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Louise / Ras debate (11/15/15)

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  1. [11/14/2015 9:29:33 PM] Riot: - peer - Did you just ban him because he called you an idiot?
  2. [11/14/2015 9:30:13 PM] Loui: Temp ban. Third tim in the last few days he has ignored a request to cease something. Wait why am I explaining this to you
  3. [11/14/2015 9:30:21 PM] Loui: .. time*
  4. [11/14/2015 9:30:57 PM] Riot: Because some part of you agrees that the knowledge itself isn't harmful, I think.
  5. [11/14/2015 9:31:12 PM] Loui: I still dislike that you seem to want to moderate my moderating.
  6. [11/14/2015 9:31:31 PM] Riot: I want to moderate RPC and the way people approach dealing with others in general.
  7. [11/14/2015 9:31:38 PM] Riot: That's just me.
  8. [11/14/2015 9:31:41 PM] Loui: Well that isn't really your place..
  9. [11/14/2015 9:31:56 PM] Riot: No, but it's part of who I am.
  10. [11/14/2015 9:32:04 PM] Loui: But that doesn't make it okay Dig.
  11. [11/14/2015 9:32:28 PM] Riot: I understand that you don't approve of me talking to you about these things.
  12. [11/14/2015 9:32:38 PM] Loui: Not when it's in a judgemental manner, no.
  13. [11/14/2015 9:34:43 PM] Riot: Then let's reapproach this --
  14. [11/14/2015 9:34:45 PM] Riot: - Thinks. -
  15. [11/14/2015 9:35:18 PM] Loui: I need you to understand that this is my room. This is a room moderated by people I trust.
  16. [11/14/2015 9:35:36 PM] Loui: When a decision is made, I am a capable human being with a moral code and intellect.
  17. [11/14/2015 9:35:41 PM] Loui: I know what I am doing.
  18. [11/14/2015 9:35:51 PM] Loui: Being curious, is fine. You're my friend and you are welcome to ask
  19. [11/14/2015 9:36:08 PM] Loui: But it is not your place to doubt me, or judge my decisions in a way that makes you sound superior.
  20. [11/14/2015 9:36:26 PM] Riot: I've never asked about the bans to sound superior.
  21. [11/14/2015 9:36:34 PM] Loui: It's more the way you ask
  22. [11/14/2015 9:36:43 PM] Riot: Then let me try this a different way --
  23. [11/14/2015 9:37:22 PM] Riot: I sometime see that you ban people but I'm not always sure why the people are being banned. I just wanted to ask, despite knowing that it isn't entirely my place, so that I can understand in what way the room is being moderated.
  24. [11/14/2015 9:37:37 PM] Loui: I just don't see why you need to know that
  25. [11/14/2015 9:37:53 PM] Loui: If I am your friend, surely you know I am doing everything in my power to keep a good setting and do as morally correct.
  26. [11/14/2015 9:39:15 PM] Riot: I ask because I am concerned in any occasion when I cannot understand why a person is banned. While I don't believe myself in direct threat, I have had multiple bad past experiences with room moderation when the terms were not made entirely clear.
  27. [11/14/2015 9:39:42 PM] Loui: That's my main thing. There are rules in place to ensure bans are always fair, explained and monitored.
  28. [11/14/2015 9:39:48 PM] Riot: But what are the rules?
  29. [11/14/2015 9:40:09 PM] Loui: That's for the moderators to operate by, dear.
  30. [11/14/2015 9:40:33 PM] Riot: I mean the rules for the people being moderated.
  31. [11/14/2015 9:40:50 PM] Loui: Says up the top.
  32. [11/14/2015 9:40:51 PM] Loui: No drama. No trolling, no spamming. Okay? A few warnings may be issued before a ban.
  33. [11/14/2015 9:41:20 PM] Riot: Spamming and drama, I understand.
  34. [11/14/2015 9:41:40 PM] Riot: Trolling... I would have to ask about because it's a little vague. I understand the intent, but I know there are various people that troll.
  35. [11/14/2015 9:41:47 PM] Riot: But to differing extents.
  36. [11/14/2015 9:41:59 PM] Loui: No trolling means no trolling.
  37. [11/14/2015 9:42:14 PM] Riot: Hmn...
  38. [11/14/2015 9:42:21 PM] Loui: That's why Odin went
  39. [11/14/2015 9:42:24 PM] Loui: And Jack
  40. [11/14/2015 9:42:29 PM] Riot: Ayden posting his phone number in the room?
  41. [11/14/2015 9:42:37 PM] Loui: Not appropriate.
  42. [11/14/2015 9:42:49 PM] Riot: That doesn't fall under any of the rules that are stated, which is why I ask.
  43. [11/14/2015 9:43:01 PM] Loui: Surely even you can understand that.
  44. [11/14/2015 9:43:21 PM] Riot: I can understand that intuitively, yes. When he clarified that it wasn't his personal number, however...
  45. [11/14/2015 9:44:00 PM] Loui: I don't care who the number belongs to, I asked for it to stop and he ignored such request. Children need timeouts to understand behvaiour. Works every single time.
  46. [11/14/2015 9:44:13 PM] Loui: He often posts such things around, real things.
  47. [11/14/2015 9:44:24 PM] Riot: Real things?
  48. [11/14/2015 9:44:33 PM] Loui: Pictures, numbers, details.
  49. [11/14/2015 9:44:42 PM] Loui: Nobody is here for reality and it often freaks most people out.
  50. [11/14/2015 9:44:47 PM] Riot: People have posted photos of their real bodies in the room.
  51. [11/14/2015 9:44:53 PM] Loui: Skype, PM and other methods exist for those wanting to share.
  52. [11/14/2015 9:44:57 PM] Loui: And any time I am there I stop it.
  53. [11/14/2015 9:45:04 PM] Riot: Vocaroos?
  54. [11/14/2015 9:45:14 PM] Loui: -Rubbed her head- Okay, this needs to stop.
  55. [11/14/2015 9:45:27 PM] Loui: I'm sorry Digi but you aren't a mod and you aren't a site owner or anything like that. You can't keep doing this.
  56. [11/14/2015 9:45:44 PM] Riot: What has to stop?
  57. [11/14/2015 9:45:47 PM] Loui: I know I run my room right and I trust myself and my mods. I don't need to explain myself to you.
  58. [11/14/2015 9:46:16 PM] Riot: I'm not asking you to explain yourself, I'm asking to understand how the rules work.
  59. [11/14/2015 9:46:38 PM] Riot: That way I can better understand for myself when a rule is being broken and what rules to watch for.
  60. [11/14/2015 9:46:46 PM] Riot: Not posting my Skype in the room, etc.
  61. [11/14/2015 9:46:47 PM] Loui: But.. I don't want you to do that?
  62. [11/14/2015 9:46:51 PM] Loui: I have mods.
  63. [11/14/2015 9:46:57 PM] Loui: I don't need others watching for broken rules.
  64. [11/14/2015 9:47:19 PM] Riot: Why isn't it okay for me to know rules so that I avoid breaking them?
  65. [11/14/2015 9:47:52 PM] Loui: You know the rules, and if you were ever to break them as I explained, a moderator would give you a warning and explain the issue.
  66. [11/14/2015 9:48:03 PM] Loui: You've nothing to delve deeply into. You're not in danger.
  67. [11/14/2015 9:48:10 PM] Riot: Except the rule about personal information or pictures is something that I've never mentioned before.
  68. [11/14/2015 9:48:17 PM] Riot: That's the reason why I'm asking - why I came to you.
  69. [11/14/2015 9:48:21 PM] Loui: It happens often and people are always warned.
  70. [11/14/2015 9:48:26 PM] Loui: Well you came to me to ask about a ban..
  71. [11/14/2015 9:48:46 PM] Riot: I just wanted to know the reason for it, really - the ban itself is just the enforcement of a rule.
  72. [11/14/2015 9:48:53 PM] Riot: I only wanted to understand the rule itself, you know?
  73. [11/14/2015 9:49:08 PM] Loui: I suppose.
  74. [11/14/2015 9:49:56 PM] Riot: It's... - thinks -
  75. [11/14/2015 9:50:20 PM] Riot: It's like knowing the rules of traffic, I guess. Nobody likes being pulled over by cops, yet there will be times when you see a person do something ridiculous and a cop never touches them.
  76. [11/14/2015 9:50:34 PM] Riot: It doesn't mean you can do it, it just means they got away with it or there was a slip --
  77. [11/14/2015 9:50:45 PM] Riot: Still, I wouldn't ever go taking advantage of the rules because I was your friend.
  78. [11/14/2015 9:50:59 PM] Loui: But if you saw a cop make a judgement you wouldn't track them down and ask them 'did you just do that over that?'
  79. [11/14/2015 9:51:00 PM] Riot: I respect that you run the room and because of that I'd rather do my best to follow the terms you set.
  80. [11/14/2015 9:51:14 PM] Riot: No, I'd go to city hall or the police station instead.
  81. [11/14/2015 9:51:37 PM] Riot: That's the exact climate we're in right now in the States, remember?
  82. [11/14/2015 9:51:45 PM] Loui: No I'm Australian.
  83. [11/14/2015 9:51:47 PM] Riot: Ahh --
  84. [11/14/2015 9:52:16 PM] Riot: Well here, people have taken to recording Police Officers in violent altercations with people because of the number of times that people have been assaulted or arrested by police officers without proper reasoning.
  85. [11/14/2015 9:52:40 PM] Loui: SEE
  86. [11/14/2015 9:52:45 PM] Loui: Without proper reasoning
  87. [11/14/2015 9:52:48 PM] Riot: Yes.
  88. [11/14/2015 9:52:56 PM] Loui: I don't lack proper reasoning.
  89. [11/14/2015 9:53:04 PM] Loui: Thus, there is no need to question my actions.
  90. [11/14/2015 9:53:11 PM] Riot: Except if I come around a corner and see you beating someone down?
  91. [11/14/2015 9:53:18 PM] Riot: How do I know if it's okay or not if I never ask?
  92. [11/14/2015 9:53:29 PM] Riot: People assumed that the cops always had reasoning until others recorded it on camera.
  93. [11/14/2015 9:54:15 PM] Loui: Well, despite your need to want to moderate and dictate everything. I have no need to feel judged and watched by you. I know my actions are just and I follow my moral code, so none of this will be discussed anymore.
  94. [11/14/2015 9:55:21 PM] Riot: I'm not moderating anything, Louis. I'm asking. A moderator can take an action, whereas all I can do is converse. My only actions are to patronize the room or not to.
  95. [11/14/2015 9:56:06 PM] Riot: I understand that you don't enjoy my asking you about these things, but just please keep in mind that it's part of who I am. If you'd prefer, I can simply leave the room alone.
  96. [11/14/2015 9:56:15 PM] Riot: As it is, I only came back around because you asked me to.
  97. [11/14/2015 9:56:42 PM] Loui: If you dislike it that much, I think you should go where you like. I don't want to have to feel that I should give you all this information just to keep you coming back.
  98. [11/14/2015 9:57:18 PM] Riot: You don't have to give me the information, but I would always ask for it if I was in the room and an action took place that I didn't understand.
  99. [11/14/2015 9:57:51 PM] Riot: I observe and question because in many cases, that's what's needed. However, I understand the request and I'll leave the room.
  100. [11/14/2015 9:58:22 PM] Loui: Well it isn't really needed, it's just how you feel you need to be. But, as you wish.
  101. [11/14/2015 9:58:55 PM] Riot: My wish is to be around the room but not to feel that my questions won't be tolerated due to being in some sort of... inferior position.
  102. [11/14/2015 9:59:21 PM] Riot: If this is the only way we can still be friends, I'd rather leave the room alone.
  103. [11/14/2015 9:59:23 PM] Loui: You know that isn't the issue.
  104. [11/14/2015 10:01:14 PM] Riot: I know that my presence there will likely only continue to be an issue. I've held my tongue in the past when I've seen things that seemed... odd.
  105. [11/14/2015 10:01:40 PM] Loui: Which is what you should do. You aren't a moderator. It isn't your place to judge our actions. I don't understand why you don't get this.
  106. [11/14/2015 10:01:56 PM] Riot: Because who else is going to tell you that a moderator isn't being fair or doing things properly?
  107. [11/14/2015 10:02:37 PM] Loui: Just because you don't feel a moderator is being fair, doesn't mean I agree. I trust my moderators because all their actions are discussed behind the scenes. Anything that goes on is agreed between all moderators.
  108. [11/14/2015 10:04:24 PM] Riot: That doesn't always work, Louis.
  109. [11/14/2015 10:04:43 PM] Riot: I don't mean it as an insult, just...
  110. [11/14/2015 10:04:46 PM] Loui: Well it does for us.
  111. [11/14/2015 10:04:54 PM] Loui: I've not had one action made I didn't agree with.
  112. [11/14/2015 10:05:12 PM] Riot: Then the Burrow isn't a place for me either way.
  113. [11/14/2015 10:05:26 PM] Riot: I've already seen people questioned in some instances and ignored in others on a basis of favortism.
  114. [11/14/2015 10:05:36 PM] Riot: That I can't speak to you about it only means it's better I'm not there to witness it.
  115. [11/14/2015 10:05:42 PM] Loui: Well that hasn't happened but okay.
  116. [11/14/2015 10:05:45 PM] Riot: It has.
  117. [11/14/2015 10:05:50 PM] Riot: I've seen it myself, multiple times.
  118. [11/14/2015 10:05:51 PM] Loui: This is all ridiculous and I'm really dissapointed.
  119. [11/14/2015 10:06:04 PM] Riot: It's ridiculous from your point of view is all, Louise.
  120. [11/14/2015 10:06:19 PM] Riot: I'm disappointed that you don't trust me to have seen something that I observed myself.
  121. [11/14/2015 10:06:29 PM] Loui: Oh like you don't trust me to say it's all been fair.
  122. [11/14/2015 10:06:35 PM] Loui: Double standards. Hot.
  123. [11/14/2015 10:06:37 PM] Riot: You haven't been there 24/7.
  124. [11/14/2015 10:06:45 PM] Riot: There's no way you can validate that statement.
  125. [11/14/2015 10:06:46 PM] Loui: Neither have you.
  126. [11/14/2015 10:06:54 PM] Riot: No, and I didn't say it's always unfair.
  127. [11/14/2015 10:07:05 PM] Riot: I said that I have seen some instances of unfairness or inconsistent moderation.
  128. [11/14/2015 10:07:18 PM] Riot: That you weren't present means you couldn't observe the same things yourself.
  129. [11/14/2015 10:07:19 PM] Loui: And I'm telling you that you aren't judge and jury.
  130. [11/14/2015 10:07:24 PM] Riot: I never attempted to be.
  131. [11/14/2015 10:07:36 PM] Riot: I attempted to simply question what I saw --
  132. [11/14/2015 10:07:46 PM] Riot: Except you have already told me that you have no interest in my bringing that to you.
  133. [11/14/2015 10:08:26 PM] Riot: I wouldn't say "So and so wasn't right" without explaining the instance I observed. You know that. I'm a very detailed person.
  134. [11/14/2015 10:08:42 PM] Loui: Detailed enough to continuously question my moderators and myself.
  135. [11/14/2015 10:08:55 PM] Riot: You're not even acknowledging what I said.
  136. [11/14/2015 10:09:01 PM] Loui: Oh I am.
  137. [11/14/2015 10:09:10 PM] Loui: For the second damn time. Because apparently this is a normal thing.
  138. [11/14/2015 10:09:35 PM] Riot: Louis, did you ever actually acknowledge the possibility that something wrong could be done by a mod while you weren't present?
  139. [11/14/2015 10:09:42 PM] Riot: Trust should never be blindly invested.
  140. [11/14/2015 10:09:48 PM] Loui: No because unlike you I trust my friends.
  141. [11/14/2015 10:10:23 PM] Riot: Waterless was a trusted friend when he treated you like crap because Joan got upset.
  142. [11/14/2015 10:10:30 PM] Loui: He isn't a mod.
  143. [11/14/2015 10:10:33 PM] Loui: And I never trusted him,
  144. [11/14/2015 10:10:39 PM] Riot: You told me you had when you were upset about it.
  145. [11/14/2015 10:10:52 PM] Loui: Trust is given on differnt levels.
  146. [11/14/2015 10:11:03 PM] Riot: Aha.
  147. [11/14/2015 10:11:08 PM] Riot: So in short, in this instance...
  148. [11/14/2015 10:11:08 PM] Loui: I wouldn't give moderator rights to people I didn't fully trust.
  149. [11/14/2015 10:11:20 PM] Riot: You are utterly unwilling to trust me to even inform you of something I saw ...
  150. [11/14/2015 10:11:28 PM] Loui: If you were informing, sure.
  151. [11/14/2015 10:11:33 PM] Loui: But you don't inform. you judge. you nitpick.
  152. [11/14/2015 10:11:43 PM] Riot: How can I inform without some judgement?
  153. [11/14/2015 10:11:51 PM] Loui: You apparently can't.
  154. [11/14/2015 10:12:04 PM] Riot: It's impossible to do so unless I informed you about everything.
  155. [11/14/2015 10:12:28 PM] Riot: What I'm saying is that I would have to judge for myself whether I thought it was questionable or inappropriate in order to think it was worth bringing to you, Louis.
  156. [11/14/2015 10:12:39 PM] Loui: Or you could just not cause you aren't a mod :D
  157. [11/14/2015 10:12:47 PM] Riot: Except you just said that informing was okay.
  158. [11/14/2015 10:13:02 PM] Loui: Informing and this shit that you do? Very different.
  159. [11/14/2015 10:13:17 PM] Riot: I'm not talking about this.
  160. [11/14/2015 10:13:30 PM] Riot: I'm talking about if I see something that a mod handled and I'm not certain that it was entirely okay.
  161. [11/14/2015 10:13:38 PM] Loui: Or.
  162. [11/14/2015 10:13:40 PM] Loui: OR.
  163. [11/14/2015 10:13:51 PM] Loui: You could realise that the mods are there to moderate and it isn't your place to judge them.
  164. [11/14/2015 10:14:10 PM] Riot: Moderators aren't Gods, Louis.
  165. [11/14/2015 10:14:14 PM] Riot: They're just people.
  166. [11/14/2015 10:14:19 PM] Loui: People with a job
  167. [11/14/2015 10:14:22 PM] Loui: That you don't have.
  168. [11/14/2015 10:14:29 PM] Riot: A job that does not make them infallible.
  169. [11/14/2015 10:14:45 PM] Loui: Okay I am actually done with this. This is so ridiculous.
  170. [11/14/2015 10:14:49 PM] Riot: Yes, it is.
  171. [11/14/2015 10:14:54 PM] Riot: It's incredibly ridiculous, I agree.
  172. [11/14/2015 10:15:43 PM] Riot: I'll only leave off with this --
  173. [11/14/2015 10:15:50 PM] Riot: Afterwards you can ignore me however much you like.
  174. [11/14/2015 10:16:14 PM] Riot: You are surrounded by a number of people who mostly have their own view of things. That view rarely transposes perfectly over your own or anyone else's.
  175. [11/14/2015 10:16:39 PM] Riot: Please don't have blind faith in a human being.
  176. [11/14/2015 10:17:12 PM] Riot: I'll go ahead and let you do whatever you wish now. Take care, Louis.
  177. [8:18:32 AM] Riot: Morning.
  178. [8:55:16 AM] Riot: Well if you go to sleep before we chat, sleep well.
  179. [8:55:25 AM] Loui: ta.
  180. [8:56:06 AM] Riot: Going to assume I should just leave you alone altogether for a while then?
  181. [8:56:17 AM] Loui: Probably a good assumption.
  182. [8:56:27 AM] Riot: Well, I had to at least try.
  183. [8:56:31 AM] Riot: Take care, Louise.
  184. [8:56:44 AM] Loui: Sadly you can't treat a 'friend' that way one day and be buddy buddy the next.
  185. [8:57:30 AM] Riot: I didn't treat you some weird way, Louise -- nor did I try and just assume everything would be fine.
  186. [8:57:53 AM] Riot: I treated you the same way I would anyone who I wanted to talk to about something important. Respectfully, civilly, and in a direct way.
  187. [8:57:56 AM] Loui: If you think that is the case then I think you have some serious thinking to do before we speak again.
  188. [8:58:31 AM] Riot: I do think that's the case. This is who I am, I've told you that before. I also said that I would avoid the room in the future so that it was less of an issue for you, your room or our friendship.
  189. [8:58:42 AM] Riot: So I'm prepared to do what needs to be done to avoid further conflict.
  190. [8:59:22 AM] Riot: I just wanted to let you know I was still around and that the decision to avoid the room wasn't meant to sever contact between us.
  191. [8:59:54 AM] Loui: Well I don't feel that you respect me or anything I do regarding my room. And that just isn't a basis for a good friendship.
  192. [9:00:26 AM] Riot: Louise, I want to ask you a good question - a hypothetical.
  193. [9:00:40 AM | Edited 9:00:50 AM] Riot: If I walked into your house and I believed that your cat was sick and told you so -- is that an overreach?
  194. [9:01:17 AM] Loui: And by your standards you would probably say 'Louis, are you ignoring your cat even though it obviously appears sick?'
  195. [9:01:36 AM] Riot: That's not an answer.
  196. [9:01:39 AM] Riot: I'm asking --
  197. [9:01:40 AM] Loui: Because you don't inform, or guide. You judge. You overlook.
  198. [9:01:57 AM] Riot: Would you consider me telling you I thought your cat was sick to be an overreach?
  199. [9:02:11 AM] Loui: If you asked me like a normal decent person with regard to my feelings and on a level of respect expected between two people, then no. Because you would be being kind and caring.
  200. [9:02:16 AM] Loui: Unfortunately, that isn't how you work.
  201. [9:02:25 AM] Riot: I'm caring about you as it is.
  202. [9:02:38 AM] Loui: No, your trying to control me.
  203. [9:02:42 AM] Loui: Moderate.
  204. [9:02:55 AM] Riot: Have I ever asked you to do anything?
  205. [9:02:58 AM] Riot: Ever?
  206. [9:02:59 AM] Loui: Yes.
  207. [9:03:03 AM] Riot: What did I ask you to do?
  208. [9:03:08 AM] Loui: Tell you what happened
  209. [9:03:10 AM] Loui: Give you details
  210. [9:03:12 AM] Loui: Consider I might be wrong
  211. [9:03:23 AM] Riot: - Chinrub. -
  212. [9:03:26 AM] Loui: Explain things to you that you have no right to know
  213. [9:03:32 AM] Riot: I'll give you that, I did ask you for information.
  214. [9:03:38 AM] Riot: But did I ever ask you to take any actions?
  215. [9:03:46 AM] Loui: Yes.
  216. [9:03:51 AM] Riot: ?
  217. [9:03:52 AM] Loui: Not to trust my moderators or people in general.
  218. [9:03:58 AM] Riot: No, I didn't say not to trust people.
  219. [9:04:03 AM] Riot: I said not to have blind faith.
  220. [9:04:11 AM] Riot: And that was advice, I wasn't telling you.
  221. [9:04:32 AM] Loui: You told me not to
  222. [9:04:35 AM] Loui: Not that I shouldn't.
  223. [9:04:49 AM] Riot: We're arguing over semantics. -.-;
  224. [9:05:12 AM] Riot: I'm trying to say that I have never directly asked you to do or not do something that wasn't a concept or just asking for information.
  225. [9:05:14 AM] Riot: Ever.
  226. [9:05:16 AM] Loui: You want to try defend yourself after stepping out of your boundaries, I'm not going to let you fight your way to being right.
  227. [9:05:35 AM] Loui: The way you are treating me in regards to my room and choices, is wrong.
  228. [9:05:43 AM] Loui: You're acting like you are the owner and I'm a naughty mod.
  229. [9:05:57 AM] Riot: No, I'm acting like I'm a concerned friend who is looking at a ship that is beginning to list.
  230. [9:06:06 AM] Loui: Alright, how about this.
  231. [9:06:19 AM] Riot: I'm just a passenger on the ship, or I was.
  232. [9:06:19 AM] Loui: Send our entire conversation to somebody of mutual friendship, and ask them if you were in the right.
  233. [9:06:29 AM] Riot: Okay, who?
  234. [9:06:39 AM] Loui: Atasha.
  235. [9:06:42 AM] Riot: She's a mod.
  236. [9:06:59 AM] Riot: We would have to find a mutual friend who isn't biased.
  237. [9:07:47 AM] Loui: Well, seeing as you seem to think she would be bias. Who then.
  238. [9:08:06 AM] Riot: I think that she has an automatic bias because she's a mod. Who do you consider your friends to be?
  239. [9:09:27 AM] Loui: My mods, thus them being my mods.
  240. [9:09:38 AM] Riot: Anyone else?
  241. [9:09:49 AM] Loui: I don't really speak to anybody else enough
  242. [9:10:21 AM] Riot: Well Cosima and Brad are incredibly biased against anything I'd have to say due to their own past experiences.
  243. [9:10:39 AM] Riot: I consider Kamen a friend but it sounds like you aren't friends with him, or I'd honestly suggest him.
  244. [9:10:52 AM] Loui: I am friends with him, but he is ill and doesn't need this pety crap on his plate.
  245. [9:11:21 AM] Riot: It would depend on whether his thoughts on it brought drama to him or not.
  246. [9:11:27 AM] Riot: But I agree altogether, yes.
  247. [9:11:49 AM] Loui: Actually, never mind. Even with proof I doubt you would accept you are stepping over the line.
  248. [9:21:30 AM] Riot: If those were the terms of the agreement, I would naturally be bound to them.
  249. [9:21:42 AM] Loui: Being bound changes not an opinion.
  250. [9:22:17 AM] Riot: It wouldn't make me think I was wrong subjectively but it would perhaps become more obvious that I was wrong objectively.
  251. [9:22:41 AM] Loui: Thus my point. I can't really work around this weird controlling need you have that seems to place in shoes you don't fit.
  252. [9:23:26 AM] Riot: The point of contention is that those shoes aren't not only my own but anyone's to step in.
  253. [9:23:40 AM] Loui: No, they aren't
  254. [9:23:47 AM] Riot: And thus our debate.
  255. [9:23:48 AM] Loui: The only people with those shoes are the mods.
  256. [9:24:10 AM] Loui: You either need to accept it and stand down, learning to approach things from a more respectful level or I don't think we can continue communicating.
  257. [9:24:24 AM] Riot: You're putting your room above our friendship, Louise.
  258. [9:24:34 AM] Riot: I've told you that I'll discontinue commenting on it and even being in it.
  259. [9:24:38 AM] Loui: No, I'm regarding the way you treat me.
  260. [9:24:48 AM] Riot: No, you aren't.
  261. [9:24:54 AM] Riot: I'm telling you that I'll leave the issue alone.
  262. [9:25:08 AM] Riot: You want me to bow down to you as unquestioned head and I'm telling you that I'll just make it a nonissue.
  263. [9:25:10 AM] Loui: That doesn't magically make it go away, Dig. You still treated me that way and showed just how much you respect me.
  264. [9:25:12 AM] Riot: Somehow that isn't good enough.
  265. [9:25:50 AM] Riot: That's not at all what it means.
  266. [9:26:08 AM] Loui: But you are expecting me to just move on
  267. [9:26:12 AM] Loui: After you have done this to me, twice.
  268. [9:26:20 AM] Riot: About the same subject.
  269. [9:26:28 AM] Riot: Which would be removed if we simply... stopped talking about it.
  270. [9:26:34 AM] Loui: No, it wouldn't.
  271. [9:26:40 AM] Loui: You can't change the way you made me feel.
  272. [9:26:52 AM] Loui: How rude you were to me. I was happy to let it go once. But twice? That's not an accident.
  273. [9:29:29 AM] Riot: I can't wait until we find a person to judge this.
  274. [9:29:43 AM] Loui: You can do that on your own. I'm done.
  275. [9:31:28 AM] Riot: So what changed your mind?
  276. [9:31:44 AM] Loui: You won't be swaywed.
  277. [9:31:51 AM] Loui: Nothing done will change the way you feel you can treat me.
  278. [9:32:21 AM] Loui: I get enough shit in life, I don't need somebody I considered a friend treating me like a stupid child.
  279. [9:32:22 AM] Riot: I already agreed with the idea that if a neutral party said I Was wrong, I'd accept it.
  280. [9:32:32 AM] Loui: You'd accept, not confirm you were wrong.
  281. [9:32:46 AM] Loui: Just forget it Dig. I'm done. I don't need this.
  282. [9:33:28 AM] Riot: I really can't wait until you see.
  283. [9:33:49 AM] Riot: Would you accept it?
  284. [9:33:57 AM] Riot: If we found a neutral party, could you accept it?
  285. [9:34:12 AM] Loui: Perhaps you didn't hear me.
  286. [9:34:34 AM] Riot: Whatever then, Louise.
  287. [9:34:43 AM] Riot: You'll understand soon enough what I tried to warn you about.
  288. [9:34:51 AM] Loui: That you're a control freak?
  289. [9:34:58 AM] Riot: I'm not a control freak.
  290. [9:35:03 AM] Riot: That's just you projecting.
  291. [9:35:05 AM] Loui: Okay.
  292. [9:35:12 AM] Riot: Sorry, but. - shrug -
  293. [9:35:24 AM] Loui: I wonder how many people you have to treat like shit before you figure it out.
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