Ken vs Wap

Ken versus Wap
Round 2
Response 1

Wap
* Stat posting
* Julius Strength > Grievous Strength
* Any kind of combat engagement favors Julius absurdly
* Grievous just does not exert large amounts of force with straight strikes, Julius does.
* The electrostaff would just break on Julius
* Josuke cannot take a hit from 058.
* Josuke interacts with 058's attacks in a way that will get him/his stand hit.
* Josuke needs many hits to harm 058.
* Josuke will INHERENTLY get hit by 058 from in-character interactions.
* Josuke needs many tries to actually kill 058
* Wyald and Bionic Man get into an intense H2H engagement that favors Bionic Man getting hits in, they're both pretty strong.
* Bionic Man uses his speed more efficiently in this engagement.
* How Wyald takes hits is vague, questionable. How Bionic Man takes hits is clear and good.
* Wyald doesn't really dodge
* BM actually dodges and stuff
* Wyald's durability is wonky
* BM is more objective
* BM is fast

Ken
* Grievous is incredibly hard for Julius to hit.
* Grievous easily hurts Julius.
* Grevious is faster than Julius
* Julius' speed is not quanitified
* Grevious is bigger than Julius and thus has better range
* Grievous has the advantage in speed, he out ranges Julius in a way that makes it impossible for him to leverage any strength he may have, and Julius has no experience fighting anything like Grievous.
*  Julius literally never dodges
* Grevious CAN take hits
* 058 is 3 meters out of reach, not 3 meters literally.
* 058 literally has no reaction speed nor travel speed.
* Josuke is actually provably fast in comparison.
* 058 has some pretty heinous anti-feats.
* Wyald has better range
* Wyald is faster
* Wyald has comparable strength to BM, but this is arguably a fight of "man with a club versus man without a club".

Round 2
Wap
* Grevious isn't fast, moreso he has many limbs
* "visually fast" means basically nothing and Grievous still makes impractical,
* Grevious is not going to be fighting in his weird fighting style due to how he acted when he had a staff
* Height is an advantage Grievous does not use effectively.
* Julius is fast due to scaling
* Julius Does Durable
* 058 whips tentacle once and Josuke dies.
* Josuke doesn't KO it before this.
* Ken's wincons require really absurd assumptions of character action, starting conditions, and initiating hits.
* Stipulation/Rule shit
* Ken's wincons rely heavily on the assumption 058 stands stock still and does nothing while Josuke takes many, many actions.
* 058 does not have insanely good speed, but it still has speed that makes it relevant and that's all it needs
* Josuke's speed is either vague or just not established
* Who cares if 058 can't gigapierce metal via tentacles, Josuke is not metal.
* The anti-feats of 058 don't actually matter in context to this fight
* Josuke doesn't hit as hard as claimed
* Bionic Man still makes better use of his speed than Wyald.
* Wyald's ability to take any hit is still suspect.
* Wyald fights in a way conductive to getting himself hit.
* There's no real way to substantiate the difference to a superhumanly strong character unless there's a demonstrable difference in feats.
* Wyald is a reactive fighter and won't take initiative
* The guts scaling is suspect

Ken
* The Julius chain scaling is fake due to a ton of context
* Julius is also just slower than Waka who is just slower than Ohma
* Grevious doesn't use the staff badly nor is he inefficient about height usage
* Julius is not fast enough to actually grab and beat up Grevious
* Grevious jumps are giga strong
* Grevious can just combo win Julius to death
* Josuke is fast even assuming his enemies are at speeds of meme slow
* Josuke also has to be fast movement wise for any logical sense in the bus feat
* Theres no evidence 058 could take a punch from Crazy Diamond let alone 12 dozen of them like my opponent claims.
* Josuke and various fuse feats.
* Guts feat is real
* BM is slow
* Wyald club good

Conclusion:
Okay, I actually wanna give you guys both a pat on the back. Both sides of the debate went back and forth in a manner without any notably heinous points being dropped, and I changed my mind several times throughout this exchange which really speaks well about the quality of debate which was here. Here are my thoughts.

Grievous versus Julius: Winner is Grevious. I think Julius' speed was called into question well enough, and while Ken's arguments regarding Grevious' speed are not wholly ironclad, I think he was able to make Grevious eek out a bit better than his counterpart.

Josuke versus 058: Winner is Josuke. What really 058 was the suspect speed feats, and I would say that Josuke being able to actually perform multiple actions before it gets to do any. Ken also makes a point about blunt versus gunfire/incapacitation via rubble, and how 096 takes it.

Wyald versus Bionic Man: Winner is Bionic Man. I don't really buy Ken's deconstruction of BM's speeds to be honest, though they made me suspect about his consistency. What sold me on this one is that Wap was able to say that BM was arguably the more intelligent fighter, and I do buy the notion they are of comparable stats. While it is true that this is "man without a club versus man with a club", Wyald's durability overall seems a bit more suspect and I'd would say even if BM would be hit by Wyald, BM can continue to fight at least somewhat whereas the reverse is far less true.

Ken is the overall winner but Wap did a good job regardless.