Nixon and Top Aides Discuss Pentagon Spies December 21 1971

An unjustly unknown, or little known, moment in American history and the Nixon administration. The President meets with his top aides to deal with an astonishing revelation: the Joint Chiefs of Staff, feeling excluded from policy making and oversight, have had their liaison to the National Security Council steal documents - sometimes from Henry Kissinger's briefcase - and pass them on to the Pentagon.

Audio quality is very, very poor, with many sections that must be labeled as "inaudible". The extraordinary efforts put into trying to rescue the erased eighteen and a half minutes of Watergate tape (which is too often misrepresented as a possible Rosetta stone for the scandal) must be contrasted with the utter neglect of tapes like these, where the audio could no doubt be improved immeasurably given the technology now available, a small achievement of great value to historians and well within the realm of feasibility. Thanks to the overwhelming indifference to the past, this important session is now abandoned to the apocalypse of noise.

Audio file of conversation can be found at (audio used here runs from 2:57-49:45):
http://nixontapeaudio.org/welander/639-030b.mp3

Clip of this conversation accompanied by transcript is on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn7juedeuGI

Transcript by Douglas Brinkley, Luke Nichter, James Rosen, Len Colodny, with some additions and edits by the uploader.

MITCHELL: Don't worry Mr. President, I'm not about to (inaudible) (laughs)

NIXON: (inaudible)

MITCHELL: (inaudible) Did you really burn the burn bag?

NIXON: The answer, to be honest with you is
(natsec withdrawn)

NIXON: (inaudible) son of a bitch (inaudible) What were the findings that they saw?

EHRLICHMAN: Well we have a payload of incriminatory and uh,

NIXON: Good.

EHRLICHMAN: It took a funny bounce...

NIXON: Good (inaudible) White House?

EHRLICHMAN: Yes, we found more than we thought we would.

NIXON: Good.

EHRLICHMAN: Jack Anderson ran columns actually four of them now including today-

NIXON: Uh-hum.

EHRLICHMAN: Excerpts of top-secret documents,

MITCHELL: -criminal actions,

EHRLICHMAN: And they're involved in CIA back channels (inaudible) raw notes of WSAG [Washington Special Actions Group] meetings and so on and so forth. And the first hour we were aware that we had broken the yeoman and through Dave Young, used to be General (inaudible) right hand man. He's now working for us in special projects. He's done a really superb job.

NIXON: The plumbers?

EHRLICHMAN: Yes. First rate job.

MITCHELL: Quite mature for a young fellow.

EHRLICHMAN: (inaudible)

MITCHELL: I said: quite mature for a young fellow.
(inaudible cross talk)
(laughter)

MITCHELL: (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: They were able to pinpoint that there was really only one place in the whole federal government where all of those documents were available.

NIXON: That's here.

EHRLICHMAN: And that was here in the Joint Chiefs of Staff liaison office of the National Security Council.

NIXON: Yeah.

EHRLICHMAN: And —

NIXON: Jesus Christ!

EHRLICHMAN: — there are only two men in that office. One's an admiral [Robert Welander] and one's a yeoman [Radford]. So they began interviewing both of them, and they polygraphed both of them. And the yeoman, obviously, was the guy. He knew Jack Anderson. He had had dinner with Jack Anderson the previous Sunday. His wife and Jack Anderson's wife were Mormons and friends, and were doing things together, and so on and so forth. He had been stationed in India for two years. He felt strongly about the India-Pakistan thing. So there was motive, opportunity, and access. The whole thing.

NIXON: Can I ask how in the name of God do we have a yeoman having access to documents of that type?

EHRLICHMAN: Well, he's the key man. He is the, he's the fellow that types all the memcons, the memoranda of conversations, who files all the -

NIXON: Does Henry know him?

EHRLICHMAN: Everybody knows him.

MITCHELL: He's traveled with Henry.

EHRLICHMAN: He traveled with Haig.

NIXON:  Did he go to China?

EHRLICHMAN: No, but he went to -

NIXON: Indonesia?

EHRLICHMAN: —Indonesia with, I mean Vietnam with Haig. And did all Haig's dealings with [unclear]. So he's been right at the crux of this thing. Now, he works for this Admiral Welander, who is the Joint Chiefs of Staff liaison man. Before him, there was a captain, a navy captain [Rembrandt Robinson] in the office.

NIXON: I remember him.

EHRLICHMAN: This fellow, while being polygraphed, was asked, among other things, if he had ever -

NIXON: You did that with the polygraph?

EHRLICHMAN: Oh, yes. Yes, indeed. And he has refused to admit turning any documents over to Anderson. But he has admitted something else. That he's had access, so on and so forth, all the way through.

NIXON: Yes.

EHRLICHMAN: He realizes he may be the only man in government other than the admiral [Welander] to have access to all these documents. He understands the circumstance. Says, "It's obviously a good, tight circumstantial case. I'll answer any questions that you have."

NIXON: He strikes me as very intelligent.

EHRLICHMAN: Very, very intelligent.

NIXON: Right. Incidentally, is he Jewish?

EHRLICHMAN: No. He's Mormon. And Anglo Saxon. But, in the course of the polygraph, he was asked whether or not he had ever stolen any documents. And —

NIXON: Stolen? The fact is, he leaks.

EHRLICHMAN: Sure.

NIXON: He had to, to give them to Anderson.

MITCHELL: Taken them out of the security -

EHRLICHMAN: (unaudible) They put the question to him, as if they were assuming that he was [unclear]. They got a big flip on the polygraph. So then they doubled back. And one of the techniques is to say, "Now, I'm very curious how you probably studied how to beat a polygraph." Because he's an expert. (inaudible) He's schooled, he's trained, he's spent his whole life reading the character and actions of the (inaudible)

MITCHELL: He gets immersed in the subject matter.

EHRLICHMAN: No (inaudible) The investigator, the lawyer (inaudible)

NIXON: (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: The interrogator then doubles back. Says, "Now you got a bad reading on your polygraph on this. What other documents?" And the guy [Radford] broke down and cried. And then he said, "I can't answer that question without the permission of Admiral Welander. So David Young called me, and he called the admiral [Welander]. And he said, "Would you talk to this fellow Radford?" I want you to tell him to tell everything he knows." To the admiral: "Do you have any problem with the guy?" He said, "Hell, no." So then it all came out. He has, under the express directions of Captain [Rembrandt] Robinson, and under the implied approval of his successor, the admiral [Welander], he has systematically stolen documents out of Henry's briefcase, Haig's briefcase, people's desks, anyplace and everyplace in the NSC apparatus that he can lay his hands on. And has duplicated them and turned them over to the Joint Chiefs, through his boss. This has been going on now for about thirteen months.

NIXON: Well, has that been a Joint Chiefs' practice for a long time?

EHRLICHMAN: Apparently so.

NIXON: Don’t expect anything out of these (inaudible) long time itself! Is Henry aware of this?

EHRLICHMAN: I'm sure not.

NIXON: Is Haig aware of this?

EHRLICHMAN: I don’t know. I suspect Haig may be aware, by some kind of back-channel basis. Because after this came out and it was reduced to writing by the interrogator, uh Young was advised by the interrogator that he was having some trouble with his superiors, and that he was going to have to excise his report to leave that material out (inaudible) Stewart, the interrogator, the investigator over at the Pentagon.

MITCHELL: (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: And we have an unexpurgated version of the report. We do have the black binder, signed by the interrogator. But, you ask if Haig knows; I don’t know if Haig knows. But, uh if this thing runs true to form, undoubtedly, his radar has picked this up by now. But this guy admits to taking and duplicating and turning over to the Joint Chiefs’ liaison man not only—

NIXON: (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: It's Henry's notes, it's inside the (inaudible)

HALDEMAN: [Asks about yeoman Radford’s responses under interrogation in a way that suggests HRH misunderstood much of the foregoing; words to the effect of “So Radford is or is not saying he turned over the documents?” “No he is—oh, yes, oh, yes,”]

EHRLICHMAN: [answers, in the manner of “on the contrary”]

NIXON: For thirteen months.

EHRLICHMAN: Thirteen months. Contingency plans, political agreements, troop movements, behind-the-scenes topics, security conferences (inaudible), et cetera. (inaudible)

NIXON: (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: It would have been Thursday or Friday. before Friday, I think this came up Friday.

NIXON: I thought that we were going (inaudible) Thursday.

EHRLICHMAN: Well this is Tuesday.

NIXON: Oh, I'm sorry.

EHRLICHMAN: Well, we were working all last week on this.

EHRLICHMAN: Now. Now, as soon as (inaudible) advised me of this, I saw the Defense Department interrogation and sent Dave over to talk to John, and uh he and I talked today. It was his feeling that you ought to know about this before we did anything further on this case at all. We had been working on this with the idea that perhaps they can link him to the Jack Anderson—that had been our original goal. Then it developed, of course, that this guy, this, this sailor was a veritable storehouse of information of all kinds and that he reads and retains everything that comes through. He testified here that he knew about Henry’s secret negotiations with the North Vietnamese.

NIXON: Oh!

EHRLICHMAN: And uh, uh it came up when he wrote a response to a project. Now, this guy, obviously, could be court-martialed or he is given immunity and the whistle in his hands, or something to that. But, we approached him, he's been a terrific friend. He put in for a transfer out of here, which was denied, because he was a key man. Now, key to whom? Key to obviously (inaudible) the military.

NIXON: Who denied it?

EHRLICHMAN: His military (inaudible). This again (inaudible)

HALDEMAN: This would indicate that he's lying when he says he did not give us up (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: Oh yes, oh yes.
(inaudible crosstalk)

MITCHELL: (inaudible) How, how very much does he-

EHRLICHMAN: He, he has enough to (inaudible) NSA.
(natsec withdrawn)

NIXON: Have you talked to the council [National Security Council] about this (inaudible)?

MITCHELL: (inaudible)
(inaudible crosstalk)

EHRLICHMAN: (inaudible) I'm sure not. (inaudible)
(inaudible crosstalk)

EHRLICHMAN: Oh yes, that (inaudible) is the one that called me up first (inaudible) and said you guys are going to have to handle this.
(inaudible crosstalk)

HALDEMAN: Henry's aware (inaudible)?

EHRLICHMAN: Yes, Henry's there (inaudible)

NIXON: (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: No no (inaudible) Henry (inaudible) and I support (inaudible)

NIXON: But that he is (inaudible) there's a hole inside the second floor.

HALDEMAN: (inaudible) this explains how the whole (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: I told Henry that his (inaudible) were compromised. I told him we thought we knew-

HALDEMAN: Does this unit sit in (inaudible)?

EHRLICHMAN: No, he didn't have to (inaudible) taking verbatim notes on what everybody says, listening-

MITCHELL: Written or (inaudible) material here?

EHRLICHMAN: It is all written up, in memo form. And he has access to everything out of State, the Pentagon, NSC, everyplace. And he just Xeroxed it and turned it over to Anderson. There's no question. Now, as I say, we started off on Anderson.

NIXON: Right.

EHRLICHMAN: We were slowed down by the fact that this guy is obviously very hot. Then we got this Joint Chiefs angle, and so we've shut the whole thing down. The guy is obviously cooperative. We've had him standing by at home for further interrogation. We then, I think we have him tapped. Do we have him tapped?

MITCHELL: No, you don't.

EHRLICHMAN: We don't have him tapped.

HALDEMAN: Can't you out him under some kind of arrest?

EHRLICHMAN: Well, we could —

MITCHELL: We could, but that's not the point.

EHRLICHMAN: This is a little bit like trying to catch a skunk. And, you may get some on you if you [unclear].

NIXON: You're right. Exactly right about this point.

EHRLICHMAN: The Joint Chiefs' liaison office is over here in the EOB, and it's right in the NSC complex. It's very nice. It's Captain Robinson, who, Dave got to know on the first day Dave came to work, and said: "Now, Dave, we're really your eyes and ears in the Pentagon. You can trust me entirely. My job is to get you fellows information out of the Pentagon." It turned out to be, in effect, a reverse agent. Working for the Pentagon inside here. That office, it seems to me, constitutes a clear and present danger to the censure here that might exist in the NSC. John has suggestions as to how to proceed in this that I think are very sound, and I'll leave him to explain them.

MITCHELL: Well, Mr. President, I'd like to point out that this thing goes right into the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Undoubtedly they'd know if it has participated in this ill-gotten gains they received.

NIXON: Sure.

MITCHELL: The first thing you're —

NIXON: Prosecuting is a possibility for the Joint Chiefs. Now, I have to think about it.

MITCHELL: I agree with you, but we have to take it from there as to what this would lead to if you pursued it by way of prosecution of Moorer, or, even a public confrontation. You would have the Joint Chiefs aligned on that side directly against you. And the, what has been done has been done. I think that the important thing is to paper this thing over.

NIXON: Yeah.

MITCHELL: This way, first of all, get that liaison office the hell out of NSC and put it back at the Pentagon.

NIXON: Correct.

MITCHELL: Secondly, to get a security officer into the NSC.

NIXON: Correct. But what about Henry Kissinger?

MITCHELL: Well, I think that whoever goes in there is going to have to ride herd not only on the rest of the staff, but on Henry. It turns out that one of these most important memorandums here that Henry had was lost, and that somebody just handed him another copy. They shouldn't have even had another copy. This came out in the papers. Now, with respect to the Joint Chiefs, you have to get, in my opinion, this guy Admiral Welander the hell out of there, by way of a signal. They can transfer him to Kokomo or Indiana, or anywhere we want to have him, along, of course, with this yeoman. And I think the best thing to do is for me, and we'll leave Laird [Mel Laird, Secretary of Defense] aside for a moment, but for me to sit down with Tom Moorer, and point out what this game is that's been going on.

NIXON: Mm-hmmm.

MITCHELL: And it's the end of the road. The liaison is going back to the Pentagon. If they want him, they can call him over here. And there's a security quotient going into the NSC, and this ball game's over with. Now, ah, this would, having exacerbated—discipline this admiral that’s been involved in this—I don’t know what should do about Robinson, if anything. Where is he off to? Is he (inaudible), is he—

EHRLICHMAN: (inaudible) he briefed us all on Cambodia.(inaudible)

NIXON: Well-

(natsec withdrawn)

EHRLICHMAN: It looks very grim (inaudible)...

NIXON: (inaudible) these leaks (inaudible)...

EHRLICHMAN: Welander knew that he knew Jack Anderson.

NIXON: Who?

EHRLICHMAN: Both Robinson and Welander knew that he had a social relationship with Jack Anderson.

HALDEMAN: It’s almost as if they, they meant to do something.

NIXON: (Inaudible; question asked) That’s what I know. But they ought to (inaudible) God (inaudible) that was dishonest.

MITCHELL: I know (inaudible)...suggesting he put out the whole story of the fleet that run through the Straits of Malacca, up into the Bay of Bengal.

HALDEMAN: This guy is (inaudible)!

MITCHELL: This yeoman served in India, he married his wife in India (inaudible).
[Inaudible crosstalk, followed by a brief break in the original recording]

NIXON: So, he’s pro-Indians.
[Inaudible crosstalk]

MITCHELL: Well, in addition to that, his association with Jack Anderson. Uh, Anderson would obviously know what he was doing, and how he was working, and just pushed things until he got it.

NIXON: Let me ask this first. Is Anderson guilty of anything?

MITCHELL: Yes.

NIXON: What?

MITCHELL: He's guilty of possession of these documents.

NIXON: Can you really prosecute, let's say, the person that publishes them?

MITCHELL: You can prosecute 'em not under the publication. But for the possession of them. I don't know if we need to find that. But if you start opening up —

NIXON: [unclear]

MITCHELL: If you start opening up on Anderson, assuming you did make the case, turned this guy [Radford], give him immunity and so forth, then Lord knows where this is going to lead to.

NIXON: Yeah.

MITCHELL: Because he's [Radford] going to come out with a story, "Well, I gave it; this business with Admiral Welander, "and he's had all of this; and the Joint Chiefs and all the rest of it."

NIXON: Well, it blows the Joint Chiefs right out of the Pentagon, through the roof of the Pentagon, right?

EHRLICHMAN: It ruptures your relationship.

MITCHELL: What you do really is—and there’s some breaking news.

NIXON: I am afraid Haig must have known about this operation.

EHRLICHMAN: I'm not sure if Haig was in on the operation.

NIXON: It seems unlikely he wouldn’t, he wouldn’t have known.

EHRLICHMAN: I'm not sure of that. You see, Haig took this guy to Vietnam with him, consulted with him, reposed confidence in him. And I think they could have been in it. But I suspect that the stakes—this whole practice, coupled with each [of] the facts displayed, we got a problem, be advised. (inaudible) that would be my thinking. But I don’t know that. (inaudible). But I don’t know that. I’m just—because there are—(inaudible)...

NIXON: (inaudible)
(inaudible crosstalk)

MITCHELL: He was at Normandy, you know, and so was Jack Anderson.
(inaudible)

NIXON: (inaudible) Anderson (inaudible)...
(inaudible crosstalk)

NIXON: ...focus on how you, how you see your name on the list under Tom Moorer. What are you going to do about this man?

MITCHELL: (inaudible) also someplace.

NIXON: (inaudible)?

MITCHELL: Yup (inaudible). You wouldn’t (inaudible)...You can’t, without breaking this thing up. ‘Cause when the pressure gets on him, it’s going to go right up through the channels.

EHRLICHMAN: I lost more sleep than —

NIXON: Yeah.

EHRLICHMAN: [unclear] on what to do with this guy. And I have finally come to the conclusion that you can't touch him. All right? And you can't touch him because it hurts our chief executive (inaudible)...

NIXON: (inaudible) military type (inaudible) we cannot have it. And also we can't have (inaudible) around. Right now, we don't know- (inaudible) You gotta shake Henry right by the Goddamn...through his eye teeth. He has too many (inaudible) happens. You know, Bob. Henry always (inaudible) They do some things. But (inaudible) They feed him stuff.

HALDEMAN: They plant propaganda?

NIXON: Yup. But, the secret (inaudible) the sonofabitch. (inaudible) I mean, really (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: Dave is going back now, all through Henry's files, of the last thirteen months. To determine. Whether or not there's any relationship and if the process is still going on.

HALDEMAN: This has been going on for more than thirteen months. (inaudible) Before that? (inaudible) New guy?

MITCHELL: Isn't that when he came back from India?

EHRLICHMAN: I don't know the relationship there, it wasn't long after he came back. But, uh, the other question is what you (inaudible) over to an embassy or what the hell to do with him.

MITCHELL: What, what transfer did he put in for?

EHRLICHMAN: He put in an undetermined.

MITCHELL: Undetermined.
(natsec)

EHRLICHMAN: Now, I don’t know what you do with this bird. [Pause] But, uh, my inclination is direct them that you not do anything with a punitive nature to it, or appear to fire them all.

NIXON: I agree.

EHRLICHMAN: (inaudible)

NIXON: I think we’ve got to, uh, uh (pause) find some (inaudible)secondly...I don’t understand, either, the—you said there was some curiousness as to how even Haig was—he had signed off on this. I mean, I don’t, I don’t think the leaks are—

EHRLICHMAN: I understand.

NIXON: (inaudible) the stuff with the Chinese.

HALDEMAN: I don’t know how he knew that.

MITCHELL: I don’t know how you really find out. Because Haig had had most of the information. They know, though. But it wouldn't relate, uh—

NIXON: John. (inaudible) But Jesus, I mean, taking stuff out of Henry’s briefcase! I’m sure Haig would never approve of that.

MITCHELL: I would agree with that.

HALDEMAN: (inaudible) he picks up Haig’s briefcase—

EHRLICHMAN: (inaudible) briefcase (inaudible) all these people. These are all the same people.

NIXON: (inaudible) on the NSC staff? Does he know Sonnenfeldt?

EHRLICHMAN: Says he has stolen from Kissinger, Kissinger’s secretaries, Al Haig, John Negroponte, Dick Smyser, Carl Kennedy, Jack Darcy, (inaudible) Murphy (inaudible)...

NIXON: But I think we’ve got to get started...on the strategy you suggested (inaudible)...

MITCHELL: What about Laird?

EHRLICHMAN: Now Laird knows about the yeoman. He called me and said that he knew (inaudible—some stealing?) was going on. He was going to see if (inaudible)...

NIXON: Laird is another of these bunch (inaudible—that’s no good?).

EHRLICHMAN: You know that General Pursley (inaudible)

NIXON: General Pursley...he’s a Laird friend, so he’s not loyal.

NIXON: If anything, the fellow is of the mindset, (inaudible) you see, (inaudible) Joint Chiefs. In any event. But my point is (inaudible) Anderson (inaudible)

UNIDENTIFIED: He certainly had access.

NIXON: He had access and (inaudible)

MITCHELL: (inaudible) from where?

EHRLICHMAN: Now I don’t know about Don Hughes’s [military assistant to the president] situation. But Don’s the only guy to whom I can turn to find out how much Haig really knows. He’s in a position to find out that stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED: Don’s position is central, you know (inaudible)...

EHRLICHMAN: And he does have some.

NIXON: He does not.

HALDEMAN: He does, sir.

MITCHELL: The, then—
(inaudible crosstalk)

MITCHELL: —you’d have to belong to the club to find who’s—

EHRLICHMAN: (inaudible)

NIXON: (inaudible)

(natsec withdrawn)

HALDEMAN: Now Zumwalt was involved in this...
(inaudible crosstalk)

EHRLICHMAN: My hunch is this is basically a Navy operation. You got an admiral, a yeoman, Moorer, Zumwalt..., Zumwalt was the recipient of some documents...

NIXON: I think you ought to press that when you talk to Moorer.

EHRLICHMAN: I think you ought to press that when you talk to Moorer. [Pause] You don’t agree?

MITCHELL: No. Because this will be a confrontation that I don’t think you need.

NIXON: Well, all right. But I want to confront it tough as hell. Know what I mean? Goddamn (inaudible) particularly, particularly when Moorer (inaudible)I want to torpedo Moorer.

NIXON: (inaudible)

NIXON: See my point?

MITCHELL: I do.

MITCHELL: I would-

NIXON: Anyway, the Joint Chiefs. You see, the minute The Joint Chiefs were aware that (inaudible), they had an obligation to say (inaudible). But the minute they saw that he was getting stuff from Kissinger's briefcase, then they should have said (inaudible) For Christ's sakes, (inaudible) I mean, if I took something out of your briefcase, I'd be (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: It didn't happen that way, of course. Here's how it is. [reads from interrogation report] "The subject stated that this practice began with Admiral Rose, who instructed him to keep his eyes open, so he (inaudible) might furnish Admiral Rose with whatever information might support the liaison's (inaudible) to the Admiral. Keep your eyes open in the EOB and (inaudible) this practice under the supervision of Admiral Welander. He stated that Admiral Welander never directly instructed him to take documents, however, he accepted them whenever they were provided by the subject. (inaudible) the person from whom she stole the classified material (inaudible)

[inaudible crosstalk]

MITCHELL: He says that he has only taken stuff home—how would that come out? (inaudible crosstalk) That came out all right on the polygraph?

EHRLICHMAN: I think you have to assume that if he had the stuff, he doesn't possess it. Because he's smart enough to know that with an interrogation going on, (inaudible)

MITCHELL: (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: (inaudible)

NIXON: Is that smart?

EHRLICHMAN: Yes, he’s very bright and very precise, and—

MITCHELL: He handled the interrogation, from what I hear—I haven’t read the transcript. But he handled it just the way a pro— conman would have.

EHRLICHMAN: Yeah, yeah.

MITCHELL: Right to the point where he recognized that this is all circumstantial, and no, I didn't do it.

EHRLICHMAN: He answered the questions (inaudible)...Of course, he'd been under interrogation for three days straight.

MITCHELL: Well, he had a great little ballgame (inaudible) whether he’s involved any other people in this.

EHRLICHMAN: And he realizes how he’s opened up the door to this whole joint Chiefs thing. Admiral Welander was asked about this. He refuses to respond to the interrogator’s questions, saying that he had a personal and confidential relationship with Henry Kissinger and Al Haig, including responding to those kinds of questions.

NIXON: The other thing that..... has to be reckoned with. Very hard. .......Kissinger and Haig...... They must be told that I know the whole thing. They must be told that on any subject [pounding desk], don’t let them get off the hook, either of them, or—God, let them think, let them think, that the son-of-a-bitch broke down and told all the other stuff, too. Let them ......blaming the wrong people. I'll grind them right in. And I want everybody to think what they want. Do you understand?

MITCHELL: And John’ll get a candidate for this security officer in the NSC.

EHRLICHMAN: No. No. (inaudible—Chuck Traynor?), who set up our security operation in (inaudible—Key Biscayne?), Colonel in the Air Force.
(natsec withdrawn)

EHRLICHMAN: And if [Traynor?] had any qualms about turning fink on his staff, he’d have told me right then. He went to work, and he got the good on this guy. And uh, we got rid of him. And he is there, in Russia over there, and (inaudible) office of the Secretary (inaudible)

(natsec withdrawn)

HALDEMAN: Traynor is a Air Force Officer who was here in the White House when we came in, as the President’s man to look at all the...over all to see who was screwing who.

MITCHELL: Wasn’t he certified to by Don Hughes?

EHRLICHMAN: He’s fine for me.
(inaudible crosstalk)

NIXON: (inaudible) I’m worried that if it got to Haig, Haig would tell Henry (inaudible)...Why not?

MITCHELL: It’s not going to hurt anyone.

EHRLICHMAN: See if we can put a tap and surveillance on the guy.

MITCHELL: We could do that...

NIXON: I would do that...

MITCHELL: Is he confined to his home?

EHRLICHMAN: No.

MITCHELL:  He's not. He can do his military stuff (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: He's virtually confined because he (inaudible)...if he’s smart enough to tap, then he would know he’d be tapped...

[inaudible crosstalk]

MITCHELL: And you may have incoming calls to indicate who’s interested in the problem.

NIXON: You might get something you never know if the guy's smart, his wife may be dumb enough to make calls and....you might learn a few things, I get a feeling we need to find out...I want to see what bubbles up at the NSC...

MITCHELL: Well, I’d be—you don’t think that- you have nothing to lose by doing so, but I think that Welander and Robinson are the ones that ought to have action taken against them, so that the word gets out and that Moorer would be charged with doing this.

NIXON: If that remains to be done, then why don’t you do that?

MITCHELL: Well, the minute you do that, the ballgame’s over, and then you finally go to the security of the NSC, and that’s the end of it.
[Pause]

NIXON: See if we can't start our own security firm. Henry is not a good security risk.

MITCHELL: He’s not a good security risk, the way he runs that office.

EHRLICHMAN: Well, there are all kinds of odd bounces to this thing now. There’s a relief man who takes...place. One of the questions they asked him was whether or not he knew Jack Anderson. No. Do you know anyone who knows Jack Anderson. No. So that was the end of that. We came back over here to see Admiral Welander, and said sir I need to report to you that the yeoman knows Jack Anderson...

NIXON: (inaudible)

MITCHELL: Well, it's his lawyer who could serve as sort of uh...You can expect that some of them that are close to these officers—(inaudible)

NIXON: (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: Well, they're very serious about that (inaudible)

NIXON: Very serious?

UNIDENTIFIED: (inaudible)

MITCHELL: Well, you know—

UNIDENTIFIED: (inaudible)

MITCHELL: Well, not until you’re ready to move against Welander and whoever else. I think that’s the problem, because the important thing, in my way of thinking, is to stop this Joint chiefs of Staff operation, and to buck up the security over here.

NIXON: Right.

MITCHELL: And if, if I had to order Welander out to Kokomo or wherever it is — what you do with Robinson, I don’t know — then they have taken recognition of this, and they in effect are admitting to this operation.

NIXON: All right. (inaudible) day of Christmas.

MITCHELL: That’s great. I’ll be out at the Fiesta Bowl in Phoenix.
(inaudible crosstalk)

MITCHELL: No, I’m inclined to think that there may be a—

NIXON: (inaudible) catching the bastards, and let the poor bastards (inaudible) in jail over Christmas, and then crack them (inaudible)...
(inaudible crosstalk)

EHRLICHMAN: ...interrogations have been going on... He knows that this guy...he knows he knows... Welander was asked about it, and do you know that this man, it is true it turned out he was one of you. And he (Welander) says, "I have a confidential relationship with Haig and Kissinger."

MITCHELL: That’s, that’s where he fucked it up.

NIXON: Well... just knock that out of the ballpark, stop that relationship.

MITCHELL: Well, they, Robinson and Welander—is that his name? These are the two culprits involved, when you go back to the way the scenario reads, where this yeoman was told to keep his eyes open and get whatever he could. They are the ones responsible for this. And the question is—two questions. Number one: Where do you put Laird in this? Do you consult with Laird, and tell him what you’re going to do-

NIXON: No.

MITCHELL: —or how do you handle Laird? Or do you just go to Moorer on your behalf?

NIXON: Go to Moorer on my behalf. You handle this directly with Moorer. Don’t tell Laird. Laird will go off and screw around and then that’s one way it will blow. (inaudible) and I’d consult Henry, see what we do (inaudible)...about what should be done.

MITCHELL: Now what do you want done with Welander?

NIXON: Huh?

MITCHELL: What do you want done with Welander—other than kick him out of the EOB? You want him transferred out?

NIXON: Transfer him the hell out of here. (inaudible)

MITCHELL: I agree with you.
(inaudible crosstalk)

NIXON: ...The main thing is that, the main thing is that, it’s to me that reason that, He—had—to—know—that he was getting stuff from Kissinger’s and Haig’s briefcase. That—is—wrong! Understand? I’m just saying that’s wrong. Do you agree?

MITCHELL: No question about it, that the whole concept of having this yeoman get into this affair and start to get this stuff into the Joint Chiefs of Staff is just like coming in and robbing your desk.

NIXON: Yes it is.

EHRLICHMAN: The thing that disgusts me about this is, if they’ll do that—

NIXON: Yeah.

EHRLICHMAN: —what else are they doing? You know, military drivers, military gals, military everything around here.

NIXON: Yup, yup, yup, yup.

EHRLICHMAN: Christ. We’ve all used this office. (inaudible) If you called one of these (inaudible) into your office (inaudible) White House mess (inaudible) go back to the Johnson days they were (inaudible)...

EHRLICHMAN: (inaudible) but it's just (inaudible) whole apparatus (inaudible)

MITCHELL: When do you want me to start on Kissinger?

NIXON: Let him worry.

MITCHELL: I'm not worried.

MITCHELL: I think it might be interesting to see what Al does. (inaudible)
(inaudible crosstalk)

MITCHELL: Let me, let me—

NIXON: Let me just say: there is a federal offense of the highest order here. And you have reported it to the President. The President says he can’t discuss it. And the Attorney General...

MITCHELL: What about if I interrogate (inaudible) on this point?

NIXON: What's that?

MITCHELL: Suppose I interrogate Welander on this point?

EHRLICHMAN: Well, (inaudible) I, I think that’s indicated...What about telling Henry that Welander refused to co-operate, on the grounds of his personal relationship with Henry. That Henry is to call Welander and dissolve that relationship, and free Welander to testify.

MITCHELL: That’s it exactly.

NIXON: Why don’t you tell Henry that...

MITCHELL: ...Tell Henry if he gets that much, it’ll wreck ‘em. And then...

HALDEMAN: 'Cuz they know you're investigating. Just say there's a block in the investigation-

NIXON: I don’t want Henry to know, though that this yeoman has put it on to Anderson yet...Don’t you agree?

EHRLICHMAN: I just think... I am sure Haig has told Henry that much.

NIXON: Does Haig know all this? Hold on...my point...does Haig know he stole from his briefcase?...
(inaudible crosstalk)

MITCHELL: John, what about—we don’t know what the hell that security officer over there [at the Pentagon] is doing, other than excising the record. Why not have Mardian come over and interrogate Welander?

EHRLICHMAN: Well, (inaudible)...

MITCHELL: Alright. Good. And when you get through with him...go back to the yeoman.
[Inaudible crosstalk; discussion of the Alger Hiss case]

NIXON: “To the best of my recollection, I can’t recall. To the best of my recollection, I do not remember. To the best of my recollection I do not remember...to critical answers.”

EHRLICHMAN: (inaudible) He was very precise about the things he didn’t have. That he went certain places, and did certain things, certain circumstances, this guy was trained. He can tell you exactly the sequence in which he Xeroxed things...He has total recall.

MITCHELL: I think this Welander thing is good because it is going to get right into the middle of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

EHRLICHMAN: (inaudible)

EHRLICHMAN: ...But I think what we ought to do here is have Henry call Welander...(inaudible)—

NIXON: Yeah.

EHRLICHMAN: -and say, “There’s nothing in our relationship that precludes you from answering any questions that are put to you.” (inaudible)

NIXON: That's right. (inaudible) I don’t want Henry to raise this subject with me—or he’s out... and get a handle on Moorer?

MITCHELL: Well, let’s—let’s let this sit a while, as you suggest, and then let’s take him on.

EHRLICHMAN: I’ll get Welander tomorrow.

NIXON: Good...I wish I could sit in on it myself... [Inaudible for about twenty seconds; end of conversation]