[04:48:27] <waterpicker> I won't. I don't like causing shitstorms. Just watching the ones that are in progress.
[04:52:15] <FerusGrim> It's not really a situation, anymore. It's just a sensitive topic. TL;DR, EvilSeph has decided to step down (TnT, coincidentally, followed, for family reasons). Mojang, due to this development, has officially taken over the project.
[04:52:30] <FerusGrim> As far as where we go from here, it's just speculation, but we should all hope for the best.
[04:54:15] <waterpicker> Only thing I know was that one day I was looking at the spoutcraft fourms (yes I'm part of that community) and I see a headline 'Bukkit drama -- bring popcorn'. :P
[04:54:30] <FerusGrim> How cute.
[04:54:32] <maldridge> lol
[04:54:41] <@mbaxter> FerusGrim: Nowhere in his post do I see EvilSeph saying he's quitting or stepping down. The post is quite clear on what's happening. Mojang's unveiling and subsequent takeover doesn't mean you can go revisionist and say he stepped down ;)
[04:55:34] <FerusGrim> I never said his intention was to step down. But that /is/ what the end-result ended up being.
[04:55:40] <FerusGrim> actually
[04:55:41] <FerusGrim> I did
[04:55:45] <FerusGrim> Listen to mbaxter
[04:55:47] <FerusGrim> he's intelligent
[04:55:50] <Immortae> lol.
[04:56:43] <waterpicker> Actually I chat with mbaxter alot actually.
[04:56:52] <FerusGrim> cool
[04:57:28] <waterpicker> Yea some the channels he derps on apprently include the spout ones.
[04:58:14] <h0us3cat> you just risked your life
[04:58:30] <waterpicker> Why?
[04:58:43] <h0us3cat> the s word
[04:58:46] <waterpicker> Just because I'm from another community doens't mean I can't have a friendly chat ^^
[04:58:55] <FerusGrim> wat
[04:59:13] <maldridge> would someone mind explaining this apparent split?
[04:59:29] <FerusGrim> There's nothing wrong with _mentioning_ spigot.
[04:59:56] <FerusGrim> Most of the problems that arise where Spigot's involved arise in the #bukkitdev channel.
[05:00:02] <waterpicker> How new are you to the bukkit community FerusGrim?
[05:00:02] <h0us3cat> There is
[05:00:24] <waterpicker> Oh you weren't refering to spout.
[05:00:27] <FerusGrim> o.o;
[05:00:32] * @mbaxter blink
[05:00:40] <FerusGrim> Oh, look, a kitty.
[05:01:41] <@mbaxter> I'm just getting tired of people saying 'stepped down' 'quit' 'resigned' etc when discussing seph.
[05:02:22] <FerusGrim> I hadn't actually meant it to come out that way. I had to look back, actually, to realize that I had.
[05:02:26] <waterpicker> LIke the answer to my question eariler was. Everything is still influx.
[05:02:34] <FerusGrim> Not really, honestly.
[05:02:43] <FerusGrim> The issue resolved the same night it occurred.
[05:03:00] <waterpicker> The aftershocks Ferus
[05:03:12] <FerusGrim> *morning
[05:03:19] <maldridge> so, to clarify my understanding: mojang has owned bukkit for some time now; in light of events that are still not entirely clear EvilSeph stated the bukkit project was being suspended; now things are in flux as 1.8 comes closer and bukkit is... refactoring?
[05:03:53] <waterpicker> 1.8 is gonna be a big one.
[05:03:57] <FerusGrim> Mojang (via Dinnerbone) has assured that Bukkit will be updated alongside Minecraft rel 1.8.
[05:04:08] <Marenwynn> Demoted without questions?
[05:04:19] <FerusGrim> Anything past that, considering it's been made clear Bukkit will still not be the official API, hasn't been made clear.
[05:04:23] <Brokkoli> updating bukkit is one thing... bugfixing, adding api,... another..
[05:04:42] <@mbaxter> maldridge: Relevant paragraph on closure - https://gist.github.com/mbax/122ba11ced0281415521
[05:04:51] <@mbaxter> Anyone confused as to why bukkit was closed, please see the above link
[05:05:47] <maldridge> ah, sounds like what happened to debian many moons ago.  I suspect bukkit will pull through in one piece
[05:05:55] <FerusGrim> Do you?
[05:06:02] <maldridge> yes
[05:06:07] <FerusGrim> Somehow, I doubt it.
[05:06:14] <maldridge> eh, to each his own
[05:06:25] <maldridge> what are the "mappings" that are mentioned?
[05:06:28] <@mbaxter> Subsequent to the post being made and the project closed, Mojang suddenly changed their mind about the degree of support (which was 0) they were providing the project and declared they'd do the 1.8 update. Took over the github repos, removed seph's access, and presumably are working on it. Though after that initial announcement (and a few comments implying seph was somehow 'bored' of bukkit and that was the reason) they've gone radio silent
[05:06:34] <Brokkoli> obfuscation mappings
[05:06:39] <maldridge> I assume they are similar to c++ debug symbols
[05:06:44] <maldridge> ah
[05:06:50] <@mbaxter> (Did that all get through? Message ends on 'silent')
[05:06:57] <FerusGrim> It did.
[05:07:02] <@mbaxter> Neat.
[05:07:06] <waterpicker> They are what the MCP provides for the entire modding community.
[05:07:43] <@mbaxter> Some mojang staffers have made comments implying seph closed the project for reasons other than those stated, which is disappointing but I assume they simply didn't have all the relevant information when writing their messages :) *shrug*
[05:07:47] <maldridge> so previously mojang didn't provide mappings, and now they are going to again for at least as far as 1.8?
[05:08:18] <@mbaxter> They say they're going to do the actual full bukkit update.
[05:08:18] <maldridge> or dinnerbone is actually going to directly contribute code, thus negating the need for mappings
[05:08:23] <FerusGrim> Mojang is, apparently, doing 1.8 on their own.
[05:08:47] <Squidicuz> one would hope..
[05:09:00] <FerusGrim> But, again, past that, the haven't made an assurances.
[05:09:02] <Marenwynn> Did they try to contact Bukkit? Or just demoted Seph without saying anything directly?
[05:09:05] <maldridge> huh, wonder how big of a diff that will be if they just through it all into git as one thing
[05:09:06] <Brokkoli> so mojang kicked seph out of the project?
[05:09:06] <waterpicker> What do you think their overall plan for bukkit is atleast before things return to normal.
[05:09:17] <@mbaxter> Marenwynn: Silence, from what I can tell.
[05:09:35] <@mbaxter> Presumably at this point in time, mojang is having meetings internally to discuss the future of the project they now control, and then there will be some sort of formal announcement soon. :)
[05:09:40] <FerusGrim> And they haven't said a word to Bukkit in the days following the fiasco.
[05:09:51] <FerusGrim> lukegb even updated the post. Mojang never did anything with the edit.
[05:10:01] <FerusGrim> Just left the obnoxious [edited by mojang] shit up.
[05:10:03] <@mbaxter> And so, I encourage peaceful waiting as speculation only makes things worse.
[05:10:09] <maldridge> FerusGrim: would you say something if you were in this situation?
[05:10:17] <@mbaxter> But when I see someone say 'quit' or 'stepped down' my blood pressure goes up a bit :P
[05:10:18] <FerusGrim> Yes?
[05:10:36] <Marenwynn> Did they lock other staff out of doing anything usual? Or was Seph the only one they touched?
[05:10:54] <@mbaxter> FerusGrim: Mojang isn't a couple coders. They're a legal entity and have to figure a bunch of things out. It's a trickier path than, say, me suddenly declaring I'm in charge.
[05:10:58] <maldridge> I side with the peaceful waiting solution.  Then come in with whatever was the "dream solution" that was talked about and play it as though that was the plan all along
[05:11:19] <Marenwynn> Like freeze the repository for only Mojang to touch, or anything like that?
[05:11:25] <@mbaxter> Marenwynn: I can't push to the repos anymore, if that's what you mean. Hopefully just a minor permissions mistake, I'm patient.
[05:11:36] <Squidicuz> .__.
[05:11:43] <FerusGrim> Shit, I didn't know that.
[05:11:49] <maldridge> honestly the git thing could just be a github thing
[05:12:04] <@mbaxter> I think they accidentally deleted the group I was in, no big deal.
[05:12:12] <Brokkoli> whats with the bukkitdev for plugins - did mojang take that too, or who controls that?
[05:12:12] <maldridge> I've been locked from projects before when I ported ownership and *ahem* didn't read the directions
[05:12:25] <@mbaxter> Again, speculation only makes it worse.
[05:12:36] <Squidicuz> ^^^
[05:13:22] <@mbaxter> So, for now we should just patiently wait for them to get things handled.