masmasmamsmasmamsas

welcome to the mating grounds podcast
hosted by Tucker max
that information is like worth fucking
gold to God
what should I be will initiate a
conversation other than be a normal
movie gauge feedback that's what I tell
young guys all the time
[Music]
this episode is sponsored by book hacker
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dotnet and now here's your host Tucker
max all right so this episode we're
going to talk about mental health right
and this is different than intelligence
we're talking about sort of emotional
mental health and why that matters to
women and how to display sort of a good
mental health alright so like here's the
basic principle crazy is not sexy okay
women do not like guys who are
schizophrenic who are severely depressed
who have work severely narcissistic or
sociopathic who have Asperger's well OCD
ad D etc etc etc addictions addictions
are you know mental health issues none
of these are generally attractive to
women okay listen
almost everything we say you can I'm
sure you can point out one exception
this is whatever it is it's the
exception that proves the rule and
you're not gonna find girls being like
well this one girl likes the pressed
girls all right well great she's
probably depressed too so you guys can
pair up but the vast majority of people
women are not going to respond to to
sort of unstable mental health so doc
terminal why don't you talk for a second
maybe about the basic ideas of what good
mental health is and why it matters to
women it's kind of obvious in a way but
actually when you think about it there's
some subtlety to it well you know a lot
of these mental disorders like actual
disorders schizophrenia bipolar or major
depression and autism they're highly
genetic right so one thing women are
kind of looking out for unconsciously is
is this guy carrying some genes that
predispose him to mental illness it
could be passed on to my kids and that's
it's unconscious but that's one thing
women are looking for when they've got
they're kind of creep detection radar
active right yeah a second thing is
women want a good partner you know guys
who are depressed
don't make good boyfriend's right there
there pal one-night stands you know yeah
they're not a good anything they're not
good and bad they're not good in
conversation what do they have to offer
right from a woman's point of view it's
a huge time sockets and energy saying
get right
so good mental health is attractive
because it kind of shows good genes good
partner you'll be a good dad in the
future if she has kids with you and and
that's really important because you know
in modern America young men typically
have some kind of mental health issues
and they could do better they could take
better care of their mental health and
just like physical health a lot of guys
need to just put a little more effort
into this right so again this is not
anecdote this is not us just saying oh
here's what we think there is a ton of
very good empirical data that shows that
women are very unattractive to poor
mental health and very attracted to good
mental health now there's five sort of
indicators of mental health that if you
can be good at one or two of these
you're gonna be way more attractive but
if you hit all five you're like you can
you can get a lot of other things wrong
if you get these right so they are humor
playfulness openness mental resilience
and happiness and we're gonna go through
and talk about each five what they are
how to show them etc let's start with
humor right so we've talked about this
on previous podcasts humor is one of the
most important things you can do to be
attractive to women because humor shows
if you're fumer isn't an honest signal
we've talked about this many times
signals and honest signals you cannot
fake humor you're either funny or you're
not humor shows intelligence it shows
good mental health
it shows social awareness so dr. Miller
talk for just for a second on the
genetic sort of basis for this for humor
and why women are so naturally all women
and all cultures are naturally attracted
to funny guys yeah I mean this is where
there's a little bit of a disconnect
between like the published scientific
literature versus if you talk one-on-one
with psychiatrists and clinical
psychologists so I've collaborated with
a lot of
people who deal with mental health
issues every day and the psychiatrist's
I talked to say look if I'm seeing a
patient and they were doing badly but
they come in and suddenly they've got a
sense of humor I know they're getting
better I know the medicines working I
know whatever they're doing is improving
their mental health so it's a really
sensitive indicator to your psychiatrist
it's also a really sensitive indicator
to women because they unconsciously kind
of know this if you're psychotic it's
really hard to make people laugh in a
way that they find is actually funny and
attractive right they might laugh at you
but not with you humor requires you
understand the other person's beliefs
and desires you understand social norms
and you can violate them just a little
bit but not in a threatening way it
requires a quick wit so you're actively
listening you're engaging jokes we days
later no environment yeah right and it's
really hard to do that if you have any
of the major mental disorders yep so
this is one reason why you know people
who study humor think wow it's it's a
high bar to set if you can be
consistently funny and witty in
one-on-one conversation with women it's
almost like a guarantee that you don't
have major mental health problems
exactly so we're gonna do one I think at
least one podcast with some comedians I
think Niels and maybe a comedian about
how to be funny
for a guy but let's talk we can we can
go deep or go a little bit into that on
this podcast
now when you say funny you don't mean
you have to be you know Richard Pryor or
Chris Tucker and his prime or you know
louis c.k you don't have to be an
incredibly center of attention like
stand-up comic funny that's that's
actually not what you're talking about
because in a lot of ways that being a
stand-up comic on the stage is great but
if you are in a group of people talking
you know at a bar or a social event and
you sure giving a monologue you're a
fucking weirdo that's not funny that's
really weird so what are some ways that
guys can be funny that you can think of
especially ways that I've been studied
it's like okay this is clearly a way to
be funny you know I mean the key thing
is like even if you're just texting with
a woman is not to respond to the literal
content of everything she says but just
have a humorous playful mindset right
you're playing with language so if she
asks you a question
there's no moral obligation to respond
directly right you can respond playfully
you can kind of deliberately slightly
misinterpret what she says and that
shows a you're confident enough in
yourself as a man that you know you'll
get to her question eventually right but
on your own schedule and you know if if
her response is lol rather than what
then you know you've succeeded but she's
got a good sense of humor there's some
other ways to be funny uh like point out
absurdities right you don't have to do
anything but if you point like you know
some restaurant you know charges I don't
know like they have some weird charging
scheme you're like how does that make
sense and you make a joke about it or if
you see someone doing something
ridiculous right and point it out you
don't have to be mean and tease other
people although that can work it's much
more about pointing out absurdities is
one way to be funny another way to be
funny is I mean having a couple jokes
you know you don't have to everyone has
at least two or three or four memorized
jokes right which is fine telling jokes
is always funny make sure though they're
appropriate you know like for the time
so you know maybe knock-knock jokes for
nineteen year old girls probably isn't
the best way to go unless you can pull
that off and some people can but um you
know for you know for if you're in a
certain social situation you work at
Microsoft or something I'm sure there's
a bunch of Steve Ballmer jokes who knows
right so that's a very socially
appropriate to that person whereas
Microsoft joke to someone who works you
know in rental cars in Florida is not
going to be that funny right so
memorizing jokes pointing out
absurdities I would say with any other
type of humor you need to be careful
simply because it's much easier to to
screw humor up than it is to get it
right which is why it's so effective
it's an honest signal
it's a high risk high gain tactic
exactly so here's here's something I
tell guys that if you're not naturally
funny memorize learn how to point out a
couple what I would actually watch a
bunch of comedians write watch is easy
Ansari or pick your favorite comedian
observational comedy one or two things
over the course of a date is not hard
now if you think you have to be funny
every 10 minutes that's really hard you
don't if you actually there's I think
there's been studies done about this but
if you actually look at what women think
when women think guys are funny in
person you actually break down how many
funny things they said or did there's
like three things in the course of a
night it's not a high bar to hit
that's one observations at one joke you
know or one observation and two jokes or
something like that or one observation
one joke and then one might quip now if
you're really bad at that then I would
recommend there's two big things I would
do one is one's harder than the other
the hard one is finding a group of
friends who are funny and just hanging
out with them and you'll learn how to be
funny by imitating them and what's cool
about having male friends that are funny
is you can fucking hear all your jokes
can fall flat on their face it's no big
deal and then they bust on you for that
and that's funny
right you can't lead back exactly you're
getting feedback that was actually how I
became a great writer honestly or I
became a funny effective writer is I
wrote stuff sent it to my friends my
friends were all writers too and over
email we'd go back and forth and they
would break my fucking balls for
anything that wasn't great and it I took
that feedback and it became sort of how
I refined amuse deliberate practice I
would find what I was doing now not all
guys are good with socially or can find
friends or whatever that's fine I cannot
recommend this highly enough though
improv improv classes or acting classes
but specifically improv classes because
they are designed to make you accept
whatever premises exist and then extend
them or make a joke about them right and
improv classes are designed to teach
people who are not good at speaking
quickly or thinking of things quickly or
being funny they teach you how to do it
and they have a
very set structure there's a couple of
really good improv teachers I think we
might end up bringing on the podcast
later improv will also help you
substantially with sort of social
conversation social interaction
observing other people understanding
other people these are all things that
young guys especially need to get better
at if you want to be better be good with
women is understanding people yeah
motional expressiveness nonverbal
gestures and using your body in a funny
way right it'll teach all that improv is
fantastic and as an added benefit it's a
great way to meet girls we're gonna say
this again and again and dive deep it in
a later podcast into this subject but
going to bars and clubs is one of the
worst places you can go to meet girls
absolutely one of the worst in almost
every way improv class is one of the
best because you are put in a situation
where it's 10 to 15 people you have to
get to know each other you have to
interact with each other so it's
expected it's not awkward at all
everyone's a little bit insecure because
no one's good at it so if you have a
little bit of courage even if you're not
good if you have a little bit of courage
all of a sudden you look good and you're
in front of it usually more girls than
guys and so it's like if it's six girls
and for guys then the ratio is really
good and all you have to do is be better
than two or three of those guys and
you're one of the hottest guys in her
and in in a immediate area of six girls
that's a fantastic way to meet girls
I think this leads really good into
number two which is playfulness maybe
you want like one more thing about humor
first guys another key way to display
good humor is just be able to talked
about your own life in a way that's
funny right and this is the story of
Tucker's whole career really Yeah right
it's Tucker's book sold millions because
it's funny stories about his life so if
a woman asks you about your background
your family your education you should be
able to explain it in a way that is
amusing subtly self-deprecating right
self-deprecating humor where you kind of
make them a little bit of fun of
yourself yes that's really powerful
we've done Studies on this it's very
attractive to women generally speaking
the more high-status what you're doing
is the more you need to be
self-deprecating about it and the more
attractive that is now so deprecating
does not mean put yourself down
oh I went to you know like some crappy
school in the Northeast what's it called
Harvard didn't you sound like a fucking
asshole
right it doesn't mean putting yourself
down it means being like yeah I went to
Harvard I'm sorry I don't want to drop
the h-bomb like every other asshole
there goes the Harvard does but I did
actually go and then it's like okay she
laughs at the fact that you're making
fun of the fact that everyone that went
to Harvard is a pompous dick about
having gone there right that's a good
example of something that's
self-effacing without being almost like
putting yourself down but keep going
yeah like for me when I talk about going
to grad school at Stanford I'll usually
talk about I drove the shittiest car at
Stanford like a 1981 Pontiac that had
like its belts just squealed
every time I parked in the Oval and you
know that's the right way to talk about
it you kind of yes say okay I went to
Stanford whatever I'm proud of that but
there's this other aspect of that part
of my life that's kind of hilarious and
funny and like cops would actually pull
me over in this Pontiac and think I was
like a coke addict or something and I'd
explain oh actually I'm a cycle I'm a
psych PhD student and and then the cops
would be like okay you're free to go sir
now we now we understand why you're
driving such an appalling vehicle
vehicle right right so yes I forgot
about that actually being
self-deprecating is a great way to be
funny because making fun of yourself as
long as just don't do it all the time if
you do it constantly then it becomes
depressing right so so like if you
serious sad things don't be
self-deprecating about you can make
jokes that some people can do that I'd
be careful with that but it's basically
the rule of thumb is the more impressive
what you do is or what you've done is or
the more available it is for jokes the
more you need to make a joke about it
like it's not impressive that he had a
shitty car but it is funny so if you
recognize it and bring it up then the
girl doesn't hold you against it in fact
you get a hold as it doesn't hold it
against you you get points because you
you're the one who pointed out how
ridiculous your fucking car is and then
everyone laughs and in the back of her
mind she's like oh this guy's so funny
which triggers like six attraction sort
of a check marks and
in the mammalian brain and also so
self-deprecation shows specifically
you're not super narcissistic as
narcissistic guys can't make fun of
themselves and psychopaths sociopaths
also are not good at making fun of
themselves so if you do a little self
deprecation you know it kind of shows
I'm not a narcissist I'm not a sociopath
well Pisan I said pointed out absurdity
you can point them out in yourself as
well right all right so playfulness so
playfulness is very similar to humor but
not exactly the same thing once you talk
for a second about what playfulness
shows to women and then we'll kind of
get into how to be more playful I mean
humans are really weird species because
you know if you look at other primates
they're super playful when they're young
like young chimps young orangutans
they'll play a little role play chasing
play fighting they'll tease each other
they're funny and then they had sexual
maturity puberty and they become dead
serious they just stop playing right
right
humans are unique really and that we
keep playing into adulthood right
we kind of have fun with you we CH with
each other we have games and sports and
we tease and we do a lot of stuff that
juvenile primates do to each other right
and that's really attractive to women
you know adult human playfulness is one
of the main ways we interact with kids
if you're a playful guy on a date a
woman automatically instinctively thinks
wow he would be fun with kids if he was
a dad at some point and the fun with me
yeah and he's fun with me yep women
don't just want to have fun but they
want to have fun and if you're playful
in the improv comedy class or in the
grocery store you're also going to be
playful in bed and that will be fun so
there's a ton of different ways to be
playful like so let's just start
obviously being playful displays all of
the positive attributes very similar as
humor they're very closely aligned not
exactly the same thing but they're very
closely aligned so playful people aren't
depressed they're not sociopath etc we
talked about that but um the ways to be
playful if you're not naturally very
playful if you're kind of stiff then
right take improv class
really help you you can go places that
are that are playful so you can actually
go to an improv class on a date like
watch other people perform it's usually
really funny
you can watch stand-up comics perform
that's funny you can go do things that
are playful you know like I did I can't
tell you how many girls on dates I've
taken to chucky cheese and it's like
obviously like a first you like what the
fuck that's super weird but then we go
play skee-ball and we like do all kinds
of stuff and the girl usually within the
first thirty minutes is like ecstatic
because she's like when's the last time
an adult went and did little kid things
right but little kid things are usually
really fucking fun that's why kids do
them exactly and so I've done that many
times and it's funny because they don't
also I'll make a joke I like oh we're
gonna go to Chuck E Cheese you knew I
was a pedophile right is that okay
that's playful that's self-deprecating
that it's funny right because obviously
it's absurd
follow I would like that's all absurd
you have to laugh at it because it's
like what the fuck right well we're
gonna go pick up some little kids and
maybe have a threesome or something like
you know you like make those jokes all
the time it works for me might not work
for everybody with every girl but it
absolutely works for me but what's fun
is and then you get super competitive
and skee-ball and it's like you have a
little tickets and you get little like
toys and there's stupid crappy toys but
they have meaning and then it's like you
you're funny you're playful you're doing
something new with her it's really crazy
depressed people would never do that
ever right yeah and remember inside
every whatever 22 year old woman there's
a little girl who misses playing just
like a boy band if you can bring that
out in her and she feels
oh man the whole bird and I have seen a
good time the whole burden of trying to
be a sexy woman is lifted from me yep
and I actually connected to him like
eight-year-old boy playing with
eight-year-old girl playfulness also
rate that that's yeah that's huge it
also shows warmth which is one of the
key aspects of charisma we're gonna have
a whole podcast maybe multiple ones on
charisma but basically charisma breaks
down to do you display effectiveness and
warmth combined which is really hard to
do but the only people the only men who
are playful either
our juveniles or very warm right you're
not a juvenile if you're listening this
I hope I hope you're on 12 listen this
shit but actually maybe twelve-year-old
getting ready but uh but eight-year-olds
aren't listening this that's juvenile
right if you are like a grown man with
adult responsibilities and it's
accomplishments but you can still play
that's a great display of warmth it's
extremely charismatic and attractive so
so again you can always take girls
places to be playable so how are you
playful like in person well there's a
bunch of different ways teasing is sort
of sort of humor sort of playful you've
got to be careful with teasing it's
really easy for guys that don't
understand women to take it overboard
right but like there's different you
know things you know okay so like I do
this all the time I'll be like walking
down the street with a girl you know and
like we'll see we'll see you know some
homeless guy in a black guy your
boyfriend looks your ex-boyfriend looks
really bad since you broke up with them
or something she's like what it's like
laughs and it's not making fun of the
homeless guy it's making fun of her ex
it's being playful right or you know
like are you standing in line it depends
how well you know the girl but let's say
you're standing in line to go somewhere
and she's in front of you and then
there's some weird I were in front of
her right and you just kind of like
subtly push her like you know like take
her arm and like push it up to his butt
or something like that right and like
shake don't do that like feel like freak
out and like but it's like a funny
playfulness no guys don't just grab
random girls and push them into other
people it's not funny
that's not playful you have to read the
situation understand it if she's into
playfulness right it's okay the other
way that girls can be into blue like
girls don't the more she feels safe with
you the more playful you can be so you
need to establish generally take this
order if you're funny she's gonna feel
safe with you and then you can become
more playful right and just test a
little bit a little bit here a little
bit this a little bit that and the more
she's into it the more you know some
girls just aren't funny and playful they
just don't like that stuff okay don't do
it you know if if you don't care no big
deal if you're playful too then that's
something
girl for you alright um but you know we
should also talk about this good place
to bring up drugs because that's what
drugs do is make people more playful
yeah yeah so well you probably know a
little more about alcohol than me
well yes but yeah I mean one key reason
why people drink alcohol as adults is it
kind of progresses them a little bit
right and dis inhibits them it makes
them a little more playful for me it
just makes me depressed which is why I
don't drink much but a lot of guys they
drink and they get playful yeah and in
moderation right that can be super
effective it it makes mild introverts
into mild extroverts it it makes you
kind of a little Dumber but in a
creative constructive annoying obtuse
usually somewhere between two to five
drinks it doesn't really make you dumber
so much as it releases your inhibitions
and loosens you up over five is when you
start to get sloppy and stupid generally
speaking with average-sized person
averse I'd shrink etc another way I was
thinking about this playful I do this
all the time with girls like we'll go to
like some store like Target I got to
pick up something right it's so easy to
do ridiculous fun shit and Target right
or Walmart take your favorite store okay
just be walking down the aisle and it
you know like you'll see someone works
there and ask them like a ridiculous
question like hey where are your Faberge
eggs or something they're like what
Fabri what and they said look around for
it and it's like like the girl knows
what a Faberge egg is it's fine that's a
little like sort of pompous right or you
know like just pick up the toys and
start playing with them you know or like
I don't know like all this stuff all
works for me so I'm not necessarily
saying you should do it but I do stuff
all the time where I'm like I'll start
yelling like we can't find something so
I'll just I'll yell oh where is it
cotton balls like stop it like you can't
yell and Target like why not
if you don't do it angry if you do it
like funny it's whatever kind of funny
you can try on ridiculous clothes you
know that aren't meant for you it's just
always funny like like put on a really
tight like shirt like a kid shirt that's
like says something ridiculous like you
know I'm not chubby this is muscle or
something like a baby shirt and you
walk out you look so excited like I
think this is a little tight what do you
think I don't know maybe I could you
know lose some weight and fit and she's
like things like that those are just
examples of being playful right yeah you
and you fit your person these are all
like benignly violating social
conventions so there's a good social
convention against just yelling and
stores randomly but if you yell why are
the fucking cotton balls or don't say
fucking because it's a family story
right where's the cotton balls
nobody's harmed right it violates a
social norm but nobody's harmed and
that's playful exact mom so playfulness
is a mindset it's about seeing your
environment the objects and people
around you as occasions for fun mm-hmm
right not taking them serious and not
even a silly at their expense yeah it's
just like you know the fundamentals of
kid playfulness I'm gonna pretend this
bananas the telephone right right right
or I'll talk to people like you know
we'll go to like restaurants and I'll
talk to them in redneck voice hi where
are these these craps crap is what is
that called or whatever and then they're
like they'll look at me like I'm
retarded which is it new girls that like
to be letting herself laughing or
something and then like it's you know
it's so he's just like you're moron or
like you're right I am I'm sorry and
it's fun everyone laughs right it's sort
of self-deprecating it's playful it's
funny it's all these sorts of things
again these are not like I'm not telling
you to talk like a redneck to get girls
find out what works for you and do it it
totally just depends all right so next
one open this you were actually written
a lot about openness I don't spent you
wrote about it so let's talk about
openness a little bit the openness is a
personality trait openness to experience
it's called right and what it is
associated with is things like interest
in novelty things that are different
interest in foreign travel interests and
aesthetics and the arts you know if
you're highly open you're into a
diversity of different kinds of music
right everything from classical to
dubstep if you're highly open you're
comfortable with foreign travel you're
comfortable interacting with lots of
different kinds of people different
races ethnicities cultural backgrounds
openness tends to correlate with
political liberal
but we're not gonna advocate you become
a little this is oh but this is not like
just kind of very planing why not you
have to vote for Obama what it
correlates with right so there ways to
be highly open you know even if you're
politically conservative even if you
don't like foreign travel it's a mindset
that says I'll give that a try
that looks cool I've never done that
before
meriting new things can you say eating
new things trying new activities trying
a new drink like going to a bar being
like hey Bart sit like some bar that has
specialty cocktails what do you think is
the best thing here it's the whatever
whatever hipster drink fucking weirdos
like let me try that I've never had it
that's simple fucking act I mean it's
not a girl's not gonna go oh I didn't
like him now I want to fuck him because
of that it's just a way to display
openness and what openness does is it
brings excitement and variability and
randomness into a light like we told you
most girls lie most people's lives are
boring and tedious and shitty and if you
can change that in your interactions not
only do you have more fun she has more
fun and girls like to fuck fun guys I'm
sorry and yeah it shows you're not stuck
in your ways and you know god forbid
you're like a 21 year old guy who's
already like Hobbit got by drinking
that's it I got my G&T; and I'm gonna
play World of Warcraft
you know because here's the key thing it
a high quality woman if she's
considering you whether it's a one-night
stand a girlfriend or a husband whatever
you're gonna have to make certain
accommodations for her right your joint
lives together going to be different
from your life as a single guy if you're
highly open that means I'm capable of
adapting to dramatic new life changes
like maybe marriage or having kids or
living together or moving to a different
city if you're young guy and you're
already set in your ways that's that's
scary to a woman because that means what
I see is what I get from most women
there are some who are if she's not open
at all and you're not open you guys are
probably a good match actually but
you're right
women don't like that example like I I
do this all the time with girls is I'll
I mean I have a girlfriend now but like
when I was single I do this all the time
is is be like you know you know if you
if you're in this sort of phase where
your dating phase where you're going to
dinner you know with girls like not
everyone is in that phase but um whether
it wherever you're picking a place to go
whether it's a bar to meet or it's a
place of good whatever to get dinner
what I used to do sometimes if I was
like if I didn't know where I wanted you
know the first like I'd ask a girl you
know is there anywhere you know blah
blah and then the most girls like no you
pick you know because they want you to
show decisiveness that that's a
different podcast will cover why most of
the time girls want you to pick but um
what I would do is I'd be like all right
I've never been to this place I heard
good things how would you like to go
yeah like I almost 90 I effect I
hard-pressed to think of a time where a
girl wasn't like that sounds cool you
know or hey there's this new food truck
you want to try it or there's this new X
nu X almost anything unless it's
something she hates is she's like oh no
I'm allergic to shellfish so I don't
want to go to the oyster bar that makes
sense right that's not you know openness
that she doesn't want to dive in a
flaccid anaphylactic shock but like
anything like that and also if it sucks
it's not your fault people even you get
to make a joke about it yeah and you can
be self-deprecating and you can go do
something else
openness is partly attractive because it
puts you in challenging new situations
and that lets you show your emotional
resilience if things go wrong right
which is though it's it's almost like
you're setting yourself up in a kind of
high-risk situation where hey maybe the
food truck does suck right well how do
you cope with that the woman wants to
know how you cope with stress because if
you're over a poor body what alright
would you do you go back to the trunk of
your car and get out your your battering
ram
m16 you shoot the thing up right what
else would you do so she's gonna she
kind of likes those high
stress situations because it shows what
you're made of right when when the shit
hits the fan so open this works on
several levels and people who are
depressed people who are psychotic know
open hate open it they know right
alright so which leads into the next one
resilience and adapt adaptability okay
so this is one of those weird things
where it's like a lot of people they
hear this but they don't really know
what it means why don't you explain like
on maybe on a sort of genetic level what
what you're talking about on a human
level before we get into sort of
specific examples it's kind of a form of
emotional intelligence right so if
you're highly adaptable what that means
is something horrible happened some
challenge pops up in the environment
that that kind of sucks that you need to
cope with how do you cope with it how do
you manage your own emotional responses
to it if you crumble right right if you
get a flat tire something wrong right
he's not gonna be a track so and why not
because she hates you or she suddenly
hates it it's because she knows wow this
generalizes across situations so he
crumbles when there's a flat tire what's
he gonna be like if I get cancer or if
our kid has an accident or if something
actually seriously goes wrong right any
any kind of long-term relationship is
gonna have those challenges I'll tell
you I've never I can think of many
situations where I've just been out with
a girl on something random happened like
someone you know there was a car wreck
across the street or whatever some crazy
thing that demon of all of us or they
did involve us you know flat tire or
whatever and I really like I mean I'm a
pretty capable effective guy pretty much
all areas of my life not all but most
areas of my life and I just reacted my
normal way
which is whatever handled the situation
said whatever needed to be done I just
did it I didn't really think about it
and pretty much every single time the
girl was like super turned on and or was
like wow that was so cool or what and
it's not like and it's not like I'm
going out looking for car wrecks on date
so I
well people something it's just whenever
that stuff happened it sort of it was
always it was always beneficial and then
the I can think of a couple times
actually where something happened and I
didn't react well and it didn't turn out
well like like they're come like once
I'm at a restaurant I can think of like
I got really I got really pissed off at
this waiter for something and there's
ways to deal with waiters that are
effective and ineffective and I let my
anger get the best of me and dealt with
it in a very ineffective way and she was
like take me home not good but that's
like the only time stalkers ever lost
his temper in a restaurant well if I'm
with a girl I've known for a long time
it's a different thing I'm talking about
more sort of beginning type of
relationships anyway so here's the thing
with resilience and adaptability if
you're mentally healthy and some sort of
problem happens it doesn't even matter
I'm not gonna go out we're not saying
hey you gotta be James Bond or MacGyver
know how to fix everything sometimes you
just don't know how to do shit right you
get a flat tire what do you do
are you calm what do you do do you
change it I'll be honest I don't know
how to change the fucking flat tire I
can probably figure it out or I can do
something better I can use my fucking
smart phone and call triple-a and
they'll be there in 15 minutes and do a
better job than I would do right and so
like you know like what do I do I stay
calm do I call triple-a I handled it
immediately and then we just sit in the
car with air conditioning on and make
jokes until it shows up right either way
is okay right probably changing it
really quickly yourself is nine times
out of 10 gonna be more attractive to
the girl I'll be honest I don't know how
to change I've never changed a flat tire
in my fucking life and I don't want to
that's why I have fucking a higher
triple-a right either ways fine though
the point is how do you handle it what's
your emotional state what is your mental
health when a stressful situation occurs
correct that the difference is you know
if you're on a date and something quote
goes wrong write an immature male will
react like oh crap the dates ruined
right the dates ruined she won't look
and this happened to me all the time as
a teenager the dates ruined she hates me
because it didn't go perfectly to plan
and what I didn't understand is
from the woman's point of view golden
opportunity she gets to evaluate your
resilience right and if you step up yep
and you demonstrate hey I handle this
like a man no like an emotionally
fragile boy it's even better than
nothing going wrong on that date it
actually is right the word we are not
telling you to go look for problems
okay just like the during the you know
the self defense discussion we were like
hey go start fights on dates no no not
at least but if you can handle things
that happen what are you little things
right you pull up a restaurant you put
where you're going to dinner the
restaurants closed what do you do then
do you freak out and get pissed off and
act like a weirdo or do you immediately
say alright I think there's two other
places around here let's try that or
what you know I'm saying that shows
resilience and that's very attractive to
women because again that shows
capability and effectiveness which is
and almost if you're trying to figure
out the underlying principle of almost
everything we're saying in when we tell
you things to improve or what to think
about it's essentially are you capable
or effective at life and are you
empathetic and caring that's a woman you
know who thinks yeah and just like you
can practice humor with your guy friends
you can practice resilience in your
ordinary life you don't just have to be
resilient around women right just even
if you're by yourself and you oh you
wanted to eat there it's closed don't
cost it yourself right don't berate
yourself think how James Bond handle
this or whoever whoever your idol is
right how would I show resilience in
that situation if you get into that
habit of responding thinking oh it's not
a big deal
what how else can I handle it mm-hmm
then by the time you're actually on a
date with a woman something happens
you'll have that happen you ask anyone
who's a guy or a girl describe the best
date you've ever been on and a lot of
times there'll be things where there
were disasters that turn that the guy
turned around legitimately like I mean I
can think of some of the best dates I've
ever been on
like you know the girls dress was ruined
because it's some weird thing that
happened or whatever or we're at a bar
and like there was a huge fight and the
bar caught on fire and then we ran into
somewhere like crazy ridiculous things
that you can't plan but you handle well
tend to be because they create high
intensity emotional responses and if you
handle it well
the woman is primed to be very attracted
to your response right and vice-versa
yeah not just and showing resilience in
those challenging situations it's also
what the woman's gonna brag about to her
girlfriends exactly it's memorable right
so think about the other on the other
side like there's no you know dude is
ever like man this is she you know like
the restaurant didn't have they ran out
of coffee and she broke down in tears it
was pretty hot dude I was really no dude
ever says that that's not attractive
this goes both almost everything we're
saying goes both ways at least in
certain ways not exactly the same men
and women are different it's not the
exact same thing but if you think about
it that way then it makes sense so this
all basically I think all for the first
four things we're talking about a lot of
ways kind of blend together to create
overall happiness right so let's talk a
little bit about happiness what does
happiness mean because a lot of people I
think I'll have the wrong impression be
like Oh happiness means I have to be
ecstatic all the time like a fucking
crazy person or something and they don't
really understand what happiness sort of
means there's a huge amount of research
now unhappiness the last twenty years
especially in this field called positive
psychology but basically means
subjective well-being the sense of life
is going well that you're getting
enjoyment out of the daily activities
right happiness is not mania it's not
running around like a mad person but
Gary Busey you know dancing in the
streets or lunatic or it's not even
acting like you're in love which is kind
of a form of mania yes right it can be
just be quiet contentment it can be just
actually chewing and enjoying the taste
of your food rather than just mindlessly
scarfing it down it can be are you
making fun of me you know actually if
Tucker eats really fast like if Tucker
was a dog and a dog
pack he would he would basically get 80%
of any given like carcass that the dog
pack killed yeah so happiness is just
enjoying life and that's hugely
attractive to women because again if
you've got bad mental health you're not
going to enjoy life who wants to be
around sad people it boils down to that
we could talk about all the genetics and
the evolutionary reasons and they're all
true no one wants to be around sad
people so if you're sad like here's the
thing guys it's okay to be sad if you're
sad deal with your sadness and there's a
but we're gonna talk about actually how
to improve your mental health it's if
you you're not the high defect you're
sad but we're just saying if you're
trying to meet women and create
relationships short medium or long with
women
sadness is the not a good strategy will
work there will not work unless you are
like Morrissey and your musician I'm not
sure them sadness doesn't work
alright so let's actually talk I'm we
might have to do a whole separate thing
about this but guys here's one way to
think about happiness is the best way to
be happy is fill your day with lots of
little things that make you happy not
try and get one big thing and there's a
ton of research about this this is not
me just like talking out of my ass if
you have it like if let's say that that
having you know bacon and eggs makes you
happy and that so you have that for
breakfast and that you love great coffee
so you spend a little bit more money on
really good imported whatever coffee so
that so your breakfast is hot this is
good food and coffee right you're happy
you like to work out at noon and there's
a cool place you work out working at an
exercise makes you happy then like you
you have you like to walk down in the
corner store and get a kombucha or
whatever which is like this weird
fermented tea that I drink and that
makes you happy and then whatever like
that there's three other things that you
do that get make you a little bit happy
doing three or four or five little
things each day that make you happy are
going to turn you into a much happier
person than being miserable trying to
like get some accomplishment like I
don't know have the you know a
best-selling book and that's all you
care about everything you do is about
that when it hits you'll be happy for
about a week or two weeks or a month and
then you're it's gonna go away because
the way that our brain chemicals work
the oxytocin the dopamine etc
it's on in our brains they basically
give you a little bump when you get
something that makes you happy
and there goes away so you're better off
small lots of small wins rather than one
big win it's a matter of taking care of
yourself in a way it's like being
compassionate to yourself and figuring
out what actually makes you happy rather
than what you think should make you
happy it's another day so if you can
keep yourself happy that demonstrates
self insight to know yourself as a man
mm-hmm
it demonstrates self compassion yep that
you're kind to yourself and that also
predicts are you gonna be kind to a
girlfriend or two kids or other people
right well let's go let's start talking
about the ways to improve mental health
because I think this is a good way this
be a good way to wrap everything up we
just talked about happiness a little bit
right but the tips were about to give
you basically improve almost every
definitely your happiness definitely
your sort of overall your mood right and
then probably will help not just humor
playfulness resilience but also a bunch
of the other things we're talking about
intelligence etc the first and most
important thing and I'm gonna hammer
this over and over you need to get
fuckin sleep you need eight hours of
sleep there is there's so much research
it's it's not even people research
anymore because it's like boring oh
here's a whole nother piece about how
important sleep is and how crucial it is
to every fuckin thing in your body if
you are not getting eight hours of sleep
you are fuckin yourself I can't
emphasize this enough and don't skip
over this eight hours of good sleep in a
dark room is super crucial and important
it sounds crazy but there's almost
nothing you can do that can help you get
laid more than that if you're like if
you're getting five six hours and you go
bump it to eight you're gonna see an
incredible amount of sort of results
next thing
exercise exercise regulates hormone
levels regulates mood makes you feel
better I don't care what you do exercise
wise we've talked about some exercise
stuff in the past we'll talk about more
another podcast if you want to do
CrossFit do it if you want to run
sprints do it if you don't play Ultimate
Frisbee fine I don't give a shit ping
pong what the fuck ever
it doesn't really matter video games are
not exercise though let's be clear let's
see okay there's no we're gonna start to
getting some nutrition actually eating
right has a huge impact on your huge
tons of studies about you know like
people who have most people most people
in Western diet have bad omega-6 omega-3
sort of balance you increase omega-3
their mood goes through the roof they
feel hundred times better the prison
studies done violence went down in
prison with omega-3 supplementation or
just eat more fish eat more fish
basically cut out sugar and grain like
we've talked about many times or cut as
much as you can of the sugar and grain
and you're gonna feel way better again
on the go to mating grounds calm we have
tons of resources about what to eat how
to exercise how to sleep okay guys the
standard American diet that most of you
are eating this shit is so toxic to your
mental health that there's actually hard
to be anything other than Moody and
depressed dip on it so just cut out the
you know the sodas the soda ice cream
candy car red bread grains grain like
anything that has bread pasta cut that
shit out you will fear that early years
way to smooth out right you'll have
you'll have more resilience kind of
automatically within a week or physical
and mental yeah alright so those are
sort of basic things you don't think
about a mood related but very much
impact mood some other things you can do
if you have a lot of anxiety I would
recommend you for free you can start
meditating there's a ton of books and
resources teaching people how to
meditate meditation is real simple
fucking sit there with your eyes
basically closed pay attention to your
breath and sit with your thoughts
will recommend a bunch of different
resources on meditation you don't need
to read 50 books sit down and be alone
with your thoughts it really helps you
wouldn't believe in there's a ton of
research about this Buddhist monks are
not crazy people that shit really
fucking works if you have deep anxiety
or emotional issues you should really
consider counseling psychotherapy
psychoanalysis some sort of talk therapy
I'm in psychoanalysis I go four times a
week it's helped me so much I can't even
begin to tell you how much has helped
and it's not like I was a fucking crazy
person I was super successful all this
has done is made me more successful at
relationships at women at life at
business at everything alright the next
thing you are essentially the average of
the five people you spend the most
amount of time around so if the five
people you spend the most amount of time
around are crazy depressed sad people
even if you're not that way you're gonna
shade towards that because that's who
you're around I cannot emphasize this
enough spend time around people
ideally find the people you want to be
and spend time around them make those
people your your five friends did you
spend the most time around people that
you want to emulate or be like people
who are doing things you want to do if
you spend time around them you are going
to both consciously and unconsciously
start to emulate them their attitude is
gonna him how do you feel when you're
around someone who's fun and cheery you
feel fun and cheery
those people are great it's not hard to
be fun and cheery if you're around fun
and cheery people all the time that that
there's a ton of studies about this - -
actually the friends of your friends
have more of an impact on your
well-being an emotional state then like
a $15,000 raise at work how crazy is
that - think about the friends of your
friends not even your friends like
because the Friends of your friends
impact your friends which then impact
you second-order impacts are usually
some of the most influential things in
your life and you don't even realize it
yeah and this is also why the 12-step
programs like AAA work right it's not
social proof necessarily that you're
giving yourself over to a higher power
but you're simply spending time around
people who aren't drinking right and
then you will tend not to drink if you
do that right if that's your issue right
if that if you're an alcoholic likewise
if you want to become funny playful and
resilient spend time around people who
are funny playful and resilient and that
will tend to you'll just start soaking
it up because we're such a social
species yeah I mean look if you're just
a rant
helped I don't know how many dudes have
started fucking improv because of me not
even that I do improv like I mean I
don't really even need it but it's a
like I know at least six or seven people
in Austin who started guys all of them
three of them are dating really hot
girls now all of them are happier
all of them have new sets of friends
most of they met through improv and all
of them are like like I mean it's like
improv could be fucking they could be
charging eight times amount they they
could sell improv as a cure for
everything that ails you and like charge
ten times more and these dudes who do
testimonials it's fucking crazy how I
mean like if you take one thing away
from this podcast go do it go take
improv class and also guys think about
all the other social choices that you
make every time you choose a college
class you're not just choosing the
content of the class you're choosing who
are my classmates whose teaching Bryce
one more time if his person would take
this class do I want to be like that
that person would like pre-med Kim
you're gonna be around a bunch of
anxious fucking weirdos yeah pre-meds
who are like cutthroats sociopaths i
yeah I've taken organic chemistry I know
how that goes if you're thinking oh
should I take something on existential
philosophy and Kierkegaard nature think
about who's gonna the worst
yeah do you want to be surrounded by
suicidal nail lists that will not make
you feel better no
likewise choosing a job ask yourself not
just what does it pay but who else works
there uh-huh
who do I surround myself with every day
there are certain jobs where yeah it
pays less but if it builds your social
skills and makes you happy and build
your resilience it's worth doing
absolutely cannot emphasize that enough
all right so to recap emotional health
mental health very very important
foundational for attraction if you are
sad depressed whatever have all these
issues you need to fix them actually
let's talk about that let's end on that
so what about the people to dudes and
they are out there who have real sort of
mental issues like most people most guys
who have depressed sad whatever you can
fix them with sleep and diet and that
kind of stuff the vast majority
90 plus percent but there are those
dudes out there who are born with
neurochemical disorders who are born
with autism or asperger's who like
really have the deck stacked exact
against them
what are those dudes do yeah I encounter
a lot of this I mean I've dealt with
mental health issues a lot in my
extended family you know I have
relatives with bipolar and schizophrenia
and Asperger's and if you're a psych
professor oh my god you teach classes
and then students come to your office
hours with issues and I've had people
come to my office hours you know college
students who've been everything from
like hey prof. sorry I missed the
midterm exam I was kidnapped by rival
drug gang literally this happened this
is New Mexico right this is the home of
Breaking Bad yeah but I kid you not that
happens but people come in literally
suicidal serious depression they start
hearing voices all that stuff happens
first thing to realize is a stop beating
yourself up it's not your fault it's not
your fault a lot of this stuff is highly
genetic it's a role of a genetic dice
you had the misfortune of happening to
inherit these vulnerabilities from your
parents is it their fault no they got
the genes from their parents and so
forth so don't blame yourself don't
blame your parents it's bad luck accept
it deal with it constructively ii
realize the resources to deal with these
things are better than they've ever been
before
right this the psychiatric medications
for dealing with psychosis are way
better than even ten years ago yeah the
range of antidepressants we have is
amazing some of them have you know have
some sexual side effects you want to
look into but generally you know the
meds are awesome compared to 20 years
ago yep I teach clinical psych PhDs
there are literally hundreds of
thousands of people in America who
dedicated their lives and their careers
to helping people like you if you have
mental health problems almost all of
them are well-intentioned a lot of them
really know what they're doing it's
important to pick them go get help find
people particularly who talk about oh I
use evidence-based treatments that works
empirically validated treatments yeah
right that's good and realize also you
might have to go through a couple
different therapists before you find one
you click with stick with it you might
have to try six different psychiatric
meds before you find the right one or
combination it's the this is a game of
patience and resilience and if you stick
with it you will get better yeah so I
think we said in the introduction a few
weeks ago whenever that if you do what
we say you're basically guaranteed
success with women at least you're gonna
do better than you were the only sort of
like caveats are guys some guys are just
really stuck behind the eight-ball with
mental health issues but even those
dudes if you put in the work if you
really commit to improving and it dude
it sucks like I'm not gonna sit it I
don't really have those sorts of mental
health issues but I know people who do
it fucking sucks man it's not fair but
it's like look we all have our problems
you just use force problems and others
you know and you got it you got dealt a
shitty hand but there are ways to
improve and there are ways to live a
happy healthy functioning life and in
fact that's what's crazy is certain
mental health issues can actually be
beneficial in certain ways if you
utilize them correct sort of like I mean
I don't mean to be insulting but
dyslexia can actually be in a paving
though it's an impediment and formal
schooling it can be a benefit you can
turn it to a benefit there there are
ways that that schizophrenics are more
creative there are ways that Mannix you
know make great entrepreneurs there are
you know especially hypomanic there are
ways that like whatever your problem is
there might be certain ways assuming
you've got it under control and manage
it then you could actually use sort of
the disadvantages as advantages and the
more the more self-knowledge you have
about this and the more upfront you are
the better it can work so I've got a lot
of friends who are ask me I worked in it
I worked in a fucking economic stew
apartment for four years they all have
Asperger's honestly there is that they
do not understand humans the social
human social life but the friends I have
who have that who are a little ass beat
and who are upfront about it right who
by way better who when they're in a
conversation say look I do have a bit of
a recent enthusiasm about like the
evolution of mitochondrial DNA if I go
on about that more than six minutes
interrupt me god and I'm like I can take
six minutes about mitochondrial DNA
evolution but yes I there upfront they
say looks by the way humor self
deprecation yeah exactly they're
self-deprecating and like if you're a
little ass be and you're like hey I'm
not very good with social cues help me
out people tend to be people yeah
particularly in America a lot of these
things are a lot less stigmatized than
they used to be yeah mm-hm I totally
agree
mmm and this is why women take
psychology classes this is why 70% of
psych majors or women are women a lot of
women are very interested in these
things and they're kind of fascinated by
it so if you have a little bit of a
mental health challenge and you manage
it well and you overcome it that can
actually be attractive because it shows
a kind of higher and higher order Raziel
and willpower which we're gonna get to a
power chose intelligence I research it
on doubt about it you know I have
friends I talk to all of that stuff II
it's just like having a flat tire on a
date it's how you deal with it all right
excellent
I think that's pretty good this episode
was sponsored by book hacker we did the
reading so you don't have to tip Rosanna
and
or book hacker dotnet
[Music]
thanks for listening to the mating
grounds podcast with Tucker max
[Music]



............................



hey guys welcome to the mating grounds
Q&A; where we answer real questions that
real listeners send in about their real
lives if you want us to answer one of
your questions we'd love to do it just
go to the mating grounds comm backslash
email sign up for the email list and
we'll send you the phone number where
you can leave a voicemail with your
question we'll answer it on the air put
it up on the podcast and you're welcome
to listen to it and even call back with
follow-up questions
welcome to the mating grounds podcast
hosted by Tucker max what should I do to
initiate a conversation other than just
be a normal human being
gauge feedback that's what I tell young
guys all the time
this episode is sponsored by book hacker
we do the reading so you don't have to
check us out on Amazon or book hacker
dotnet and now here's your host Tucker
max hey guys I really I love y'all's
podcast it's really it's really
insightful a lot of times because I sort
of was honestly a little bit brainwashed
by the PUA arena for a little while for
the past like year so and really it's
kind of like really opened me up to what
it really means to just be a real
confident genuine man so I appreciate
that you got on y'all's behalf so my
question was really you know I'm I'm
relatively confident and I'm pretty
social and I like to talk to people and
get to know people and everything but I
always seem to make an excuse in my own
head when it's time to get sexually
forward and I start to try to justify
not doing so with other reasons and
convince myself that that's what it
really is instead of I'm just too afraid
to do it it's honestly out of fear of
rejection I would say and I just want to
know what do I do when I'm when I'm
talking and interacting with the girl
and it's going well and and we're just
it's just playful banter back and forth
how do i how do I advance sexually how
do I turn the conversation that we're
having into a sexual conversation and
then how do I act sexually forward with
her into and make it go into a sexual
experience because I feel like that
really is my weakest point I've got a
lot of other stuff down pat really as
far as being a good person being a nice
guy having a lot to say being
interesting and being interested in
other people too
but I just want to know how to take it
sexually forward so what types of signs
should i look for in the way she behaves
to know if it's something I should do so
yeah those are those are just kind of
the questions I have cuz I mean I really
suck at that I would love to get better
at that thing alright so before we
really get started answering I just want
to say it's great that you
used to be a brainwashed pickup artist
and then you realize that basically what
they're teaching you is in helping you
and you figuring out better things and
we're helping that's fantastic
the problem is you're still the residue
of the nonsense I've taught you is still
there and so we're gonna be a little bit
hard on you in this episode dude not to
hurt you or make fun of you but to help
you okay so let me just start by saying
like listen to how you talked about you
were doing great I thought the questions
were normal like you sounded like a
normal person and then listen to how you
everything shifted at the end and you
said how do I have it how do I turn a
normal conversation into a sexual
conversation and then act sexual toward
her and then have a sexual experience
like what the fuck are you talking about
dude like you're thinking about sex
first up you're definitely still
thinking about women as objects and not
as people that you relate to and connect
with
and you're thinking about sex is like
like you're almost like thinking about
it like going to war or something like
it's this weird strange frightening
thing that you are like are
contemplating and petrified of it's like
this monster in your head I've never
heard a guy actually say how do I have a
sexual conversation and then act sexual
to order and then have a sexual
experience like you didn't even say I
think I think you didn't even say how do
I have sex with her you know you're like
how do I have a sexual experience I mean
we'll dude that this might be the core
of your problem is that you have thought
of sex as something that is some totally
different that is outside of normal
interaction that you've built it up to
be this massive thing in your head and
so clearly you're gonna freak out when
it comes down to it and you're gonna
look at it differently and I think we
need to address this part of his stuff
first do you guys agree or did you have
different takes on this doctors it was
it was fascinating to me listening to
this call because I had this impression
of a beautiful butterfly emerging from a
Chris
but that still has little bits of cocoon
kind of stuck randomly right exactly
which is the accumulated pickup artist
residue yep okay so sometimes he would
sometimes Tucker he really did talk
about women as people know early he did
yes resting and then and then other
times he kind of switches into the like
like mystery is is casting some
ventriloquism through his his beliefs
and I mean the fundamental thing which
I'm sure we'll all agree is that you can
turn the situation sexually without
turning the language and the
conversation sexual absolutely and you
do that by touch yes
connection actually which is the
opposite of everything pickup artists
teach actual genuine connection which
doesn't mean you have to fucking marry
her you know it just me it means like
I'm talking to her we're engaging were
connecting I really like her it doesn't
have to be like oh so this phase one of
escalation begins or whatever the fuck
no dude like like you should actually go
listen to I don't know which episode I
can't remember which one one of the Joe
what's that helping Joe episode where
you talk about you just leaned over and
kissed her in the middle of a
conversation you weren't thinking about
is it like 12 or 13 14 I like Joe used
to think about this the same way you did
and we finally got this idea out of his
head
that sexual escalation is something
different than interacting with a human
being right and so once once he
internalized that the next date he was
on with a girl he really liked they were
in the middle of this really great
conversation and it was kind of a pause
and she you know touched him he had
touched her there like clearly they were
into each other and he just leaned over
and kissed her and it went great and
they made out the rest of the night and
then they had a sexual experience but
the point is it's sex is not a different
thing from the rest of what you're
trying to do sex is the physical
expression of an attraction that you and
the girl mutually hold and that
attraction is based on several things
we've taught
about appearance conversation emotional
contents all those sorts of things right
it's just the inevitable conclusion of a
lot of attraction all right what do you
go ahead dr. Perla I would agree with
what Jeff was saying - it's he needs to
basically shut up and act like behavior
at this point like if you think about
the kinds of instances we have an
interaction between a man and a woman
who are interested in each other and it
might be escalating in terms of
flirtation etcetera very infrequently is
the middle stage going to be something
where they explicitly talk about sex
which then leads to sex the that's going
to happen is if you're hiring someone
for sex or it's maybe you're in a
long-term relationship and you kind of
just say like hey do you want to have
sex like let's go right
but in these you know first encounters
where you're going from just flirting
with somebody to having sex the middle
ground is not like what you guys have
been saying no explicitly talking about
sex for some people that might come
natural in the sense of like innuendo or
like little sexual jokes and things but
usually they're not explicitly related
to you about to have sex with this
person instead it's gonna be physical
things like Jeff and Tucker have already
said like touching like mimicry of you
know when I touch her - she reciprocate
when I you know share a glance with her
- she reciprocate all of those little
things like hair touching all this kind
of stuff is all like her way of telling
you it's okay you can go a little bit
further you can kiss me or you can put
your hand on my butt or whatever okay
and it's usually via that nonverbal
behavior that the escalation occurs not
like again Jeff and Tucker I've already
said not based on what you're actually
saying and it's not gonna be something
explicitly sexual right Karen Karen is
it is it fair to say most young women
are probably more comfortable having sex
than talking about sex most people might
think yeah I would say especially in
like a personal first person kind of way
yes like I think there people are
comfortable talking about sex but not
comfortable like narrating this whatever
escalation as they call it that
it's the weird part like having like the
first-person diary almost of like okay
do you want to have sex now let's talk
about sex between you and me like that's
just so weird and unnatural so it's not
gonna really be part of a normal
conversation right so all right listen
let's answer your let's take our advice
and make it as specific for you because
it's very clear that you are very
intellectual and not emotive at all and
not intuitive at all so we need to
connect your head to your heart okay so
if you if you're confident and social
you you have a no problems at all
talking to women right I think early on
in your question you actually nailed I
think what like what your real problem
is and your real problem you hid your
real problem and then you revert to pick
up artists nonsense but you said I
always have an excuse in my head like
when it's time you know to get sexual
like I my guess is you have a lot of
limiting beliefs about yourself you're
probably not as confident as you think
or at least you don't have a high self
esteem because confidence is self-esteem
or not the exact same thing which is
totally fine dude a lot of guys are like
this very normal
no problem so next time you're talking
to a girl and you like her and she likes
you right let's say you've been talking
for 30 minutes or an hour two hours
right so basic signs of attraction from
a woman dr. Perla mentioned them is she
touching you
is she reacting well when you touch her
is she looking at you a lot is she
mimicking you meaning that like if
you're leaning back she leans back you
lean forward she leans forward like is
she opened up to you physically like if
she's arms crossed legs crossed turned
away that probably means she's not into
you if she's either physically close to
you or very open when she's facing you
then that means she is into you right if
you if you have to like literally
analyze these and not under you don't
intuitively understand them then you
need to start connecting a little bit
more with your emotions and how you feel
when you're with someone because
generally speaking human brains tend to
be very good at feeling what the other
person feels if you let them right if
you overanalyze it and all actually then
it's very hard to do now let's say
you're let's say three hours into this
converse
station you're very confident this
girl's into you and you're into her
right then don't think about sex don't
think about sexual experiences god
forbid don't ever even use that word
again unless you're describing like what
hookers do with John's just like you
don't you want to say hey can I kiss you
hey do you want to go back to my plate
it's not a verbal thing dr parra luenell
did kiss her okay and I know that sounds
really weird and awkward and there will
probably be times where it's a little
bit awkward but most the time if a
girl's been talking to you for three
hours or four hours or she's at your
place and she's like clearly into you
she's waiting for you to fucking man up
and kiss her okay
then kiss her right and if you you guys
kissed for a while you liked it she
likes it right she's into it just like
you are
then just do what feels right next put
your hand somewhere on her body get it
closer to her genitals or her boobs
after a while like start taking clothes
off and then start rubbing up and down
on top of each other like that's
basically how sex works okay and the
fact that I have to explain that to you
it really kind of exemplifies what the
issue is is you are way overthinking
this and you are wait and when you
overthink you revert back to sort of
intellectualization of an act that is
inherently emotional and intuitive and
human and connective okay like we've
said before people don't connect it you
can connect intellectually right and
that's awesome but that's not why people
have sex no one's like man I want to
fuck that girl's brain no one's ever
said that you might like a girl because
of her brain a lot and I know a lot of
women of like me and dr. Miller because
of our brains but they fucked our bodies
okay use your body in or interact with
her and connect with her like a human
I'd what does that make sense when I
know what I'm saying I'm wondering if
like a 24 year old guy is gonna really
understand this though does that make
sense to you - in terms of effectively
communicating what I think we're all
saying yeah I think the key thing is
when you're with a woman on a date guys
tend to have guys tend to kind of put
their focus and their attention on the
woman and on the conversation and not
much in their own body so they're not
really paying attention to how excited
and warm and lustful and and cozy and
and how how drawn to her body is my body
pay at least 10 percent of your
attention to that and it'll help a lot
to kind of give you the cues that that
say at what point should I turn this
this successful playful banter into you
know a touch or playing with her hair
and seeing how she responds does she
lean in for the kiss or does she
withdraw the one caveat I would give to
this and something that might help get a
few of our listeners not expelled from
college is there are some colleges that
have these firm ative consent laws that
say you've got to ask before everything
you do and that means you have to insert
a sexual discussion in between courtship
and the natural escalation of sexual
intimacy who ever drafted those laws has
never had sex no fucking concept of how
human courtship works no concept or else
they intentionally want to destroy it
and keep it from happening right right
if you're at Oberlin or Reed College
this advice is not very good for you but
everywhere else are hundreds of other
places so be sure you know your your
school's policies on this and follow the
letter of the law you could get in big
trouble for the rest of us though just
lean in and kiss her yeah I mean like
dr. Perla from a woman's perspective I'm
sure you've talked to guys who probably
are just like this guy like when you
were single you met a guy and it's like
oh this guy's totally in his head like
how does that like what is that like
being on the other side of this it's
awkward for the reasons that you've
mentioned which is that there is an
expectation that this is supposed to be
driven by passion and so if this guy
isn't kissing me then I'm saying okay
well maybe he's just not into me he
doesn't really like me he's not
attracted to me so I mean obviously it's
totally okay for girls to make the first
move too and I've definitely done that
when I see a situation not progressing
and fine I'll make the first move
but it's just I don't know for me not as
exciting just as it's not as exciting
for a guy to say hey can I kiss you now
or I'm gonna kiss you or whatever like
just kiss so for the same reason which
is that it should be driven by this
emotion this passion this physical need
that I you know want to be touching you
I want to be with you like that's the
thing that's really attractive and so I
agree that like he does seem to be in
his head he seems to think it's like a
puzzle that he's putting together and
like there's one piece that he doesn't
have and it's not that that piece
doesn't exist that's how you just
connect the other two so it is like
something where he needs to maybe you
know it might even be helpful and I
think you guys have given this advice
before to watch some like romantic
comedies or some movie like where you
can actually see the progression like
you get to see a whole let's the guy in
a girl meet they have a conversation end
up having sex you can see that happen
many times and you realize that that
piece you're looking for with this sex
talk that doesn't happen it escalates
from flirting and having a great
conversation to ripping each others
clothes off and wanting to have sex so
maybe that would help yeah I feel like
these guys have this image in their head
that there's like a thing you can say or
a way to put words together we're all
the sudden the girls clothes fly off and
she lays back and spreads her legs and
then you have you put your penis in
there seriously like it sounds
ridiculous to say but I really do think
that that is sort of the weird
unconscious fantasy is that they can
unlock the female vagina without ever
having to actually emotionally connect
with women or or sort of deal with the
emotional realities of sex and I'm not
like saying that this guy consciously
wants that but that's the way he talks
as if that's sort of what he's trying to
do he's trying to find the cheat code
you know here's an example of just how
how bad and toxic sexual conversation
can be on dates if I'm on a date and I'm
really not into the woman and she asked
me about what do I do
how was your day going whatever I'll
immediately launch into oh I'm a sex
researcher and I was just analyzing
female orgasm data today and blah blah
blah and that is a guaranteed
skill if on the other hand I'm really
into her it'll be like oh I work on
consumer behavior and a little bit of
game theory and this or that and I teach
human emotions and then it's safe right
it's much more likely to end up having a
sexual experience as this guy puts it if
I never talked about my sex research
Karen do you have any similar thoughts
like when you first meet a guy like
current husband did you kind of lead
with the sexual talk or did you kind of
hold that act a little bit because he
knew it would be kind of awkward it's a
great anecdote with this which is that
when I was in Austin doing my grad
research my dissertation was on how guys
tend to overestimate how interested
women are in them and so when guys would
come up to me in the bar and I really
wasn't into it that's exactly what I
would lead with I would say I'm actually
doing research on how guys like you
overestimate how interested women like
oh that's awesome yeah but no my husband
that didn't go that way we met through a
mutual friend and we ended up talking
about shared interests Arrested
Development and art and whatever you
know just random stuff and it didn't
happen till later but I will say that
even though it didn't happen till later
that we talked about it he did tell me
that he was a little like intimidated
about it and it was kind of weird
finding out that that's what I do
research on yeah that's funny that's
hilarious well I know why clowns like
you keep failing that's amazing all
right dude the takeaway here for you is
very simple man stop thinking about like
sex as an act you do to someone stop
thinking about sex the way to get sex is
being a conversational puzzle start
thinking about women as humans that you
interaction interact with and connect
with and start thinking about sex as the
inevitable result of a great connection
with a woman right so it sounds like you
can actually have good connections with
women and if you can do that man then
having sex is actually really easy
that's the hard part making women feel
comfortable and safe with you and making
women you know being the type of guy
that women are attracted to is much
harder than going from a great
conversation is much harder to get into
a great conversation than it is to go
from a great conversation to sex right
so stop thinking about sex is some other
thing or some different thing or like
something you do to a woman and think
about it as the inevitable conclusion or
the inevitable result of a great
connection right or the height of a
great connection and then it's like oh
then in your head it's like how can I
you see a woman and you're thinking how
do I have sex with her right stop see a
woman and think how do I connect well
with her because then you're like okay I
need to get her attention I need to
start a good conversation I need to have
a great conversation I need to escalate
that conversation into intimacy touching
engaging being vulnerable and then we
need to start kissing and then we need
to find a place to have sex see I mean
that it's a little bit more complicated
than that but if you think about
connecting and not about sex then it's
much much easier to sort of go right
through the stages it makes total sense
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[Music]
thanks for listening to the mating
grounds podcast with Tucker max
[Music]



..............................



hey guys welcome to the mating grounds
Q&A; where we answer real questions that
real listeners send in about their real
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follow-up questions
welcome to the mating grounds podcast
hosted by Tucker max what should I do to
initiate a conversation other than just
be a normal human being
gauge feedback that's what I tell young
guys all the time
this episode is sponsored by book hacker
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check us out on Amazon or book hacker
dotnet and now here's your host Tucker
max hey guys I'm a 34 year old male
living in the quiet suburbs in the San
Francisco Bay Area probably not the most
ideal mating market but my question is
I've been single for about a year and a
half now and I'm running into this
repeated issue where the girls that I'm
the most into the girls that I see as
like potential monogamous partners and
getting into something serious each one
of those girls that I've met since being
single again they break up with me I
don't break up with them and quite often
they're breaking up with me in a kind of
sudden way where I don't see it coming
and where all our interaction and how
they and what they say to me and text me
and so forth is very much like that
their infamy and then suddenly they're
breaking up with me and you know
typically they won't open I can't get
them to open up about why they're
breaking up I mean which I understand is
a super like awkward situation to put
them in but I guess like I'm just
wondering like is something missing in
my long-term mate value it I'm not
seeing it coming and I consider myself
pretty socially intelligent you know I
have experience with relationships I
have slept with no dozens of women in my
life so I I don't know what's going on
but the third is making me very the
twelfth it's making me not even want to
put the energy into dating because I
feel like oh I'm just going to be
wasting my time and then getting hurt
and just a little more background all of
my dating these days is pretty much
through the internet at being 34 all my
friends are getting married and having
kids I'm not meeting people to date
through social circles anymore I also
live in the quiet suburbs and there just
isn't much of a dating market out here
that's going to occur organically I'm
careful looking some of your past
podcast you guys would say well you
should go out and you know do
volunteering to to
activities do meetup or return stuff I
have to myself out there with those kind
of things but I'm not finding that I'm
meeting and you that I'm really like a
want to be friends with or be like
attractive women like whatsoever
basically so yeah just being 34 I feel
like it's kind of I'm in a tough
situation and just going forward I'm
feeling kind of depressed and down about
things and yeah just wondering what kind
of advice you can give me other than
needing to go see your therapist
all right guys thanks appreciate it all
right so before we get into the specific
answer as a general rule I just want to
say this for all guys listen when you
see a pattern in your life
something happens over and over and over
again
the vast majority of the time it's
because of you and not because of other
people right or something about what
you're doing is creating that pattern
right so Karen why don't you talk for a
little bit what do you think is going on
here with this guy like he so he has
beats women he likes and then they break
up with him very suddenly and that's his
pattern yeah I would say without knowing
more information I'd say there's a few
things that could be going on so one
could be he's aiming too high so he's
trying to go out with girls who's mate
value is higher than him and he keeps
doing this and then when the girls
realized that their mate values too high
then they leave so that could be
something that's going on another thing
that might be happening is he might be
and I don't know if this is the case but
if he's using an online dating his the
way he's presenting himself online might
not match how he's presenting himself in
real life and so women might be
interested at the beginning because they
think he is reflecting whatever it is on
his profile and then in real life maybe
the way that he actually talks to them
and interacts with them isn't what they
were expecting and so then that's why
they suddenly say okay this isn't
working or it could be that he if he
really is looking to settle down right
now that might you know depending on how
he does this it might come off
desperate or like you know he really
wants to commit really early and women
are kind of turned off depending on how
early that is so all of those are things
that could be going on some of them are
easier to diagnose than others like the
you know does your dating profile match
real life ask your friends find a couple
friends you know who would be willing to
look at your dating profile and say is
this really me or not like what could I
do to make this more accurate if that's
what's going on if it's that he's aiming
to ha again given some of the things he
said about how it's really hard to me
and via the you know kind of experiences
and volunteering and stuff like that
that he does he doesn't find women who
are particularly interesting or
particularly attractive that you know it
might just be that he's aiming for you
know a higher mate value area than what
he is you know currently in and so that
could either be fixed by lowering
standards a bit okay or increasing your
own mate value to match what you're
looking for so those are you know but I
mean 34 years old hold like don't be
depressed about this like there's lots
of fish in the sea once you figure out
what the discrepancy is there's you know
and especially given that you want to
settle down you're gonna have a huge age
range of women a large pool of women who
are gonna be interested you know once
you can sort out what this discrepancy
is what do you think good is going on
dr. moon it's really hard to tell
there's not a whole lot of information
available to judge this I mean I'm
struck that he thinks 34 is over the
hill to me well he must my god I would
pay so much money to be 34 right I bet
he works in startups so he's around like
23 year olds all the time he feels old
or something yeah maybe but it's you
know objectively its peak mate value and
it means you could potentially date
almost anybody from early 20s to to late
30s if your catchment areas is huge so
he should be doing really well
particularly because he says he's he
slept with dozens of women so apparently
he's got some kind of charm or charisma
or game Karen I was curious like when
you've broken up with guys and you just
sort of do it suddenly and possibly left
them wondering
what kinds of patterns or concerns tend
to prompt that versus what what would
you tend to do if you could identify a
reason that you could give a guy rather
than just doing a Houdini and vanishing
yes so given his description of what's
going on it doesn't sound like he's
doing anything major he's not cheating
on them or like you know doing something
cuz that would be something a woman
could easily point to and say here's why
I'm breaking up with you
so it doesn't sound like it's something
like that it sounds like it's more
growing apart or just kind of like
realizing that the person you thought
you were with isn't you know actually
what's you know come to fruition in this
relationship so for me in the past like
breaking up with somebody and not having
a very good reason is usually because
there's a reason but I don't necessarily
want to tell him what it is because it
might be really insulting so it might be
something about him that I have just
grown to detest now or you know is
contemptible to me but that's not
necessarily something bad in general it
might just be something that I don't
particularly want like for example he
doesn't have enough ambition or
something it's mean to tell someone I'm
breaking with you because you don't have
enough ambition but depending on when in
the relationship that occurs and so if
it's something like that where you're
like well somebody else might like that
then there's no reason to like rub their
face in it if you've decided this is not
for me so it could be something like
that where it's a character you know an
aspect of your character this may be
just something that's not very
attractive - in this case several women
who are looking for long-term ating but
yeah if it's if it's something that
happens suddenly and there's no good
reason that she can give you then it
seems to me it's probably something
along the lines if she doesn't want to
tell you why or it's something like
characterological where she feels like
it's it's gonna hurt your feelings and
it's not something necessarily that you
did I'm action wise right so I think
this ties back to what I was saying at
the beginning the answer I think lies in
two areas either this guy is
unconsciously or unknowingly attracted
to the type of women who are gonna dump
him quickly for some reason like I
listen I've dealt with women before that
I kind of liked and we're like oh my god
I'm getting close to
I'm gonna dump them and it was like
what's going on but if you keep picking
those women unconsciously for some
reason then you could you might feel
like what's wrong with me but you're
picking the same type of woman over and
over right or the other the other way
this could be sort of a pattern but he
doesn't realize it is exactly what dr.
peridot just said this dude might have
something so clearly wrong with him and
so clearly unattractive but not obvious
it's like one of those things that you
kind of have to get to know somebody a
little bit and it's like oh wow I I'm
trying to think of like what's one of
those things that like women are just
uniformly turned out like having sex
with your socks on or something I mean
that that's a small thing but that's one
of those things that like every woman it
seems like hates even not even like a
butch woman who know each other it's
like all around the country every woman
hates this you know or you say moist a
lot or something like that fucking word
drives women crazy for some reason it's
not those but it's something that
actually it's like that that actually
matters you need to either ask yourself
are these women all very similar and if
they are they you need to think am i
going after the the unconsciously the
same type of woman which is gonna get
you the same result or are these women
very different and if they are then ask
yourself you need to find someone or
some way to objectively evaluate
yourself because my guess is there's
something relatively small I mean you
don't see it but it's big enough that
it's creating sort of the same response
from lots of different women would you
oh you know it might not be that big a
deal I mean the fact that multiple women
are all breaking up with him about maybe
maybe the same issue doesn't necessarily
mean it's a big issue that it's that
it's all genetic that it's hard to solve
it might just be he fails to trim his
nose hair right maybe he's got bad
breath because he doesn't use a tongue
scraper it might be there's just
something weird about how he has sex
right it that like could literally be
fixed in five minutes if he got good
feedback so I think it's important for
this guy to get the most honest feedback
you can from female friends relatives
god
friends just to say I'm baffled what
could I be doing you guys have a free
pass to tell me anything you think might
be wrong why did he go on and on about
the meaning market like that was unusual
- I didn't understand how that side in
it it could be that all of his
girlfriend's get really sick of
commuting to the quote quiet suburbs
yeah the Bay Area yeah that might be it
right well there's like a joke in I
lived in New York in Manhattan for two
years and like the first two months I
lived there I stayed with my buddy in
Jersey City New Jersey which is
literally directly across the water and
you can take the PATH train and it's
like closer than if you lived on the
Upper East Side to sort of downtown and
Greenwich right I cannot tell you I
cannot tell you how many women I met
like my first two months who were like
totally into me like oh yeah let's go
back to your place and it's like wait
like where are we going I'm like the
past right like oh my god you live in
Jersey
like I like and they seriously left like
now I'm not doing that
it's the path train is a cosmic worm
right but seriously like they'll catch
the Jersey disease or something that
happened a bunch actually it was really
shocking to me but and it might not be
just location it could also be his house
so that's something to think about too
so you know short-term mating that might
not be a big deal but for long-term
mating bringing women home to your house
over and over and I'm seeing it if it's
in disarray or if it's giving off this
bachelor pad kind of thing or I don't
know there might be something going on
with how you're presenting yourself via
where you live so that could be another
thing that again like dr. Miller was
saying you can ask good friends - you
got a free pass tell me what can I fix
not only on myself but also on these
other ways that I'm presenting myself
are my house I'm convinced I I lost I
lost a girlfriend in grad school simply
because my aquarium had too much algae
in it
and she thought that was too dumb a
reason to break up with me but I'm sure
she found it totally disgusting and I
never fixed it and I never knew what
went wrong yeah yeah so by the way dr.
pear would confirm or deny this women
will absolutely make dating and sex and
decisions based on things that seem
totally inconsequential and beyond our
below like the level of noticing for
guys like things like that oh absolutely
I think yeah I think that women find
some of those things like the algae in
the aquarium or you know the laundry
that piles up and never gets done or
whatever is like signs like in and of
themselves they're not a big deal which
is why guys don't think of them as a big
deal but for women they're always
looking maybe not always but a long-term
relationship they're always looking for
like what's this gonna turn into in the
long term is this gonna be something
where I'm gonna have to take care of
this is this guy responsible blah blah
blah and so it's kind of like answering
a bunch of more important questions with
these little cues and so absolutely
looking at the state of cleanliness of
an apartment house the kind of what
artwork you have on the walls or lack
thereof like all of those are little
signs that women are right kind of you
know mentally tabulating and ask women
if you need feedback on that don't think
don't try and figure it out yourself
like like like all of our helping Joe
episodes are a great example Joe's a
very intelligent dude and totally
clueless like never would have figured
out the things that were wrong with him
on his own he had to have someone else
point them out like either a guys who
know what they're talking about our
women so if you don't see them it's fine
guys like we all have things about
ourselves we don't see and if you have
good friends they help you correct them
if you don't you got to find someone who
can and you know this guy can get some
information about a what point in the
escalation of courtship and sex and
intimacy did these women break up with
him if it was consistently after the
first dinner date maybe it's something
about how he eats or orders wine or
whatever if it's consistently after the
first time they have sex it's more to do
with sex if it's after the first time
she sees his apartment and the algae and
thinks if he can't even take care of
neon tetras how could he take care of a
baby right then that's more likely to be
the issue so you can do a little bit of
sleuthing yeah to try to figure out
where is is the bottleneck
yep this episode was sponsored by book
hacker we do the reading so you don't
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thanks for listening to the mating
grounds podcast with Tucker max
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