stuff boobledoop

[1:56 AM] Dhara Sai: btw, i replied with:  "when you needed my help, i put my own feelings aside and did what you needed me to do. please help me. please do the same."
[1:56 AM] Dhara Sai: is what she's trying, perhaps badly, to say.
[1:57 AM] MochaKimono: He feels like he just got dragged for an injustice and that she's trying to say 'support' means 'don't tell me your opinions'....
[2:00 AM] Dhara Sai: it kinda does, though. that's exactly what she's saying/
[2:01 AM] Dhara Sai: she didn't put her opinions into his quest
[2:01 AM] MochaKimono: Yyyyyyeah he's not expressing one to her again at this rate
[2:02 AM] Dhara Sai: damnit.
[2:03 AM] Dhara Sai: i done fucked up.
[2:03 AM] Dhara Sai: ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
[2:12 AM] MochaKimono: Yeah the mixed signals have screwed this sideways. She wants him to open up, chastises for secrecy and paranoia, tells him he has nothing to fear from upsetting her, wants him to talk and be assertive..... Only lasts right up until he disagrees and then he has nothing of value to add to the discourse and the best and only thing is for him to not tell her anything. He feels like it was a bit of a trap... Aaaand he's not going to say so
[2:17 AM] MochaKimono: And now he also feels like she was just holding on to her grievances about Zenta to whip out at a strategic opportunity x_x
[2:17 AM] Dhara Sai: he kinda ambushed her about this though, and she feels super judged by all this. and it's like all about him and how he feels, and she is literally being tortured in her sleep every night... like, she isn't buying that he's concerned, because he isnt acting concerned. She feels like he's judging her decisions before she even makes them.
[2:18 AM] MochaKimono: The ambushing was a very misguided expression of concern
[2:19 AM] MochaKimono: And... Well, he thought she meant nightmares. And opening up about his nightmares in more detail than he's told anyone so far and she said "that tale is sad but irrelevant" well :\ he was trying to find some common ground of understanding there... And it's... Another thing almost guaranteeing he doesn't open up again to her
[2:20 AM] Dhara Sai: he is, though, showing no interest in what she's going through. he just keeps talking about himself.
[2:21 AM] Dhara Sai: and that's what she's reacting to
[2:21 AM] MochaKimono: He did say "I'm worried about you and am afraid about your soul and want to help" ...
[2:26 AM] MochaKimono: Someone high strung and prone to outbursts has a naturally hard time with someone who just shuts down and initiates flight response to conflict X_x
[2:26 AM] Dhara Sai: omg it's so true
[2:26 AM] Dhara Sai: they are the worst in tense situations
[2:27 AM] MochaKimono: He really thinks anything he says anymore will make everything worse...
[2:27 AM] MochaKimono: ...since so far it's been completely true!
[5:44 AM] MochaKimono: Pakani is not in fact there by morning, btw
[8:02 AM] Dhara Sai: Aw
[8:02 AM] Dhara Sai: But she was makin waffles
[8:12 AM] Dhara Sai: I guess Dhara's response to this would be sort of grim acceptance? She feels like pakani is too wrapped up in his own hurts to support her in her own. She's thinks he's being pretty selfish, though she acknowledges that he probably can't help it.
[8:15 AM] Dhara Sai: Remember a while ago when we were talking about hard it is for two similarly traumatized people to be together? This is it.
[8:22 AM] MochaKimono: Heh
[8:23 AM] MochaKimono: You know... his main reservations on killing Zenta were actually because he  didn't want everyone else to get killed or enslaved for causing a ruckus in thay
[8:23 AM] Dhara Sai: I know
[8:23 AM] MochaKimono: She... made it sound not like that when she brought it up
[8:24 AM] Dhara Sai: Well I know, but Dhara would be very caught up in the fact that they could've helped but didnt
[8:24 AM] MochaKimono: And... the point of his anecdote about the scars... wasn't just an attempt to try to find some common ground there... but to make a point that his belief is that it's better to maintain piety than to save yourself
[8:25 AM] Dhara Sai: Yeah, but Dhara is facing literal eternal torture.
[8:25 AM] MochaKimono: She's been one of the few folks he knows to really stick to her guns about hating necromancy - heck, she snapped at him for thinking he was on a necromancer's side - and now she's like "oh well actually"
[8:25 AM] Dhara Sai: So the stakes aren't the same.
[8:25 AM] Dhara Sai: She's backed into a wall
[8:26 AM] MochaKimono: I mean... She could've just died and had a nice peaceful afterlife
[8:26 AM] Dhara Sai: No she can't?
[8:26 AM] MochaKimono: But she made a pact and now keeps digging herself a deeper hole and.. pilin' on the sins
[8:26 AM] MochaKimono: I mean as an alternative to making a pact at all
[8:26 AM] Dhara Sai: This is the kind of talk that would make her feel very judged
[8:27 AM] MochaKimono: yeup
[8:27 AM] MochaKimono: Which is why he won't say it.
[8:28 AM] MochaKimono: If she becomes undead though, uh... friendship basically over, I'm gonna warn ya @_@ He might put on a good show of taking necromancy with a grain of salt, but he's still a Chauntean underneath... And all undead are an abomination against nature.
[8:28 AM] MochaKimono: He barely tolerates the concept of baelnorns
[8:29 AM] Dhara Sai: Noted. It still isn't a done deal, though Ben is being pushy (she's suspicious of that).
[8:30 AM] MochaKimono: In his mind - she could either try to fulfill her pact with lots of murder, take the potion that might drive her mad... or lie in the bed she's made (not ideal, but...)
[8:30 AM] Dhara Sai: She doesn't deserve that
[8:31 AM] MochaKimono: while he does acknowledge, he hasn't been faced directly with the option of a pact - he's been faced with options that could've spelt damnation, or generally forsaking piety in favor of self-preservation - but still
[8:31 AM] Dhara Sai: She got tricked into this
[8:31 AM] MochaKimono: yeah
[8:31 AM] Dhara Sai: She didn't seek out or ask for power or anything
[8:31 AM] MochaKimono: He does remember her saying that which is also part of why he really wanted to help her escape that pact
[8:32 AM] Dhara Sai: What Dhara missed in all this was pakani asking her how she was holding up, how she felt about all this, how it was affecting her. He's like super focused on the morality of it, and as a chaotic aligned individual, that like totally tertiary to her.
[8:33 AM] MochaKimono: idk... she seemed to have made her feelings pretty known... asking her how she felt when she was telling him how she felt already would've come across as sass, I think
[8:34 AM] Dhara Sai: That isn't what I mean. I mean like emotionally. She feels like he doesn't cares about how hard this is on her, how terrified she is, how completely hopeless she's feeling.
[8:35 AM] MochaKimono: She did say those things too though
[8:35 AM] Dhara Sai: And it didn't really change how he was responding to her
[8:35 AM] MochaKimono: he... does not think she is going to be honest or forthright to him by this point
[8:36 AM] Dhara Sai: She's not. She can't trust him to be sensitive.
[8:36 AM] MochaKimono: asking how she feels, what her plans are, any of that, in his mind, is a fruitless endeavor
[8:37 AM] Dhara Sai: I mean... Anora lies about how her shit affects her all the time and it doesn't stop Dhara from continuing to care and be sensitive and supportive.
[8:37 AM] MochaKimono: Pakani barely gets close to Anora either
[8:37 AM] Dhara Sai: Yeah.
[8:37 AM] MochaKimono: Again, he just thinks he'll be shunned or lied to if he tries to probe
[8:38 AM] MochaKimono: the line about "well how many secrets do you keep? or Anora, or Graye?" is naaawt helping the paranoia about that either
[8:39 AM] MochaKimono: he's like "well I've been a gosh darn open book with everyone but I guess I am the only one in my friend circle who is honest, and look where that gets me :l " and now he's wondering if everyone is secretly holding on to grievances against him, lying to him, hiding things, secretly thinking he's not a good friend
[8:39 AM] Dhara Sai: He will be lied to, most likely. This whole thing is just wrecking her. She doesn't trust him at all now. He really isn't being a good friend, as far as Dhara is concerned.
[8:39 AM] MochaKimono: Funny, he doesn't think she is either lol
[8:41 AM] MochaKimono: At this point he feels like no matter what, everything ends in a fight, she's gonna yell at him or humiliate him in front of people, and he'll be the one forced to apologize in the end anyway, and she only retains him as a parrot for her own opinions or a useful tool
[8:41 AM] Dhara Sai: Oh damn. That is harsh. She like, really cares about him.
[8:42 AM] MochaKimono: every time he has expressed concern about her she snapped at him for being patronizing
[8:42 AM] MochaKimono: and he's frankly been intimidated of her for a while now
[8:42 AM] MochaKimono: and it's reached eggshells territory
[8:42 AM] Dhara Sai: Yeah.
[8:43 AM] MochaKimono: like the only time she didn't get mad at him for trying to reach out was when he got upset when she admitted she contemplated suicide, really...
[8:45 AM] MochaKimono: Like... and Anora admitting she's been deceptive to him and hid most details about her life from him, and drawing him into a web of danger for her own needs... a recent conversation
[8:46 AM] Dhara Sai: I'm gonna brb while you type, and my e I could long-form respond to all of it when you're done?
[8:46 AM] MochaKimono: He's been feeling tool-like and doubting all his friendships. Last night was the capstone of that :s
[8:46 AM] MochaKimono: my e?
[8:46 AM] MochaKimono: oh, maybe? sure
[8:47 AM] Dhara Sai: Like I want to be polite and let you say what you wanna say.
[8:48 AM] MochaKimono: By now he feels like the best thing he can do anymore is not bother Dhara at all... otherwise he'll inevitably upset her somehow
[8:52 AM] MochaKimono: like man, the repeated variations of telling him not to talk to her, basically - don't disagree, nothing to add, nothing useful to say - punched so many holes in his self-esteem... That's how he was trained, the mindset he tries to get out of, to be more... person-like and engage people on equal footing, and she knocked him right down off that peg
[8:54 AM] MochaKimono: and then saying "no I do value your opinions, you don't have to shut up and agree" - came across as downright manipulative to him, like she was losing the reins and had to change her tune to reel him in again. In general lots of mixed signals over the whole timespan that make him start to think she does it on purpose to trap him in unwinnable conversations so she can let off steam by yelling at him. I know it's not the case, but he's paranoid as heck and seeing patterns where there really aren't any
[8:59 AM] MochaKimono: and thing is - yeah. he does judge her. He judges her, and Ben, and... He has already bent a lot of his code for her so far, with the helping her murder and hide bodies, and all of that, and then she goes "but this way people don't get hurt"... And then also say "oh I'm actually staying with Bhael cuz he can keep the cops off my back"... Yeah, he's feeling judgmental, like she's way too willing to bend ethics to save her own skin. Even considering undeath as an option was a step too far in his mind :( she's damned either way, and getting double-damned by betraying her god (on the off-chance she wiggles out of Belial's claws) seems not just unethical but plain stupid to him
[9:01 AM] MochaKimono: But... he already said the gist of that anyway and doesn't see the worth in rehashing it. She'll do whatever she does and will live or die with those consequences now, whether she decides to take up his offer to help (in non-undeath ways) or not...
[9:05 AM] MochaKimono: and after his basically constant concern over her wellbeing and jumping in to help on a moment's notice for things that put him at serious risk (legally and physically), and then she acts like he's a terrible friend for having exactly one line he doesn't think should be crossed, and shunning him and shutting him out because of it, after everything else so far... yeah :\
[9:05 AM] MochaKimono: I s'pose that's my piece for nooow
[9:08 AM] Dhara Sai: lemme catch up a minute
[9:09 AM] MochaKimono: kk
[9:26 AM] Dhara Sai: So Dhara is, by necessity, very self interested. She's a deeply terrified person, and basically driven by self preservation. She has a few lines in the sand, mostly regarding slavery and shitting on the poor, and even those she's willing to bend if it suits her. Like, going to Thay and buying a slave, partificipating in that economy, made her absolutely sick, but she did it because she was, in her mind, being a good freind. She doesn't understand why Pakani isnt's willing to bend his own morals for her, because in her mind morals are inherantly flexible when they need to be- again, chaotic. I also want to zero in on something you said -"When he was upset with her about contemplating suicide"- because it kind of sums up why his responses to her are so triggering. Like, he doesn't show very much compassion for her. "Upset" isn't a helpful thing to be towards a suicidal person. He just hasn't been there for her much lately. His 'concern' doesn't feel like concern, it feels like an attack, and then when she lashes out in response the conversation shifts from what she's going through to what he's going through. His appology last light felt very manipulative, to her. After the argument they had in the mask, she appologized to him in a very different way- very sincere, without asking for attention because of it. But pakani appologizes and he's getting up from the table and slinking from the room, and then ben runs after him, and it feels like he is making this all about him.
[9:26 AM] Dhara Sai: Even leaving this morning... Dhara's waking up crying and screaming from these dreams where belial tortures her, and graye is rocking her back to sleep and making her tea and fiddling with alchemy to try to help her, but pakani never even asked her about it. And now he's leaving. and even if it makes sense to him, it makes no sense to her. So she's grasping at straws, figuring out what she can do save this friendship, but the bottom line for her is going to be that she was there for pakani, judgement free and willing to bend her morals for him when he needed her to, and he isn't willing to do the same.
[9:36 AM] MochaKimono: Well, the torment she mentioned, he thought she meant nightmares. It doesn't occur to him she meant something unusual like that, and he's not psychic :s
[9:36 AM] Dhara Sai: she'd have told him if he, even once, asked if she was okay
[9:36 AM] Dhara Sai: cause she's not
[9:38 AM] MochaKimono: The way he bends and scrapes his apologies without getting too close... is exactly how he was trained. Make it about how you failed and how sorry and pathetic and inferior you are, don't get inappropriately cozy asking about Mistress's feelings, if you even have to ask you're already too stupid to deserve to know, and most of all get out of the way and far away when superiors are in a mood, or else...
[9:40 AM] Dhara Sai: yeah. i get that ooc, but IC it just reads to her as insincerity and manipulating others to feel sorry for him.
[9:40 AM] MochaKimono: Also he did follow up the bit about the suicide with "hey please if you ever feel like that again please talk to someone"
[9:40 AM] Dhara Sai: buut not "talk to me." very impersonal.
[9:40 AM] MochaKimono: It's quite sad they both so care a lot for each other but believe the other not to at all
[9:41 AM] Dhara Sai: i know!
[9:41 AM] Dhara Sai: dhara flat out loves him.
[9:41 AM] MochaKimono: He doesn't think he deserves to be the sole bearer of that. She already talked to Anora after all
[9:41 AM] MochaKimono: And she has Graye now
[9:41 AM] MochaKimono: Who he actually expresses most of his concern toward and asks about dhara
[9:42 AM] MochaKimono: She hasn't witnessed most of this or, apparently, heard of it from Graye x.x
[9:43 AM] MochaKimono: If you want anything to get fixed though she has to approach first
[9:43 AM] Dhara Sai: yeah, i get that.
[9:43 AM] Dhara Sai: we'll see what happens afte rthe lower dark
[9:44 AM] Dhara Sai: she feels lie pakani has really kept her at arms length and doesn't really trust him to care much about her, so I'm not sure what
[9:44 AM] Dhara Sai: what will happen
[9:45 AM] Dhara Sai: i don't want to metagame it.
[9:46 AM] MochaKimono: She also told him she regretted telling him personal things because he doesn't love her back and is with echo now. He doesn't think that's really going to change. She's... an ally and in some ways a superior, but not an equal or... someone who actually sees him as a friend, as far as he thinks
[9:47 AM] MochaKimono: And he feels like... Her holding on to the Zenta stuff to throw in his out of the blue... That Dhara is not interested in honest communication, she's just going to hold grudges and personal info to weaponize later
[9:48 AM] MochaKimono: Like what if he hadn't just told Ben about Zenta? She would have outed him as a victim -again-. It made her apologizing for telling Thia seem hollow
[9:48 AM] Dhara Sai: woooah no. that wasn't weaponized.
[9:48 AM] MochaKimono: He felt like it waaas
[9:48 AM] MochaKimono: Like his dirty laundry is something she can air out to win an argument now
[9:49 AM] Dhara Sai: but like... if she had talked about this in the moment, it ould have been hugely insensitive and inappropriate, but if she talks about it later it's holding on to grudges to weaponize them? So who can't express any opinnions?
[9:49 AM] MochaKimono: It wasn't insensitive or inappropriate?
[9:49 AM] MochaKimono: She did talk about it.
[9:50 AM] MochaKimono: Thia was the one that got on her case about it
[9:51 AM] Dhara Sai: exactly! So she wasn't going to say anything else
[9:51 AM] MochaKimono: Pakani listened to everyone's thoughts and also explained his complicated emotions to Dhara personally... And he said, if we have to kill her then the world would be better off...
[9:51 AM] MochaKimono: ....but she did
[9:51 AM] MochaKimono: Last night
[9:51 AM] Dhara Sai: just to point out that she can get over her own feelings on an issue to support a friend, and pakani won't do it for her
[9:52 AM] MochaKimono: It makes her apparent dropping of the subject feel more like a temporary remission of the subject thooough
[9:52 AM] MochaKimono: And that having her decline to carry on the discussion when it was fresh and relevant was to... either use it later, or coddle him
[9:53 AM] Dhara Sai: she took what thia said to heart!
[9:53 AM] MochaKimono: Oof
[9:54 AM] MochaKimono: Yeah... It was like... He has never uttered pharojs name... And she throws the Zenta debacle at him and... Makes what had initially felt like his first triumph against his old oppressors like a selfish mission of whim
[9:55 AM] MochaKimono: And in the back of his head he wonders if... She didn't just want to kill some slavers and used the mission as an excuse and "hoped he would just come around eventually"
[9:56 AM] Dhara Sai: not of whim, but the rest of the statement she would agree with. it wasn't a triumph, in her eyes. they snuck in, got the one thing that mattered, and slunk out wth their tail between their legs.
[9:56 AM] MochaKimono: (paranoid paranoid paranoid)
[9:56 AM] MochaKimono: Well yeah. Either that or everyone died
[9:57 AM] Dhara Sai: maybe, yeah. but it didn't feel triumphant to her at alllll. They actively participated in a slave economy instead of trying to dismantle it.
[9:58 AM] Dhara Sai: it was a defeat, for her
[9:59 AM] MochaKimono: That's where his neutrality comes Into  to play. He's not chaotic enough to buck a system on principle - ideal to dismantle, overall, but not feasible there without just losing everything and then some...
[9:59 AM] MochaKimono: And they did totally murder a bunch of slavers already together
[9:59 AM] Dhara Sai: small fish.
[9:59 AM] MochaKimono: Which makes her statement seem like a lie somewhere
[10:00 AM] Dhara Sai: what?
[10:00 AM] Dhara Sai: what statement? what lie?
[10:00 AM] MochaKimono: She says "at least this way no one else gets hurt or has to die". "Why didn't you let me kill this one"
[10:00 AM] MochaKimono: So either she does or doesn't want to kill slavers
[10:00 AM] Dhara Sai: because the stakes are very, very differnt
[10:01 AM] Dhara Sai: the balance of the trade off is totally reversed
[10:01 AM] MochaKimono: Dozens of children! To Drow no less
[10:01 AM] MochaKimono: Not quite small fish
[10:02 AM] Dhara Sai: in an economy of tens of thousands.
[10:04 AM] MochaKimono: Baby steps lol
[10:05 AM] MochaKimono: Thing is, she sees him as having not bent his code... But he has. For her. Specifically.
[10:05 AM] Dhara Sai: the dead hin
[10:05 AM] MochaKimono: And her asking to just keep bending feels like asking too much.
[10:05 AM] Dhara Sai: that's fair.
[10:05 AM] MochaKimono: He has never taken life and he would have slit their throats himself
[10:05 AM] Dhara Sai: but she didn't ask him to
[10:06 AM] MochaKimono: She asked for help. He went to help any way necessary. Being party and conspirator to capital crimes. He could hang because of her.
[10:06 AM] Dhara Sai: oh, but she didn't ask for help
[10:07 AM] Dhara Sai: she asked for healing
[10:07 AM] Dhara Sai: she expected nothing after that
[10:07 AM] Dhara Sai: she didn't even plan to go to the house.
[10:07 AM] Dhara Sai: who's idea was it to to go to the house? to hide the body? dhara didn't suggest any of that.
[10:07 AM] MochaKimono: A technicality... The situation was happening and he was all in already. And he was already lying to help cover for her when glass came around
[10:08 AM] MochaKimono: Exactly!
[10:08 AM] MochaKimono: Pakani took initiative to help the best way he figured
[10:08 AM] Dhara Sai: but like he didn't do that for her, she didn't even want to hide the thing. She wanted to get healed and walk away
[10:10 AM] MochaKimono: Well. Oh well... Now that he's involved in yet another criminal conspiracy... She ducks under bhaels wings for protection. Which again feels like a changed story since she's had a few stated reasons to stay in the townhouse and learning under Bhael now... He feels like she keeps changing her stories and stated opinions about things. Like... he pitched in and got her foot in the door and helped out a few spots
[10:11 AM] MochaKimono: He feels like... Being asked to continue bending morals about undeath especially... Like she doesn't see him as, or want him to be, an actually autonomous person. Again... tool like
[10:11 AM] Dhara Sai: she hasn't done anything illegal with bhael
[10:12 AM] MochaKimono: She said bhaels her best bet at keeping safe from paladins
[10:13 AM] Dhara Sai: and her story changes because her motivations change as she learns new things and her situatipon gets more perilous
[10:13 AM] MochaKimono: But anyway... He will not yield on his opinion on necromancy. If she tackles any conversation trying to set him up as a bad guy over that, uh, it's all over :s
[10:13 AM] MochaKimono: Yeah, I know
[10:13 AM] Dhara Sai: ed says pakani was asing him about it?
[10:13 AM] Dhara Sai: about coming back after he died?
[10:13 AM] MochaKimono: Mhm. Playing along.
[10:13 AM] Dhara Sai: i figured.
[10:14 AM] MochaKimono: He gets pulled into a necromancer's basement he is NOT going to spout chauntean creed in the lich's face. Its what he thought Dhara was doing too. Playing nice to get information
[10:16 AM] MochaKimono: Ben's affability and opposition to slavery are the only reasons Pakani doesn't hate him. No joke. Necromancy is a non negotiable for him. Even good undead shouldn't exist, they are a crime in being
[10:16 AM] MochaKimono: Only the non-making-undead necro spells are tolerable but even then
[10:17 AM] MochaKimono: Ben admitting to make more undead thralls....... Yeeahhhh
[10:18 AM] MochaKimono: A Kelemvorite even saying it's a viable option...
[10:18 AM] MochaKimono: Absolute blasphemy
[10:18 AM] Dhara Sai: he has IC reasons
[10:19 AM] Dhara Sai: but yeah
[10:19 AM] Dhara Sai: i get you
[10:23 AM] MochaKimono: Pakani cares for Dhara yeah, but... If she expects him to just ask how high when she says jump... To turn his back on ideals he inherited in secret form his ancestors, for any person, even a friend... He wouldn't see it as a request borne of friendship. He reveres the greater good... Friends remain in his good graces as long as they don't threaten it (what he perceives it as, at least). Let alone requesting him to lose the favor of his god and risk his own soul in return...
[10:23 AM] Dhara Sai: she's not asking him to participate, to be clear. just not lecture her about it.
[10:24 AM] MochaKimono: Even then.
[10:26 AM] MochaKimono: She would go right in the same category of people as every other undead he knows. Untrustworthy, held at arms length, monstrous. To allow it to pass without having tried to talk her out of it, as he did, would've been blasphemous and a disservice to her, him, and his faith.
[10:27 AM] Dhara Sai: that's fair. I like that, ooc
[10:27 AM] MochaKimono: He wouldn't even want her around Kavarsi again :(
[10:28 AM] MochaKimono: I don't imagine it'll happen unless you decide to let her die anyway and then Ben does the thing
[10:28 AM] MochaKimono: But yeah
[10:28 AM] Dhara Sai: oh, there's an idea
[10:28 AM] Dhara Sai: hm
[10:28 AM] Dhara Sai: maybe a little melodramatic
[10:28 AM] MochaKimono: Ifn you want her to lose a lot of friends
[10:28 AM] MochaKimono: Clover too
[10:28 AM] Dhara Sai: i mean i don't really want to play an undead
[10:28 AM] MochaKimono: And the other druids
[10:28 AM] MochaKimono: Heh
[10:28 AM] MochaKimono: Yeah
[10:29 AM] Dhara Sai: i like lyv's plot, ultimately, better.
[10:29 AM] MochaKimono: now does it actually cause total insanity after? or is it an unknown factor?
[10:29 AM] Dhara Sai: it's an unknown factor
[10:29 AM] Dhara Sai: there is some element of madness involved
[10:29 AM] MochaKimono: Like... Pakani'd be sad but he would help her do that if it's what she wanted
[10:30 AM] MochaKimono: sign a waiver first or somethin hah
[10:30 AM] Dhara Sai: and, problematically, she would be fulfilling the pact, not breaking it
[10:30 AM] MochaKimono: "no matter how much I plead, you must not stop... signed in triplicate"
[10:30 AM] MochaKimono: oh?
[10:30 AM] Dhara Sai: so she keeps all her power
[10:30 AM] Dhara Sai: and is no longer perfectly sane
[10:30 AM] MochaKimono: How would it be fulfilling it?
[10:31 AM] Dhara Sai: lyv's idea is that belial is all about suffering.
[10:31 AM] MochaKimono: ohhh, I see
[10:31 AM] MochaKimono: So she suffers to make up for what she isn't causing
[10:31 AM] Dhara Sai: so she's taking the siffering of the victims he requires of her, and taking it on personally
[10:31 AM] MochaKimono: Like... hmm...
[10:31 AM] MochaKimono: I almost imagine it like
[10:31 AM] MochaKimono: decades of torture condensed
[10:31 AM] MochaKimono: maybe for her, that much time would pass?
[10:31 AM] Dhara Sai: there's no way you get through that intact
[10:32 AM] Dhara Sai: ooh, like that twist
[10:32 AM] MochaKimono: we're so cruel lol
[10:33 AM] MochaKimono: I do want her and Pakani to be able to be friends... He wasn't ever really socialized to, uh, socialize
[10:33 AM] MochaKimono: and he constantly falls in the trap of treating everyone, on some level or another, as a master
[10:34 AM] MochaKimono: even with folks like Burmice and such... Instead of a favored master whose opinions he values, more like - a vain master to flatter and appease. Compartmentalized in a way to avoid showing fear to them
[10:34 AM] MochaKimono: and lacking the nuance to do the same for friends
[10:36 AM] Dhara Sai: but dhara's the insincere one :wink:
[10:36 AM] MochaKimono: and... not being used to being around equals who have totally different life stories. he's used to kin all more or less having the same deal as him. He doesn't "get" it when friends don't get him (without being told), and it... clearly often escapes him that his personal experiences and perspectives aren't universal
[10:37 AM] MochaKimono: he's trying to be sincere to those in his close circles... he doesn't flip the switch between "charm" and "honesty" well... it tends to be all one or the other >_>
[10:38 AM] MochaKimono: ...which, like, a LOT of this isn't even all that intentional on my part, it's stuff I realize more when I dig into him with talks like this
[10:38 AM] MochaKimono: charmless honesty, or dishonest charm XD
[10:41 AM] Dhara Sai: this rubs Dhara, then, because she also treats everyone like masters, but in a very angry, rebellious way. She fought and ran, which Pakani never did. So everytime she feels someone trying to control her, she flips. And Pakani's somewhat cold honesty feels controlling. She doesn't really accept outisde constraints on her behavior, unless they're self imposed. "I don't want to hurt anyone" is very different from an external instance on that. She really has no external morality (i mean, they don't have that in lolthite territory) and is driven by her internal ethics, which just happen to align good, for now.
[10:41 AM] MochaKimono: Heh
[10:41 AM] MochaKimono: Yeah
[10:42 AM] Dhara Sai: she's veeeeeeery flexible
[10:43 AM] Dhara Sai: so example: right now, bhael is helping her out. A LOT. And he isn't doing any diabolical planning that she's aware of. So she can't find a good reason to burn that brige, and is instead going to milk that relatinship for all it's worth until she doesn't feel like doing that anymore.
[10:43 AM] MochaKimono: Pakani's... at the very least, more forgiving of fiends than undead. ish
[10:44 AM] Dhara Sai: definitely shifting to chaotic neutral
[10:44 AM] Dhara Sai: which graye is encouraging
[10:44 AM] MochaKimono: heh
[10:44 AM] MochaKimono: Bhael's essentially Ashmadai
[10:44 AM] Dhara Sai: and dhara isn't. but she's willing to use an ashmadai to get what she wants
[10:44 AM] MochaKimono: Pakani plots/hopes for his ultimate destruction as a thing of evil
[10:45 AM] MochaKimono: Yeah