955. [03/30/13 03:51:56] <@Darthatron> who needs those things
  956. [03/30/13 03:52:09] <@Perri> I think it's more that people hate surfing because WILD TENTACOOL APPEARED
  957. [03/30/13 03:52:31] <@Darthatron> IF ONLY THERE WAS SOME WAY TO MAKE THAT STOP
  958. [03/30/13 03:52:34] <@Darthatron> LIKE AN ITEM
  959. [03/30/13 03:52:37] <@Perri> Indeed~
  960. [03/30/13 03:52:40] <@Darthatron> TO REPEL THEM
  961. 01[03/30/13 03:52:59] <@Bela> or wild TENTACHA
  962. 01[03/30/13 03:53:04] <@Bela> as the Germans would call it
  963. 01[03/30/13 03:53:40] <@Bela> that's the only one that's different
  964. 01[03/30/13 03:53:48] <@Bela> the other languages still call it Tentacool
  965. [03/30/13 03:54:00] <@Perri> I can't imagine the Japanese call it Tentacool...do the? XD
  966. [03/30/13 03:54:02] <@Perri> *do they?
  967. 01[03/30/13 03:54:23] <@Bela> no that one's different obv
  968. 01[03/30/13 03:54:36] <@Bela> I meant the other european releases all call it tentacool
  969. 01[03/30/13 03:55:15] <@Bela> French/Spanish/Italian
  970. 01[03/30/13 03:58:09] <@Bela> NAME
  971. 01[03/30/13 03:58:12] <@Bela> what should the NAME BE
  972. [03/30/13 03:58:26] <@Perri> Hmm...Midfjorden would be interesting for all the islands, while Firth of Clyde is more balanced between land and water...
  973. [03/30/13 03:58:38] <@Perri> As for the name...hmm
  974. 01[03/30/13 03:58:42] <@Bela> The region name is now Midfjdjdfdjfdjfdk
  975. 01[03/30/13 03:59:11] <@Bela> okay next
  976. 01[03/30/13 03:59:15] <@Bela> what starters do you get
  977. 01[03/30/13 03:59:17] <@Bela> ;p
  978. [03/30/13 03:59:19] <@Perri> The names either reflect the region in some way, whether through literal means (Kanto) or more symbolic (Unova), or...I'm not sure what Hoenn really means come to think of it
  979. [03/30/13 03:59:39] <@Perri> Our three favorite pokemon? XD Seriously though...hmm.
  980. [03/30/13 03:59:58] <@machomuu> Are we doing 3?
  981. [03/30/13 04:00:12] <@Perri> Did we decide if our fifteen year old hero is going to be an established Trainer or a total newbie?
  982. [03/30/13 04:00:39] <@Perri> If he's established, he could have multiple starters (ala Wes) at a higher level
  983. 01[03/30/13 04:01:04] <@Bela> or just one maybe
  984. [03/30/13 04:01:14] <@Perri> Just one is fine too
  985. [03/30/13 04:01:24] <@machomuu> We could always have the game start at a flashback of when he gained his pokemon.
  986. [03/30/13 04:01:32] <@machomuu> *Starter
  987. 01[03/30/13 04:01:38] <@Bela> Dunsparce :p
  988. [03/30/13 04:02:07] <@machomuu> Or, alternatively, if the games have become more logical and have stopped allowing 10 year olds roam the earth on their own, I say we make him a newb
  989. 01[03/30/13 04:02:24] <@Bela> the picks are between Dunsparce, Nosepass, and Sunkern
  990. 01[03/30/13 04:03:14] <@Bela> okay but seriously
  991. [03/30/13 04:03:24] <@machomuu> Eh, I need to head to bed.
  992. 01[03/30/13 04:03:29] <@Bela> yeah I'm kinda tired myself
  993. 01[03/30/13 04:03:33] <@Bela> it's like what, 5 for you?
  994. [03/30/13 04:03:36] <@Perri> Then we'd have to explain the plothole left behind about why there's no ten year old trainers anymore
  995. [03/30/13 04:03:40] <@machomuu> Yeah
  996. [03/30/13 04:03:42] <@Perri> but we can worry about that nother time
  997. [03/30/13 04:03:44] <@Perri> *another
  998. 01[03/30/13 04:03:48] <@Bela> okay, goodnight guys
  999. [03/30/13 04:03:53] <@machomuu> Night!
  1000. 01[03/30/13 04:03:58] <@Bela> this was very productive
  1001. [03/30/13 04:04:05] <@Darthatron> picks between Mewtwo
  1002. [03/30/13 04:04:08] <@machomuu> It was :D
  1003. [03/30/13 04:04:08] <@Darthatron> and that's it
  1004. 01[03/30/13 04:04:12] <@Bela> Mewtwo and Mewtwo
  1005. 01[03/30/13 04:04:18] <@Bela> two Mewtwo
  1006. 02[03/30/13 04:04:20] * @machomuu (442195a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.149.166) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
  1007. [03/30/13 04:04:22] <@Perri> Agreed! We have some good ideas, two possible regions, and a LOT of worthwhile discussion :)
  1008. 01[03/30/13 04:04:33] <@Bela> we'll need to meet again
  1009. [03/30/13 04:04:47] <@Perri> Though maybe we should present the two possible regions to the graphics team and let them decide which they'd rathehr do?
  1010. 01[03/30/13 04:04:56] <@Bela> maybe
  1011. [03/30/13 04:04:58] <@Perri> Since it won't make an effect on the story either way which region it is
  1012. [03/30/13 04:05:26] <@Perri> It ony seems fair to give them a voice since they'll be makingit
  1013. 01[03/30/13 04:05:50] <@Bela> I think at some point they or someone related to mapping needs to decide
  1014. [03/30/13 04:05:57] <@Perri> Yeah
  1015. 01[03/30/13 04:06:13] <@Bela> because it's really up to them to decide where towns and routes go
  1016. 01[03/30/13 04:06:28] <@Bela> I would like for more people to be party to this discussion as well
  1017. 01[03/30/13 04:06:55] <@Bela> since at this point it really stops being about the story and it's just about the physical location
  1018. [03/30/13 04:07:21] <@Perri> Yeah, this one is for them to decide, the story is our main concern
  1019. 01[03/30/13 04:07:28] <@Bela> and in that case
  1020. 01[03/30/13 04:07:35] <@Bela> maybe they should be coming up with region on their own
  1021. 01[03/30/13 04:07:53] <@Bela> cuz we don't really have any basis in choosing part of Scotland other than it looks good :p
  1022. [03/30/13 04:08:01] <@Perri> Or Norway XD
  1023. [03/30/13 04:08:17] <@Perri> Yeah, we can present those as ideas but say "Ultimately, the choice is up to you guys"
  1024. 01[03/30/13 04:08:35] <@Bela> yeah, we should continue having these chats
  1025. [03/30/13 04:08:41] <@Perri> Definitely!
  1026. 01[03/30/13 04:08:42] <@Bela> and have it be with those guys now
  1027. [03/30/13 04:09:26] <@Perri> I'm totally for that
  1028. 01[03/30/13 04:09:45] <@Bela> okay, well I'm pretty tired myself
  1029. [03/30/13 04:09:56] <@Darthatron> yeah
  1030. [03/30/13 04:10:03] <@Darthatron> good jon guys
  1031. [03/30/13 04:10:05] <@Darthatron> :)
  1032. [03/30/13 04:10:11] <@Perri> XD
  1033. [03/30/13 04:11:39] <@Perri> And thanks - even when we disagreed, it was always civilly, and things worked out well. I feel accomplished :)
  1034. 01[03/30/13 04:13:08] <@Bela> yep
  1035. [03/30/13 04:16:28] <@Darthatron> go team
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