Ozymo - Today at 1:31 AM
See, I respect your decision, mostly, but I am a little miffed that you have no trouble kissing me or Shivvy, and much more, yet felt the need to make that choice. You big softie.
pokes your chest forcefully
Not to mention the fact that you apparently haven't told her about us.
Higgins - Today at 1:37 AM
With you and Shivvy, I had already had already shared a certain amount of intimacy with the two of you individually.

With you and me, it's just you and me. I make the decisions for myself, and I weigh what those decisions can mean for me, while you do the same. Same for me and Shivvy. When there's more people, things change. Things change, and the way I think changes.

Especially in a situation where I feel like I'm being pressured. When I feel like the "expected" thing to do is for me to say "yes," when I don't know if that's the answer that works for me.

The bulk of it was that. The pressure of a situation where there are a significant amount of people more than just me and another person. Another part of it was mixed signals from Spinach. I didn't know how she felt about it. I didn't know what her response meant. That created even more anxieties, and a ton of other things I started worrying about.
I really appreciate that you expressed respect for my decision like that.
And, I didn't tell Spinach everything. I told her a lot about what had been going on with you, Shivvy, and Alex. I told her about how you two are very close to me, like family. I told her about how part of why we grew closer was related to fulfilling your desire of being percieved as a girl, back when you were in denial about being trans.
It's something that I'm very proud of.
Ozymo - Today at 1:45 AM
That's not exactly the problem I had with it, though if it wasn't clear to you what Spinach wanted I suppose it's less miffing. Though it didn't seem all that vague to me. And, really, a lot of that is far from what you need to tell her about us.
pokes again
Rule of thumb, whatever you feel the least comfortable talking about is what you most need to talk about.
Higgins - Today at 1:50 AM
I'm trying to understand more of your feelings of being miffed, and I think I understand them. My decision could show some sense of inequality, or disparity, right?
I was trying to show you that my reasons might not be what you thought they were.
Ozymo - Today at 1:59 AM
To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure why she needed to hear about my gender situation or Shivvy's relationship issues . . . I can't honestly remember whether I've told you about that sort of personal stuff so I'm not sure of whether I can even complain . . .

And, really, part of my issue is that there was even much doubt to it. Maybe I'm being unreasonable, but after you, Shivvy and myself doing so much stuff while you've been with Spinach, and with what was going on just now . . . It's not just that I expected it, I'm surprised you hadn't already thought about it and come to a decision, one that resolved that inequality.
pokes again
Ozymo - Today at 2:01 AM
You can tell I'm kinda miffed because I don't even feel smol right now.
Higgins - Today at 2:01 AM
You're more than kinda miffed.
Ozymo - Today at 2:01 AM
You might be right.
I'm sorry if it feels like I'm pressuring you into letting Shivvy and Spinach make out, I hope you understand that's not why I'm miffed.
Higgins - Today at 2:02 AM
Well, first off I want to say it does make me feel better that you're talking to me about this so honestly.
Ozymo - Today at 2:03 AM
You're a big sensitive softy, but if there's one thing I know you can take and want to maintain is honest communication between us.
Higgins - Today at 2:10 AM
When things started in the chat, I was already in the side session with Jolly. That seemed important at the time, and I was putting most of my thought into focusing on that. I don't do well at all switching between multiple things. I'm a bad multi-tasker, and both things that were going on were kinds of things that I can't split attention with. I think that's when anxieties started. Thinking about it is difficult to organize, and feels really, really swirly.

I think I was fine until Spinach said something that I couldn't interpret. I didn't know what she wanted or how she felt about it all, and that created more thoughts, worries, and anxieties centered around decision making and feeling like I was being pressured. It didn't help that apparently things were wrapping up at work and Spinach wasn't able to get back to me on her thoughts at that moment.

But, you're bothered because it was an issue at all, because I hadn't already spoken to Spinach about it, and already got her opinion on it all, and gauged how she'd feel about it all.
And the fact that I hadn't already sorted all of that out.
Right?
Ozymo - Today at 2:11 AM
Mostly, yeah.
Higgins - Today at 2:15 AM
Well, I you have a right to be bothered by it.

My explanation won't be great, unfortunately. Honestly, thinking on it, I think it's because I just never feel like I have enough time with Spinach.

It feels like life is constantly demanding different things of her, like she's always having to make dinners or lunches for her family, always busy at work, or voluntering at university, or dealing with her brother's tantrums, or sick, ot dealing with something else that comes up, that I always just want to spend time with her when she's actually there and it seems like things aren't being interrupted.
I don't think that's a good excuse, though.
You and Shivvy are important to me, too.
And I should have prioritized having more forthought instead of just being caught up in whatever moment I could get.
Ozymo - Today at 2:17 AM
pokes again
You're cut off, mister.
Higgins - Today at 2:20 AM
I can barely organize my thoughts right now, Oz.
Ozymo - Today at 2:23 AM
That's fine, you'll have plenty of time to organize your thoughs, nii-chan. Nothing lewd, or even lip kisses from me or Shivvy until you've spoken to Spinach about things. I'm not telling you to do it any time soon, I'm just making things fair.
Mmm, definitely more than kinda miffed, I guess.
Higgins - Today at 2:24 AM
Yeah, you're super upset.
I'm really upset, too.
Only 30% of that is at you.
Until you kept poking me, I was mostly just upset.
The situation is super overwhelming, and I care more about my standing with you, and how much you respect me, and how close you are with me than I do about kisses or lewds.
I'm sorry that I didn't tell Spinach.
Ozymo - Today at 2:30 AM
It's not meant as a punishment or anything, just making things a little more equal since you haven't managed that. I'm sorry I'm making the whole thing more upseting, but I've got feelings too, which I'm selfishly following.
This shouldn't have come to a head this way. I'm sorry it did.
Higgins - Today at 2:31 AM
You have feelings, too, and there wasn't really a way to aptly express them except for it to get to this point.
It was the right thing to do.
Ozymo - Today at 2:33 AM
I mean this whole thing between the four of us. I should have confronted you about this before.
Higgins - Today at 2:34 AM
Ozymo - 05/27/2017
Wow, I'm frankly surprised you haven't told her. I thought she said something about ERPing being alright since you're fulfilling your needs.
Higgins - 05/27/2017
Yes
I remember that
This felt different
Because there's an emotional connection I have with both of you.
Ozymo - 05/27/2017
Mmmm, also, telling her what, exactly, though, be clearer.
Higgins - 05/27/2017
That's part of it as, well.
I don't know exactly what.
Maybe telling her that I have such a close relationship with the both of you?
That we first person ERP?
That we care very much for eachother?
Ozymo - 05/27/2017
I was about to say you should tell her we're like siblings. But first person ERP isn't exactly a sibling activity by most standards.
Also, what I was "asking" about was mostly whether you think Spinach would be weirded out by Shivvy's fetish of being used in public.
Ozymo - Today at 2:35 AM
I did remember mentioning it, that wasn't quite confronting you, though. I could've been firmer.
Higgins - Today at 2:38 AM
Like I said, I was selfish.
It's not right for me to treat you and Shivvy this way, after all we've been through.
Ozymo - Today at 2:40 AM
It's not. I'm getting increasingly sick and tired of feeling like somebody's secret side bitch or some shit. It keeps happening and I'm not a fan.
Higgins - Today at 2:43 AM
It makes me sick that I made you feel that way.
Ozymo - Today at 2:44 AM
I'm way more upset about this than I thought. I'm sorry I'm being so . . . Bleh.
Higgins - Today at 2:44 AM
Don't say sorry.
I'm trying to figure out how to say something to you.
We were flirting and being lewd with eachother before I met Spinach.
And after I met her, I felt unsure about those interactions with you. But I liked feeling close to you, and I was afraid of pushing you away from me.
Ozymo - Today at 2:50 AM
That's not fair. To anybody.
Higgins - Today at 2:53 AM
It also didn't feel fair to tell you that we couldn't be like that with each other, now that I'd met her.
Both felt so insincere and ingenuine.
I like what I have with you. And I'm really afraid that you're going to tell me that I should start revising that statement into the past tense.
But I made you feel something awful.
I don't want you to feel that again.
Ozymo - Today at 2:59 AM
At least it would have been fair to her. And that should be your priority. Isn't she so much more special? You may have met me first, but isn't she your most special person?
Higgins - Today at 3:00 AM
She is. At the time I was justifying my lack of action with implied consent from her. But I knew she still would have wanted to know, and I didn't tell her.
Ozymo - Today at 3:06 AM
I'm super upset. I kept saying I couldn't imagine you disappointing me, but I am. And the worst part is I could've complained a lot earlier and I probably wouldn't have felt this way.
Higgins - Today at 3:09 AM
I don't know what to say. I'm not overwhelmed or upset anymore. I just feel sad and empty because I think I've lost you.
Ozymo - Today at 3:11 AM
hugs tight and kisses your cheek
I love you, nii-chan. I'm sorry it took so long for me to reassure you, I needed to get the bad out of my system.
Higgins - Today at 3:14 AM
I care about you so much, Oz. I started typing out "I love you," and for some reason it didn't feel right. The times before I said it to you, it felt natural, but I don't think I deserve to say that to you right now.
Please don't apologize to me.
You were very genuine, and you upheld the things I claimed to be my values better than I did.
It's really late.
I'd like to wake up earlier to talk more.
Ozymo - Today at 3:16 AM
It's extremely late.
Higgins - Today at 3:17 AM
If you want to.
Ozymo - Today at 3:17 AM
What time?
Higgins - Today at 3:17 AM
I can be up by 2PM my time.
Ozymo - Today at 3:18 AM
I'd like that.
Higgins - Today at 3:18 AM
Me, too.
Goodnight, Oz. Get some good rest.
Ozymo - Today at 3:20 AM
There's no way I will, sun will probably be up in about an hour, no AC, room gets really bright during the day, it's gonna be awful.
Good night either way, I hope the rest of yours is nice.
Higgins - Today at 3:23 AM
Talk more really soon.
Higgins - Today at 2:20 PM
Are you there?
I'm here, if you want to talk before the game. I didn't think I'd sleep past the first alarm like that
Ozymo - Today at 2:39 PM
Sorry, I had to take out the trash/do the dishes/water the plants.
Higgins - Today at 2:40 PM
It's alright.
Ozymo - Today at 2:40 PM
kisses your cheek and massages your scalp
How are you feeling, nii-chan?
Higgins - Today at 2:42 PM
I don't feel good. I didn't feel good during the drive home, and I realize it was more than just the sleep deprivation.
How are you feeling?
Ozymo - Today at 2:43 PM
Neutral? I think I'm a solid neutral.
Higgins - Today at 2:46 PM
How different are things going to be between us?
Ozymo - Today at 2:47 PM
You're cut off from inappropriate activities until things are cleared up, then it depends on what Spinach thinks. Though if my assumptions are correct, not too much should change.
Or maybe it'll just be better because we finally had something seriously bad and are able to get past it. Something about what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Higgins - Today at 2:53 PM
Hopefully the latter. It's not good to think about things being any kind of bad-different.
Being cut off in that regard doesn't matter as much as what it represents. Those things are nice because they mean that we're close and feel comfortable enough to be like that with eachother without worrying.
Ozymo - Today at 2:56 PM
I still feel close enough to you to be that way, it just isn't fair for the time being.
Higgins - Today at 2:59 PM
I hope we'll be able to move past it. It feels like I fucked up in a way that never truly goes away.
I told her last night. Give me a second and I'll send you the log; I sent her our log(edited)
Higgins - Today at 3:16 PM
chatlogspinach.txt
6.39 KB
It reads very pathetically on my side. Fair warning.
There are some inaccuracies because I couldn't organize everything.
The times I have said "I love you," to you and Shivvy felt good and fine, for instance.
It didn't feel good last night to say. It seemed like you had been subjected to too much disappointment.
Ozymo - Today at 3:29 PM
rubs my forehead
See, that's about what I expected, you big worrywart. Everything was fine until you started worrying about it not being fine.
sighs and hugs, leaning most of my weight against you
Higgins - Today at 3:36 PM
runs a hand through your hair and massages your scalp

I'm not sure if I've communicated how mentally distracting and disorienting everything happening in that moment was. Maybe I wouldn't have worried as much if I wasn't trying to focus on the scene and wasn't already in a somewhat agitated state.

The wording was extremely alarming, if you've seen some of the other conversations Spinach and I have had.

Either way, everything would have been fine if I wasn't lazy and just talked to her about all of this before.
I love you, Oz.
Ozymo - Today at 3:40 PM
buries my face in your chest, making your shirt just a little moist and squeezes you as tight as I can
I love you too, nii-chan. You dummy.
Higgins - Today at 3:42 PM
cradles and squeezes you close, both arms refusing to let you budge away

I'm sorry. I'm really sorry I made you feel those horrible things.
Ozymo - Today at 3:58 PM
I'm sorry, but I need to adress something that might make you want to apologize some more.
Higgins - Today at 3:59 PM
Okay
Ozymo - Today at 4:00 PM
Ozymo - Today at 1:59 AM
To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure why she needed to hear about my gender situation or Shivvy's relationship issues . . . I can't honestly remember whether I've told you about that sort of personal stuff so I'm not sure of whether I can even complain . . .
I understand you not responding to that in the moment, but . . .
And, like, I know I haven't asked you to keep my gender issues a secret but . . . I guess I assumed there was some implication of that being really personal.(edited)
Higgins - Today at 4:04 PM
At the time I felt like both of those things were important for establishing context. When I brought both of those things up, they were specifically meant to lead into explaining my relationship with both of you.
I specifically hadn't brought any of it up with her to a certain point, even though I share everything with her.
Specifically, I only brought those things up when you mentioned...
Ozymo - 05/27/2017
I was about to say you should tell her we're like siblings. But first person ERP isn't exactly a sibling activity by most standards.
Also, what I was "asking" about was mostly whether you think Spinach would be weirded out by Shivvy's fetish of being used in public.
I still wasn't sure what to tell her, so I started going with "everything."
Ozymo - Today at 4:14 PM
I thought we were close before then. I didn't know you couldn't tell other people we're close without mentioning I have gender issues. Like, I understand sharing everything about yourself with your most special person, but . . . I don't really feel like that was yours to share without asking. I don't even know why I'm aware of her being trans.
Higgins - Today at 4:21 PM
We were close before then. I'm not saying I was right; I wasn't. But at the time I felt it was directly connected to the history of how we grew closer, especially in that sexual context.
I really should have asked you first.

After we talk about this, I think I'm kind of bothered by something, as well.
Ozymo - Today at 4:22 PM
You can tell me what's bothering you now, let's get everything out now so it doesn't have any more time to fester.
Higgins - Today at 4:24 PM
Like, I'm trying to balance this with the fact that it's such a huge thing for you, and in general. It's extremely personal, and it wasn't something that was for me to tell, and it wasnt for something for me to tell without asking.
I just feel really frustrated because I didn't say anything about it it and didn't have a mind to say anything about it until different things that you mentioned. And I feel a sense of disparity that I can't properly explain
I'm trying right now
It's like... It was expected of me to know what to explain to her, but also what to omit or ask permission for, first, when everything is so connected.
There's just frustration, and I recognize that I did something wrong, and I violated your privacy, and I compromised the integrity of our trust.
But there's also frustration from struggling to explain something about the situation that doesn't seem fair.
Ozymo - Today at 4:34 PM
It sounds a little bit like you're saying it's my fault you told her. Or that I should have told you what to say to her? Or that, because it was a part of something that you were supposed to tell her, you shouldn't get in trouble for it. Or that I shouldn't have expected you'd keep that private and should have explicitly told you not to say it. Or maybe that after I made a partial suggestion that you didn't really respond to I should have told you to discuss what to tell her with me.
Higgins - Today at 4:48 PM
None of these sound fully right. I'll try to reapond to each one.

"Your fault I told you." Not exactly trying to justify my actions or hand out blame. But, the only reason I brang it up with her was as a response to that conversation with you. Not that it was well thought out on my part.

"I should have told you what to say to her." Not exactly. It's more like, because of what we got upset about last night, it feels like it lines up that you should have told me what not to say when I think of everything we talked about last night.

"Because it was a part of something that you were supposed to tell her, you shouldn't get in trouble." You deserve to be upset with me for sharing your personal information with her. It felt like your gender identity was a part of what I was supposed to tell her, and it felt like what was going on with Shivvy was what I was supposed to tell her. I was wrong because I should have asked because I wasn't sure. So you should be upset with me.
I think it boils down to, last night, providing of information of me was expected, even if everything expected wasn't explicit. Given the context, I agree, I should have explained the three of us to Spinach.

And now it feels like withholding of information was also expected, and that was also not explicit.
Even though that withholding of information is very clear in the context that came before.
Which is why I never brought up discussions of your gender identity or what was happening with Shivvy and Alex in the first place.
Ozymo - Today at 4:55 PM
So it's furstrating that both were implicitly expected of you, even though you don't have a problem with either one on their own.
Higgins - Today at 4:55 PM
Yes. Even though I tried to do both of them on my own.
Ozymo - Today at 4:56 PM
So I set my expectations too high and should bring them down to more realistic levels.
I should realize you're not my superhero of a nii-chan who can do anything I expect, or something.
Higgins - Today at 5:00 PM
That sounds... Really leading and still just unfair.

But I guess that's what it comes down to. Maybe contrasting things were expected  of me.(edited)
A 0, huh?
I'd say you're right, then.
Ozymo - Today at 5:04 PM
I'm sorry. I think I default to being unfair in one direction or another
At least when I'm not in a good mood.
Higgins - Today at 5:12 PM
I guess for now then there's no other way to say it.
I'm frustrated because your expectations of me were too high, and I disappointed you again.
Ozymo - Today at 5:13 PM
And in basically the opposite way.
Higgins - Today at 5:13 PM
Yes.
Ozymo - Today at 5:15 PM
sighs and nuzzles your chest
We'll get past it.
Higgins - Today at 5:22 PM
strokes the back of your head

I'm going to try to not sound so bitter about this, and try not to be reductionist about everything before this point. I care a lot about you, and maybe I didn't realize how much until last night.

But until we work things out better, I'm not going to tell anyone about anything about you, unless you tell me to. I guess I really am dumb and clumsy like people probably think I am.

You're not a secret I try to keep from anyone. But for now I just don't want to disappoint you anymore.(edited)
I wasn't thinking about anything in specific when I told you that I could disappoint you, but I knew I eventually would.
Ozymo - Today at 5:31 PM
I feel like I'm out of things to say . . . Like I have a limited word resources and it's basically empty . . .
Higgins - Today at 5:32 PM
I'm okay with just spending some time with you. You don't have to say anything.
It's really hot right now and I'm just kind of... Sitting here.
I want to keep Shivvy up to date on everything going on.
If it ever makes sense, may I share our log with her?


Ozymo - Today at 5:34 PM
lightly taps and scratches and pokes your chest while restingmy head on it sideways
Mmmm, it's pretty hot here too . . . I don't think I'm getting my AC fixed until tomorrow either.
Yeah, everything we've discussed since last night is fine for her eyes.