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  1. <@K> At the very least, be civil about it, instead of attacking people.
  2. [19:39] <~Momiji> if you came here just to troll then go elsewhere
  3. [19:39] <anon> Is qian and Kun different enough to earn the different names? The just come from the elements right?
  4. [19:40] <Rion> Saying that an awkward translation sounds stupid is not trolling.
  5. [19:40] <~Momiji> :V
  6. [19:40] <anon> I'm also going to agree with Rion with this. Even people here though Yuugi's old title was stupid.
  7. [19:40] <Rion> There are better ways to word that and Tosiaki and stubbornly refused to accept them.
  8. [19:40] <Conq> There's a slight difference apparently, but seeing as the article now says "Kun (坤) is the "earth" of bagua" I think it's okay
  9. [19:41] <Conq> *and qian is the sky etc
  10. [19:41] <anon> But on the other pages it just uses Kun, People don't know what that means in the Sympoisum article.
  11. [19:42] <anon> They are rather close so is the distiction really worth it? I gave me a bit of confusion so I'd say no.
  12. [19:42] <Conq> Which other page?
  13. [19:42] <Conq> Oh, symposium articles
  14. [19:42] <Ibaraki_Ibuki> @Rion: We all are trying our best to negotiate with Tosiaki; you should do the same
  15. [19:42] <@K> It is definitely understandable that these edits have left a negative impression on readers both new and old, and it is definitely understandable that the entire situation has been quite tumultuous
  16. [19:43] <@K> But please, don't just go "this sounds stupid and <editor> is dumb"
  17. [19:43] <anon> I think the wrong term is being prominitly
  18. [19:43] <Conq> "Negotiate with Tosiaki" leaves the impression he has more power than any of us, which is incorrect. He's just more...stubborn
  19. [19:43] <~Momiji> ahaa~ there we go
  20. [19:43] <anon> air and earth are more understandable. They should be used in symposium and the like
  21. [19:43] <Conq> anon: can you link me to the articles you're talking about? Just want to see the context
  22. [19:44] <anon> if qun and whatever are really needed they can say on the character page.
  23. [19:44] <anon> http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Kanako_Yasaka
  24. [19:44] <Rion> "Negotiate"?
  25. [19:44] <Keine-tan> Title: Symposium of Post-mysticism/Kanako Yasaka - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more (at en.touhouwiki.net)
  26. [19:44] <Rion> Why do you need to "negotiate"?
  27. [19:44] <Rion> Jesus, he's only one user.
  28. [19:44] <@K> And I am only one user as well.
  29. [19:44] <@K> And so are you.
  30. [19:44] <anon> http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Suwako_Moriya
  31. [19:44] <Keine-tan> Title: Symposium of Post-mysticism/Suwako Moriya - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more (at en.touhouwiki.net)
  32. [19:44] <anon> When I see those ablities. I don't know what they are talking about
  33. [19:45] <Conq> Okay, fair enough.
  34. [19:45] <anon> I shouldn't need to go to wikipedia and look those up.
  35. [19:45] <Patchouli-Knowledge> the readers are one user too apparently
  36. [19:45] <Conq> Personally I like the "Ability to the extent of creating Qian (sky)" approach but I dunno
  37. [19:45] <Rion> Yes, we are one user, but there are more of us who share the same opinion than those who share the same opinion as Tosiaki.
  38. [19:45] <~Momiji> whoo boy
  39. [19:46] <Rion> If multiple people complain about Tosiaki's awkward translation and he's the only one who supports it, there should be no question that it needs to be changed.
  40. [19:46] <anon> An english user would understand sky more than "Qian" though.
  41. [19:46] <@K> I agree with anon.
  42. [19:46] <@K> An English translation should be just that, an English translation.
  43. [19:46] <Drake> I agree, although I think the wording can be tweaked.
  44. [19:47] <Conq> What tweaks are you thinking of?
  45. [19:47] <~Momiji> yes, more tweaking
  46. [19:47] <Drake> I'm not sure, I'm thinking lol
  47. [19:47] <~Momiji> more tweaking that will last for another couple of months
  48. [19:47] <Drake> Hey, that's not what I meant.
  49. [19:47] <~Momiji> we ~still~ haven't finalized on '程度の能力'
  50. [19:48] <Conq> I thought like everyone agreed on "capable of" :P
  51. [19:48] <~Momiji> i just see this whole thing going into an endless spiral
  52. [19:48] <anon> That's why a stand needs to be made Momiji.
  53. [19:49] <Drake> I don't mean that either.
  54. [19:49] <~Momiji> you forget, this whole encompassing issue predates toshiaki
  55. [19:49] <~Momiji> he just uh, was 'energetic' in trying to deal with it
  56. [19:49] <Conq> From the conversations here and elsewhere I got the impression that "capable of" was good enough and the present translation was clunky enough that we could switch to it at least temporarily, although correct me if I'm wrong
  57. [19:49] <~Momiji> i guess
  58. [19:50] <anon> Well I mean in reguards to how things are set up/formatted.
  59. [19:50] <anon> not like "drive out the devil" stand
  60. [19:50] <Patchouli-Knowledge> Okay, so what's being discussed right now?
  61. [19:50] <anon> E.G at what point should changes be brought to the talbe. Or fixed at disgresion.
  62. [19:51] <~Momiji> i don't care how it ends up, i care if it's gone through the correct process and it's accurate and it's informative
  63. [19:51] <anon> Also what's the concensious on this :http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/User:Nazeo/Color_Codes/Blind_Cirno_Translation
  64. [19:51] <Keine-tan> Title: User:Nazeo/Color Codes/Blind Cirno Translation - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more (at en.touhouwiki.net)
  65. [19:51] <Patchouli-Knowledge> useless
  66. [19:51] <Drake> Can we stick to one thing right now
  67. [19:51] <~Momiji> i try not to stick my nose into content debates, but through this process i've had to do so several times, and quite a lot of it with toshiaki
  68. [19:51] <@K> what is this
  69. [19:52] <Patchouli-Knowledge> I asked before, what are we talking about right now
  70. [19:52] <~Momiji> so i'm a bit torn
  71. [19:52] <@K> If you would like to discuss Kanako and Suwako's SoPM translations right now, please do so.
  72. [19:52] <~Momiji> personally i don't care about using japanese terms for stuff
  73. [19:53] <~Momiji> but i was adamant with toshi that they not be used without describing them fully
  74. [19:53] <~Momiji> so people don't look at them and go 'wtf is this?'
  75. [19:53] <Drake> Do we have rollovers?
  76. [19:53] <anon> I think using the japanese term is confusing. People don't always know japanese. I looked at them and went "wtf is this?"
  77. [19:53] <Kapow> for 程度の能力 how about "the capacity to"?
  78. [19:53] <Drake> no stop that, one thing at a time
  79. [19:54] <~Momiji> Kapow: yeah that's an example
  80. [19:54] <Patchouli-Knowledge> do i have to keep asking what the topic is right now
  81. [19:54] <Conq> Drake: yeah we do
  82. [19:54] <Patchouli-Knowledge> is it the SoPM translations or capability/capacity or what
  83. [19:54] == Bel [~rn@qq-93DB81B0.keble.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout]
  84. [19:54] <~Momiji> it's about toshiaki in general
  85. [19:54] <~Momiji> and translations in general
  86. [19:54] <@K> Translation overall
  87. [19:54] <@K> So it seems.
  88. [19:55] <Drake> I think a nice way would be to capitalize Heaven and Earth, and rollover to "Qian, the bla bla of the Ba'gua"
  89. [19:55] <Patchouli-Knowledge> Tosiaki avoids the process and enacts changes without consent multiple times before
  90. [19:55] == Nazeo [~Crest@qq-64B56BAE.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout]
  91. [19:55] <~Momiji> right and i've told him about that
  92. [19:55] <Conq> (see the music themes for an example of the current rollovers)
  93. [19:55] <Patchouli-Knowledge> and he still does it
  94. [19:55] <Rion> If Tosiaki is a problem child then take away hsi right to edit.
  95. [19:56] == Nazeo [~Crest@qq-64B56BAE.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #touhouwiki
  96. [19:56] <Patchouli-Knowledge> It would be nice if he knew that other people not named Tosiaki actually have an opinion
  97. [19:56] <anon> Oh well if it is translation in general that link I posted is revelent. People wanting to double the translations. Which I think is a little silly.Just don't want to see a bunch of big changes happen from it.
  98. [19:56] <Kapow> oh he knows, they're just all wrong
  99. [19:57] <Ibaraki_Ibuki> I'm pretty sure he listens; it's just that he may misunderstand quite frequently and he's often rash
  100. [19:57] <Patchouli-Knowledge> Yes, he is only one user, that's the proble, it's not a change that everyone agreed to, it was a change dictated by one user alone and I assume the wiki is a colloboration project where people usually agree on stuff first so it doesn't devolve into edit wars.
  101. [19:57] <@K> Momiji: just curious. How many times has Tosiaki circumvented the editing feedback process after being lectured about it?
  102. [19:57] <~Momiji> i wasn't exactly counting
  103. [19:57] <~Momiji> hmmm
  104. [19:57] == T was kicked from #touhouwiki by Momiji [wake up]
  105. [19:57] == anon_ [webchat@qq-38E87529.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #touhouwiki
  106. [19:57] == T_ was kicked from #touhouwiki by Momiji [wake up]
  107. [19:57] == T___ was kicked from #touhouwiki by Momiji [wake up]
  108. [19:58] <Kapow> why does he keep removing the abilities from the character box?
  109. [19:58] <anon> Well when I talked to Tosiaki he claimed we shouldn't change his edits without a large consenious. Which is odd because he ignores that.
  110. [19:58] <~Momiji> i know the first time i probated him he pmed me on twitter, direct to my phone
  111. [19:58] == Ataisai [webchat@qq-6F19206D.tmodns.net] has joined #touhouwiki
  112. [19:58] <Drake> Yes, that is one problem.
  113. [19:58] <~Momiji> Kapow: we've been talking about that
  114. [19:58] <Patchouli-Knowledge> atai if you're here for Tosi we just kicked him to make sure he wakes up
  115. [19:59] <Drake> There is almost a uniform double standard he takes, which is the major source of most of his bad decisions.
  116. [19:59] <Drake> Even if it's been addressed, he hasn't changed much in that respect.
  117. [19:59] <Rion> It's probably because he has Asperger's. Not even trying to insult him, but his behavior certainly seems to be a sign.
  118. [20:00] <Drake> I can tell he's trying to listen to other people, though.
  119. [20:00] <@K> How wonderfully blunt, once again.
  120. [20:00] <@K> :V
  121. [20:00] == Nazeo has changed nick to Nazeo_Aelko_Nezen
  122. [20:00] <Kapow> it's very hard to change his mind about anything
  123. [20:01] <anon> ^ Quite.
  124. [20:01] <@K> I will say this: Tosiaki's underlying idea is right, translations SHOULD be accurate. The execution of this idea, however, has been anything but smooth and painless.
  125. [20:01] <Drake> Precisely.
  126. [20:01] <Kapow> they should be accurate up to a point
  127. [20:01] <@K> Readability is also important.
  128. [20:01] <Kapow> no translation can be 100% accurate, you have to draw the line somewhere
  129. [20:02] <Ataisai> Accuracy should not be achieved at the expense of clarity or sense.
  130. [20:02] <Drake> Yes, that as well.
  131. [20:02] == C27 [~C27@qq-1365CB9B.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #touhouwiki
  132. [20:02] <Drake> At the very least, perfect accuracy should not be a kill-all argument against a given translation if it otherwise is valid.
  133. [20:02] == Imosa [webchat@A588D917.CAC4B22D.198E5D03.IP] has quit [Ping timeout]
  134. [20:02] <@K> It is important to remember that the English Touhou Wiki is a wiki for English-speaking Touhou fans. (boy, I don't know why I have to say something as redundant as this, but...)
  135. [20:03] <~Momiji> well this has been irritating
  136. [20:03] <~Momiji> i'll be waiting for my phone to wake me up tonight
  137. [20:03] <@K> Naturally, having readable English content is important. Knowing Japanese is a nice bonus, but it should be just that: a bonus.
  138. [20:03] <Kapow> for simple things like one-liners about character abilities, it should be clear and short english that can be understood with no context
  139. [20:04] <@K> Not a pre-requisite for reading the wiki.
  140. [20:04] <Kapow> any specific details can be covered on the character profile
  141. [20:04] <anon> Right after the Yuugi discussion here. This happened an hour later http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Yuugi_Hoshiguma I'm not sure why people would want her to be called "The spoken of anomalies, strength, disorder, and spirit"
  142. [20:04] <Keine-tan> Title: Talk:Yuugi Hoshiguma - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more (at en.touhouwiki.net)
  143. [20:04] <Drake> Choja brought that up with me just earlier
  144. [20:04] <Kapow> yeah, that is a figure of speech that he's translating literally, which is actually losing the real meaning
  145. [20:04] <Kapow> it's just plain incorrect
  146. [20:05] <Ibaraki_Ibuki> apparently, it's to preserve a reference to Confucius
  147. [20:05] <Drake> I had gone in and touched up some wording, but I completely disregarded the actual name.
  148. [20:05] <Kapow> the reference to confucius should be explained on her profile
  149. [20:05] <Drake> Yes, it is a confucius thing, but the fact remains that despite the ability being explained in the section, the ability name wasn't changed
  150. [20:05] <Ibaraki_Ibuki> fair enough
  151. [20:06] <Drake> It used to be "Unexplainable phenomenon", correct?
  152. [20:06] <anon> 馬鹿 is the characters horse, deer. It comes from the chinese saying of "To see a horse and call it a deer" But you wouldn't put that next to each use of "baka".
  153. [20:06] <Kapow> a one-line summary of her ability should be simple and understandable without having to go looking up things on wikipedia
  154. [20:06] <Drake> yes i think that's understood
  155. [20:06] <Drake> Well, Yuugi is a bit problematic in that regard
  156. [20:06] <~Momiji> anon: that wasn't exactly the point of this exercise
  157. [20:07] <~Momiji> and why i think this whole thing is a potential endless spiral
  158. [20:07] <Drake> Since her ability has no explanation so f- wait was her ability expanded on in Post-Myst?
  159. [20:07] <anon> The troublesome word was being translated buy its origin. Rather than it's own meaning.
  160. [20:07] <Kapow> english doesn't have a term that means "this specific thing confucious said once", so it can't really be translated directly, you need a translator's note
  161. [20:08] <Kapow> which in this case is the ability section on her profile
  162. [20:08] <Drake> The way I understood it was that it's impossible to explain Yuugi's ability to wield unexplainable phenomena, and it hasn't been otherwise expanded on.
  163. [20:08] <Kapow> people can get the general idea from the one-line summary, and go to her profile if they want to know more details
  164. [20:09] <anon> Well the word itself wasn't said by confucious it was created from a saying he had. Like 馬鹿 was made from a saying too.
  165. [20:10] <Drake> Yes. Our point is that it was explained, and we know that the one-liner should be changed to something easy-to-understand.
  166. [20:11] == Ataisai [webchat@qq-6F19206D.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout]
  167. [20:11] <anon> Sounds good.
  168. [20:12] <Drake> I would like to know if there's an agreement to change the one-liner back to something like "The capability to wield unexplainable phenomena", and add the link from "unexplainable phenomena" to "whatever confucius said" in the paragraph.
  169. [20:12] <Kapow> you mean put the link in the ability line?
  170. [20:13] <Drake> I've been intending to do that, yes (i don't know how that's formatted though)
  171. [20:13] <Ibaraki_Ibuki> note or reference should do fine
  172. [20:13] <Kapow> the thing is, that appears at least 4 times throughout the wiki, are you going to put links in all of them?
  173. [20:13] <Patchouli-Knowledge> what appears four times?
  174. [20:13] <Drake> the short phrase.
  175. [20:13] <Kapow> I think just putting it on her profile is fine
  176. [20:13] <Patchouli-Knowledge> oh, it should be in just on her profile
  177. [20:13] <Kapow> that's where people would look to find out more
  178. [20:13] <Patchouli-Knowledge> if readers want to
  179. [20:13] <Patchouli-Knowledge> exactly
  180. [20:14] <Patchouli-Knowledge> I assume that some of our editors think our readers are braindead
  181. [20:14] <Patchouli-Knowledge> maybe
  182. [20:14] <Drake> People are going to find her character page much more easily than they would finding the other odd pages with the phrase in it.
  183. [20:14] <Drake> they'll get to the paragraph first, in any case.
  184. [20:14] <Kapow> I think "capacity" is better than "capability", it carries the implication of measurement, so it's closer to the original implied meaning
  185. [20:15] == Imosa [webchat@A588D917.CAC4B22D.198E5D03.IP] has joined #touhouwiki
  186. [20:15] <Drake> Can we discuss that when we're done with this first
  187. [20:15] <Drake> i realize that's a thing right now but hang on
  188. [20:15] <Kapow> sounds like we're all in agreement on that
  189. [20:15] <anon> Just having the explaination in Yuugi's article and the rest being "unexplainable phenomena" right? ^
  190. [20:15] <Patchouli-Knowledge> Yes
  191. [20:16] <Kapow> yep
  192. [20:16] <Drake> okay brb
  193. [20:16] <Patchouli-Knowledge> If the reader wants to find out more about Yuugi's ability, they go to Yuugi's page.
  194. [20:16] <Patchouli-Knowledge> That is simple enough.
  195. [20:16] <Patchouli-Knowledge> really would love to stop the overcomplicating stuff
  196. [20:16] <@K> Links and tooltips
  197. [20:16] <Drake> Yeah, I had figured that adding links would be helpful, but that would be a shitton of work.
  198. [20:17] <@K> They're wonderful ways to provide additional information to those who are interested
  199. [20:17] <@K> While keeping the article text simple.
  200. [20:17] <Kapow> tooltips maybe
  201. [20:17] <Patchouli-Knowledge> verifying the latest edits, simplifies! that's nice
  202. [20:17] <anon> The Symoposium article links to her profile anyway. So the ability doesn't really need it's own link there.
  203. [20:18] == Kagami_is_out [~Kagami@qq-6F19206D.tmodns.net] has joined #touhouwiki
  204. [20:18] <Kapow> we don't want to end up with a good percentage of the abilities having links in them every time they appear
  205. [20:18] == Kagami_is_out has changed nick to mini_Kagami
  206. [20:18] == mini_Kagami has changed nick to Ataisai
  207. [20:18] <Kapow> it's excessive
  208. [20:18] <Kapow> lots of abilities need further explanation to cover all the details
  209. [20:19] <Kapow> as long as people know there's an "ability" section on the character profiles, they'll just look there
  210. [20:19] <Drake> Yes, I think that suggestion was made, or at least was taken note of
  211. [20:20] <Drake> I couldn't really tell people to go make an ability section for every character without them wanting to explain the abilities though
  212. [20:20] <Kapow> I thought most of them had one anyway
  213. [20:20] <Drake> and there's no way i could do that myself, even if i'd like to
  214. [20:21] == Imosa [webchat@A588D917.CAC4B22D.198E5D03.IP] has quit [Ping timeout]
  215. [20:21] <Kapow> if there's nothing to add, then they don't need one I guess
  216. [20:21] <Drake> They were at some point, excerpts from their dic.nico pages, I think
  217. [20:21] <Kapow> and if someone wants to put more details, they put it in that section instead of cramming it into the one-line summary
  218. [20:22] <Kapow> it's just a way of sorting the information
  219. [20:22] <Patchouli-Knowledge> There you go, an agreement. Do all of you like this?
  220. [20:22] <Patchouli-Knowledge> Well, all of you who are alive at least.
  221. [20:22] <anon> Seems fine to me.
  222. [20:22] <Drake> As long as we have the manpower to put Ability sections into action, I'm completely for it.
  223. [20:22] <@K> Details about an ability belong in that character's main article page, yes.
  224. [20:23] <~Momiji> yes
  225. [20:23] <@K> They do not belong in the translation for SoPM's text
  226. [20:23] <Kapow> I'm not sure why you think there's extra work involved in having a section for further details, if those details don't exist then don't worry about it
  227. [20:24] <@K> A fair amount of characters have their own Ability section already, do they not?
  228. [20:24] == anon_ [webchat@qq-38E87529.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
  229. [20:24] <Drake> I'm not a frequent editor; I don't know how much work it takes to implement anything that isn't small.
  230. [20:25] <anon> Yuugi and momizi I know do. As the abilities moved from the infoboxes. They might need better wording though.
  231. [20:25] <Kapow> it's not like "we need to go and explain all the characters' abilities", it's "this section is where this kind of information goes"
  232. [20:25] <Kapow> it's just a standard of organization
  233. [20:25] <@K> Personally, I'm not a fan of the neutering of the infobox.
  234. [20:25] <Drake> alright, now we can move to the infobox ability thing.
  235. [20:25] <Kapow> yes, the ability summary definitely goes in the infobox
  236. [20:25] <@K> (hey cool good segue)
  237. [20:25] <Patchouli-Knowledge> purposes for what purposes is
  238. [20:26] <Ataisai> Oh
  239. [20:26] <Ataisai> before you do
  240. [20:26] <Kapow> I can't believe there's even a question about that
  241. [20:26] <Ataisai> I'd just like to say thank you to whoever fixed the Tewi page.
  242. [20:26] <@K> I dunno, some users seemed to think that removing information from the INFObox would be a good idea
  243. [20:26] <Drake> As far as I've followed, the people against having the phrase in the infobox is that it would already be in the paragraph for it.
  244. [20:27] <Kapow> users besides tosiaki?
  245. [20:27] <Drake> yes
  246. [20:27] <@K> Yes, actually.
  247. [20:27] <Drake> enough that it's been considered
  248. [20:27] <anon> I did see others dicuss it. I think he was the only one to start moving them though.
  249. [20:27] <~Momiji> yes
  250. [20:27] <Ataisai> Please de-consider it. I'm baffled as to why people would want it gone.
  251. [20:27] <~Momiji> the idea of removing it from the infobox
  252. [20:27] <Kapow> well, the information is already duplicated in the translated profiles
  253. [20:28] <Ataisai> aerodynamic efficiency?
  254. [20:28] <Kapow> I don't think duplicating it is really a big deal
  255. [20:28] <Patchouli-Knowledge> Keep it.
  256. [20:28] <~Momiji> yes
  257. [20:28] <~Momiji> that's exactly it
  258. [20:28] <Kapow> the infobox should be all the basic information, whether it's elsewhere or not
  259. [20:28] <@K> Duplication is not a problem.
  260. [20:28] <@K> The purpose of an infobox is to provide a quick overview of basic character information.
  261. [20:28] <Drake> Personally, while I don't care either way, I see no actual benefit to removing what's already there.
  262. [20:29] <~Momiji> i don't want to have this conversation ~again~
  263. [20:29] <@K> Information that can be accessed at-a-glance.
  264. [20:29] <@K> This information would also be in the article itself.
  265. [20:29] <Ataisai> Besides, given the nature of Touhou, and how everyone has a special unique ability, shouldn't that be one of the things that deserves to be in there?
  266. [20:29] <Kapow> the only way these conversations will end is if a consensus is formed and enforced
  267. [20:30] <@K> It seems awfully wasteful to cut information out of the infobox on the grounds that "it's already in the article text"
  268. [20:30] <~Momiji> Ataisai: because it's not exactly 'confirmed'
  269. [20:30] <~Momiji> which augh this is going in circles
  270. [20:30] <Kapow> confirmed?
  271. [20:30] <Patchouli-Knowledge> Just leave it in there, that's the simple solution.
  272. [20:30] <Patchouli-Knowledge> It's just a phrase, there's no benefit to taking it out so there you go.
  273. [20:30] <Kapow> the abilities are directly from the profiles ZUN writes
  274. [20:30] <Kapow> there's nothing to confirm
  275. [20:31] <~Momiji> no, the point of removing it was to remove Infobox Character from the 'abilities' debate
  276. [20:31] <@K> In some misguided attempt at solving the issue.
  277. [20:31] <Conq> The point of removing them was to bypass the wording debate
  278. [20:31] <Kapow> ah, I figured that was it
  279. [20:31] <@K> "We can't come up with a short and accurate translation? Just remove it from the infobox!"
  280. [20:31] <Patchouli-Knowledge> Which we can get to it later or now?
  281. [20:31] <@K> "...what"
  282. [20:31] <Kapow> insane reasoning
  283. [20:31] <Conq> well it's in the article anyway so :shrug:
  284. [20:31] <@K> Crazy, I know, but I've seen it!
  285. [20:31] <@K> I've seen it with my own eyes!
  286. [20:31] <Patchouli-Knowledge> well, since we're talking about it, we can get to kapow's issue now, right?
  287. [20:31] <~Momiji> because you end up with 'ability blahblah to blahblah blagh blagh, ability to blahgblagh and blathadgkvaaf, abilaglfdgaaaaa'
  288. [20:32] <~Momiji> and it keeps going and going and going the longer the string gets
  289. [20:32] <@K> Momiji: yes, which looks awfully repetitive and clunky
  290. [20:33] <Kapow> honestly I'm for leaving out the "capability/capacity/extent" stuff in the infobox
  291. [20:33] <Ataisai> Well, if you've got a long, long ability string, that might be the problem you'd want to examine. But it sounds like you're all already painfully aware of that, so yeah.
  292. [20:33] <~Momiji> yeah
  293. [20:33] <Kapow> just because it's phrased that way by ZUN doesn't mean we have to always phrase it that way in translations
  294. [20:33] <~Momiji> and then we don't have to think about how the string will look in the infobox
  295. [20:33] <~Momiji> frankly we're kinda getting over the abilities issue
  296. [20:34] <~Momiji> it's in it's own separate page that explains that whole mess
  297. [20:34] <~Momiji> it's it's it's
  298. [20:34] <@K> Capable of: Stopping time, throwing knives, being the perfect elegant maid
  299. [20:34] <Drake> Were we coming towards "The capability to X" or "Capable of X? I think almost everyone I've spoken to has accepted it so far.
  300. [20:34] <~Momiji> that's fine
  301. [20:35] <Kapow> maybe translate it in the profiles as "the capacity to manipulate X" and in the infobox just have "manipulate X"
  302. [20:35] <~Momiji> i don't care what it concludes to, just that it concludes to something
  303. [20:35] <~Momiji> http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Characters/Abilities don't forget to update this
  304. [20:35] <Keine-tan> Title: Characters/Abilities - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more (at en.touhouwiki.net)
  305. [20:35] <Patchouli-Knowledge> or just do "Abilities: x, y and z" in the infobox for simplicity
  306. [20:35] <Conq> good man drake >_>b
  307. [20:35] <Patchouli-Knowledge> and use capacity in the detailed explanation to the left
  308. [20:35] <~Momiji> forget the infobox
  309. [20:35] <@K> From what I've seen on the MotK thread, capability/capable has gained favor with a majority of the posters
  310. [20:35] <Kapow> yeah, that's what I'm saying
  311. [20:35] <Drake> Alright, so K, were you aware of the distinction made between the two?
  312. [20:35] <Kapow> K: have they considered capacity?
  313. [20:36] <Drake> yes that was considered a while ago
  314. [20:36] <@K> There was a huuuuuge list of pretty much every suggestion made
  315. [20:36] <@K> Which then got even huuuuuuuuger later on
  316. [20:36] <Drake> i think it's best if we keep it to this and nail it.
  317. [20:36] <~Momiji> yeah
  318. [20:36] <Drake> [22:35] <Drake> Alright, so K, were you aware of the distinction made between the two?
  319. [20:36] <~Momiji> i can't count how many different iterations and permutations we had
  320. [20:36] <Kapow> the two what
  321. [20:36] <Kapow> capability or capable?
  322. [20:36] <Drake> yes
  323. [20:36] <Patchouli-Knowledge> capacity and capability
  324. [20:36] <Patchouli-Knowledge> or that
  325. [20:37] <@K> I don't recall the fine details of it, but I could probably check up on the thread.
  326. [20:37] <Kapow> "the capability to" or "capable of"
  327. [20:37] <Kapow> which will affect the conjugation after it
  328. [20:37] <@K> ...and then I accidentally click on the SoPM thread. good going me :V
  329. [20:37] <Ataisai> ...I kinda like the second.
  330. [20:37] <Patchouli-Knowledge> @dict time
  331. [20:37] <Keine-tan> Patchouli-Knowledge: wn: time n 1: an instance or single occasion for some event; "this time he succeeded"; "he called four times"; "he could do ten at a clip" [syn: {time}, {clip}] 2: a period of time considered as a resource under your control and sufficient to accomplish something; "take time to smell the roses"; "I didn't have time to finish"; "it took more than half my time" 3: an indefinite period (5 more messages)
  332. [20:37] <Kapow> "the capability to manipulate fate" "capable of manipulating fate"
  333. [20:37] <Patchouli-Knowledge> whoops
  334. [20:37] <Patchouli-Knowledge> holy shit keine's here?
  335. [20:37] <Patchouli-Knowledge> didn't notice that
  336. [20:37] <@K> Of course.
  337. [20:37] <@K> Keine is with you always.
  338. [20:38] <Ataisai> "Capable of manipulating time."
  339. [20:38] <Ataisai> bam
  340. [20:38] <Ataisai> clean, simple, concise
  341. [20:38] <Patchouli-Knowledge> I didn't notice her since she didn't have hop or op
  342. [20:38] <Patchouli-Knowledge> sorry about tha
  343. [20:38] <Kapow> the latter is shorter, and it makes it easier to remove it for the infobox
  344. [20:38] <@K> Drake: this? http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12464.msg823543.html#msg823543
  345. [20:38] <Kapow> "ability: manipulating fate" in the infobox, and "capable of manipulating fate" otherwise
  346. [20:38] <Keine-tan> Title: Semi-major revision on an important facet of the official materials - Need Input (at www.shrinemaiden.org)
  347. [20:38] <@K> Reading right now.
  348. [20:40] <Drake> The difference is just a matter of precise translation and rhetoric
  349. [20:40] <Drake> "the ability is something they possess, so the 'capability to' makes sense"
  350. [20:40] <Ataisai> ...what
  351. [20:40] <Drake> sorry, that was worded badly
  352. [20:41] <Patchouli-Knowledge> Simplicity.
  353. [20:41] <Kapow> the issues is trying to make it mesh with putting "ability:" in front of it
  354. [20:41] <Drake> Yes.
  355. [20:41] <Ataisai> ah.
  356. [20:41] <Drake> It's just a parsing issue
  357. [20:41] <@K> Are we sticking with "Ability:" as the header for that section of the infobox?
  358. [20:41] <Patchouli-Knowledge> yes, that works fine
  359. [20:41] <Kapow> the thing is, the whole point of including this is to replicate the odd phrasing ZUN uses, so it's going to look odd
  360. [20:41] <@K> I thought this whole issue started BECAUSE someone deemed "Ability:" inadequate.
  361. [20:41] <Patchouli-Knowledge> Right now I'm thinking "Do regular readers really care about the intricacies of what ZUN said? Get to the point."
  362. [20:42] <Ataisai> No
  363. [20:42] <Ataisai> No the hell they do not.
  364. [20:42] <Kapow> if you don't want it to look odd then we can just leave the whole damn thing out
  365. [20:42] <Patchouli-Knowledge> If they want to, they go into another page to find the intricacies
  366. [20:42] <Patchouli-Knowledge> the abilities page
  367. [20:42] <Kapow> considering that it's on EVERY touhou ability, and would have to be replicated on every ability everywhere, I think just explaining this on the abilities page would be better
  368. [20:42] <Ibaraki_Ibuki> i do like learning about these curious intricacies, but now I'm wondering whether we should have left it untranslated
  369. [20:43] <Kapow> and not trying to keep it in the translation
  370. [20:43] <Drake> "Her ability is the capability of manipulating fate" vs "Her ability is that she is capable of manipulating fate"
  371. [20:43] <Drake> or something along those lines.
  372. [20:43] <Kapow> "Her ability is manipulating fate"
  373. [20:43] <Kapow> "Ability: Manipulation of fate"
  374. [20:43] <Kapow> remember when it said that?
  375. [20:43] <C27> I'd go with whatever gets the point across with the fewest words.
  376. [20:43] == Conq [~Conq@qq-253E5BFF.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout]
  377. [20:43] <Kapow> that was perfect
  378. [20:43] <Kapow> let's go back to that
  379. [20:44] <C27> yeah
  380. [20:44] <~Momiji> =|
  381. [20:44] <C27> Readability and conciseness is important
  382. [20:44] <Patchouli-Knowledge> If the reason to reject that is "it sounds ambigous", it fulfills that purpose doesn't it
  383. [20:44] <Patchouli-Knowledge> hehe
  384. [20:44] <C27> the wiki is too cluttered and messy IMO
  385. [20:44] <C27> I... ehhhh.
  386. [20:45] <Patchouli-Knowledge> You have an entire description to describe how the ability works anyways
  387. [20:45] <Kapow> all this capability stuff can be explained somewhere else, it's not important enough to try to replicate an odd japanese phrasing into an odd english phrasing
  388. [20:45] <Patchouli-Knowledge> you don't need to make the phrase any bigger
  389. [20:45] <C27> I don't want to do anything without an agreement with multiple people first
  390. [20:45] <anon> I'm fine with that. The goofy vague thing can stay as a discription on the ability page for those interested in learning about the ablities at large.
  391. [20:46] <Drake> Personally I'm still one for the capability wording.
  392. [20:46] <Ataisai> I'd also like to point out that if it /were/ made mandatory that you include zun's awkward phrasing in how you stated the ability, it would then become more of a formality than any actual preservation of-- or indication of --some special meaning. And then there would no longer be any point in having it anyway, since everyone would just sort of skip over it and not bother taking it into account.
  393. [20:46] <Ataisai> I'm probably very late in stating that, but it only now occurred to me.
  394. [20:47] <@K> For the purposes of the infobox: I am perfectly fine with something like this:
  395. [20:47] <@K> Capable of: (or Capablility: if that's how you swing)
  396. [20:47] <@K> <unadorned ability-- er, capability>
  397. [20:47] <@K> <unadorned capability>
  398. [20:47] <@K> <etc>
  399. [20:47] == Patchwork [webchat@qq-50135641.unl.edu] has joined #touhouwiki
  400. [20:47] <Patchouli-Knowledge> Hello Patch.
  401. [20:47] <Ataisai> heh.
  402. [20:47] <Patchouli-Knowledge> ahaha
  403. [20:47] <Patchouli-Knowledge> i don't think i should masquerade with this name then for the time being
  404. [20:47] == Patchouli-Knowledge has changed nick to Choja
  405. [20:47] == glasnost [JunKawada@qq-85A93781.gdcb.iastate.edu] has joined #touhouwiki
  406. [20:47] <Patchwork> Hello.
  407. [20:47] <glasnost> hi
  408. [20:48] <Choja> Patch~ glas~
  409. [20:48] <Patchwork> Choja~
  410. [20:48] <glasnost> choja~
  411. [20:48] <Drake> I almost like keeping the Ability: there just as it's been that way forever, iunno.
  412. [20:48] <~Momiji> so who else are we getting here =|
  413. [20:48] <Choja> Anyways, yeah right now we're on the ability topic
  414. [20:48] <@K> For the purposes of the ==Abilities== section in the article, I am perfectly fine with crazy detailed explanations of the nuances of each ability, so long as each ability starts off with the ability name (like the one used in the infobox) bolded for emphasis and readability
  415. [20:48] <Kapow> that's fine
  416. [20:48] <@K> Any naysayers?
  417. [20:48] <Choja> Momiji: group project!!
  418. [20:49] <~Momiji> great
  419. [20:49] <Drake> no i think we're more talking about the contents of that one line still
  420. [20:49] <Choja> your wiki is our wiki
  421. [20:49] <~Momiji> Choja: have fun
  422. [20:49] <Patchwork> Ah, are we going to be changing that terribly formulated "ability to the extent of X" at last?
  423. [20:49] <glasnost> K: so long as we're all cool with the abilities section only including actual canon information about the abilities and not speculation or *really* tenuous inferences
  424. [20:50] <Choja> anyways, Kapow is suggesting Abilities: x, y, and z in infobox and Her ability is x for the description
  425. [20:50] <Kapow> I say we go back to "Ability: Manipulation of fate" and not worry about trying to translate ZUN's awkward phrasing into an awkward english phrasing
  426. [20:50] <Choja> Drake thinks that capability/capable of is okay for him (personally*)
  427. [20:50] <~Momiji> i'm moving 'kakashi etc.' back to 'kakashi spirit news' for the time being
  428. [20:50] <Drake> thank you
  429. [20:50] <Choja> Thanks.
  430. [20:50] <Ataisai> K: I kinda like that, as long as it doesn't devolve into needless and groundless speculation
  431. [20:50] <Patchwork> I have to agree with Kapow on this one.
  432. [20:51] <@K> Kapow: but then we'll get an unexpected visitor in the Editor's Corner who says that the translation is inaccurate!
  433. [20:51] <Choja> excuse me this is me giving a damn about the simple/detailed barriers
  434. [20:51] <Patchwork> You can link to a separate page.
  435. [20:51] <@K> Unless we enter into an alternate timeline.
  436. [20:51] <Ataisai> oh
  437. [20:51] <Kapow> the inaccuracy will be explained on the abilities wiki page
  438. [20:51] <Kapow> right at the top
  439. [20:51] <glasnost> i guess i'm okay with having zun's unusual phrasing moved out to a separate page, yeah
  440. [20:51] <Choja> The abilities page is a section where you can emphasize that
  441. [20:51] <Ataisai> glas just said what I said, but better
  442. [20:51] <Patchwork> Which makes note of the strange phrasing ZUN uses to describe the abilities.
  443. [20:51] <Choja> but for character profiles, use the simple form
  444. [20:51] <Drake> I think the main reason I didn't like the vanilla phrasing was that it allowed for huge extrapolation of how powerful the ability was, but as long as it's contained and explained in the ability paragraph it's fine.
  445. [20:51] <~Momiji> holy crap tosi
  446. [20:51] <SupremeBogus> what happened
  447. [20:52] <Ataisai> oh dear
  448. [20:52] <~Momiji> he sure was thorough in renaming it
  449. [20:52] <~Momiji> lol
  450. [20:52] <Ataisai> what did he do now?
  451. [20:52] <@K> ...
  452. [20:52] <@K> :V
  453. [20:52] <SupremeBogus> lolo
  454. [20:52] <~Momiji> he fixed any links that he'd break
  455. [20:52] <Kapow> I don't think adding "the capability of" really reduces the extrapolation you can do
  456. [20:52] <Patchwork> "The capability of" still reads awkwardly, as well.
  457. [20:52] <Drake> it's less direct, was basically it.
  458. [20:52] <Kapow> isn't the implication that they have the power to do that thing and anything lesser?
  459. [20:52] <Patchwork> "Capable of X" might be fine.
  460. [20:53] <Choja> I would like to have a simple/detailed form where you can look up the detailed form in another page and have all pages linking to it use the simple form
  461. [20:53] <Patchwork> Regardless, I think there is one overarching concern which we should have.
  462. [20:53] <Drake> I'm just emotionally attached to the phrase "The capability to X" at this point.
  463. [20:53] <Choja> so all pages would use "Ability: x" but if you go to the abilities page, it explains the details of how ZUN thinks in general of how abilities work
  464. [20:53] <SupremeBogus> isnt there already a separate page detailing the silly nuances of the phrase
  465. [20:53] <Patchwork> Which is that this is an English language wiki, and needs to accessible and straightforward to an English language audience.
  466. [20:53] <Ataisai> Drake: it might be time to break up with it, I think.
  467. [20:53] <Kapow> I don't know that "the capability to" is close enough to ZUN's original phrasing to even be worth bothering with
  468. [20:53] <Patchwork> If something needs further specification, create a page for that.
  469. [20:54] <Choja> exactly
  470. [20:54] <Choja> i said this in my suggestion, let the reader explore as far as they want to
  471. [20:54] <Kapow> it doesn't really make it sound vague, it just sounds redundant
  472. [20:54] <Choja> if they don't want to, don't force it on them
  473. [20:54] <Kapow> in english
  474. [20:54] <@K> That is the beauty of a wiki.
  475. [20:54] <Patchwork> But on the frontend, keep things readable and clear for the English audience who likely does not know the intricacies of Japanese.
  476. [20:54] <@K> There are these little blue things you click
  477. [20:54] <@K> And they start to reproduce on your browser's tab bar
  478. [20:54] <Drake> Well, yes. I'm just perturbed that we needed to have a several-month-long discussion on what to properly use and it all boils down to ditching it and going back to what we had before.
  479. [20:54] <Choja> yes but people are trying to cram all the information into as few pages as possible
  480. [20:55] <Kapow> drake: at least we'll never have to have the discussion again
  481. [20:55] <anon> ^ Lay down the rule
  482. [20:55] <Choja> Drake: Not exactly, we are moving the explanation of ZUN's formality to the abilities page instead, right?
  483. [20:55] <@K> Drake: well, some folks are predisposed to discussing for the sake of discussing.
  484. [20:55] <Drake> Well, yes.
  485. [20:55] <@K> I'll admit that I've been incredibly inactive as of late, I should've stepped in earlier to try and put a stop to this.
  486. [20:56] <Kapow> yeah, we are going to add ZUN's odd phrasing to the wiki, we're just going to add it in ONE place instead of putting it in the translations everywhere
  487. [20:56] <Choja> ^
  488. [20:56] <Drake> I think the lateness in people catching this is what's upsetting me.
  489. [20:56] <SupremeBogus> can we get tosi to agree though
  490. [20:56] <Drake> I put a lot into it, that's all.
  491. [20:56] <Choja> do not make it more difficult to understand this than it has to
  492. [20:56] <Kapow> because it's not possible to translate it without being very wordy or just sounding redundant
  493. [20:56] <Drake> I'm certainly not going to argue this though.
  494. [20:56] <Ataisai> ...I'd also really like it if we could stop beating around the bush and just call Zun's phrasing "terrible," "godawful" or "bogus" (no offense meant to Supreme), but I think that would result in a great deal of panty-bunching, so I don't really think there's much of a chance of that.
  495. [20:56] <Kapow> honestly, "the capability to" doesn't really add any meaning unless you already know that it's trying to refer to ZUN's phrasing
  496. [20:56] <glasnost> at the risk of sounding rude
  497. [20:57] <Drake> atai that would be a bad idea
  498. [20:57] <glasnost> i'm not sure i see why it's important to get tosi to agree
  499. [20:57] <Choja> glasnost: ohhhhhh sick burn
  500. [20:57] <Choja> i mean oh
  501. [20:57] <@K> A 100% accurate and 100% easy-to-read translation is not possible, especially for something as supposedlly intentonally awkward as teido no nouryoku
  502. [20:57] <Choja> i apologize
  503. [20:57] <SupremeBogus> ;u
  504. [20:57] <Patchwork> I hate to say this now, but once we get these issues sorted out, I think we really ought to start going through the character pages and reworking all of them.
  505. [20:57] <~Momiji> toshi's off for the week, don't worry about it
  506. [20:57] <Patchwork> Simply because they are full of bad English as it is.
  507. [20:57] <@K> Tosiaki's policy is to reject any translation which is not 100% accurate.
  508. [20:57] <Kapow> if you don't know about all this already, and you come to the wiki for the first time and see "Ability: the capability to", you're just going to think it's redundant and pointless
  509. [20:57] <Kapow> it doesn't get the idea across
  510. [20:57] <Patchwork> Especially pages like Tewi's page.
  511. [20:57] <Ataisai> I know, Drake. But it'd be nice. At least we'd be honest.
  512. [20:57] == Polaris [~Polaris@qq-D24A32FC.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #touhouwiki
  513. [20:57] <Patchwork> It's quite the mess.
  514. [20:57] <Choja> More people!
  515. [20:57] <@K> Many others are in favor of a translation which is 100% readable.
  516. [20:58] <Ataisai> Patch: actually, Tewi's page got fixed up pretty good
  517. [20:58] <Drake> We don't need to say "ZUN's art is bad" in a wiki either.
  518. [20:58] <Patchwork> Oh, really?
  519. [20:58] <Patchwork> I'm glad to hear that.
  520. [20:58] <@K> So naturally, an agreement with Tosiaki will be incredibly difficult.
  521. [20:58] <Drake> We don't need subjectiveness.
  522. [20:58] <Ataisai> Drake: Just trying to add a little levity, dude.
  523. [20:58] <Ataisai> Don't take it too seriously.
  524. [20:59] <@K> I have kinda done a pretty lame job of administrating, stepping in so late to the debate.
  525. [20:59] <Kapow> atai you aren't helping
  526. [20:59] <Drake> we're kind of in a srsbns discussion here so sorry
  527. [20:59] <@K> But I mostly didn't want to contribute to the heated discussions that started this whole thing.
  528. [20:59] <@K> And I had faith that people would reach a conclusion in a reasonable amount of time.
  529. [20:59] <@K> 2+ months is NOT a reasonable amount of time.
  530. [20:59] <SupremeBogus> maybe we should just create an entirely separate wiki for tosi, so we never have to deal with this again
  531. [20:59] <Drake> some people have said so too lol
  532. [20:59] <Ataisai> ...SB, I am down with that.
  533. [21:00] <Ataisai> Patch: yeah, it's mostly all fixed up and clean
  534. [21:00] <@K> Now now now, please put down your pitchforks and torches.
  535. [21:00] <glasnost> heehee
  536. [21:00] <Ataisai> her info box is still host to some ridiculous stuff though
  537. [21:00] <Ataisai> >Age At least 1,300 years old, most likely at least 1,792,470 years old.
  538. [21:00] <Ataisai> ...
  539. [21:00] <SupremeBogus> lol
  540. [21:00] <Polaris> What
  541. [21:00] <Kapow> what
  542. [21:00] <Choja> Atai: what
  543. [21:00] <SupremeBogus> <3
  544. [21:00] <~Momiji> okay, kakashi spirit news is changed back for the time being
  545. [21:00] <Drake> hahaha
  546. [21:00] <Drake> so good
  547. [21:00] <Patchwork> Given the insistence that Tosiaki demonstrates... is it really necessary to reach an agreement with him? Not to devalue his opinion, but I do not think that one hold out should have sway over what seems to be the majority of the userbase.
  548. [21:00] <Choja> <3 momi
  549. [21:01] <@K> Praises to Momiji
  550. [21:01] <Kapow> tosi won't change his mind
  551. [21:01] <Ataisai> If for nothing, else, I want to talk to Tosi PURELY for the chance to ask him where in balls he got that number from
  552. [21:01] <glasnost> what did kakashi spirit news used to be, out of curiosity?
  553. [21:01] <Drake> yeah patch we've sort of been over this, not sure why people are even bringing tosi into the main equation here
  554. [21:01] <@K> Kakashi Spirit News used to be Kakashi Spirit News
  555. [21:01] <@K> :V
  556. [21:01] <Choja> Tosi is not part of the equation anymore
  557. [21:01] <Drake> exactly
  558. [21:01] <Patchwork> Alright, that is nice to hear.
  559. [21:01] <glasnost> ahaha
  560. [21:01] <@K> I'm glad that it at least LOOKS like we're reaching some sort of civil conclusion.
  561. [21:01] <Ataisai> K: que?
  562. [21:01] <@K> At least, to some of the matters at hand.
  563. [21:02] <Patchwork> I dislike being rude, but at a certain point you simply have to take a firm stand.
  564. [21:02] <anon> I think we've come to the majority of returning to ability, and making sure the phrasing is in the ability section. Correct?
  565. [21:02] <Drake> haha
  566. [21:02] <SupremeBogus> mm
  567. [21:02] <Patchwork> That sounds good to me.
  568. [21:02] <Choja> phrasing?
  569. [21:02] <Choja> oh right
  570. [21:02] <~Momiji> it was 'Kakashi Thoughtographic Report' for a short period of time
  571. [21:02] <Choja> yeah, in the abilities page
  572. [21:02] <Drake> patch: that's what tosiaki says when targeted for editing things too quickly
  573. [21:02] <SupremeBogus> http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Characters/Abilities
  574. [21:02] <anon> yeah abilities page.
  575. [21:02] <Keine-tan> Title: Characters/Abilities - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more (at en.touhouwiki.net)
  576. [21:02] <Choja> okay yeah that works
  577. [21:02] <Kapow> just put a whole big paragraph or two at the top of that page explaining this whole thing
  578. [21:02] <Choja> it was already there anyways
  579. [21:03] <Kapow> and be done with it
  580. [21:03] <Drake> I think I'd like to mention it explicitly on the wiki that we'd be reverting
  581. [21:03] <Choja> just keep it there and reword it a bit
  582. [21:03] <glasnost> thoughtographic report?
  583. [21:03] <glasnost> oh dear
  584. [21:03] <Choja> Yes please, Drake.
  585. [21:03] <glasnost> thank you for changing it back
  586. [21:03] <anon> Yeah that would be good Drake
  587. [21:03] <Kapow> yeah it needs to be reworked, it doesn't actually explain what it means
  588. [21:03] <Kapow> ...huh, thoughtography is actually kind of a word
  589. [21:03] <Drake> Thoughtography is the english term
  590. [21:03] <Ataisai> Oh, and Polaris, Kap, Choja: that was from Tewi's page.
  591. [21:04] <Drake> but it's still terrible and unintuitive
  592. [21:04] <Patchwork> If it has not been said, I would like to note that changes like the decision to turn ghost into 'yurei' and such should probably be reversed as well, with a separate page to denote the finer workings of ZUN's definitions.
  593. [21:04] <Choja> It is, but Tosaki hamfisted it wwww
  594. [21:04] <Polaris> I figured, but I was wondering where that number came from
  595. [21:04] <Kapow> very obscure word
  596. [21:04] <Drake> Yes, Patch.
  597. [21:04] <Ataisai> Pol: I would LOVE to know that myself.
  598. [21:04] <Kapow> oh yes, all the ghosts
  599. [21:04] <Ataisai> I reallywould.
  600. [21:04] <anon> First should we start changing the ablities back just to make sure it happens?
  601. [21:04] <@K> // number chosen by fair die roll
  602. [21:04] <Kapow> I'm in favor of standardizing the translation of all the ghost-related things
  603. [21:04] <@K> // guaranteed to be random
  604. [21:05] <Drake> I'm posting in the usual place, hang on.
  605. [21:05] <@K> return 4;
  606. [21:05] <SupremeBogus> lol
  607. [21:05] <Patchwork> I have to admit that, given that this is an English language wiki, I feel as though we should minimize the usage of Japanese words where possible.
  608. [21:05] <Ataisai> K: snrk
  609. [21:05] <Choja> Anyways, yeah, the agreement is that we are returning to Abilities as a simple form for character profiles and moving the explanation of ZUN's "capability" formality in the Abilities page, right?
  610. [21:05] <Kapow> we have pages for all the "species" already, so just link to those and explain "by ghost we mean yuurei, which is this and that"
  611. [21:05] <Patchwork> Simply for the sake of readability and accessability.
  612. [21:05] <@K> Patchwork: yes, I did say this earlier
  613. [21:05] <~Momiji> Patchwork: that comes back to the 'tengu > goblin' thing
  614. [21:05] <C27> Patchwor: Yeah, indeed
  615. [21:05] <Kapow> goblin doesn't mean tengu though
  616. [21:05] <Choja> Patchwork: I suggested having separate pages for the Japanese terms in the wiki, but using English terms with the links to the Japanese terms
  617. [21:05] <C27> Tengu are different from goblins though.
  618. [21:05] <@K> <K> It is important to remember that the English Touhou Wiki is a wiki for English-speaking Touhou fans. (boy, I don't know why I have to say something as redundant as this, but...)
  619. [21:05] <@K> <K> Naturally, having readable English content is important. Knowing Japanese is a nice bonus, but it should be just that: a bonus.
  620. [21:05] <@K> <K> Not a pre-requisite for reading the wiki.
  621. [21:05] <SupremeBogus> not all words can work into english though
  622. [21:06] <Patchwork> That seems quite fair, Choja.
  623. [21:06] <Patchwork> I like that.
  624. [21:06] <~Momiji> goblin is used for tengu in a lot of english stuff about well, tengu
  625. [21:06] <Drake> oh god we're getting messy again
  626. [21:06] <Choja> whoa whoa
  627. [21:06] <Choja> slow down
  628. [21:06] <Drake> Can we stick to one thing
  629. [21:06] <Kapow> I haven't heard of that
  630. [21:06] <Drake> please
  631. [21:06] <C27> Tengu, kappa, youkai are different enough to keep their Japanese names
  632. [21:06] <Patchwork> And yes, I would be for changing the abilities sections back to the old formatting soon.
  633. [21:06] <C27> Ghosts, zombies, etc are not
  634. [21:06] <Patchwork> Simply to make sure it gets done.
  635. [21:06] <@K> Of course, a certain bit of specialized vocabulary is essential.
  636. [21:06] <Kapow> the issue is how closely the concept matches up
  637. [21:06] <Kapow> we don't have anything like kappa in western mythology
  638. [21:06] <anon> Yeah what patch said: I think we should change the abilities. Then get back to the ghosts and the like.
  639. [21:07] <glasnost> oh dear
  640. [21:07] <C27> Tengus are not little psychotic green guys drssed in rags that assault dwarf fortresses
  641. [21:07] <Kapow> but we definitely have ghosts
  642. [21:07] <glasnost> which side of the threshold does oni/ogre fall on
  643. [21:07] <Choja> Kappa can still have their own page even if it doesn't have a direct English term
  644. [21:07] <Ataisai> a) I think we're all pretty familiar with what tengu are, b) tengu and goblin are much farther apart than ghost and yuurei, and c) for those that aren't, there's a page on the wiki telling you all about tengu
  645. [21:07] <C27> Oni.
  646. [21:07] <glasnost> personally i like oni
  647. [21:07] <Kapow> I'd go with oni
  648. [21:07] <SupremeBogus> id keep oni
  649. [21:07] <glasnost> oh good, that was much simpler that i feared it might be
  650. [21:07] <C27> Kappa, likewise, are not the same as vodyanoi/rusalka/mermaids/etc.
  651. [21:07] <Kapow> honestly it's way too late to change something like that
  652. [21:07] <SupremeBogus> ditch the yuurei bourei crap though
  653. [21:07] <C27> yeah
  654. [21:07] <Kapow> there's already a billion things translated using "oni"
  655. [21:08] <Kapow> and "tengu"
  656. [21:08] <Ataisai> >vodyanoi/rusalka
  657. [21:08] <Ataisai> ?
  658. [21:08] <Kapow> all the doujins, etc.
  659. [21:08] <Patchwork> I would keep oni as well.
  660. [21:08] <Ataisai> russian...?
  661. [21:08] <C27> Those are both human-ish water monsters
  662. [21:08] <@K> Terms for Japanese mythological creatures that the Western world is aware should be preserved.
  663. [21:08] <~Momiji> i let toshi do the 'yuurei/bourei' thing, with the very specific understanding that he fill out those articles enough that 'yuurei' and 'bourei' be understood as specific things
  664. [21:08] <C27> though a rusalka is technically a ghost
  665. [21:08] <~Momiji> and well
  666. [21:08] <Kapow> it's not an issue of inaccuracy, and the japanese term is well-known in the fandom by this point, so there's no harm in leaving it
  667. [21:08] <~Momiji> it doesn't look like a lot of it was understood
  668. [21:09] <Choja> The articles were accurate, but the implementation in other pages was not very concise
  669. [21:09] <Drake> he extrapolated his own meaning out of what you said
  670. [21:09] <@K> After all, I'm pretty sure that tengu aren't some incredibly obscure creature
  671. [21:09] <C27> yeah
  672. [21:09] <Ataisai> I wonder if "vodyanoi" is where they got the name for the Vodalians (merfolk kingdom in M:tG)
  673. [21:09] <~Momiji> yeah pretty much
  674. [21:09] <C27> Probably.
  675. [21:09] <~Momiji> frankly i'd rather have someone actually write up a nice description for yuurei/bourei than just move it all back
  676. [21:10] <~Momiji> but yeah
  677. [21:10] <~Momiji> whatever works
  678. [21:10] <Kapow> I think there should be a nice description AND it should be changed back to ghost
  679. [21:10] <@K> Article: Ghost
  680. [21:10] <Kapow> put the description in the "ghost" article
  681. [21:10] <@K> hey yo there are different KINDS of ghost
  682. [21:10] <@K> we've got:
  683. [21:10] <glasnost> yeah, there should absolutely be a description in the "ghost" page
  684. [21:10] <@K> ===Yuurei===
  685. [21:10] <Choja> Ghost should be a disambiguation page www
  686. [21:10] <@K> ===Bourei===
  687. [21:10] <glasnost> because i know there is a description *somewhere*
  688. [21:10] <C27> So listt hem all under Ghost
  689. [21:10] <Kapow> translate yuurei to one term, bourei to another
  690. [21:10] <~Momiji> http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yuurei
  691. [21:10] <@K> ===Ayanami Rei===
  692. [21:10] <Keine-tan> Title: Yuurei - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more (at en.touhouwiki.net)
  693. [21:10] <glasnost> but it sure as hell is not there
  694. [21:11] <Choja> WHAT REI IS NOT A GHOST HOW RUDE
  695. [21:11] <Patchwork> I concur with this.
  696. [21:11] <~Momiji> http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bourei
  697. [21:11] <Patchwork> Switch back to Ghost.
  698. [21:11] <Keine-tan> Title: Bourei - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more (at en.touhouwiki.net)
  699. [21:11] <@K> But it rhymes!
  700. [21:11] <glasnost> ===Amuro Ray===
  701. [21:11] <~Momiji> it does do this already
  702. [21:11] <C27> You also have ZOMBIE GOASTS too
  703. [21:11] <Patchwork> Keep the distinction noted on the species page.
  704. [21:11] <glasnost> ===Gamma Ray===
  705. [21:11] <Kapow> we don't want to just translate both of them to "ghost" because then you can't tell which one it was originally
  706. [21:11] <Kapow> if we use two different terms and explain elsewhere that one corresponds to "yuurei" and one is "bourei"
  707. [21:11] <C27> I'm saying, one Ghost page with a description of the different types
  708. [21:11] <Kapow> then people can tell which is which
  709. [21:12] <Patchwork> Well, we certainly have enough variants of "ghost" to manage that.
  710. [21:12] <Polaris> Wasn't yuurei originally phantom and bourei originally ghost
  711. [21:12] <C27> We don't eed to make this overcomplicated
  712. [21:12] <Patchwork> Ghost, spectre, phantom, wraith, etc.
  713. [21:12] <C27> PLus halfghosts.
  714. [21:12] <Kapow> there's plenty of english synonyms to cover all the japanese terms here
  715. [21:12] <C27> They should be mentioned too
  716. [21:12] <@K> "Talk:Touhou Wiki/Editor Corner/Archive 1 ... 14 KB (2,324 words) - 02:04, 4 January 2012"
  717. [21:12] <@K> Much simpler times.
  718. [21:12] <Drake> They were both ghost at one point.
  719. [21:12] <Kapow> we just need to come up with a standard of translation
  720. [21:12] <Kapow> and stick to it
  721. [21:12] == Kliff [~jeredcain@qq-E6237504.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout]
  722. [21:12] <@K> "Talk:Touhou Wiki/Editor Corner ... 78 KB (13,147 words) - 01:57, 1 May 2012"
  723. [21:12] <Drake> And then they became phantom and ghost.
  724. [21:12] <~Momiji> the other issue i have is just blankly copying wikipedia articles
  725. [21:13] <@K> Much more complex times.
  726. [21:13] <Kapow> see, that's perfect then
  727. [21:13] <Kapow> the issue was already resolved
  728. [21:13] <Choja> K: yes please keep it simple
  729. [21:13] <~Momiji> instead of actually doing the work to write up an original article body
  730. [21:13] <Choja> like i have to tell this a billion times?? :(
  731. [21:13] <C27> yeah, plagiairizing ain't cool
  732. [21:13] <~Momiji> no, it's not plagiarizing, but it's just lame
  733. [21:14] <Drake> okay uh can i big-paste here
  734. [21:14] <Kapow> pastebin?
  735. [21:14] <Drake> i'm just posting a blurb on the editor corner
  736. [21:14] <Drake> yeah hang on
  737. [21:14] <~Momiji> i dunno if you guys remembered, but i had sefam redo a couple of main character articles in the lead up to TD's release
  738. [21:14] <~Momiji> they were great
  739. [21:14] <anon> Toshiaki was the only one copy+pasteing right though right?
  740. [21:14] <Drake> http://pastebin.com/4AYpSf0Y
  741. [21:14] <Keine-tan> Title: Okay, after much deliberation over IRC, we've come to the conclusion that it's b - Pastebin.com (at pastebin.com)
  742. [21:14] <~Momiji> anon: i don't keep track over people who copypaste from wikipedia
  743. [21:15] <Polaris> Kind of unrelated, but I'm kind of annoyed by stuff like "Cats (猫, neko), scientifically known as Felis catus are domestic animals created and kept as pets by humans."
  744. [21:15] <anon> Alright just looking at his contributes he has lots that are commented essentially a copy+paste from Wikipedia)
  745. [21:15] <@K> Drake: Might I suggest wikilinking a few of those words?
  746. [21:15] <Polaris> Shouldn't we be keeping things relevant to Touhou ?_?
  747. [21:15] <Drake> What do you mean
  748. [21:16] <@K> For example: The awkward and ambiguous phrasing that ZUN uses and what it signifies will be detailed in [[Characters/Abilities|the general Abilities page]].
  749. [21:16] <~Momiji> http://en.touhouwiki.net/index.php?title=Cat&action=history
  750. [21:16] <Keine-tan> Title: Revision history of "Cat" - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more (at en.touhouwiki.net)
  751. [21:16] <Drake> Oh you mean just putting those in the wiki ad verbatim
  752. [21:16] <Ataisai> the hell
  753. [21:16] <@K> Polaris: indeed
  754. [21:16] <Drake> I was actually just wondering if I wrote everything accurately enough.
  755. [21:17] <Ataisai> does Touhou really have a bunch of information on cats specific to the games?
  756. [21:17] <Kapow> it has zero
  757. [21:17] <Kapow> and there's zero on the page
  758. [21:17] <Drake> Kasha and Nekomata?
  759. [21:17] <Polaris> Well we don't need to get specific
  760. [21:17] <Polaris> since they're already divided
  761. [21:17] <Choja> meow
  762. [21:17] <@K> "Capable of..." was cool, but that might just be reopening a can of worms.
  763. [21:17] <Kapow> really the only point of that page is to have subpages for kasha and nekomata
  764. [21:18] <Choja> cool, but too cool
  765. [21:18] <@K> too cool for school
  766. [21:18] <Kapow> and to include sokrates I guess
  767. [21:18] <Choja> anyways, so we're done with the major changes then?
  768. [21:18] <Drake> so do i post this or not
  769. [21:18] <Drake> :I
  770. [21:18] <Kapow> drake: sounds good to me
  771. [21:18] <@K> Drake: I like it.
  772. [21:18] <anon> Post it.
  773. [21:18] <Choja> yes
  774. [21:18] == Drunk_Aya [Xavier@qq-8EE3CF84.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Well, I better get my hitbox hi-- *PICHUN*]
  775. [21:18] <@K> Maybe put it in a new topic on the page.
  776. [21:19] <Kapow> actually wait
  777. [21:19] <Drake> oops hit submit too late, i'll do it over
  778. [21:19] <Polaris> I can try rewriting the cat article and see how you like it
  779. [21:19] <Ataisai> Kap: oh right, forgot about Sokrates.
  780. [21:19] <Choja> everyone forgets about Sokrates
  781. [21:19] <Kapow> are we doing "Ability to do a thing" or "Ability: doing a thing"
  782. [21:19] <SupremeBogus> Ability: ability to do a thing ;uuuu
  783. [21:19] <glasnost> i like :
  784. [21:19] <@K> Phrasings like that are forbidden.
  785. [21:20] <Ataisai> Pol: I've already got you covered.
  786. [21:20] <Ataisai> "Sits on whatever you're doing. Pointedly meows at you until fed."
  787. [21:20] <C27> "Ability: Do a thing" is probably better
  788. [21:20] <Choja> ZUN's Ability: Get really drunk.
  789. [21:20] <Ataisai> there's your article.
  790. [21:20] <Choja> okay so everyone is totally happy now right
  791. [21:20] <Drake> [23:19] <SupremeBogus> Ability: ability to do x
  792. [21:20] <C27> Well, whatever you feel goes with the rest of the article best
  793. [21:20] <@K> I'll tack on a reply affirming the "All Clear" status, and also say that channel logs can be provided for those who are paranoid and doubt us-- I mean, wish to see them
  794. [21:20] <~Momiji> Choja: what if zun doesn't drink a lot of beer
  795. [21:20] <Drake> it's always been like that before, redundancy there is fine imo
  796. [21:20] <Patchwork> I do like the "Ability: Ability to do X" format.
  797. [21:20] <Ataisai> Only because I spiked everyone's drink with Valium, Choj
  798. [21:21] <Kapow> that's unnecessary redundancy
  799. [21:21] <Choja> WHAT EW ATAI
  800. [21:21] <glasnost> i could be happier
  801. [21:21] <glasnost> like if someone went to work for me tomorrow
  802. [21:21] <@K> Eh, I find redundancy of that type to be unnecessary.
  803. [21:21] <glasnost> that would make me really happy
  804. [21:21] <Kapow> the only thing it changes is the conjugation
  805. [21:21] <Choja> i'll volun
  806. [21:21] <Choja> wait no i'm going to be dead after work never mind
  807. [21:21] <@K> Repeating an ability in the infobox, intro paragraph, and detailed Abilities section is acceptable.
  808. [21:21] <Choja> ;_:
  809. [21:21] <Patchwork> Though, yes, it is redundant.
  810. [21:21] <@K> But repeating "Ability" in the infobox seems to be too much.
  811. [21:21] <Choja> K jaywalks
  812. [21:22] <Ataisai> wait
  813. [21:22] <Choja> but is fine with arson and murder
  814. [21:22] <@K> Why yes I do.
  815. [21:22] <Choja> www
  816. [21:22] <@K> Why yes I am not
  817. [21:22] <Drake> ok done
  818. [21:22] <Patchwork> I am glad that we seem to be working this situation out now.
  819. [21:22] <Ataisai> yeah, "Ability: Stopping of time" is fine, but "Ability: The ability to stop time" would look really dumb.
  820. [21:22] <Kapow> http://en.touhouwiki.net/index.php?title=Remilia_Scarlet&oldid=220011
  821. [21:22] <Kapow> like this
  822. [21:22] <Drake> i think you'll all see what I did there.
  823. [21:22] <Keine-tan> Title: Remilia Scarlet - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more (at en.touhouwiki.net)
  824. [21:23] <Kapow> "Abilities" on the left, "Manipulation of fate" on the right
  825. [21:23] <Patchwork> Reimu will have an amusing ability descriptor.
  826. [21:23] <Patchwork> Ability: Floating
  827. [21:23] <Choja> That's a pretty good skill
  828. [21:23] <Drake> float in the sky
  829. [21:23] <Choja> if only she had regen and reraise
  830. [21:23] <Drake> **********
  831. [21:23] <Patchwork> Float is undeniably helpful, yes.
  832. [21:23] <Patchwork> She can avoid traps this way.
  833. [21:23] <Kapow> float on
  834. [21:23] <Ataisai> end of rine?
  835. [21:23] <Choja> Summary of tonight: Tosiaki saved the wiki by being completely stupid. \o/
  836. [21:23] <Drake> http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Touhou_Wiki/Editor_Corner
  837. [21:23] <@K> Drake: why is 9.8 before 9.5 haha
  838. [21:23] <Keine-tan> Title: Talk:Touhou Wiki/Editor Corner - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more (at en.touhouwiki.net)
  839. [21:24] <~Momiji> yep
  840. [21:24] <Choja> let's all thank tosi by kicking him in the dick more please don't hurt me momi
  841. [21:24] <Drake> ;)
  842. [21:24] <@K> (I mean, sure, it's on the top of the page, but I was scouring the bottom of the page looking for your post)
  843. [21:24] <Choja> also uh he never woke up did he
  844. [21:24] <~Momiji> but i thought you liked it =[
  845. [21:24] <Drake> Fuck if I want to wade through that wall lol
  846. [21:24] <~Momiji> i doubt it
  847. [21:24] <@K> SAME
  848. [21:24] <@K> I thought the new additions to the wall were on the bottom. D:
  849. [21:24] <Choja> momi did you accidentally kick his dick so hard you killed him
  850. [21:24] <Choja> you horrible person
  851. [21:25] <~Momiji> oh crap
  852. [21:25] <@K> Choja: all 3 of em
  853. [21:25] <~Momiji> =[
  854. [21:25] <Drake> i edited the upper tree
  855. [21:25] <Regris> what, dickkicking where
  856. [21:25] <Drake> instead of adding a new section
  857. [21:25] <Choja> okay whatever patch glas kapow we did what we came here to do, right? ahaha
  858. [21:25] <~Momiji> oh right
  859. [21:25] == mode/#touhouwiki [-b Treia!*@*] by Momiji
  860. [21:25] <glasnost> oh man
  861. [21:25] <glasnost> just leave it set
  862. [21:25] <Choja> i apologize, i think treia is always stupid
  863. [21:25] <glasnost> trust me on this one
  864. [21:25] <~Momiji> who are they anyway
  865. [21:25] <anon> Right so we got it. Start switching everything to Ability:. And it'll stay that way now. I love you guys
  866. [21:25] == mode/#touhouwiki [+b Treia!*@*] by Momiji
  867. [21:26] <~Momiji> wait wait, Ability: ?
  868. [21:26] <Regris> Choja's Ability: Kae
  869. [21:26] <Choja> NO GO AWAY
  870. [21:26] <anon> Abilities Manipulation of fate - right in the remilla article kapow posted.
  871. [21:26] <Ataisai> Ability: Cape ability
  872. [21:26] <Ataisai> (Wriggle)
  873. [21:27] <C27> MOMIJI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guVA9nYEjWU
  874. [21:27] <Keine-tan> Title: Juicy Karkass - Punch Em In the Dick - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
  875. [21:27] <Regris> that's... a terrible pun
  876. [21:27] <Ataisai> I try.
  877. [21:27] <Patchwork> >Treia was banned
  878. [21:27] <~Momiji> so we're just undoing absolutely everything?
  879. [21:27] <Patchwork> Yeah, leave that in place.
  880. [21:27] <Drake> seems that way
  881. [21:27] <~Momiji> aw'right
  882. [21:27] <Choja> Everything got complicated.
  883. [21:27] <Ataisai> Thank /god/
  884. [21:27] <~Momiji> yeah
  885. [21:28] <Choja> I don't understand why
  886. [21:28] <Drake> just adding pages everywhere
  887. [21:28] <~Momiji> that was 2 months of nonsense
  888. [21:28] <Drake> yeah basically
  889. [21:28] <Drake> fuck
  890. [21:28] <Patchwork> It's lovely that this has been resolved.
  891. [21:28] <Choja> don't make things harder to understand
  892. [21:28] <anon> Not absoultely everything. We have a new paragraph in the ability page.
  893. [21:28] <~Momiji> and i'll be waiting for my phone to go off in the middle of the night
  894. [21:28] <anon> Yay.
  895. [21:28] <~Momiji> :P
  896. [21:28] <Drake> [23:28] <anon> Not absoultely everything. We have a new paragraph in the ability page.
  897. [21:28] <Ibaraki_Ibuki> until he comes back...
  898. [21:28] <Drake> yes
  899. [21:28] <Patchwork> Though it took significantly more effort and time than strictly necessary.
  900. [21:28] <Choja> excuse me while i insult nazeo more
  901. [21:28] <~Momiji> pfffhahahaa
  902. [21:28] <Patchwork> Having it done feels like an accomplishment.
  903. [21:28] <Ataisai> Let this event hereafter be known as The Great Unfucking
  904. [21:28] <glasnost> [23:28:21] <Ibaraki_Ibuki> until he comes back...
  905. [21:28] <~Momiji> yeah
  906. [21:28] <glasnost> aaaaah
  907. [21:28] <anon> But we did it. High fives.
  908. [21:28] <Choja> ew gross
  909. [21:28] <~Momiji> no
  910. [21:28] <~Momiji> screw that
  911. [21:28] <glasnost> that feels like the scare chord at the end of the movie
  912. [21:29] <Drake> "The Great Unfucking"
  913. [21:29] <glasnost> and then next summer they release "Touhou Wiki 2: Electric Boogaloo"
  914. [21:29] <Choja> we were watching panty and stocking with garterbelt
  915. [21:29] <Ataisai> pfft
  916. [21:29] <glasnost> "Revenge of Tosiaki: The Book: The Comic: The Movie"
  917. [21:29] <Choja> and that was the first thing we thought of, drake
  918. [21:30] <Patchwork> Touhou Wiki 2: Electric Boogaloo the Sequel: Saturday Night Fever
  919. [21:30] <Ataisai> I guess maybe "The Great Unfucking of The Wiki"
  920. [21:30] <Ataisai> puts some needed context in there
  921. [21:30] <Choja> man what is your obssession with fuckin'
  922. [21:30] <Kapow> Touhou Wiki 2.5: Sunday Afternoon Influenza
  923. [21:30] <Ataisai> Well
  924. [21:30] <Choja> it is not like you are koishi or something
  925. [21:30] <SupremeBogus> someone needs to archive this event and create a wiki chronicle thing so that we can always remember it
  926. [21:30] <Choja> name it "NEVER DO THIS EVER AGAIN"
  927. [21:31] <Ataisai> ...I'll go with that.
  928. [21:31] <Choja> can we make guidelines for editting
  929. [21:31] <Choja> so i don't have to eat a billion non-processed edits
  930. [21:31] <Ibaraki_Ibuki> there's a page for that
  931. [21:31] <Drake> Furthermore, Yuugi's title is "the spoken-of anomalies, strength, disorder, and spirits."
  932. [21:31] <Drake> do we change the title as well
  933. [21:31] <Ataisai> Iba: but does anybody read it?
  934. [21:31] <Drake> yay/nay
  935. [21:31] <Choja> yes
  936. [21:31] <anon> yes
  937. [21:31] <glasnost> absolutely yes
  938. [21:32] <Patchwork> Yea
  939. [21:32] <Ibaraki_Ibuki> @atai: dunno?
  940. [21:32] <SupremeBogus> what else did he change
  941. [21:32] <Ataisai> jesus christ, YES
  942. [21:32] == KyoriAsh [~Kyo@A68C9BAE.FFEC5DFF.1B94895.IP] has joined #touhouwiki
  943. [21:32] <Choja> oh hell no! ATTACK THE DARK COURT
  944. [21:32] * Choja level 9999 dark slayer
  945. [21:32] <Drake> also
  946. [21:32] <Ibaraki_Ibuki> @atai: i don't keep track of everyone who sees it...
  947. [21:32] <KyoriAsh> also
  948. [21:32] <Drake> "The Spoken-of Unexplainable Phenomenon" or "The So-Called Unexplainable Phenomenon"
  949. [21:32] <KyoriAsh> drake distrubed my edit
  950. [21:32] <Choja> So-Called in my opinion
  951. [21:33] <KyoriAsh> 9.8 should be below of 9.5......
  952. [21:33] <Drake> nope
  953. [21:33] <~Momiji> hahahaa kyori
  954. [21:33] <~Momiji> where have you been
  955. [21:33] <KyoriAsh> section put at the wrong place
  956. [21:33] <~Momiji> you missed the big event
  957. [21:33] <Drake> it's at the right place
  958. [21:33] <Ataisai> Iba: maybe you guys should pull a little Clockwork Orange; strap all editors into a chair, pry their eyelids open, and force them to read it
  959. [21:33] <KyoriAsh> I'd been fed up with mIRC fequent disconnection
  960. [21:33] <Drake> sorry i killed your edit though
  961. [21:33] <KyoriAsh> I know I missed the event
  962. [21:33] <~Momiji> stop using mirc then
  963. [21:33] <KyoriAsh> no
  964. [21:33] <KyoriAsh> software disconnection
  965. [21:33] <~Momiji> :P
  966. [21:33] <KyoriAsh> not only mIRC
  967. [21:33] <@K> FFFF EDITOR CONFLICTS
  968. [21:33] <@K> I just wanna talk :(
  969. [21:33] <Choja> okay K
  970. [21:33] <Choja> tell us about your childhood
  971. [21:34] <Choja> i mean, damn it, okay what do you want to talk about
  972. [21:34] <KyoriAsh> YAY T been COOL OFF!
  973. [21:34] <~Momiji> yes
  974. [21:34] <@K> "Okay let me just copy paste my text back up into the main edit box"
  975. [21:34] <@K> "Oh, I'll touch up this sentence"
  976. [21:34] <@K> "ANOTHER EDITOR CONFLICT"
  977. [21:34] <KyoriAsh> BTW I just woke up
  978. [21:34] <@K> "Aw..."
  979. [21:34] <~Momiji> lol
  980. [21:34] <KyoriAsh> the big event takes place during 6:xx am to 11:xx am
  981. [21:34] <KyoriAsh> where I'm sleeping
  982. [21:35] <KyoriAsh> any log to see?
  983. [21:35] <KyoriAsh> 11:00 . . Momiji (Talk | contribs | block) blocked Tosiaki (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 1 week (account creation disabled) (Please take a 1 week break from the wiki.)
  984. [21:35] <Choja> okay glas now go tell everyone to pipe down and calm their tits please
  985. [21:35] <Choja> everyone
  986. [21:35] <Ataisai> out in the firewood pile
  987. [21:35] <~Momiji> you should be calm anyway =|
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