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Fwd: Re: Fantasy Flight Games [Rules Questions] - Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game: 2017-09-10 01:59:05
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Khift . <khift363@gmail.com>
12:34 AM (9 minutes ago)

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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Nate French" <nfrench@fantasyflightgames.com>
Date: Sep 11, 2017 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Fantasy Flight Games [Rules Questions] - Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game: 2017-09-10 01:59:05
To: "khift363@gmail.com" <khift363@gmail.com>
Cc: "Erik Dahlman" <edahlman@fantasyflightgames.com>, "Brad Andres" <bandres@fantasyflightgames.com>

The key word in that line is “consequences."

This potential is assessed without taking into account the consequences of the cost payment or any other ability interactions.

This means that I cannot trigger an ability that in and of itself would do nothing, but--as a consequence of the ability I want to trigger--another ability would cause the game state to change. (For instance, an constant ability that read “Each time you play an event, draw 1 card” could not be used to create a game state change that would enable you to play any event at any time.)

Another ability that prevents the the game state from changing is not a consequence of an ability interaction, and therefore such preventative abilities can limit the potential of an effect to change the game state.

In your example, there is no potential for the effect of Miyako’s ability to change the game state, and therefore the ability cannot be triggered.

I’ll revise the line in this manner to make the intent more clear:

This potential is assessed without taking into account the consequences of the cost payment or the consequences of any other ability interactions that might cause the game state to change.



On Sep 10, 2017, at 1:59 AM, no-reply@fantasyflightgames.com wrote:

Message from:
Paul Johnson


E-mail:
khift363@gmail.com


Rules Question:
On what to ignore and what to account for. This question is going to be pretty abstract and is primarily about trying to figure out the meaning of a line in the Rules Reference for future use / knowledge rather than mapping out an interaction in the game that ever has a chance to matter, but technically this example could come up in play, and so I am asking it. The Rules Reference guide, pg 16, under Triggering Conditions, has the following line: "A triggered ability can only be initiated if its effect has the potential to change the game state on its own. This potential is assessed without taking into account the consequences of the cost payment or any other ability interactions." Specifically it is that last clause I am asking about here, the one instructing the player to ignore other ability interactions when determining if the ability's effect can change the game state. The situation, therefore, is as follows: A scorpion player has a Shosuro Miyako (Core Set #104) in play and their opponent has a Steward of Law (Core Set #139) in play and participating in a conflict. The opponent has only ordinary characters and no cards in hand. The scorpion player then plays a conflict character from their hand. Can the scorpion player trigger Miyako's ability? Shosuro Miyako reads: "Reaction: After you play a character from your hand, your opponent must select one - discard 1 card at random from his or her hand or choose and dishonor a character he or she controls." Steward of Law reads: "While this character is participating in a conflict, characters cannot become dishonored." The opponent has no cards in hand, so they cannot discard any more cards. However, due to Steward of Law's constant ability and the fact that the opponent's characters are all ordinary, this opponent also has no characters which they could dishonor. The situation appears to be ripe for saying that this ability's effect cannot change the game state and therefore the ability cannot be triggered, but that same exact bullet point in the Rules Reference also instructs us to determine this potential to change the game state "without taking into account... any other ability interactions" - and if we ignore Steward of Law's constant ability then Shosuro Miyako's ability could actually change the game state as it could reduce a character from ordinary to dishonored. So are we home free? Can Shosuro Miyako's ability be used? In short what I'm hoping for here is to figure out what that line is supposed to mean, as there've been some disagreements on what it does and doesn't mean. Thanks for making such a great game, Paul Johnson



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