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  1. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 14 03:00:00 2013
  2. Feb 14 09:39:44 <ShadowX> Q: Is it possible to force n900 to keep showing pictures gotten from different IMs even if the account is disabled? I mean ...i'm adding my gtalk just to get some pictures for few friends. But if I disable the account , the pictures are not shown anymore. So my Q is , is there a way to force showing pics of disabled accounts?
  3. Feb 14 10:05:13 <iluminator105> how do revert back to stock camera app?
  4. Feb 14 10:06:02 <chem|st> iluminator105: what do you mean?
  5. Feb 14 10:06:47 <chem|st> install by hand again, without the other repo active?!
  6. Feb 14 10:10:37 <iluminator105> i am a commandline guy i dont wanna do thats why i asked
  7. Feb 14 11:06:30 <amospalla> is there a way to use instant messaging enabled/disabled account profiles, without contact lists get messed up?
  8. Feb 14 11:52:42 <raandoom> amospalla, why do you need it? account can be enabled and always offline :) and account contacts dont get messed up.
  9. Feb 14 11:55:24 <amospalla> raandoom: for example, Mary has a jabber account, that I have inside his contact info, when I enable/disable accounts, his jabber account gets outside of his contact entry
  10. Feb 14 11:56:31 <amospalla> I like to disable accounts sometimes, but I don't because I have to merge contacts again
  11. Feb 14 11:57:20 <amospalla> somebody told me here that it works that way, and I can not do anything, but wanted to ask again, it's strange to me it can not work in a more friendly way
  12. Feb 14 11:57:53 <raandoom> wow. i didnt know about that
  13. Feb 14 11:59:34 <raandoom> i usually dont merge contacts
  14. Feb 14 12:00:02 <amospalla> I like to have all info about "Mary" on a single contact
  15. Feb 14 12:12:14 <kerio> merging contacts is the shit
  16. Feb 14 12:13:49 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: ping
  17. Feb 14 12:15:57 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: pong
  18. Feb 14 12:16:27 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: <3
  19. Feb 14 12:17:05 <kerio> feeling slightly better? or still monumentally pissed off?
  20. Feb 14 12:26:27 <teotwaki> wrong question
  21. Feb 14 12:26:31 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
  22. Feb 14 12:30:17 <DocScrutinizer05> MT took initiative to drive our migration adventure and I'm helping as much as I can. I'm just ignoring my feeling of pissed-off for now, until the issue again gets topic #1. Actually right now our problems are not with approving volunteers and Rob's/HiFo's funny ideas how to manage a tech staff
  23. Feb 14 12:36:50 <ShadowJK> seems HiFo is better at pissing of community than Nokia? ;)
  24. Feb 14 12:38:22 <DocScrutinizer05> a lot better
  25. Feb 14 13:00:02 <kerio> meh, it seems about the same, it's just our expectation that's different
  26. Feb 14 13:14:22 <Pali> did you saw this? http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames
  27. Feb 14 13:14:37 * teotwaki waves at Jaffa
  28. Feb 14 13:14:46 <Jaffa> 'lo
  29. Feb 14 13:15:02 <Jaffa> teotwaki: Thought about jumping into your Twitter conversation yesterday, but decided better of it
  30. Feb 14 13:15:20 <teotwaki> Jaffa: yeah, got a few DMs afterwards.
  31. Feb 14 13:15:26 <Pali> so new udev will rename eth0 to some enp5s0?
  32. Feb 14 13:16:18 <Jaffa> teotwaki: FWIW, I'm with you. He's often worried about follower numbers or people downvoting things on Planet
  33. Feb 14 13:19:41 <kerio> Pali: hahaha systemd hahaha
  34. Feb 14 13:19:53 <Pali> part of systemd is udev
  35. Feb 14 13:20:06 <Pali> and as I understand this is implemented in udev
  36. Feb 14 13:20:15 <Pali> I want working udev!!
  37. Feb 14 13:20:42 <Pali> enp2s0 or enx78e7d1ea46da as interface name is nonsense
  38. Feb 14 13:20:43 <kerio> yeah, the udev takeover is some major bullshit
  39. Feb 14 13:20:55 <Pali> eth0 is normal name
  40. Feb 14 13:21:05 <Pali> also wlanX
  41. Feb 14 13:22:57 <Pali> ok, somebody should create posters "Wanted: Lennart dead or alive"
  42. Feb 14 13:24:42 <jaska> s/or alive//
  43. Feb 14 13:29:15 <DocScrutinizer05> +10000
  44. Feb 14 13:29:56 <DocScrutinizer05> is there already a website lennart-no-thanks.net ?
  45. Feb 14 13:30:38 <Pali> see prefix names: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/src/udev/udev-builtin-net_id.c#n30
  46. Feb 14 13:30:41 <DocScrutinizer05> or maybe stop-lennart.org
  47. Feb 14 13:30:50 <Pali> en* = ethernet
  48. Feb 14 13:30:52 <Pali> WTF?
  49. Feb 14 13:31:09 <Pali> we had always eth* for ethernet
  50. Feb 14 13:32:12 <Pali> now this enought
  51. Feb 14 13:32:36 <DocScrutinizer05> SPC TERMINAL DATION INOUT ALPHIC DIM(,) TFU MAX FORWARD CONTROL (ALL);
  52. Feb 14 13:33:28 <Pali> Why somebody accepted this patch wich breaking name conventions for network interfaces???
  53. Feb 14 13:33:53 <Pali> Finally kernel drivers started using eth* for ethernet and wlan* for wifi cards
  54. Feb 14 13:34:36 <Pali> and now some idiot got nice idea how to revert kernel patches in userspace...
  55. Feb 14 13:34:48 <Pali> and also break everything...
  56. Feb 14 13:35:06 <DocScrutinizer05> that's Lennart's preferred game
  57. Feb 14 13:35:34 <Pali> if they wanted *pemanent* numbers for devices, why not to use scheme wlan<numer> and eth<number>??
  58. Feb 14 13:35:51 <Pali> Now I really do not understand this step
  59. Feb 14 13:36:19 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess each time he watches whole linux world stumpling and falling for a major fuckup he introduced, he gets a day-long orgasm
  60. Feb 14 13:37:29 <DocScrutinizer05> next few weeks he has fever with delusions of thousands of devels patching their code to adopt his braindead new patch
  61. Feb 14 13:38:22 <DocScrutinizer05> "no matter if the love or hate you. as long as everybody speaks about you, you're famous"
  62. Feb 14 13:38:29 <DocScrutinizer05> they*
  63. Feb 14 13:40:12 <DocScrutinizer05> ~poettering
  64. Feb 14 13:40:12 <infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
  65. Feb 14 13:42:19 <topro> does anyone know whats the n900 timer granularity, please? is it as bad as 50msec as my first test implies?
  66. Feb 14 13:42:32 <kerio> which timer?
  67. Feb 14 13:42:55 <topro> all timers rely on kernel timer granularity, don't they?
  68. Feb 14 13:43:52 <kerio> sure
  69. Feb 14 13:44:16 <topro> I need to measure time intervals in my c++ code as precisely as possible
  70. Feb 14 13:44:58 <topro> I tried QTime::elapsed and it implies a resolution of 50ms.
  71. Feb 14 13:45:04 <kerio> "implies" how?
  72. Feb 14 13:45:35 <topro> it returns ms, but all results I get are a multiple of 50
  73. Feb 14 13:48:06 <kerio> what does gettimeofday() do?
  74. Feb 14 13:48:36 <topro> kerio: didn't try and have my sdk at home. so i'll give it a try tonight.
  75. Feb 14 13:49:13 <topro> I'll let you know ;) anyway, thanks for the hint
  76. Feb 14 13:57:22 <teotwaki> topro: timer precision is based on the platform
  77. Feb 14 14:02:40 <teotwaki> topro: you may be able to use the PMU to get some more precise timers, but it's going to be very platform-specific (cortex v8 in this case)
  78. Feb 14 14:02:56 <teotwaki> topro: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0344k/ch14s10s01.html
  79. Feb 14 14:12:17 <DocScrutinizer05> generally "jiffies" is the buzzword
  80. Feb 14 14:14:44 <DocScrutinizer05> teotwaki: hey, ETM, my pet topic :-)
  81. Feb 14 14:15:10 <kerio> how do high-resolution clocks deal with relativistic effects?
  82. Feb 14 14:15:17 <DocScrutinizer05> teotwaki: don't you think ETM would make for a really great extension to what gdb can do?
  83. Feb 14 14:16:05 <DocScrutinizer05> teotwaki: AIUI ETB is available on platform as well, not only via the jtag interface
  84. Feb 14 14:17:57 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: absolutely identical to the way my butt deals with them
  85. Feb 14 14:18:27 <kerio> but... your butt isn't used to keep the time!
  86. Feb 14 14:18:47 <kerio> ...is it?
  87. Feb 14 14:20:15 <teotwaki> by the way
  88. Feb 14 14:20:37 <teotwaki> a guy on my team, friend I've known for decades, a small god when it comes to debugging and hunting down bugs
  89. Feb 14 14:20:56 <teotwaki> his 4-letter name is JTAG
  90. Feb 14 14:21:05 <kerio> haha
  91. Feb 14 14:21:06 <kerio> nice
  92. Feb 14 14:21:11 <teotwaki> (first initial then 3 first letters of last name)
  93. Feb 14 14:21:20 <teotwaki> his email is actually jtag@...
  94. Feb 14 14:23:38 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, do you have any news about extras-devel? when will be working again?
  95. Feb 14 14:24:05 <DocScrutinizer05> topro: > >The accuracy of various system calls that set timeouts, (e.g., select(2), sigtimedwait(2)) and measure CPU time (e.g., getrusage(2)) is limited by the resolution of the software clock, a clock maintained by the kernel which measures time in jiffies. The size of a jiffy is determined by the value of the kernel constant HZ.<< ( man 7 time )
  96. Feb 14 14:24:10 <kerio> Pali: ask merlin1991
  97. Feb 14 14:24:31 <Pali> autobuilder for extras-devel still not working
  98. Feb 14 14:24:38 <Pali> kerio, why merlin?
  99. Feb 14 14:24:52 <kerio> he's the repo dude now
  100. Feb 14 14:25:03 <Pali> merlin1991: ping
  101. Feb 14 14:25:24 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: possibly never, since HiFo is too concerned any volunteer touching it might be a rogue hacker that messes up our infra
  102. Feb 14 14:25:51 <kerio> oh yeah, there's that too
  103. Feb 14 14:26:12 <Pali> so this is end of maemo, fremantle and n900?
  104. Feb 14 14:26:18 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: also HiFo does not trust in my abilities to properly handle permissions (or they have never heard about permissions)
  105. Feb 14 14:28:48 <DocScrutinizer05> I just wonder wtf been the purpose of HiFo appointing me for maemo administration manager then, when they want to doublecheck and approve every single chmod or useradd I do
  106. Feb 14 14:29:48 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, these correspondence emails, are they going between you and Rob or you and the whole board?
  107. Feb 14 14:30:31 <DocScrutinizer05> one been from him to me, with no visible CC. The others are between board and council
  108. Feb 14 14:33:30 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: (end of...) depends on very next actions and/or statements from HiFo. Possibly yes
  109. Feb 14 14:35:45 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: NB while 2 out of 3 of HiFo opted for "let them do their job, we can review and revoke everything any time later on", one (guess who) insists in HiFo staying in control of everything related to daily operational business, while same time they say HiFo can't decide anything any faster than ~2 weeks delay minimum
  110. Feb 14 14:36:08 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: so... can't they outvote him?
  111. Feb 14 14:36:26 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: NFC what's the deal with HiFo
  112. Feb 14 14:36:44 <thedead1440> kerio: you need to find evidence of misconduct to do so; although IMO his actions are enough of gross misconduct
  113. Feb 14 14:36:59 <DocScrutinizer05> once I thought I know what they are supposed to do and how they might do that. Now I really don't know anymore about what ideas they got
  114. Feb 14 14:37:17 <thedead1440> also they can't outvote him; Council decide on misconduct demeanour's
  115. Feb 14 14:37:29 <kerio> ...really
  116. Feb 14 14:37:37 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, and some info from nokia about maemo swadmin gpg key?
  117. Feb 14 14:37:43 <kerio> Pali: nothing, so far
  118. Feb 14 14:37:59 <thedead1440> that i mean to kick him out; outvote the issue is they inadvertently end up following him for whatever it is
  119. Feb 14 14:40:36 <kerio> Pali: btw, i was looking for you a while ago
  120. Feb 14 14:40:40 <kerio> my Conversations have a scrollbar
  121. Feb 14 14:40:55 <kerio> the kind that you have to drag around
  122. Feb 14 14:41:05 <Pali> kerio, I had same
  123. Feb 14 14:41:05 <kerio> and trying to scroll in the middle selects text instead
  124. Feb 14 14:41:10 <kerio> i know, that's why i wanted to ask you
  125. Feb 14 14:41:24 <kerio> i already tried deleting my .mozilla
  126. Feb 14 14:41:26 <kerio> didn't fix it
  127. Feb 14 14:41:29 * DocScrutinizer05 feels like in school, asking "may I visit the toilet" and answer is "send in filled form 27B/2 for that"
  128. Feb 14 14:42:01 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: obviously, piss in a corner
  129. Feb 14 14:42:03 <Pali> kerio, check permission in .mozilla
  130. Feb 14 14:42:12 <Pali> also owner/group
  131. Feb 14 14:42:35 <Pali> I deted that folder more times and killed browser/rtcom processes
  132. Feb 14 14:42:45 <Pali> and this fixed it
  133. Feb 14 14:46:50 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: either that, or just ignore the answer and leave room without further comment [yet to be decided upon whether to come back after toilet or just go home and have a morepleasant day]
  134. Feb 14 14:49:59 <kerio> Pali: the thing is, i deleted it when the system was off
  135. Feb 14 14:50:04 <kerio> so it should've been completely rebuilt afterwards
  136. Feb 14 14:53:39 <kerio> hm, i think i botched the optification
  137. Feb 14 14:55:31 <topro> DocScrutinizer05: concerning kernel constant HZ: afaik this is true for kernels not supporting high resolution timers, or is hr_timers something x86 specific?
  138. Feb 14 14:56:07 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, that's too specific for my knowledge about the topic
  139. Feb 14 14:56:08 <topro> iirc hr timers came with ~2.6.25, right?
  140. Feb 14 14:56:59 <kerio> Pali: no luck :(
  141. Feb 14 14:57:56 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: (optification) toldya ;)
  142. Feb 14 14:58:05 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i also undid the optification
  143. Feb 14 14:58:07 <kerio> and the problem stayed
  144. Feb 14 14:58:17 <kerio> so i don't know if it's the optification or my weird configuration
  145. Feb 14 14:58:25 <kerio> ...i don't receive messages that often
  146. Feb 14 14:58:45 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: some maybe useless guessoid: I seem to recall this stuff is related to themes
  147. Feb 14 15:01:16 <merlin1991> what was the non-systemd udev project again?=
  148. Feb 14 15:02:37 <Pali> ~seen Aranel
  149. Feb 14 15:02:49 <infobot> aranel is currently on #n9 (15h 33m 55s) #harmattan (15h 33m 55s) #meego (15h 33m 55s), last said: 'thedead1440: oh okay, It was weird to see all kinds of errors when running a apt-get purge'.
  150. Feb 14 15:03:14 <Pali> kerio, ask Aranel, he had same problem
  151. Feb 14 15:03:54 <Pali> merlin1991, udev is part of systemd...
  152. Feb 14 15:04:29 <merlin1991> Pali: there is a non systemd udev poject
  153. Feb 14 15:05:30 <Pali> merlin1991, I heard about it, but devs who forked it told that this non systemd udev is not for normal usage...
  154. Feb 14 15:05:45 <n900-dk> DocScrutinizer05: Please down leave - hope you will return to the class, so you can enjoy all the fun from your classmates - no matter how stupid and incompetent the supervisors are :)
  155. Feb 14 15:06:05 <kerio> yeah, down leave!
  156. Feb 14 15:06:06 <kerio> wait, what
  157. Feb 14 15:06:28 <n900-dk> ~s/down/dont/
  158. Feb 14 15:08:31 <merlin1991> Pali: doesn't say that in their readme: https://github.com/gentoo/eudev
  159. Feb 14 15:09:18 <Pali> merlin1991, devs who forked udev told that on fosdem
  160. Feb 14 15:09:38 <merlin1991> ah okay
  161. Feb 14 15:09:56 <DocScrutinizer05> they need to get convinced for the better
  162. Feb 14 15:10:03 <ccxCZ> well, they said e stands for experimental
  163. Feb 14 15:10:40 <ccxCZ> or could stand
  164. Feb 14 15:10:50 <ccxCZ> so far they mostly just re-plumbed the buildsystem and tweaked few things here and there
  165. Feb 14 15:11:30 <ccxCZ> but the goal is of course to have something in case systemd devs go borg on init systems
  166. Feb 14 15:11:38 <kerio> "in case"?
  167. Feb 14 15:12:26 <ccxCZ> no comment :]
  168. Feb 14 15:12:40 <ccxCZ> I'm happily using mdev and openrc atm
  169. Feb 14 15:12:54 <DocScrutinizer05> fsck systemd
  170. Feb 14 15:13:00 <DocScrutinizer05> ~poettering
  171. Feb 14 15:13:01 <infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
  172. Feb 14 15:13:28 <merlin1991> hm never heard of openrc
  173. Feb 14 15:15:17 <n900-dk> anyone using x11vnc on the n900?
  174. Feb 14 15:15:54 <kerio> meh, i should reflash
  175. Feb 14 15:15:55 <DocScrutinizer05> s/dead or alive/dead: reward 10000EUR, alive: reward 1000EUR"/
  176. Feb 14 15:16:05 <kerio> starting over is always fun
  177. Feb 14 15:16:14 <kerio> "dead or alive, but preferrably dead"
  178. Feb 14 15:17:13 <DocScrutinizer05> s/dead or alive/dead: reward 10000EUR, alive: reward 1000EUR (only when conveniently packaged)"/
  179. Feb 14 15:17:34 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: do you have a BM backup of a freshly-flashed system?
  180. Feb 14 15:18:14 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer05: systemd is very good compared to PA
  181. Feb 14 15:18:21 <Pali> kerio, try to install new theme
  182. Feb 14 15:18:37 <Pali> switch to that new theme and reboot
  183. Feb 14 15:19:18 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: sorry, probably not
  184. Feb 14 15:19:41 <kerio> hm, it's probably even better to grab the .fiasco images, unpack, nandsim, and grab the files
  185. Feb 14 15:20:48 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: i might deliver any files you ask for
  186. Feb 14 15:21:23 <kerio> nah, i'll do it myself after i boot my linux partition
  187. Feb 14 15:21:25 <kerio> no nandsim on os x
  188. Feb 14 15:21:28 <kerio> and no ubifs
  189. Feb 14 15:21:30 <kerio> and no ext
  190. Feb 14 15:21:34 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
  191. Feb 14 15:22:02 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: can you check if /usr/share/themes is a symlink on your system(s)?
  192. Feb 14 15:22:11 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
  193. Feb 14 15:24:17 <DocScrutinizer05> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 2010-06-23 06:03 /usr/share/themes -> /opt/usr/share/themes
  194. Feb 14 15:24:24 <kerio> ok, so it wasn't mine :)
  195. Feb 14 15:25:04 <DocScrutinizer05> incredible how much customization hides in /etc etc
  196. Feb 14 15:25:29 <DocScrutinizer05> ssh iron900: ssh: Could not resolve hostname iron900: Name or service not known
  197. Feb 14 15:26:01 <kerio> lrn2.ssh/config
  198. Feb 14 15:26:05 <DocScrutinizer05> moving to a new system *always* is weeks of annoyance
  199. Feb 14 15:26:21 <merlin1991> that's why you put ssh fun into .ssh/config
  200. Feb 14 15:26:28 <merlin1991> so you keep at least those aliases ;)
  201. Feb 14 15:26:32 <kerio> Pali: still no dice
  202. Feb 14 15:26:40 <kerio> but the theme thing *is* a bit weird
  203. Feb 14 15:26:42 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: i'm not going to assign IP addr to hostnames inside my ssh config
  204. Feb 14 15:26:43 <kerio> some things don't change properly
  205. Feb 14 15:27:09 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: since that's clearly a job for /etc7hosts
  206. Feb 14 15:27:09 <kerio> also what the fuck, hildon-theme-beta is ugly as fuck
  207. Feb 14 15:29:31 <Pali> kerio, try to spawn browser[d] and rtcom-* with run-standalone.sh
  208. Feb 14 15:30:48 <DocScrutinizer05> grrr, no fan RpM on linux sensors for this board
  209. Feb 14 15:32:37 <DocScrutinizer05> Manufacturer: "Intel Corporation" Product: "DH77EB" Version: "AAG39073-304"
  210. Feb 14 15:34:53 <Pali> kerio, I updated battery status plugin, bme replacement packages and kernel-power v52
  211. Feb 14 15:35:06 <kerio> yay
  212. Feb 14 15:35:13 <Pali> there was bug in rx51_battery driver which reported temperature in bad units
  213. Feb 14 15:35:22 <Pali> so I changed it also in bme replacement packages
  214. Feb 14 15:35:34 <kerio> hm, is that the only fix?
  215. Feb 14 15:35:57 <kerio> ~pali
  216. Feb 14 15:35:57 <infobot> well, pali is http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/
  217. Feb 14 15:36:11 <Pali> kerio, next patch is for bq2415x driver
  218. Feb 14 15:36:25 <Pali> I renamed none mode to off
  219. Feb 14 15:36:39 <kerio> is "none" also still accepted?
  220. Feb 14 15:36:45 <Pali> and added new none mode which enable charger with current limit 100mA
  221. Feb 14 15:36:50 <kerio> oh
  222. Feb 14 15:36:51 <kerio> neat
  223. Feb 14 15:37:14 <kerio> Pali: why not "low" or something like that?
  224. Feb 14 15:37:29 <kerio> breaking backwards-compatibility, even for bleeding-edge things, always makes me sad :(
  225. Feb 14 15:37:33 <Pali> usb spec say that 100mA is max limit before usb enumeration
  226. Feb 14 15:37:47 <kerio> yeah, but why not call it "low"?
  227. Feb 14 15:37:50 <Pali> so 100mA is safe
  228. Feb 14 15:38:09 <Pali> because none is already used by some scripts/people
  229. Feb 14 15:38:25 <kerio> ...that's precisely the wrong reason to call it none
  230. Feb 14 15:39:06 <Pali> unknown/none/na charger
  231. Feb 14 15:40:21 <Pali> kerio, make sure you update kernel-power and bme replacement packages at one time without rebooting
  232. Feb 14 15:40:37 <Pali> instead you can get bootloop because of "hot" device
  233. Feb 14 15:40:38 <kerio> yeah, i figured :)
  234. Feb 14 15:41:28 <Pali> now I pushed also update for status area battery plugin to cssu devel
  235. Feb 14 15:42:47 <kerio> Pali: what's the directory for kernel-power on your site?
  236. Feb 14 15:43:19 <Pali> it is not in directory
  237. Feb 14 15:43:23 <kerio> :(
  238. Feb 14 15:44:28 <Pali> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1270141&postcount=168
  239. Feb 14 15:45:03 <kerio> wait, that's september 21
  240. Feb 14 15:46:11 <Pali> links are same
  241. Feb 14 15:49:25 <kerio> Pali: have you also gave a look at my patch for u-boot-tools?
  242. Feb 14 15:49:41 <Pali> kerio, not yet...
  243. Feb 14 15:50:17 <Pali> merlin1991, when will be next cssu meeting?
  244. Feb 14 15:53:58 <kerio> Pali: it boots! yay!
  245. Feb 14 15:56:31 <kerio> holy shit, 3 seconds for 2 reboots
  246. Feb 14 15:57:31 <Pali> what?
  247. Feb 14 16:11:03 <kerio> Pali: the hwclock
  248. Feb 14 16:11:11 <kerio> it drifts like hell
  249. Feb 14 16:18:20 <Pali> kerio, I forgot to update hald-addon-bme, now I uploaded new deb package
  250. Feb 14 16:19:44 <kerio> D:
  251. Feb 14 16:23:57 <MentalistTraceur> kerio: is that face at or about me?
  252. Feb 14 16:24:11 <kerio> MentalistTraceur: no, it's just that i have to reboot
  253. Feb 14 16:24:25 <DocScrutinizer05> [notice] mail back to normal operation
  254. Feb 14 16:24:33 <DocScrutinizer05> hi MentalistTraceur
  255. Feb 14 16:24:37 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: but is it a board-approved operation?
  256. Feb 14 16:25:05 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: obviously not, so i gonna have to delete all mails that would get sent to board
  257. Feb 14 16:25:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
  258. Feb 14 16:27:32 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: (hwclock drift) fix your adjfile!
  259. Feb 14 16:27:38 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: oh you
  260. Feb 14 16:28:41 <DocScrutinizer05> I honestly never seen RTC drifting much. I seen hwclock --adjfile messing stuff up fubar several times
  261. Feb 14 16:29:06 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: the hwclock has 1-sec granularity
  262. Feb 14 16:29:29 <kerio> i guess that you'll lose half a second, on average, for each write/shutdown/boot/read
  263. Feb 14 16:31:14 <DocScrutinizer05> oh FFS
  264. Feb 14 16:31:33 * DocScrutinizer05 wishes he hadn't fixed mail VM
  265. Feb 14 16:32:18 <DocScrutinizer05> :-(
  266. Feb 14 17:09:41 <Pali> kerio, I updated kernel-power deb packages
  267. Feb 14 17:10:00 <Pali> I forgot to include one patch for bq2415x
  268. Feb 14 17:10:32 <Pali> without it sysfs node reported bad detected charger
  269. Feb 14 18:02:11 <kerio> Pali: blah
  270. Feb 14 18:02:17 <kerio> one more reboot
  271. Feb 14 18:02:25 <kerio> son, i am disappoint
  272. Feb 14 18:02:45 <kerio> Pali: i want ksplice for kernel-power!
  273. Feb 14 18:21:23 <WizardNumberNext> udev - that seams to be work of some alien! I do not understand this lanuage at all. I think, if that shit would happen, i am going to put all my interfaces on bridge and build brtables and arptables to get back both sensul name and normal NIC behavour
  274. Feb 14 18:21:51 <kerio> how expensive is a hitman?
  275. Feb 14 18:22:03 <kerio> we can pool some bitcoins
  276. Feb 14 18:26:42 <Pali> cut his hands, so he will not be able to write any new line of code
  277. Feb 14 18:29:29 <kerio> Pali: there's speech-to-text now
  278. Feb 14 18:29:40 <kerio> i believe that any solution has to be more... radical
  279. Feb 14 18:30:52 <DocScrutinizer05> i'm afraid redhat would pull a clone out of their fridge if anything ever happened to poettering
  280. Feb 14 18:30:56 <kerio> hahaha
  281. Feb 14 18:31:09 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: systemd's bus factor is 1
  282. Feb 14 18:31:56 <DocScrutinizer05> which in itself disqualifies systemd for any serious system
  283. Feb 14 18:32:33 <DocScrutinizer05> since eventually he *will* get hit by a bus, and then? watch systemd bitrotting?
  284. Feb 14 18:32:42 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: gleefully
  285. Feb 14 18:32:55 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: btw, can you drive a bus?
  286. Feb 14 19:02:45 <kerio> also, should i reflash, at last?
  287. Feb 14 19:29:44 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: I can drive everything from a micro rc-car (28mm total length) to bus, tank, even helicopter
  288. Feb 14 19:30:45 <GeneralAntilles> You don't drive a helicopter.
  289. Feb 14 19:32:41 <RST38h> So, Doc, how big a... mhm... helicopter have you driven so far?
  290. Feb 14 19:50:13 <DocScrutinizer05> how big is this Bell thing?
  291. Feb 14 19:51:26 <DocScrutinizer05> (it only been 3 minutes, on a ride I hired where some other pilot did lessons and they wanted to earn a hundred bucks for taking me with them)
  292. Feb 14 19:52:09 <DocScrutinizer05> the other ones been much smaller, much much much smaller ;-)
  293. Feb 14 19:52:46 <DocScrutinizer05> (or even virtual)
  294. Feb 14 20:01:43 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: a good friend of me stated I don't drive a car either - he supposed I operate a mobile Otto engine
  295. Feb 14 20:03:30 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i bet that a helicopter-shaped dent in lennart poettering would do wonders for systemd
  296. Feb 14 20:04:59 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd bet on that. Less though on the details of that wonder. Might be rather unexpected
  297. Feb 14 20:11:15 <ShadowJK> I wonder if red bull went through / completed their planned modifications to their Bo105 that would enable it to hover upside down
  298. Feb 14 20:11:34 <kerio> seriously, what the hell's wrong with my browserd
  299. Feb 14 20:13:12 <GeneralAntilles> ShadowJK, terrifying
  300. Feb 14 20:24:01 <kerio> browserd[2232]: New e:0x60530, g:0x2f65e8, ctx:(nil)
  301. Feb 14 20:24:08 <kerio> what does this mean?
  302. Feb 14 20:28:42 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: thismeans it got a flue, and wants a hooker
  303. Feb 14 20:30:26 <kerio> E: Couldn't find package microb-engine-hooker
  304. Feb 14 20:30:44 <DocScrutinizer05> aaaaaw
  305. Feb 14 20:31:23 <DocScrutinizer05> isn't browserd open?
  306. Feb 14 20:31:31 <kerio> not rtcom-messaging-ui though
  307. Feb 14 20:31:43 <spoofy> Hello :) I have a problem after battery calibration. Polarcell ~1550 mAh. I don't have any low battery alert notification or sound.
  308. Feb 14 20:31:53 <DocScrutinizer05> this clearly states the process is browserd
  309. Feb 14 20:32:03 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: smartarse
  310. Feb 14 20:32:28 <kerio> spoofy: i doubt it was caused by the calibration itself
  311. Feb 14 20:32:47 <kerio> anyway, bme won't really care about your calibration
  312. Feb 14 20:32:52 <spoofy> kerio: so I should recalibrate it again?
  313. Feb 14 20:33:11 <DocScrutinizer05> why would you calibrate first instance?
  314. Feb 14 20:33:11 <ShadowJK> bme doesn't care about calibration
  315. Feb 14 20:33:48 <DocScrutinizer05> unless you're using bq27k-detail or bq27200.sh you don't even notice calibration
  316. Feb 14 20:33:57 <kerio> or the bme replacement!
  317. Feb 14 20:34:07 <kerio> except that it tends to use bogus data
  318. Feb 14 20:34:07 <DocScrutinizer05> he didn't even mention that
  319. Feb 14 20:34:09 <kerio> Pali: >:C
  320. Feb 14 20:34:22 <spoofy> Hmm.. I used a sq27200.sh script
  321. Feb 14 20:34:32 <kerio> holy shit the microb-engine tarball is 58mb, compressed
  322. Feb 14 20:34:34 <spoofy> bq*
  323. Feb 14 20:34:47 <DocScrutinizer05> then you should be able to tell if your calibration been successful or not
  324. Feb 14 20:34:49 <kerio> spoofy: yeah but the battery meter doesn't use that
  325. Feb 14 20:35:20 <DocScrutinizer05> is CI=0? what's cycles-since-last-learning?
  326. Feb 14 20:35:25 <ShadowJK> spoofy, the "calibration" only makes a difference for the values reported by bq27200.sh and similar programs. It makes no difference for the default built-in battery meter or low battery alarms...
  327. Feb 14 20:36:03 <spoofy> Damn it :/
  328. Feb 14 20:36:33 <DocScrutinizer05> spoofy: I suggest `stop bme; sleep 5; start bme; sleep 5; stop mce; sleep 5; start mce`
  329. Feb 14 20:37:09 <spoofy> DocScrutinizer05: hmmm.. ok I'll try
  330. Feb 14 20:37:25 <DocScrutinizer05> probably your calibration deactivated bat-low warnings and your 2forgot2 to re-enable it
  331. Feb 14 20:37:38 <DocScrutinizer05> "forgot"*
  332. Feb 14 20:37:42 <spoofy> DocScrutinizer05: You think It will help?
  333. Feb 14 20:37:48 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
  334. Feb 14 20:37:48 <kerio> or he just didn't start bme again
  335. Feb 14 20:37:52 <spoofy> I used polarcell since mounth or more
  336. Feb 14 20:37:56 <kerio> although... nah
  337. Feb 14 20:38:00 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: that's basically what I meant
  338. Feb 14 20:39:46 <spoofy> also the new "battery applet" from dev repo is not working right
  339. Feb 14 20:40:02 <spoofy> It shows 1280 mAh but I have 155x mAh
  340. Feb 14 20:40:44 <kerio> spoofy: the battery applet from cssu-devel prefers to display utterly bogus data instead of nothing at all
  341. Feb 14 20:41:10 <kerio> and it prefers to display utterly bogus data instead of data that's reported as perfectly accurate, and *is* perfectly accurate, but it "might not be"
  342. Feb 14 20:41:26 <ecc3g> is there even a way for the n900 to measure actual capacity of the battery? That "capacity resistor" definitely does not do justice to degraded cells...
  343. Feb 14 20:41:37 <kerio> ecc3g: the capacity resistor is the utterly bogus data
  344. Feb 14 20:41:45 <kerio> bq27k can be calibrated, and it's fairly accurate
  345. Feb 14 20:42:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ~bq27k
  346. Feb 14 20:42:11 <DocScrutinizer05> meh
  347. Feb 14 20:42:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ~listkeys bq27
  348. Feb 14 20:42:21 <infobot> Factoid search of 'bq27' by key (2): bq27k-detail ;; bq27200.
  349. Feb 14 20:42:28 <spoofy> Last mesured Discharge: 1557 mAh
  350. Feb 14 20:42:37 <DocScrutinizer05> ~bq27k-detail
  351. Feb 14 20:42:37 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, bq27k-detail is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2
  352. Feb 14 20:42:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ~bq27200
  353. Feb 14 20:42:49 <infobot> [bq27k-detail] http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2
  354. Feb 14 20:43:50 <DocScrutinizer05> also:
  355. Feb 14 20:43:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ~batteryfaq
  356. Feb 14 20:43:56 <infobot> i heard batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers
  357. Feb 14 20:44:18 <DocScrutinizer05> (which has built-in bq27000)
  358. Feb 14 20:45:38 <DocScrutinizer05> spoofy: also you should use my script later on in that thread, rather than manual method as suggested by Estel
  359. Feb 14 20:46:00 <DocScrutinizer05> ...for bq27200 calibration
  360. Feb 14 20:46:58 <DocScrutinizer05> or simply look there: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh
  361. Feb 14 20:47:18 <ShadowJK> 1557 sounds fine for polarcell anyway
  362. Feb 14 20:48:05 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
  363. Feb 14 20:48:11 <spoofy> w8.. I just want to have: a) battery icon working - showing actual +/- battery state, b) Alert notifications before completly discharge, c) Real battery captivity
  364. Feb 14 20:48:25 <DocScrutinizer05> and 1280 for design capacity sunds abut right as well
  365. Feb 14 20:48:29 <spoofy> What should I use to have all of these "features" :D
  366. Feb 14 20:48:47 <spoofy> what kind'a script, calibratin or something :D
  367. Feb 14 20:49:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't think there's such thing 8yet)
  368. Feb 14 20:49:16 <DocScrutinizer05> (yet)
  369. Feb 14 20:49:31 <spoofy> Doc, Why should I use your script?
  370. Feb 14 20:49:40 <spoofy> Is it better than estels bqxxxx?
  371. Feb 14 20:50:08 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer05; ffs, his issue isn't calibration
  372. Feb 14 20:50:08 <DocScrutinizer05> because it takes care about stopping and starting bme at the right moments, and works unattended
  373. Feb 14 20:50:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: his issue are pink ponies, for all I can tell
  374. Feb 14 20:51:29 <DocScrutinizer05> or, right now, a misconception about calibration paired with a flawed calibration procedure resulting in bme not working
  375. Feb 14 20:51:34 <spoofy> Ok.. so when I'm calibrating the battery (learning cycle - stop bme, charge&discharge > bme learned new captivity > charge again) I should stop bme few times again?
  376. Feb 14 20:51:59 <ShadowJK> All those random scripts, including all of mine, wont do anything for him.
  377. Feb 14 20:52:06 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
  378. Feb 14 20:52:26 <ShadowJK> spoofy; no, bme never learns anything, ever.
  379. Feb 14 20:52:28 <DocScrutinizer05> except save him from messing up stuff during manual calibration
  380. Feb 14 20:53:09 <DocScrutinizer05> [2013-02-14 21:48:11] <spoofy> w8.. I just want to have: a) battery icon working - showing actual +/- battery state, b) Alert notifications before completly discharge, c) Real battery captivity
  381. Feb 14 20:53:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ENOTAVAIL
  382. Feb 14 20:53:27 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: coffcoffbme replacementcoffcoff
  383. Feb 14 20:54:20 <ShadowJK> The bme replacement might be able to do it eventually, but I don't know anything about it, except that kerio seems to curse its bugs on a regular basis :)
  384. Feb 14 20:54:32 <spoofy> oh ok.. nvm I'm totally stupid today ;]
  385. Feb 14 20:54:42 <kerio> ShadowJK: it works as coded
  386. Feb 14 20:54:46 <kerio> hell, it works as intended
  387. Feb 14 20:54:56 <kerio> the bugs are in a particular detail of the intention
  388. Feb 14 20:55:12 <ShadowJK> So the bug is in the spec then? :P
  389. Feb 14 20:55:23 <kerio> kinda, yeah
  390. Feb 14 20:57:09 <ShadowJK> Discovered such a bug at $work yesterday.. Our intern had wired up a electrical cabinet, I was attaching datalines and sensorlines and happened to noticed miswiring that would've smoked everything if it was energized. Wasn't the intern's fault though, the bureau that did the schematics messed up
  391. Feb 14 20:57:28 <ShadowJK> bugfree implementation, buggy spec :D
  392. Feb 14 20:57:39 <MentalistTraceur> Why do we even bother with this 'battery capacity' abstraction (obv. for end-users, but meh)? Is there a battery applet that shows something more concrete, like voltage being pulled at a given time?
  393. Feb 14 20:58:50 <MentalistTraceur> (Disclaimer, I have very little understanding of batteries, so I could be way off here)
  394. Feb 14 20:59:12 <ShadowJK> MentalistTraceur; "pulling voltage" is meaningless gibberish :P
  395. Feb 14 20:59:23 <MentalistTraceur> K.
  396. Feb 14 20:59:28 <zl2tod> voltage pushes, current is pulled, power = volts * amps
  397. Feb 14 20:59:31 <kerio> MentalistTraceur: current being pulled, maybe
  398. Feb 14 20:59:39 <kerio> that would be neat
  399. Feb 14 21:00:02 <ShadowJK> and energy = power * time, capacity = current * time
  400. Feb 14 21:00:16 <kerio> wait
  401. Feb 14 21:00:28 <kerio> isn't capacity charge over voltage?
  402. Feb 14 21:00:29 <MentalistTraceur> Technical terminology accuracy notwithstanding, I think the point underlying that stands?
  403. Feb 14 21:00:46 <kerio> MentalistTraceur: showing the current current isn't of much use
  404. Feb 14 21:00:54 <kerio> the screen backlight would dwarf anything else
  405. Feb 14 21:01:07 <kerio> and if the screen's off...
  406. Feb 14 21:01:23 <ShadowJK> the act of observing it has more impact on the value than anything else ;)
  407. Feb 14 21:01:33 <kerio> the replacement battery applet shows the time to empty when idle
  408. Feb 14 21:01:38 <kerio> that's kinda useful
  409. Feb 14 21:01:57 <kerio> spoofy: also what the fuck, why do you have cssu-devel enabled
  410. Feb 14 21:02:30 <ShadowJK> :o
  411. Feb 14 21:03:01 <kerio> except that it doesn't use bq27k as the preferred source of everything :(
  412. Feb 14 21:03:14 <kerio> or, rather, the replacement hald-addon-bme doesn't use bq27k as the preferred source of everything
  413. Feb 14 21:03:47 <MentalistTraceur> Doesn't, over time, the current decrease as battery discharges? Or voltage, or (insert proper technical term here)? So you'd still have some gauge of battery power loss? Anyway, I actually got on to ask something unrelated: freenode says to connect to chat.freenode.net, yet I always connect to irc.freenode.net. It seems to be the same, but is there a difference in terms of what servers are in ...
  414. Feb 14 21:03:53 <MentalistTraceur> ... the rotation with those two urls?
  415. Feb 14 21:04:28 <kerio> MentalistTraceur: none
  416. Feb 14 21:04:47 <spoofy> kerio: I upgrade from cssu-devel :D I like to be on "bleeding-edge" :D
  417. Feb 14 21:05:03 <spoofy> just before "migration" stuff
  418. Feb 14 21:05:21 <ShadowJK> Voltage decreases with decreasing stored capacity and with varying load.. it's not linear and not that interesting for users
  419. Feb 14 21:05:22 <MentalistTraceur> Being on bleeding-edge tends to increase risk of self-induced bleeding.
  420. Feb 14 21:05:56 <MentalistTraceur> ShadowJK: I know it would vary by load as well, but I personally would still want to see that more than a vague capacity indicator.
  421. Feb 14 21:06:05 <kerio> "vague"
  422. Feb 14 21:06:08 <kerio> bq27k is precise as hell
  423. Feb 14 21:06:31 <ShadowJK> MentalistTraceur; voltage is a really crap indicator
  424. Feb 14 21:06:46 <MentalistTraceur> K. I defer to your technically superior knowledge.
  425. Feb 14 21:06:59 <zl2tod> chat.freenode.net has IPv6 address 2001:19f0:feee::dead:beef:cafe
  426. Feb 14 21:07:09 <kerio> zl2tod: it's not just one
  427. Feb 14 21:07:17 <ShadowJK> it's more or less "70-100", "30-70", "0-30" percent that you can get from voltage
  428. Feb 14 21:07:27 <zl2tod> only one is funny
  429. Feb 14 21:07:47 <kerio> how dare they not all use funny addresses
  430. Feb 14 21:08:16 <MentalistTraceur> Though if I ever get around to it I'll totally code something like that anyway just for fun, since I'm sure would might still consider it neat.
  431. Feb 14 21:08:22 <ShadowJK> What we want is a battery meter that accurately counts charge in and out, so the meter can go from 100.0% to 0%, without making big jumps or suddenly decreasing/increasing at twice the usual rate for no reason in order to correct itself
  432. Feb 14 21:08:50 <teotwaki> When do we want it?
  433. Feb 14 21:08:51 <teotwaki> Now!
  434. Feb 14 21:09:33 <MentalistTraceur> Alright, I'm back to idling again.
  435. Feb 14 21:09:39 * ShadowJK has had it in x-terminal since early 2010
  436. Feb 14 21:25:30 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i can't figure out the code path that does the syslog log
  437. Feb 14 21:25:55 <DocScrutinizer05> uh?
  438. Feb 14 21:26:01 <kerio> microb-engine
  439. Feb 14 21:26:05 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh
  440. Feb 14 21:26:12 <DocScrutinizer05> grep is your friend
  441. Feb 14 21:26:20 <kerio> it's 415MB of source
  442. Feb 14 21:26:27 <DocScrutinizer05> so what?
  443. Feb 14 21:26:33 <DocScrutinizer05> grep doesn't mind
  444. Feb 14 21:26:51 <kerio> grep syslog doesn't help
  445. Feb 14 21:27:02 <kerio> grep log gives 21k lines
  446. Feb 14 21:27:08 <DocScrutinizer05> nah! grep for the string that gets logged
  447. Feb 14 21:27:21 <DocScrutinizer05> for the constant parts of it
  448. Feb 14 21:27:34 <kerio> browserd[2232]: New e:0x60530, g:0x2f65e8, ctx:(nil)
  449. Feb 14 21:27:43 <DocScrutinizer05> "New"
  450. Feb 14 21:27:49 <kerio> grepping for New is ridiculous, grepping for "New e" gives nothing
  451. Feb 14 21:27:52 <DocScrutinizer05> "ctx:"
  452. Feb 14 21:28:08 <kerio> daaaaaaaaang
  453. Feb 14 21:28:24 <kerio> two lines, but nope
  454. Feb 14 21:28:25 <DocScrutinizer05> even "ctx:(%"
  455. Feb 14 21:29:03 <DocScrutinizer05> don't forget about macros
  456. Feb 14 21:29:35 <DocScrutinizer05> so it as well could be '"ctx"'
  457. Feb 14 21:29:50 <DocScrutinizer05> or even plain ctx
  458. Feb 14 21:30:06 <DocScrutinizer05> "New.*ctx"
  459. Feb 14 21:30:31 <kerio> been trying all of these, nothing ._.
  460. Feb 14 21:48:48 <spoofy> Ok. New problem. I'm trying to compile newer webkit - svn r56124 on scratchbox. I've changed the make_names.pl (like this: http://code.metager.de/source/xref/android/4.0.3/external-webkit/Source/WebCore/dom/make_names.pl) but still compilation failed. Any help? (output: http://pastebin.com/TUcn1yJ0)
  461. Feb 14 21:56:13 <teotwaki> well fuck, I think I finally got why lcuk did whatever he did.
  462. Feb 14 22:04:08 <ecc3g> is there a ban on tmodns.net for skeiron? :o
  463. Feb 14 22:04:09 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: big jumps are to a degree sometimes needed.
  464. Feb 14 22:04:22 <kerio> wtf is tmodns?
  465. Feb 14 22:04:49 <ecc3g> tmobile
  466. Feb 14 22:04:54 <kerio> i see
  467. Feb 14 22:05:10 <SpeedEvil> if the user goes from reading an eBook at minimum brightness to streaming from the camera over 3g, the actual available capacity will drop significantly
  468. Feb 14 22:05:12 <ecc3g> getting timeouts accessing that mirror
  469. Feb 14 22:05:26 <SpeedEvil> especially with an old battery.
  470. Feb 14 22:05:31 <kerio> fucking chemistry
  471. Feb 14 22:05:50 <SpeedEvil> http://www.brookstone.com/nectar-mobile-power-system
  472. Feb 14 22:05:56 <SpeedEvil> on a related matter
  473. Feb 14 22:06:02 <SpeedEvil> fuel cell for mobiles
  474. Feb 14 22:06:16 <SpeedEvil> if it will actually go on sale is another question
  475. Feb 14 22:06:22 <DocScrutinizer05> preliminary "publishing" of MT's great work: http://privatepaste.com/9f0560802e
  476. Feb 14 22:06:22 <kerio> ooh, neat
  477. Feb 14 22:08:15 <ecc3g> not sure if there's an outright IP block for tmodns.net but I definitely can access from other access points... just that I want to abuse tmobile GSM as much as I can; after all, I'm paying for it :/
  478. Feb 14 22:08:54 <kerio> just use google dns
  479. Feb 14 22:09:11 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: that doesn't involve excluding board from any future decision ever :(
  480. Feb 14 22:09:43 <ecc3g> eh... no, my ip address resolves as *.tmodns.net, and I get a timeout when accessing http://skeiron.org but not with other IP addresses...
  481. Feb 14 22:10:04 <ecc3g> it could just be due to tmobile blocking it but... no idea
  482. Feb 14 22:10:55 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: eh?
  483. Feb 14 22:12:48 <kerio> it's still good
  484. Feb 14 22:13:02 <kerio> but not as good as i were expecting
  485. Feb 14 22:19:37 <DocScrutinizer05> ecc3g: maybe you got a victim of fail2ban?
  486. Feb 14 22:22:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ecc3g: nope, no fail2ban entries active
  487. Feb 14 22:25:47 <Macer> DocScrutinizer05: get maemo to install on my e7 with phoenix :-P
  488. Feb 14 22:26:16 <DocScrutinizer05> eh?
  489. Feb 14 22:26:53 <ecc3g> interesting... tmobile probably thinks that site is "evil" ... :(
  490. Feb 14 22:28:16 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq!
  491. Feb 14 22:28:20 <DocScrutinizer05> jr@linux-pa25:~> mc
  492. Feb 14 22:28:21 <DocScrutinizer05> Failed to run:
  493. Feb 14 22:28:23 <DocScrutinizer05> Your old settings were migrated from /home/jr/.mc
  494. Feb 14 22:28:24 <DocScrutinizer05> to Freedesktop recommended dirs.
  495. Feb 14 22:28:26 <DocScrutinizer05> To get more info, please visit
  496. Feb 14 22:28:27 <DocScrutinizer05> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
  497. Feb 14 22:28:29 <DocScrutinizer05> jr@linux-pa25:~>
  498. Feb 14 22:28:56 <MTraceur> Just wanted to exclaim my joy - T-Mobile does let IRC traffic through on IPv6!
  499. Feb 14 22:29:11 <DocScrutinizer05> PLEASE CAN SOMEBODY ALREADY SHOOT THIS TWAT!?!
  500. Feb 14 22:29:40 <ecc3g> they let irc traffic through ipv4 oddly enough
  501. Feb 14 22:29:56 <DocScrutinizer05> MTraceur: nice
  502. Feb 14 22:30:05 <ecc3g> err... oh thought you made an sarcastic response about tmobile... heh
  503. Feb 14 22:31:00 <DocScrutinizer05> poettering's revenge
  504. Feb 14 22:31:00 <ecc3g> one of the isps I use does not allow irc traffic, so I have to keep on swapping... sigh...hate blocks.
  505. Feb 14 22:31:26 <MTraceur> ecc3g: T-Mobile USA? Or T-Mobile in Europe? I'm in USA. (At least in my area, connecting to freenode irc over ipv4, their DNS servers or whatever other stuff they have in their network getting in the way and cause um, what's it called...
  506. Feb 14 22:31:33 <MTraceur> sasl authentication errors.
  507. Feb 14 22:31:35 <MTraceur> )
  508. Feb 14 22:31:40 <ecc3g> tmobile usa... I guess I don't use encrypted
  509. Feb 14 22:31:48 <MTraceur> I don't think they're intentionally blocking it,
  510. Feb 14 22:32:24 <MTraceur> it's just that they have some mitm stuff going on, that makes the irc client think it's supposed to authenticate over sasl,
  511. Feb 14 22:32:38 <ecc3g> weird.
  512. Feb 14 22:32:45 <ecc3g> but yes they do have mitm stuff with http://
  513. Feb 14 22:32:45 <MTraceur> instead of normally connecting.
  514. Feb 14 22:33:20 <ecc3g> I have to use https:// or openvpn... which luckily they allow
  515. Feb 14 22:34:47 <MTraceur> Huh. http always works fine for me. Probably different towers/other-network-componenets being differently configured in different locations.
  516. Feb 14 22:34:48 <ecc3g> I'd also hate to have to vpn back to my home DSL to get around this skeiron issue... can you access skeiron.org through tmoblile?
  517. Feb 14 22:35:03 <ecc3g> oh, http works fine, but there's a mitm.
  518. Feb 14 22:35:10 <MTraceur> Oh, it's possible we have different plans too.
  519. Feb 14 22:35:21 <ecc3g> that's possible too
  520. Feb 14 22:35:27 <MTraceur> Ah, gotcha.
  521. Feb 14 22:36:08 <MTraceur> Alright, I'm getting offline again. Just wanted to share my joy. I can finally do Council meetings over my own client again, instead of a webclient.
  522. Feb 14 23:21:45 <DocScrutinizer05> OT: anybody could help why kmail-1.9.10 would do this:
  523. Feb 14 23:21:48 <DocScrutinizer05> -rw------- 1 jr users 21813 15. Feb 00:14 jr:@lagrange.cloud-7.de:110
  524. Feb 14 23:21:50 <DocScrutinizer05> -rw------- 1 jr users 35653 14. Feb 23:59 jr:@lagrange.cloud-7.de:110-backup
  525. Feb 14 23:23:05 <kerio> because it hates you
  526. Feb 14 23:23:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I.E. the list of seenUIdList which holds the mails that already got downloaded gets truncated from one download to next one, without any obvious reason
  527. Feb 14 23:24:09 <DocScrutinizer05> the obvious result of that though is that it downloads the meils with those UIDs again on next download
  528. Feb 14 23:31:44 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, seems my local wetware google is lagging: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=185681
  529. Feb 14 23:31:47 <povbot> 04Bug 185681: was not found.
  530. Feb 14 23:33:09 <kerio> for fuck's sake povbot
  531. Feb 14 23:39:07 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway it's pretty scary that this happens on every second mailfetch now, on all 4 pop accounts I got
  532. Feb 14 23:40:00 <DocScrutinizer05> this is a severe PITA
  533. Feb 15 01:14:17 <DocScrutinizer05> on a sidenote: our r.m.o upstream is down to 8.5Mb/s average
  534. Feb 15 01:14:44 <ecc3g> because of throttling or demand went down??
  535. Feb 15 01:15:00 <DocScrutinizer05> quite a difference to the 10fold we seen a few days ago
  536. Feb 15 01:15:09 <DocScrutinizer05> no throttling
  537. Feb 15 01:15:20 <ecc3g> ah.
  538. Feb 15 01:17:31 <ecc3g> any ideas what it was before the downtime?
  539. Feb 15 01:17:46 <robbiethe1st> ?
  540. Feb 15 01:17:53 <DocScrutinizer05> we had >4000 concurrent connections when we ran into throttling of ISP at 25Mb/s and nothing worked for anybody. We went down to ~450 c.c. when upstream got beefed up to 100Mb/s burst. Now we're at 200 c.c.
  541. Feb 15 01:18:23 <DocScrutinizer05> ecc3g: nope, since that been Akamai server farm
  542. Feb 15 01:18:36 <ecc3g> wish they told what to expect
  543. Feb 15 01:18:57 <DocScrutinizer05> We only know from x-fade that there been 30k N900 plus 10k other maemo devices on that server farm
  544. Feb 15 01:19:44 <DocScrutinizer05> eventually we might want to check how many our logs suggest we got now
  545. Feb 15 01:20:08 <ecc3g> how do you check, or just an estimate by ip address?
  546. Feb 15 01:20:15 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
  547. Feb 15 01:20:25 <DocScrutinizer05> not much else we could do
  548. Feb 15 01:20:29 <ecc3g> (like I've connected my phone from a few ip addresses...)
  549. Feb 15 01:21:15 <ecc3g> ah ok, just wonderring if there was an identifier sent or not...
  550. Feb 15 01:21:24 <DocScrutinizer05> we'd check for unique IP during 24h, downloading resp getting header of Packages.gz
  551. Feb 15 01:21:53 <ecc3g> i think redhat 9 made an unique code for each install and used that to identify to its repos. Not sure how debian does it.
  552. Feb 15 01:22:09 <DocScrutinizer05> only very few devices would change IP and then do update again
  553. Feb 15 01:22:45 <DocScrutinizer05> at least I hope that's what HAM does
  554. Feb 15 01:22:51 <ecc3g> I admit I did it a few times from different addresses when it was failing to sync...
  555. Feb 15 01:23:49 <DocScrutinizer05> we can filter out aborted updates - though there shouldn't be any now
  556. Feb 15 01:30:42 <DocScrutinizer05> $ netstat -nt|wc -l
  557. Feb 15 01:30:43 <DocScrutinizer05> 186
  558. Feb 15 01:31:48 <ecc3g> at 8.5MB/sec 186 connections, average of 45KB/sec/user?
  559. Feb 15 01:32:14 <DocScrutinizer05> 5.54Mb/s
  560. Feb 15 01:33:25 <DocScrutinizer05> top 20 run from 900..100kb/s
  561. Feb 15 01:33:27 <ecc3g> oh... whoops wrong unit...5.54Mb/sec is really slow... must be a lot of GSM/2G updates
  562. Feb 15 01:34:14 <DocScrutinizer05> peaks 3.5Mb/s
  563. Feb 15 01:34:47 <DocScrutinizer05> 1s peak
  564. Feb 15 01:35:27 <DocScrutinizer05> 3.80
  565. Feb 15 01:35:40 <DocScrutinizer05> 4.49
  566. Feb 15 01:36:34 <DocScrutinizer05> 40s peak 3.9Mb/s now
  567. Feb 15 01:38:19 <DocScrutinizer05> 220 c.c
  568. Feb 15 01:39:41 <DocScrutinizer05> root@stage:~# netstat -nt|grep -c ESTABLISHED
  569. Feb 15 01:39:42 <DocScrutinizer05> 104
  570. Feb 15 01:46:29 <DocScrutinizer05> oh lol, my karma really suffered during migration ;-P
  571. Feb 15 01:46:40 <DocScrutinizer05> 96
  572. Feb 15 01:47:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess I can't stay on council with this X-P
  573. Feb 15 01:54:04 <DocScrutinizer05> karma defunct - problem with next elections anticipated
  574. Feb 15 01:55:43 <DocScrutinizer05> with my current karma, I wouldn't have been allowed to run for council. And I guess our voters' base is considerably slow right now
  575. Feb 15 01:56:45 <DocScrutinizer05> and the funny stuff: we can't even change the rules since that needs a referendum, and a referendum needs... karma
  576. Feb 15 02:10:18 <merlin1991> yeah, it's the tmo and the wiki conenction that is lost
  577. Feb 15 02:11:28 <merlin1991> for me the wiki karma did a huge dent, I'm down to 34 :D
  578. Feb 15 02:21:54 <SpeedEvil> just fix irc karma
  579. Feb 15 02:33:58 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
  580. Feb 15 02:34:28 <merlin1991> irc karma would be awesome
  581. Feb 15 02:34:29 <DocScrutinizer05> actually that would be as much cheating as not fixing tmo and wiki
  582. Feb 15 02:35:31 <DocScrutinizer05> and I guess finding a semi-decent formula to calculate karma based on IRC is not trivial
  583. Feb 15 02:36:07 <DocScrutinizer05> if the formula shall be reasonable and not give spambots most karma points
  584. Feb 15 02:36:12 <merlin1991> yeah, how do you filter off topic, jokes, cynicsm, unhelpfull stuff, trolls, ....
  585. Feb 15 02:37:15 <DocScrutinizer05> actually I guess the only proper metrics would be "talk threads"
  586. Feb 15 02:37:39 <DocScrutinizer05> number of replies to replies to replies....
  587. Feb 15 02:37:47 <DocScrutinizer05> with a timeout
  588. Feb 15 02:38:47 <SpeedEvil> threading is annoyingly hard
  589. Feb 15 02:39:07 <DocScrutinizer05> 10 virtual points for each reply you gave in a "thread", 5 points for each reply somebody else gave in same thread
  590. Feb 15 02:39:48 <merlin1991> SpeedEvil: threading is easy, getting the friggin stuff in snyc is the problem ;)
  591. Feb 15 02:39:58 <DocScrutinizer05> 2 points for replies B gave to C in a thread where A participated
  592. Feb 15 02:40:53 <DocScrutinizer05> also 2 points for follow-up lines like this one
  593. Feb 15 02:41:13 <DocScrutinizer05> so this
  594. Feb 15 02:41:17 <DocScrutinizer05> would give
  595. Feb 15 02:41:23 <DocScrutinizer05> 6 points
  596. Feb 15 02:41:37 <DocScrutinizer05> not 30
  597. Feb 15 02:41:54 <SpeedEvil> :)
  598. Feb 15 02:42:12 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe even give minus points for more than 8 lines in a row
  599. Feb 15 02:43:59 <DocScrutinizer05> should help against monologues like my usual ones
  600. Feb 15 02:45:02 <DocScrutinizer05> what we definitely will NOT use, is infobot's karma
  601. Feb 15 02:46:25 <DocScrutinizer05> it's tmo thanks storm at it's worst. Rather what could become of tmo thanks when we'd get blame button as well
  602. Feb 15 02:47:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ~karma SpeedEvil
  603. Feb 15 02:47:42 <infobot> speedevil has karma of 1
  604. Feb 15 02:47:57 <DocScrutinizer05> ~karma DocScrutinizer05
  605. Feb 15 02:47:57 <infobot> docscrutinizer05 has neutral karma
  606. Feb 15 02:48:01 <SpeedEvil> :)
  607. Feb 15 02:48:27 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ SpeedEvil++
  608. Feb 15 02:48:33 <DocScrutinizer05> ~karma DocScrutinizer05
  609. Feb 15 02:48:33 <infobot> docscrutinizer05 has neutral karma
  610. Feb 15 02:48:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~karma SpeedEvil
  611. Feb 15 02:48:39 <infobot> speedevil has karma of 1
  612. Feb 15 02:48:42 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm
  613. Feb 15 02:48:46 <SpeedEvil> odd
  614. Feb 15 02:48:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ~SpeedEvil ++
  615. Feb 15 02:49:07 <DocScrutinizer05> ~karma SpeedEvil
  616. Feb 15 02:49:07 <infobot> speedevil has karma of 1
  617. Feb 15 02:49:22 <SpeedEvil> hmm...
  618. Feb 15 02:49:23 <DocScrutinizer05> luckily I even forgot how it works
  619. Feb 15 02:49:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ~++ SpeedEvil
  620. Feb 15 02:49:52 <DocScrutinizer05> ~karma SpeedEvil
  621. Feb 15 02:49:53 <infobot> speedevil has karma of 1
  622. Feb 15 02:50:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ~SpeedEvil++
  623. Feb 15 02:50:46 <SpeedEvil> maybe it's broken.
  624. Feb 15 02:50:53 <DocScrutinizer05> ~karma SpeedEvil
  625. Feb 15 02:50:53 <infobot> speedevil has karma of 2
  626. Feb 15 02:51:05 <SpeedEvil> I recall it working at one point
  627. Feb 15 02:51:12 <SpeedEvil> ah
  628. Feb 15 02:51:26 <merlin1991> and what did it do?
  629. Feb 15 02:51:52 <DocScrutinizer05> nuttin but print "2" now
  630. Feb 15 02:52:03 <merlin1991> so it was just a counter?
  631. Feb 15 02:52:07 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
  632. Feb 15 02:52:15 <merlin1991> ever used?
  633. Feb 15 02:52:24 <DocScrutinizer05> nah
  634. Feb 15 02:52:29 <DocScrutinizer05> usually not
  635. Feb 15 02:52:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ~karma microsoft
  636. Feb 15 02:52:43 <infobot> microsoft has karma of -4
  637. Feb 15 02:53:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ~karma poettering
  638. Feb 15 02:53:20 <infobot> poettering has neutral karma
  639. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Feb 15 02:59:58 2013
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