Ame vs. Corv

Foreword:

These speed arguments sucked. I mean on every fucking level this shit sucked. Little or no evidence for movement speed was ever even posted, with both parties instead trying to pin down their own and each others feats with stupidly precise calcs that ultimately don’t fucking matter. It doesn’t matter if Shang Chi is 3ms or 1ms, he’s clearly still fucking fast in this tier. It doesn’t matter if the distance between Cap and Bucky is 4ft or 2meters, it’s still a good fucking feat. Both parties lobbed antifeats at each other like gorilla’s throwing their own shit while simultaneously pretending that their own antifeats didn’t exist. Ame, you’re going to bring up that Captain America has antifeats when you’re running fucking Batman? Corv, you’re gonna try and claim that Az isn’t consistently fast when you’re using Sabretooth? Your antifeats exist, accept they exist and try to move on. Trying to explain away literally every antifeat you have with extenuating circumstances or retcons or lore arguments is just fucking ass.
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Most of this debate followed around the debaters doing stat comparison, circulating antifeats while trying to explain away their own antifeats, proposing new feats for their team that were downplayed in turn, etcetera etcetera. I find that as such, the best way to judge this is to give my thoughts on each characters standing at the end of the debate.

Batman: Slow as fuck. Don’t care what anyone says, your singular scan of Ra’s saying he’s faster in a sparring match does not protect you from 80 years of antifeats. The esoterics are good and his offense is generally good, but his durability is subpar imo. Shishio one taps and Cap is definitely hitting hard enough to hurt.

Azrael: Pretty fucking good. I find his speed to be relevant enough to fight on par with most of the other people here. The sword kills anyone it connects with other than Cap’s shield. Skill on par with Batman and overall good physicals.

Shang Chi: The bullet feat is good any way you cut it. IDK why both parties spent so much time dissecting this when it seems like at it’s worst, it’s still sufficient to prove he can dodge attacks from pretty much anyone in tier. His striking isn’t great but the nerve strikes and skill make up for it (prove how good Iron Fist and Marvel fighters are if you want scaling above their skill to have meaning though).
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Sabretooth: This character just absolutely isn’t fast. Scaling to an Iron Fist feat 30 years later is sus at best before you add in all the context. X23’s scaling is vague and tagging Nightcrawler once in an extended fight doesn’t mean much to me. As presented, his cutting does very little to the opponents if it even lands, and Spider-Man scaling for durability shows me that he’ll be able to take hits, I don’t see him bricking through the esoteric storm. Ultimately doesn’t add much to the team by being here.

Hydra Cap: Similar problem that Batman had but it’s a bit better here. His striking isn’t fantastic but it’s good enough to be problematic for the team, the shields are good but have unclear travel time or are easily destroyed. I find his speed to be in a similar “can tag other people” area.

Shishio: GOAT. His striking is clearly very good, as is his durability. His speed works well enough to tag other people who are fast and the heat, while iffy on it's in character use, is still a  pretty nice boon.
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With this in mind, the way I think the fight is most likely to go is with Sabretooth and Batman being removed from the fight fairly quickly, neither being durable enough or fast enough to keep up with their opponent. Between the slew of antifeats weighing Batman down, Corv doing an excellent job of casting doubt on Batmans feats themselves, it seems clear that either Cap or Shishio can put him out of commission pretty quickly. Sabretooth on the other hand, just doesn’t have good feats in the first place, and seems very easily disposed of.

So it ultimately comes down to Shishio and Cap vs. Shang Chi and Azrael. Everyone here seems to have ways to one shot the other. Shishio hits hard enough that I doubt Shang and Az can take damage from him. Cap’s striking isn’t enough to one shot by any means, but it’s still good enough to cause problems for the opposition, and between the cutting, heat, etc he definitely has oneshot options. Shang is in a similar spot to me, with somewhat unimpressive striking but nerve strikes that more than make up for it, and Azrael’s sword being pretty much a death sentence for anyone it connects with. I also ultimately think all of these fighters are in the same range of speed. The differences between them are ultimately splitting hairs with speed differentials of only single milliseconds in reaction time. It’s pretty clear that none of them are blitzing each other.

So with both parties able to one shot and both parties being of comparable speed, it ultimately comes down to the more secondary advantages. This is ultimately why I give this to Ame. He sufficiently proved that his team is notably more skilled than the others, and such as never sufficiently refuted. He proved his team is less likely to tire after an extended fight than Corv’s. He showed his team is more likely to be able to damage Shishio and Cap’s weapons than vice versa.

Ame wins.