yarrrr

2019-02-18 19:00 Wanko: yo
2019-02-18 19:00 Wanko: 
ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1929273 Taiiku Okazaki - Kimi No Bouken [Hamano's Adventure]]

2019-02-18 19:00 Wanko: want to talk about this?
2019-02-18 19:01 Hamano: sure fam
2019-02-18 19:01 Hamano: what do u want to say / ask about it?^^
2019-02-18 19:01 Wanko: i want to mod it for you
2019-02-18 19:01 Wanko: but i like to do it in chat cuz i get to hear your thoughts in real time
2019-02-18 19:02 Hamano: uh yea suree :DDDD
2019-02-18 19:02 Wanko: first of all, make sure your objects are snapped correctly
2019-02-18 19:02 Wanko: 00:00:508 (1) -
2019-02-18 19:02 Wanko: first object and it's already off xd
2019-02-18 19:03 Hamano: must have acceidently moved it. sry^^'
2019-02-18 19:03 Wanko: there's some sliderends that are not snapped as well, you can check them in aimod (ctrl+shift+a)
2019-02-18 19:04 Wanko: 00:00:458 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - now let's look here
2019-02-18 19:04 Wanko: imo the sv is too high
2019-02-18 19:04 Wanko: this is pretty calm so something slower would work better
2019-02-18 19:05 Wanko: when mapping are you focusing on a single layer at a time? like vocals or drums or whatever other instrument
2019-02-18 19:06 Hamano: hmm im focused mostly on the background first if i can do anything with that or if it just repeats or the voice fits better*
2019-02-18 19:07 Wanko: generally in parts like here you'd follow the vocals
2019-02-18 19:07 Wanko: it's the main melody here
2019-02-18 19:07 Wanko: you're following them more or less from what i can see
2019-02-18 19:08 Hamano: yea
2019-02-18 19:09 Wanko: ok let's follow the vocals then, 00:01:658 (3) - anything feels off to you?
2019-02-18 19:09 Wanko: rhythm-wise
2019-02-18 19:10 Hamano: hm idk it feels off tho
2019-02-18 19:10 Hamano: theres like alot of vocals that arent rly used and its kinda timed weirdly?
2019-02-18 19:11 Wanko: let me show you
2019-02-18 19:11 Wanko: make sure you're working with 1/4 snap btw
2019-02-18 19:12 Hamano: hm i gtg for now. make sure to leave any feedback in chat so i can have a look at it later
2019-02-18 19:12 Wanko: oh lol
2019-02-18 19:12 Wanko: https://puu.sh/COb2s/dcc3b6b242.png
2019-02-18 19:13 Wanko: well try this kind of rhythm for the first measure
2019-02-18 19:13 Wanko: poke me later if you want to go through it together
2019-02-18 19:13 Hamano: yes sir!
2019-02-18 19:47 Hamano: sry im baka
2019-02-18 19:47 Wanko: wb
2019-02-18 19:47 Hamano: thx i updated the map
2019-02-18 19:47 Hamano: it should be better now
2019-02-18 19:47 Hamano: thx :)
2019-02-18 19:48 Wanko: well, xD want to continue? i just started
2019-02-18 19:48 Hamano: yupp
2019-02-18 19:48 Wanko: ok
2019-02-18 19:48 Wanko: you snapped this incorrectly again 00:01:558 (3) -
2019-02-18 19:48 Hamano: fam im lucky to have a mod msg me about my map soo xd
2019-02-18 19:48 Wanko: snap it to red
2019-02-18 19:48 Wanko: i just stalked yui's queue for something to mod
2019-02-18 19:49 Hamano: ah oko
2019-02-18 19:49 Wanko: right so we talked about how it feels too fast for a calm section
2019-02-18 19:50 Hamano: hmm yea
2019-02-18 19:50 Wanko: https://puu.sh/COc10/97809c973f.png
2019-02-18 19:50 Wanko: fisrt snap this
2019-02-18 19:51 Wanko: easy way to do it is go to where you want to snap it, long white line here, press f6, find the green line and hit 'use current timing'
2019-02-18 19:52 Wanko: so your timing point and that 0.75x inherited (green) point should be at the same timing
2019-02-18 19:53 Hamano: yea done :D
2019-02-18 19:53 Wanko: cool
2019-02-18 19:53 Wanko: check your snap divisor now
2019-02-18 19:53 Wanko: top right corner
2019-02-18 19:53 Wanko: is it 1/4?
2019-02-18 19:53 Hamano: 1/6**
2019-02-18 19:53 Wanko: ye, thought so, make it 1/4
2019-02-18 19:54 Wanko: that's why you snapped the sliders incorrectly
2019-02-18 19:54 Hamano: ah
2019-02-18 19:54 Hamano: thx
2019-02-18 19:54 Wanko: now
2019-02-18 19:55 Wanko: you probably dont think about angles yet
2019-02-18 19:55 Wanko: but
2019-02-18 19:55 Wanko: in soft sections like this 'soft' angles are usually used
2019-02-18 19:55 Wanko: like 15-30 degrees
2019-02-18 19:56 Hamano: hm
2019-02-18 19:56 Wanko: uh xD before we go further https://puu.sh/COcaV/8d8ddd798c.png
2019-02-18 19:56 Wanko: can you delete these?
2019-02-18 19:56 Wanko: there's no need for such a massive speedup
2019-02-18 19:57 Hamano: eh i like those tho xd
2019-02-18 19:58 Wanko: at least the 1.5x is not needed
2019-02-18 19:59 Wanko: i guess you wanted to express the slightly louder vocals with that speedup?
2019-02-18 19:59 Hamano: yea
2019-02-18 20:00 Wanko: right so the thing about that is you don't really have to do massive changes for each individual sound
2019-02-18 20:00 Wanko: it's way easier for you and the player if you divide your 'intense' and less intense parts into longer sections
2019-02-18 20:01 Hamano: hm yea but how :7
2019-02-18 20:01 Wanko: hm let's start with the basics
2019-02-18 20:01 Wanko: do you know what a measure is?
2019-02-18 20:02 Hamano: yea
2019-02-18 20:02 Wanko: ok so usually you go with 4 measures
2019-02-18 20:02 Wanko: for a section
2019-02-18 20:02 Wanko: and sometimes there's a transition in 4th so you can start changing things up there
2019-02-18 20:03 Hamano: hm, where is there tho
2019-02-18 20:03 Wanko: first measure will be at the start of the map
2019-02-18 20:04 Wanko: 2nd 00:01:658 (4) -
2019-02-18 20:04 Wanko: 00:04:658 (4) -
2019-02-18 20:04 Wanko: look here
2019-02-18 20:04 Wanko: the vocals change in 4th measure
2019-02-18 20:04 Wanko: so you can do the transition here
2019-02-18 20:04 Wanko: and if you keep the intro, 1st 3 measures calm and simple the transition will have more of an impact
2019-02-18 20:05 Wanko: then you do something different for the next 4 measures
2019-02-18 20:05 Wanko: with similar rhythm
2019-02-18 20:05 Wanko: in this case you can bump the sv a bit for example and go with 1/2 sliderspam
2019-02-18 20:06 Wanko: check out the next 4 measures
2019-02-18 20:06 Wanko: 00:05:258 (5) - starting here
2019-02-18 20:07 Wanko: can you see any patterns there? like try to describe what's happening
2019-02-18 20:09 Hamano: hm yea i just changed it xd
2019-02-18 20:10 Wanko: dont change stuff for now xd let's do some theory and then you might be able to see what's wrong yourself
2019-02-18 20:10 Hamano: yea xd sry fam
2019-02-18 20:10 Wanko: np np
2019-02-18 20:10 Wanko: so tell me about those 4 next measures xd
2019-02-18 20:10 Wanko: what's going on there
2019-02-18 20:11 Wanko: (hint: drums)
2019-02-18 20:13 Hamano: eh i was thinking more of how the pattern is in the first one, i dont focus too much on sounds until im finished making the placements of notes**
2019-02-18 20:13 Wanko: your objects reflect the music so it's a good idea to think of that beforehand xd
2019-02-18 20:14 Wanko: 00:06:308 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - what's the reasoning here? stronger vocals?
2019-02-18 20:15 Hamano: basically yea and the bg sounds*
2019-02-18 20:16 Wanko: it would have worked if you focused vocals before that
2019-02-18 20:16 Hamano: ^^'
2019-02-18 20:17 Wanko: 00:05:708 like here
2019-02-18 20:17 Wanko: oops
2019-02-18 20:17 Wanko: 00:05:708 (2) -
2019-02-18 20:17 Wanko: some of the vocals in this song land on the red lines
2019-02-18 20:17 Hamano: hm mby i should make the notes go in a different order to represent the vocals better den?
2019-02-18 20:18 Wanko: right
2019-02-18 20:18 Hamano: hm
2019-02-18 20:18 Wanko: and to do that you need to understand what's happening with the vocals :D
2019-02-18 20:18 Hamano: thats a gud idea fam
2019-02-18 20:19 Wanko: to me it sounds like they're suddenly spiking in intensity and then slowly calming down
2019-02-18 20:19 Wanko: what do you think
2019-02-18 20:20 Hamano: yea i didnt know how to change it to less intense after the peak*
2019-02-18 20:20 Wanko: there are 2 basic ways to control intensity
2019-02-18 20:20 Wanko: or emphasis
2019-02-18 20:20 Wanko: 1) angles 2) spacing
2019-02-18 20:21 Wanko: first you need a correct rhythm tho
2019-02-18 20:21 Wanko: try to map longer syllabus as sliders and shorter as circles
2019-02-18 20:21 Wanko: give it a try and update, i'll see what you've made
2019-02-18 20:21 Wanko: just the rhythm for now dont worry about positioning
2019-02-18 20:28 Wanko: how you doing xD
2019-02-18 20:28 Hamano: idk how much changed since i kinda saved after some position changes so i had to redo some stuff^^
2019-02-18 20:28 Wanko: ah i see
2019-02-18 20:29 Wanko: well for now i'm just interested in part from 00:05:258 (4) - to 00:07:358 (1) -
2019-02-18 20:29 Hamano: yeaaa xd
2019-02-18 20:30 Wanko: 00:05:258 (5,1) -
2019-02-18 20:30 Hamano: i tried to make it more to the vocals if that makes sense? xd
2019-02-18 20:30 Wanko: skipping vocals yo
2019-02-18 20:31 Wanko: https://puu.sh/COdbe/4835cedf89.png
2019-02-18 20:31 Wanko: try this
2019-02-18 20:32 Hamano: oahh that sound so much betterrr
2019-02-18 20:33 Wanko: yeah because your vocals are focused on red ticks
2019-02-18 20:33 Wanko: white are just filler drums
2019-02-18 20:33 Hamano: ooooooo x-x
2019-02-18 20:33 Wanko: it's not true for every song tho keep that in mind
2019-02-18 20:34 Hamano: fml so much re:mapping to do x-x
2019-02-18 20:34 Wanko: hah that's how you learn
2019-02-18 20:34 Wanko: you have no idea how many times i've remapped my maps
2019-02-18 20:34 Hamano: yeaa
2019-02-18 20:35 Wanko: also you dont really have to remap, you can use the knowledge you gain for your next map
2019-02-18 20:35 Wanko: and make it better~
2019-02-18 20:35 Wanko: 00:06:308 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - let's focus on this now
2019-02-18 20:35 Hamano: yup
2019-02-18 20:36 Hamano: i tried to do different shapes
2019-02-18 20:36 Wanko: what sounds there are the most important?
2019-02-18 20:36 Wanko: like
2019-02-18 20:36 Wanko: the main focus
2019-02-18 20:36 Wanko: try to pick 1 or 2
2019-02-18 20:37 Hamano: hm drum thingy i guess
2019-02-18 20:37 Wanko: boo boo
2019-02-18 20:37 Wanko: remember we're focusing vocals
2019-02-18 20:38 Wanko: ignore the drums, they're filler
2019-02-18 20:38 Hamano: oh i was on the wrong part sry xd ^^'
2019-02-18 20:38 Wanko: 00:06:308 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) -
2019-02-18 20:38 Hamano: yea more sliders right?
2019-02-18 20:38 Wanko: well
2019-02-18 20:38 Wanko: ok i'll help you
2019-02-18 20:38 Wanko: 00:06:308 (1) -
2019-02-18 20:38 Wanko: 00:06:608 (3) -
2019-02-18 20:38 Hamano: thx
2019-02-18 20:39 Wanko: there are the important parts
2019-02-18 20:39 Wanko: 00:06:308 (1) - because there's a change up in previous vocal pattern
2019-02-18 20:39 Wanko: and 00:06:608 (3) - because it's the peak, most intense part of it
2019-02-18 20:39 Hamano: hm yea how do i reflect that on to the map tho
2019-02-18 20:39 Wanko: then after that there's gradual loss of intensity
2019-02-18 20:40 Wanko: angles or distance
2019-02-18 20:40 Wanko: with your pattern distance will work
2019-02-18 20:40 Wanko: 00:06:308 (1,2) - first you can make these a slider instead
2019-02-18 20:40 Wanko: to highlight the exntended vocals
2019-02-18 20:41 Wanko: also not having (2) a clickable object will give more impact to both 00:06:308 (1) - and 00:06:608 (3) - because there's a pause in tapping
2019-02-18 20:41 Wanko: does that make sense?
2019-02-18 20:43 Hamano: clickable object?
2019-02-18 20:43 Wanko: like a circle or the beginning of a slider
2019-02-18 20:44 Wanko: you dont click on a slidertail
2019-02-18 20:44 Wanko: so it's not a clickable object
2019-02-18 20:45 Hamano: oko
2019-02-18 20:45 Wanko: alright
2019-02-18 20:45 Wanko: so then you want to 'reflect the vocals' next
2019-02-18 20:45 Wanko: there are 2 ways you can do it with just circles
2019-02-18 20:46 Wanko: you can either make a long jump then gradually decrease the spacing
2019-02-18 20:46 Wanko: or
2019-02-18 20:46 Wanko: you can make 3 circles same, long spacing and the next 3 rly small spacing
2019-02-18 20:46 Wanko: for contrast between the two
2019-02-18 20:47 Wanko: let's try the 2nd option for now cuz it's easier
2019-02-18 20:48 Hamano: from the bottom up or bottom down?
2019-02-18 20:48 Wanko: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/12723331
2019-02-18 20:48 Wanko: try doing this
2019-02-18 20:48 Wanko: it's a simple pattern but it's just to show you how it works
2019-02-18 20:52 Hamano: ez done
2019-02-18 20:53 Wanko: ok, can you see how it works?
2019-02-18 20:53 Wanko: higher pitch vocals as larger triangle and low pitch as small triangle
2019-02-18 20:53 Hamano: yea spacing**
2019-02-18 20:53 Wanko: good~
2019-02-18 20:54 Wanko: next up we have a build up in the song
2019-02-18 20:54 Wanko: the 4th measure btw
2019-02-18 20:54 Wanko: transition
2019-02-18 20:54 Wanko: here you can try something spaced more again, the vocals and bg instruments are both picking up
2019-02-18 20:55 Wanko: so between 00:07:658 and 00:08:858 is your time to do some increased spacing again
2019-02-18 20:55 Wanko: i broke the formatting again
2019-02-18 20:55 Wanko: anyway
2019-02-18 20:55 Wanko: what's the difference in vocals here though?
2019-02-18 20:56 Wanko: in this one particular measure, what changes?
2019-02-18 20:56 Hamano: a high note and a flat one right?
2019-02-18 20:57 Wanko: well that too
2019-02-18 20:57 Wanko: but think rhythm
2019-02-18 20:57 Wanko: or to be more precise, syllabus density
2019-02-18 20:58 Wanko: there are only long vocal notes in that measure
2019-02-18 20:58 Wanko: can you hear it?
2019-02-18 20:58 Hamano: yea
2019-02-18 20:58 Wanko: how would you map that to make it stand out from the jumps before?
2019-02-18 21:00 Hamano: slow ones mby
2019-02-18 21:00 Hamano: like not as fast i guess
2019-02-18 21:00 Wanko: it's a buildup though :3
2019-02-18 21:01 Wanko: so things are getting intense
2019-02-18 21:01 Wanko: yet vocals are less dense
2019-02-18 21:01 Hamano: yea so slow ones at start?
2019-02-18 21:01 Hamano: sliders*
2019-02-18 21:01 Wanko: you can use 1/2 sliders to show that the rhythm is more sparse
2019-02-18 21:01 Wanko: with high spacing
2019-02-18 21:01 Wanko: or more like, gradually increasing spacing
2019-02-18 21:01 Wanko: to show the build-up part
2019-02-18 21:02 Wanko: there's another way, stacks of 2 circles instead of sliders
2019-02-18 21:02 Hamano: i like the idea of spacing tbh
2019-02-18 21:02 Wanko: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/12723452
2019-02-18 21:03 Wanko: try to do that and see if you like it
2019-02-18 21:03 Wanko: dont have to be exact same positioning, just the idea of gradual increase in spacing and sliders pointing inwards
2019-02-18 21:08 Hamano: yea im done now with that part^^
2019-02-18 21:09 Wanko: ok
2019-02-18 21:09 Wanko: so next you have this part where nothing really happens
2019-02-18 21:09 Wanko: with long vocals
2019-02-18 21:10 Wanko: and tension kinda building up in the background
2019-02-18 21:10 Hamano: yea i think long sliders are still the best choice for that part*
2019-02-18 21:10 Wanko: ye, that or
2019-02-18 21:10 Wanko: the object nobody can freaking use correctly
2019-02-18 21:10 Wanko: the spinner
2019-02-18 21:11 Wanko: when you have such a buildup with tension rising in the background but nothing really happens it's a good idea to use a spinner
2019-02-18 21:11 Wanko: or long ass sliders
2019-02-18 21:11 Wanko: that's your choice xd
2019-02-18 21:11 Wanko: both work tbh
2019-02-18 21:12 Hamano: yea sliders are better since u can move them more to the tension*
2019-02-18 21:12 Wanko: right
2019-02-18 21:12 Wanko: let's go with sliders then
2019-02-18 21:13 Wanko: what kind of rhythm would you go with?
2019-02-18 21:13 Wanko: there's like 3 vocal notes total
2019-02-18 21:13 Wanko: and nothing else
2019-02-18 21:14 Hamano: hm
2019-02-18 21:15 Hamano: two sliders with the middle tone being a sliderend?
2019-02-18 21:15 Wanko: yeah that's one possibility
2019-02-18 21:15 Wanko: most people would probably do that
2019-02-18 21:16 Wanko: what if you want all of them clickable?
2019-02-18 21:16 Wanko: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/12723531
2019-02-18 21:16 Wanko: just throwing it in because that's a possibility i would go for
2019-02-18 21:16 Hamano: eh thats a weird ass pattern xd
2019-02-18 21:16 Wanko: yeah xd
2019-02-18 21:17 Wanko: 2 long sliders are perfectly fine too
2019-02-18 21:18 Wanko: ok so now if you want we can keep going but i think you just got a lot of information to swallow
2019-02-18 21:18 Wanko: up to you
2019-02-18 21:18 Hamano: yea ill download some of ur maps to get inspiration
2019-02-18 21:18 Hamano: i did that at the end if u didnt notice xd
2019-02-18 21:19 Wanko: oof my maps arent exactly meta
2019-02-18 21:19 Hamano: hm patterns and timing tho
2019-02-18 21:19 Wanko: well anyway, if you want feedback or anything just poke me
2019-02-18 21:20 Hamano: yea thx alot
2019-02-18 21:20 Wanko: you're welcome ~